"Showcase" attempting to take over the metro?

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buttend
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:53 pm

Post by buttend »

imaloserbaby wrote: The original question was: "Showcase" attempting to take over the metro?

Based upon the info above, and other info floating out in the public, the answer would be "yes", they are trying to take control over the metro non-association hockey season. They are adding teams and trying to leverage their size against the independents (i.e. non alliance teams) and force them out of the market.

They are a "for-profit" business so who can fault them for trying to make the most of the business opportunity. I will argue that these decisions do not go hand-in-hand with what is best for development since their passion is not 100% directed at the kids and the development - some of that passion is directed towards the bottom line profits. But, that is just my opinion.

Showcase is not trying to take over the Metro. They are trying to stay in the game. 3-4 years ago Showacse managed most of the summer play with their AAA league, their Showcase league and their tournaments.

Today they have lost most of their business to all the start up AAA privates. Some of those start up are for profit ( MM, Magicians, Showcase, Northern Edge, Edge, RBK) some are clubs, Icemen/Rockets, Cyclones, St Criox AAA Hockey.

Example last year the Icemen had teams at 95,96,97,98. This coming year they are putting together teams at 95,96,97,98,99,00 and Rocket teams at 95,96,97,98,99,00 + girls teams. Thats up to 10 more teams in 2009 than 2008. I'm not picking on this club, I just pointing out the growth that is happening outside of Showcase. The players going to the privates today went to Showcase 3-4 years ago.

Why has Showcase lost out? Development. Showcase's product was primarily teams and games, spring,summer, fall fun hockey. Independants came along ( Machine, Blades etc) and changed the thinking on summer development and expectations. Showcase is figtning for its business life. You cant blame them for trying to stay in the game.
skilldevelopementguy
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:18 pm

Post by skilldevelopementguy »

puckfan wrote:That's pretty funny because that same program's Squirt A team last year had all the kids that wanted no part of it.
Are you saying "all of the kids on the squirt A team wanted no part of it" or "all of the kids who wanted no part of it were on the squirt A team"? I know the second quote is more accurate because I know a few of the kids on the STMA squirt A team last year that thought it was great.
puckfan wrote:I know that their association is not doing team training as a whole there this year so not sure what that means.........
It means that the association decided it was safer to revert to making it optional for all teams as there was a vocal minority that dissented to training at Competitive Edge.

That whole episode is just an example of a situation that I find pretty frustrating. I have from time to time helped those guys out as an instructor and, through that, they are now friends of mine. That being the case, I admit bias, but I have seen what the Crossover Flywheel can do and considering that it is a great tool for lateral movement in general it is amazing how hard it has been to get the market to give it a chance. I guess most of the market doesn't understand how important lateral movement and excellence on the outside edges are in the game. Worse yet some people give it just enough chance to not quite get past the early phase before dismissing it. In that early phase it is pretty uncomfortable and awkward to skate on, and kids who are good at hockey are not used to struggling with any hockey activity so my guess is this is exactly what happened to those STMA Squirt As last year... kids who don't normally struggle at hockey were put in a bit of a humbling position. On the other hand, you will hear a very different story from almost everybody who has stuck with it long enough to get though the challenging phase (that is when the on-ice benefit really starts to take hold).

To that point, the Crossover Flywheel has been a phenomenal tool for lots of players. I am sure it isn't universal, but if you ask people in the Rogers association you will find there are a lot of examples of kids who have dramatically improved their skating (Competitive Edge is working with Rogers for the 3rd straight season now). More pertinently, ask anybody that was around the Monopoly program last summer. Ask them about the experience that the players had in the program and in the Competitive Edge facility. Ask them how much players improved.

Also, echoing what Wildfan has already said, CCM Program is neither totally Showcase nor totally Monopoly. Showcase and Monopoly are working together specifically because they needed to in order to give CCM what they wanted for the sponsorship. Specific to the 98, 99, and 00 CCM teams, those are the exact same programs as the Monopoly program from last year other than the name of teams and some branded hockey equipment that is thrown in.

Speaking of that, why do you think the Monopoly program was able to go from 1 to 6 teams from the first year to the second? There is one reason... Monopoly players who had not been known to be elite went back after the summer to their associations and passed up players that were ahead of them the previous year... including other players that spent the summer doing AAA or a lot of other development as well. This growth to 6 teams is not a self-fulfilling prophecy, it was a response by players and families who weren't in the program last year to the improvement of the players and families who were. At the heart of that program is the facility training and the Crossover Flywheel but they are also known to run very effective ice-times.

I obviously have a lot to say about this, again because it is frustrating to see such a great program struggle to get attention (though this year's growth of the Monopoly program is very encouraging). I want to see those guys and the facility training program succeed. The program deserves to succeed on its own merit. The market just needs to give it a real chance. I suggest that those STMA squirt As from last year would benefit greatly from giving it another shot and this time sticking it out until the players get used to the wheel.
The extra "e" in "developement" is for EXCELLENT!
JoeBoy
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:52 pm

Post by JoeBoy »

buttend wrote:
imaloserbaby wrote: The original question was: "Showcase" attempting to take over the metro?

Based upon the info above, and other info floating out in the public, the answer would be "yes", they are trying to take control over the metro non-association hockey season. They are adding teams and trying to leverage their size against the independents (i.e. non alliance teams) and force them out of the market.

They are a "for-profit" business so who can fault them for trying to make the most of the business opportunity. I will argue that these decisions do not go hand-in-hand with what is best for development since their passion is not 100% directed at the kids and the development - some of that passion is directed towards the bottom line profits. But, that is just my opinion.

Showcase is not trying to take over the Metro. They are trying to stay in the game. 3-4 years ago Showacse managed most of the summer play with their AAA league, their Showcase league and their tournaments.

Today they have lost most of their business to all the start up AAA privates. Some of those start up are for profit ( MM, Magicians, Showcase, Northern Edge, Edge, RBK) some are clubs, Icemen/Rockets, Cyclones, St Criox AAA Hockey.

Example last year the Icemen had teams at 95,96,97,98. This coming year they are putting together teams at 95,96,97,98,99,00 and Rocket teams at 95,96,97,98,99,00 + girls teams. Thats up to 10 more teams in 2009 than 2008. I'm not picking on this club, I just pointing out the growth that is happening outside of Showcase. The players going to the privates today went to Showcase 3-4 years ago.

Why has Showcase lost out? Development. Showcase's product was primarily teams and games, spring,summer, fall fun hockey. Independants came along ( Machine, Blades etc) and changed the thinking on summer development and expectations. Showcase is figtning for its business life. You cant blame them for trying to stay in the game.
This to me sounds more correct. Showcase is good at what which is provide a place to play hockey games but I didn't seem to focus on development ( game to practice ratio was 1:1 ). Sure they had some PHIT clinics for showcase teams but these wern't very good. Drills were all right but run by younger kids with little or no instruction for the participants. We found our team practices better than the clinics. I heard there changing to more practice less games this year but now everyone one want development not to play games ... just playing games has become taboo
puckfan
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:04 pm

Post by puckfan »

Are you saying "all of the kids on the squirt A team wanted no part of it" or "all of the kids who wanted no part of it were on the squirt A team"? I know the second quote is more accurate because I know a few of the kids on the STMA squirt A team last year that thought it was great.
You're right I should have stated that 75% of the kids on that team wanted no part of it and the other 25% were well, indifferent.
Worse yet some people give it just enough chance to not quite get past the early phase before dismissing it. In that early phase it is pretty uncomfortable and awkward to skate on, and kids who are good at hockey are not used to struggling with any hockey activity so my guess is this is exactly what happened to those STMA Squirt As last year... kids who don't normally struggle at hockey were put in a bit of a humbling position. On the other hand, you will hear a very different story from almost everybody who has stuck with it long enough to get though the challenging phase (that is when the on-ice benefit really starts to take hold).
How long does that "uncomfortable" stage usually last? I know that it is different for everyone, but when you're there doing the training how many sessions before they pass that stage?


The small area rink they use is really good!
skilldevelopementguy
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:18 pm

Post by skilldevelopementguy »

puckfan wrote:
You're right I should have stated that 75% of the kids on that team wanted no part of it and the other 25% were well, indifferent.

How long does that "uncomfortable" stage usually last? I know that it is different for everyone, but when you're there doing the training how many sessions before they pass that stage?


The small area rink they use is really good!
If that is true that 25% were at best indifferent, then something went wrong with that team whether it be just a couple of bad instructors or something or it may have stemmed from the people around the team not understanding what the flywheel would eventually do for the kids and their not valuing it trickled down to some of the players.

I watched the Rogers squirt As up there the other night. They were stickhandling on the wheel (remember they've had a few years to get used to it) and they did not want to get off of it when their half hour was up.

Regarding your question on how long it takes to get acclimated... one of the guys up there could give a much better answer, but I can say that you are right in saying it is different for each kid. Also, it takes longer with team training than with small-group sessions. This is because you get fewer reps on the wheel when you are with your team and, possibly more impotantly, there is too much time between sessions. When you come once and then don't come back for two weeks you will have to relearn a lot. Early on it is better to pack those sessions together. For group sessions, most times players get comfortable in maybe 3 or 4 sessions.

Good point about the rink, as an instructor that was always my favorite. Kids seem to enjoy it too.
The extra "e" in "developement" is for EXCELLENT!
DMom
Posts: 993
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:46 am

Post by DMom »

skilldevelopementguy wrote:
puckfan wrote:
You're right I should have stated that 75% of the kids on that team wanted no part of it and the other 25% were well, indifferent.

How long does that "uncomfortable" stage usually last? I know that it is different for everyone, but when you're there doing the training how many sessions before they pass that stage?


The small area rink they use is really good!
If that is true that 25% were at best indifferent, then something went wrong with that team whether it be just a couple of bad instructors or something or it may have stemmed from the people around the team not understanding what the flywheel would eventually do for the kids and their not valuing it trickled down to some of the players.

I watched the Rogers squirt As up there the other night. They were stickhandling on the wheel (remember they've had a few years to get used to it) and they did not want to get off of it when their half hour was up.

Regarding your question on how long it takes to get acclimated... one of the guys up there could give a much better answer, but I can say that you are right in saying it is different for each kid. Also, it takes longer with team training than with small-group sessions. This is because you get fewer reps on the wheel when you are with your team and, possibly more impotantly, there is too much time between sessions. When you come once and then don't come back for two weeks you will have to relearn a lot. Early on it is better to pack those sessions together. For group sessions, most times players get comfortable in maybe 3 or 4 sessions.

Good point about the rink, as an instructor that was always my favorite. Kids seem to enjoy it too.
I will say that my oldest hates the treadmill. Along the same argument, he is a very good skater and he hated having to struggle with it, he hated it. I can see that would apply to this fly wheel.
play4fun
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:01 pm

A different "development" question...

Post by play4fun »

The flywheel at Competitive Edge is one of the better off-ice training tools around. Younger skaters can see a pretty dramatic improvement in their on-ice abilities in a relatively short period of time (think four to five weeks if they work out on the wheel a couple of times a week). It can be pretty intimidating at first, and took my kids 4-5 times before they started really having fun on it.

Treadmills are another good off-ice tool.

There are lots of good options available for skills development, and it seems as though there's a ton of demand as evidenced by the growth of all of the summer "AAA" programs.

I've been reading posts on this site for awhile now, and I have a different "development" question. Just as kids can benefit from skills development programs (e.g., edgework, stick handling, dryland excercises, etc.), are there any programs out there that excel at teaching the fundamentals of the game itself? How to play different positions?

The reason I ask is that some associations aren't very strong in teaching the game of hockey (mine included), and the summer programs seem to fall into two camps -- drills, drills, drills -- or all-star teams built to win tournaments.

Are there any programs out there that are known for developing players, and not just skaters? Pond-hockey is great, but it'd be nice to have a program that is focused on teaching kids how to play the game -- and more than just breakout drills...
surehockey
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:48 am

Post by surehockey »

Does anyone know anything about the RBK Nationals (formally Northern Edge Nationals)?
Jimbo99
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 3:15 pm

Re: A different "development" question...

Post by Jimbo99 »

play4fun wrote:The flywheel at Competitive Edge is one of the better off-ice training tools around. Younger skaters can see a pretty dramatic improvement in their on-ice abilities in a relatively short period of time (think four to five weeks if they work out on the wheel a couple of times a week). It can be pretty intimidating at first, and took my kids 4-5 times before they started really having fun on it.

Treadmills are another good off-ice tool.

There are lots of good options available for skills development, and it seems as though there's a ton of demand as evidenced by the growth of all of the summer "AAA" programs.

I've been reading posts on this site for awhile now, and I have a different "development" question. Just as kids can benefit from skills development programs (e.g., edgework, stick handling, dryland excercises, etc.), are there any programs out there that excel at teaching the fundamentals of the game itself? How to play different positions?

The reason I ask is that some associations aren't very strong in teaching the game of hockey (mine included), and the summer programs seem to fall into two camps -- drills, drills, drills -- or all-star teams built to win tournaments.

Are there any programs out there that are known for developing players, and not just skaters? Pond-hockey is great, but it'd be nice to have a program that is focused on teaching kids how to play the game -- and more than just breakout drills...
I've looked for the same thing for quite a few years. No one seems interested in teaching that stuff. "Conditioning & skills" is what everyone is all about. There is VERY little teaching about the game, even situational stuff is hard to find, much less game strategy and positional stuff.

Good luck. Let us know if you find anything!
DMom
Posts: 993
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:46 am

Re: A different "development" question...

Post by DMom »

Jimbo99 wrote:
play4fun wrote:The flywheel at Competitive Edge is one of the better off-ice training tools around. Younger skaters can see a pretty dramatic improvement in their on-ice abilities in a relatively short period of time (think four to five weeks if they work out on the wheel a couple of times a week). It can be pretty intimidating at first, and took my kids 4-5 times before they started really having fun on it.

Treadmills are another good off-ice tool.

There are lots of good options available for skills development, and it seems as though there's a ton of demand as evidenced by the growth of all of the summer "AAA" programs.

I've been reading posts on this site for awhile now, and I have a different "development" question. Just as kids can benefit from skills development programs (e.g., edgework, stick handling, dryland excercises, etc.), are there any programs out there that excel at teaching the fundamentals of the game itself? How to play different positions?

The reason I ask is that some associations aren't very strong in teaching the game of hockey (mine included), and the summer programs seem to fall into two camps -- drills, drills, drills -- or all-star teams built to win tournaments.

Are there any programs out there that are known for developing players, and not just skaters? Pond-hockey is great, but it'd be nice to have a program that is focused on teaching kids how to play the game -- and more than just breakout drills...
I've looked for the same thing for quite a few years. No one seems interested in teaching that stuff. "Conditioning & skills" is what everyone is all about. There is VERY little teaching about the game, even situational stuff is hard to find, much less game strategy and positional stuff.

Good luck. Let us know if you find anything!
check out:
http://www.skatetoexcellence.com/

I have no connection to this program at all, but a few years ago the guy behind it coached my oldest and that was the only time I have saw it taught.
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