Quality of Hockey This Year

[Doglover]

Personally I think there are still many talented players and hockeyboys is right that they aren't all on the top teams (although completely disagree that the transfer rule is working at all). I think it's not the players' fault, but most likely the parents who are pushing the coaches for line positions, exposure, etc. to promote their kids without the best interests of the team in mind. Look at AHA with 3 boys from the same family on the power play. The young dman is a nice player and will probably be great once he grows a bit, but was he set up to fail. Not saying it's the parents pushing this but when you've moved schools so many times (and how exactly was that transfer rule working?) it makes one wonder...

I wonder if any of the teams gave their players days off over the holiday break so they could just go play some good olde pond hockey since the ice has been so great?

[midwesthockeyscout]

I think that the players are just as talented...but much more selfish. Not as much passing, seems to me every Dman in the state wants to rush the puck end to end. Everyone is looking to score by themselves. Not as many pretty passing plays. Just my opinion.

I personally think the top end talent skill level (the D1 prospects) are as good as ever. With the recent defection of Michael Dorr from the U of M because he can't crack the lineup, that goes to show how good the top end talent is, because he was a fine player at HS ranks...Even though my opinion doesn't matter on offensive players, and I can frely comment on someone I happen to see, I think Lee and Everson from Edina, Pitlick from Centennial are explosive, damn good athletes.

[Papa Bergundy]

I disagree. I think it's tough to say hockey is down this year, look at the personnel this is a very talented senior class in Minnesota. And it's competitive, any of the top teams can win on any given night.

Hill beats Edina, Tonka beats Hill, Edina beats Tonka, WBL beats Centennial, Centennial beats Hill, Jefferson beats EP, Breck beats Duluth East, Wayzata beats Breck, Duluth East beats Wayzata. The list goes on. I think the talent is quite evenly spread out this year. I wouldn't say Edina has pulled away, they've just got the best team on paper.

And I also disagree with the hockey scout and hockey lover, no problem in taking the summer to improve your game. I think I speak for the majority of hockey players everywhere, no one gets sick of the game we love. Some players just don't play with as much heart, but that's true every year.

You may not have understood my point. If the vast majority of players are playing year-round, why isn't the skill level of fundamental hockey better? Are you really improving your game?? And those that don't play with as much heart is probably because they have hit the wall... and I stated that some times players just hit the wall with skill level. It doesn't matter how much extra ice. I have seen players train with Bernie and Diane Ness to improve skills, but when it translates to game play?? They wasted money.

My comment also included that if "you don't play year-round, you get left behind." I am not saying you shouldn't. I am just not a big believer. I think every kid needs two months off the ice at the end of the season, and spend it in the weight room, so that when summer rolls around, the excitement to lace the skates is there.

Ok I think i get it now, please correct me if I'm wrong. You believe that players need to train hard during the off season, but the current typical off season program isn't very effective?

I agree with that to a certain degree, I think you just see at as a bigger problem than I do. Either way, no better way to guage the quality of hockey than in March.

[Pucklvr]

WOW, I hear a lot of different reason why you think it is better or why you think it is down.

I have a question for you all:
How do you define quality of hockey throughout the entire state?

Here is what I think.....

Quality of hockey is not.....
Pairty. Parity=equality not quality. You can have have bad against bad or good against good that is pairty.
Based on individuals. While making individuals great is important. I feel like we are hearing more than ever this year about individuals and not teams.
Teams being up and teams being down (this happens every year. it always will)

Quality is....
The flow of the game (to me, everything seems way more choppy this year)
The teamwork of a team (I am just not seeing it as much as I use to)
Stickhandling and finesse- (things just aren't as pretty as they have been)
The speed of the game (everything seems slower this year)
Teams control- (I have seen more stupid penalties this year than ever before)
Creativity of the game- (this just seem more basic)

Is it just the games I am watching, or is this really happening? I am not an expert but this is just what I am seeing.

[karl(east)]

Quality of hockey is not.....
Pairty. Parity=equality not quality. You can have have bad against bad or good against good that is pairty.

While this is obviously true to some extent, I still believe parity, when we view the state as a whole, can be a good indicator of gameplay quality. Better leagues have closer scores and more competitive teams. They have more teams capable of beating any other team on any night. This isn't that hard to see. Obviously the NHL practically never has games with 10-goal margins of victory. They're also very rare in college, though they certainly can happen with the right matchups. They're a bit more frequent in high school, and even more frequent as you go further and further down the ranks through youth systems.

Generally, more parity and more close hockey games (or games in any sport) will indicate higher quality of play. My instinct is to say that we're seeing a little more of that this year, as we have had what seem to be some silly upsets (more than usual?), and even the best team IMO (Edina) isn't blowing its opponents out of the water, but methodically going along winning games.

It may be that this instinct is completely wrong, that I am watching the wrong games, and if someone had the time on their hands to go through and do a thorough study of margins of victory, they would prove me wrong. But the point here is that relative parity can be used as a measurement of quality of play.

[O-townClown]

My instinct is to say that we're seeing a little more of that this year, as we have had what seem to be some silly upsets (more than usual?), and even the best team IMO (Edina) isn't blowing its opponents out of the water, but methodically going along winning games.

I dunno, 11-1 against what www.mnhockeyrankings.com calls the toughest schedule in the state so far.

11-4 over #68 ranked Buffalo, who has a winning record.
4-1 over #11 Wayzata.
8-1 over #29 Burnsville.
5-2 over # 17 Woodbury, who scored theirs late.
3-1 over #20 Elk River.
3-2 over #3 Eden Prairie.
8-4 over #9 Blaine.
3-0 over #15 Moorhead.
4-2 over #10 Minnetonka.
5-2 over #7 Holy Angels.

They may have won close games against Elk River and Eden Prairie, but it is mostly 2-3 goal margins over Top 20 teams and absolute blowouts whenever the opponent is worse. Obviously they lost to Hill-Murray, but other than that the results are more impressive than you let on.

Jefferson has lit up Apple Valley, Eastview, Chaska, and Rosemount. See a pattern? When one of the top teams plays an inferior team you get the blowouts. It isn't like Top 20 teams get pasted very often. When they lose the margin is more likely to be 2 or 3 goals.

If you are looking for Hill-Murray or Holy Angels-like dominance you won't find it from Edina becuase their schedule is a little stiffer.

[northhockey23]

I would have to disagree, it seems the same to me, how is it more choppy and less finesse? I would have to say you are watching the wrong games pucklvr.

[karl(east)]

My instinct is to say that we're seeing a little more of that this year, as we have had what seem to be some silly upsets (more than usual?), and even the best team IMO (Edina) isn't blowing its opponents out of the water, but methodically going along winning games.

I dunno, 11-1 against what www.mnhockeyrankings.com calls the toughest schedule in the state so far.

11-4 over #68 ranked Buffalo, who has a winning record.
4-1 over #11 Wayzata.
8-1 over #29 Burnsville.
5-2 over # 17 Woodbury, who scored theirs late.
3-1 over #20 Elk River.
3-2 over #3 Eden Prairie.
8-4 over #9 Blaine.
3-0 over #15 Moorhead.
4-2 over #10 Minnetonka.
5-2 over #7 Holy Angels.

They may have won close games against Elk River and Eden Prairie, but it is mostly 2-3 goal margins over Top 20 teams and absolute blowouts whenever the opponent is worse. Obviously they lost to Hill-Murray, but other than that the results are more impressive than you let on.

Jefferson has lit up Apple Valley, Eastview, Chaska, and Rosemount. See a pattern? When one of the top teams plays an inferior team you get the blowouts. It isn't like Top 20 teams get pasted very often. When they lose the margin is more likely to be 2 or 3 goals.

If you are looking for Hill-Murray or Holy Angels-like dominance you won't find it from Edina becuase their schedule is a little stiffer.

I agree with you, mostly...by "methodical winning" I'd say most of their wins have been by 3-4 goals, which is what the vast majority of those games are, and I've lauded Edina's success against its very difficult schedule elsewhere on this board.

But if you compare Edina's goal differential to where it was at this point last year (against what I feel is a comparable schedule), it's practically the same as it was at this point last year. And while they were in a tier of about five teams that had a claim to #1 at this point last year, right now I'd say it's a tier of two. This suggests that the rest of the league is a bit more compressed than it was last year, which is a sign of parity.

[O-townClown]

6-1 Maple Grove
5-1 Wayzata
8-2 Roch. Century
4-2 Eastview
4-3 Burnsville
8-2 Chaska
3-2 Grand Rapids
4-3 Elk River
4-1 Eden Prairie
1-2 Benilde
3-2 Wayzata
6-1 Brainerd
3-2 Centennial
8-2 Wayzata

I still don't see it. They were beating the decent teams by 2-3 goals and only blew out the inferior clubs. Part of it is that you don't always know at the time how good teams are. For example, Century had finished 3rd in the state the season before and it isn't unreasonable to assume they were Top 20 again. As we now know, they weren't.

Edina actually had a lot more 1-goal wins than they have had this season.