Bantam A teams losing their top players to the High School?

D6Rocks · Post by **D6Rocks** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:28 pm

How are the Apple Valley boys doing, are they going up north for the last tryout, or are they done?

hockeyjunkie2 · Post by **hockeyjunkie2** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:35 pm

D6Rocks wrote:How are the Apple Valley boys doing, are they going up north for the last tryout, or are they done?

I know 2 days ago they were all going to be up in Moorhead. I'm not sure if that's still true after the last 2 days of practice or not. I did hear they had a good scrimmage against Mayo though.

northwoods oldtimer · Post by **northwoods oldtimer** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:08 pm

I hear ya conditioningsucks and for every action there is indeed a reaction. It is commonly stated by many a folk that "what I do is my own business" Well what is more important is what you do impacts many folks around you in a corporate setting such as sports which is but a stepping stone to the adult world.

PanthersIn2011 · Post by **PanthersIn2011** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:28 pm

conditioningsucks wrote:Shame on the high school coaches and shame on parents/players that abuse youth hockey programs and leave them scrambling and in shambles after they make a selfish decision.

In my opinion, the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the players & parents. If they don't act this way, there is no issue here. (In a similar discussion on the HS bored, someone tried to pin this on Minnesota Hockey because of the age cutoffs .... I found that amusing).

The decision to play HS versus Bantams should be made prior to Bantam tryouts. Pick a course and stick with it. If playing JV hockey is somehow unacceptable, then stay in bantams.

hockeyjunkie2 · Post by **hockeyjunkie2** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:45 pm

hockeyjunkie2 wrote:
D6Rocks wrote:How are the Apple Valley boys doing, are they going up north for the last tryout, or are they done?
I know 2 days ago they were all going to be up in Moorhead. I'm not sure if that's still true after the last 2 days of practice or not. I did hear they had a good scrimmage against Mayo though.

Only 2 of the players will be going up north I found out today. The rest will be returning to the Bantam A team. AJ Michealson and Derrek Smith are the 2 that are going to the scrimmages. Congrats to them and good luck this season!

gopher1 · Post by **gopher1** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:54 pm

Lakeville North BA lost a couple to varsity. Nate Arnetz and Brady Skjei, both are very skilled and should help. Good Luck to both of them!!!!

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:51 pm

To assume freshman are "going to help" is risky at best, yes of all the 9th graders on varsity rosters a few will help. A much greater number will mostly just survive. The pace and physical nature of varsity hockey will test most to their limit. Remember most of these kids never played up even one year much less three. Its a great opportunity for those that can handle it but lets not expect to much of them. I've watched a number of bantams this fall that have chosen HS over their bantam teams and few even stood out at the bantam level. Good...yes, varsity ready?????

CoachJ · Post by **CoachJ** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:31 pm

PanthersIn2011 wrote:
conditioningsucks wrote:Shame on the high school coaches and shame on parents/players that abuse youth hockey programs and leave them scrambling and in shambles after they make a selfish decision.
In my opinion, the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the players & parents. If they don't act this way, there is no issue here. (In a similar discussion on the HS bored, someone tried to pin this on Minnesota Hockey because of the age cutoffs .... I found that amusing).

The decision to play HS versus Bantams should be made prior to Bantam tryouts. Pick a course and stick with it. If playing JV hockey is somehow unacceptable, then stay in bantams.

On one post we have someone saying High school hockey and youth hockey have nothing to do with one another. It looks like North St.paul is saying that by taking 5 players off Bantam A.

On another post you have JRMOM who's kid is a 10th grader and isn't given the option to play JV and looks forced to stay at bantams. What if this kid made Varsity is he sticking it to his association. No he is doing what he is suppose to do. Should he not tryout for Bantams thinking he is a lock for JV or Varsity. What if he isn't chosen then he has to play u16.

Associations hold tryouts as early as sept 14th. The leagues don't start till Nov 2-10. Tryouts are around Nov 17. Associations should hold bubble kids until after tryouts. If they think a kid has a chance to make varsity or JV then they should make sure they are covering all bases.

If you had a chance to make more money at a different job and you told your company I might have to leave and they say no you can't, we don't have anyone to replace you. Are you screwing your old company if you leave or are you only being selfish. I don't see how you can blame parents. Unless you can prove to me a High school coach told these kids before tryouts they made the team. Knowing a few H.S coaches I don't see that happening. I DON'T THINK THIS IS AS CLEAR AS YOU MAKE THIS OUT TO BE.

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:51 pm

Agreed coachj, the A.V. situation is a possible exception to that thinking, the 2 bantams who chose not to tryout had a pretty good idea what was going to happen at tryouts. Their situation was being discussed a year ago and its my understanding the HS coach was involved. I can't blame a kid or his family for covering the bases, If your not assured of a spot on varsity it only makes sense that you at least tryout for bantams. No doubt this causes heartache for some bantam teams but if the disgruntled parents were to put themselves in the position these kids are facing I think they'd see thinks differently. If you leave bantams to play JV its not likely a hockey decision as much as schedule or finacial considerations. JV is not a great place to develop young players.

flatontheice · Post by **flatontheice** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:17 pm

keepyourheadup wrote:Agreed coachj, the A.V. situation is a possible exception to that thinking, the 2 bantams who chose not to tryout had a pretty good idea what was going to happen at tryouts. Their situation was being discussed a year ago and its my understanding the HS coach was involved. I can't blame a kid or his family for covering the bases, If your not assured of a spot on varsity it only makes sense that you at least tryout for bantams. No doubt this causes heartache for some bantam teams but if the disgruntled parents were to put themselves in the position these kids are facing I think they'd see thinks differently. If you leave bantams to play JV its not likely a hockey decision as much as schedule or finacial considerations. JV is not a great place to develop young players.

Not true. It all depends on the coaching. You cant assume that every Bantam program has good coaching. Many dont and it can be a lost year for a player.

iwearmysunglassesatnight · Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:36 pm

[quote="keepyourheadup"]Agreed coachj, the A.V. situation is a possible exception to that thinking, the 2 bantams who chose not to tryout had a pretty good idea what was going to happen at tryouts. Their situation was being discussed a year ago and its my understanding the HS coach was involved. I can't blame a kid or his family for covering the bases, If your not assured of a spot on varsity it only makes sense that you at least tryout for bantams. No doubt this causes heartache for some bantam teams but if the disgruntled parents were to put themselves in the position these kids are facing I think they'd see thinks differently. If you leave bantams to play JV its not likely a hockey decision as much as schedule or finacial considerations. JV is not a great place to develop young players.[/quote]

Sounds like if the two kids knew they would make Varsity that not trying out for Bantams helped remove most of the problems others have pointed out, regarding a player being on a bantam team for a short while then leaving.. These kids never left the bantam team... They appeared to have not signed up to participate in bantams.

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:02 am

I agree a bad coach could hinder development and create a "lost year", but the same can be said for jumping to HS before you're ready...a lost year. Its easy to paint this situation with a broad brush but that just doesn't work, each situation is unique. Hopefully parents of the players involved can take a realistic view of there sons talent and help guide them to the best decision. My choice is to just let them have fun with their friends in bantams and if they have the goods it won't really matter. I look at it this way..if there is a doubt about making varsity they likely belong in bantams.

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:04 am

What if the high school coaching stinks?

Forgot to mention this in the previos post!

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:15 pm

I don't think the trouble lies with birthdates it lies with how early youth hockey starts and ends. The season, tryouts at least, start in mid September and district tournaments are in mid February. Why not push youth hockey back til November? Ending the season so early makes no sense, you can't play baseball on March 1, heck usually not even on April 1 and besides that when did youth hockey ever care about infringing on another sport season? Not in at least 20 years.

High school hockey started a week later than usual this season and most schools have a 2-3 tryout at the longest and those are consecutive days, not spread out over a couple of weekends. Youth hockey gets what it deserves if kids leave, you can't blame the kids or even the parents. It seems youth hockey associations in many places are becoming more and more adversarial with their high schools which hurts both.

BlackTape · Post by **BlackTape** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:31 pm

Here is a solution to the problem. The youth programs must collect the full years fees in advance prior to the youth Bantam season starting. If the skater registers and plays youth hockey and then leaves for HS, then the parents forfeit all the money they have paid for the season. This will end the problem of using the youth program as "spring training", and will help the associations collect their money early.

gerryodrowski · Post by **gerryodrowski** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:39 am

Doglover wrote:Not really such a big jump. He played two years at Shattuck. I think the month of Bantam A was probably just to warm up for the HM High School tryouts. Can't imagine he really had any intention of playing Bantams again!! Especially since the Edina team is pretty light this year from reports on this board. If the rumor is true - congrats!! He's a nice player.

Was a senior cut in favor of this Freshman "vagabond"? Where's the loyalty in this case Doglover? Certainly not in this player's vocabulary.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:52 am

The solution is simple. Don't formalize the Bantam rosters until you have to, which is Dec 31st (I believe)

That way if a player leaves, the A Bantam coach brings up a player from B1 to replace him. How difficult is that? I don't get why people get so up in arms over this.

And to say that parents should forfeit the Bantam money if their kid makes HS is stupid to say the least.

...another option that some associations do is have the players sign a waiver that if they make the A team, they won't try out for the HS team. I don't like the idea of that, but I know of some situations where that has occurred.

flatontheice · Post by **flatontheice** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:07 pm

gopher1 wrote:Lakeville North BA lost a couple to varsity. Nate Arnetz and Brady Skjei, both are very skilled and should help. Good Luck to both of them!!!!

They made Lakeville's varsity?

Doglover · Post by **Doglover** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:36 pm

muckandgrind has it right!

gerryodrowski · Post by **gerryodrowski** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:05 pm

Doglover wrote:muckandgrind has it right!

I agree with you Dogmother (can't believe it though).

BogeyMan · Post by **BogeyMan** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:13 pm

The same parents who complain about the top players getting the majority of ice time and PowerPlays are the ones who are now complaining that their team is no longer competitive because those players opted out for HS hockey.......

You can't have it both ways!!

Look at it this way. Be happy, that from a development standpoint your kid should get better based on the opportunities to play late in games and on the PP.

Fire and Ice · Post by **Fire and Ice** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:08 pm

Some do make you forfeit your money and it makes people think twice about the decision.You cant have your cake and eat it too...either you play youth or HS not both.

gopher1 · Post by **gopher1** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:51 am

flatontheice wrote:
gopher1 wrote:Lakeville North BA lost a couple to varsity. Nate Arnetz and Brady Skjei, both are very skilled and should help. Good Luck to both of them!!!!
They made Lakeville's varsity?

Yes both of them. Both are on 2nd line PP, and 2nd line 5v5. The coach isn't worried about putting them out there because they are both smart players. They shoud be fun to watch!!!

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:40 am

Again, when it comes to Freshman be careful what you wish for..they were both good bantams but lake conference play is a whole new ballgame. Time will tell, lets hope they do well.

daffy duck · Post by **daffy duck** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:15 pm

mngopherfan wrote:Anybody know if MPLS PK lost any of their players? They have had a great start to the year...

MPLS PK lost Dman Benolkin(Holy Angels JV) & FW Iverson(Breck)

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