Program Integrity

[inthestands]

I applaud the HM coach for upholding the agreement all players and parents believed in prior to the season starting.

There are way too many situations in life, where if kids learned the appropriate lessons along the way they would be much better off down the road.

In one response here, it was speculated that parents threatened a lawsuit if their child wasn't allowed to play after breaking a set guideline.

We can all learn from this experience, but many probably won't. It is nice to see people coming together to support following the agreed upon guidelines. I hope we could all do the same thing if it was our child in that position.

[pondhockey]

The great thing about sports is that it provides a positive use for the student's time. I certainly believe in appropriate consequences and I agree with the MSHSL rules that are in place now. I hope a student wouldn't be completely suspended from the team at their first or second alcohol offense, even to set an example. This could put them even at more risk to pursue negative behaviors. Obviously, If a student gets a third alcohol offense or more than one drug offense they may need extensive counseling.

[Melvin44]

I also applaud the HM coach. I'm pretty sure all players sign a promise to not use drugs and alcohol. If a player chooses to break that promise to thier teammates they should be punished. Hopefully after a first offense the player will learn a valuable lesson. Don't let your teammates and friends down! I don't mind the rules in place now but feel someone who breaks the rule twice obviously has no respect to friends and teammates and would understand if a coach wanted to suspend a player longer.

As for WBL I think the player wasn't on the team last year and therefore in my opinion should not have been allowed to play varsity right away and wouldn't have had a problem with her not playing varsity at all. I understand the WBL coach’s decision and 100% ok with it being a first year coach you should to stick to the guidelines in place.

[hockeya1a]

I also applaud the HM coach. I'm pretty sure all players sign a promise to not use drugs and alcohol. If a player chooses to break that promise to thier teammates they should be punished. Hopefully after a first offense the player will learn a valuable lesson. Don't let your teammates and friends down! I don't mind the rules in place now but feel someone who breaks the rule twice obviously has no respect to friends and teammates and would understand if a coach wanted to suspend a player longer.

As for WBL I think the player wasn't on the team last year and therefore in my opinion should not have been allowed to play varsity right away and wouldn't have had a problem with her not playing varsity at all. I understand the WBL coach’s decision and 100% ok with it being a first year coach you should to stick to the guidelines in place.

I think that giving the credit to the coach is not completely correct
I do not think it is the coach is the one who has the final say and usually is just the fall guy or gal. most of the time the coaches hands are tied and is AD , the board or many others including the MSHSL that has the say.

Yes, they should be punished if they did wrong.
But lets stop making the coach out to be a hero or something.

[joehockey]

I think some coaches ignore issues that they are aware of - the most important thing a coach or teacher does is develop kids for life - some accpet this job others look the other way. When a coach takes action it is right to give them credit.

I also applaud the HM coach. I'm pretty sure all players sign a promise to not use drugs and alcohol. If a player chooses to break that promise to thier teammates they should be punished. Hopefully after a first offense the player will learn a valuable lesson. Don't let your teammates and friends down! I don't mind the rules in place now but feel someone who breaks the rule twice obviously has no respect to friends and teammates and would understand if a coach wanted to suspend a player longer.

As for WBL I think the player wasn't on the team last year and therefore in my opinion should not have been allowed to play varsity right away and wouldn't have had a problem with her not playing varsity at all. I understand the WBL coach’s decision and 100% ok with it being a first year coach you should to stick to the guidelines in place.

I think that giving the credit to the coach is not completely correct
I do not think it is the coach is the one who has the final say and usually is just the fall guy or gal. most of the time the coaches hands are tied and is AD , the board or many others including the MSHSL that has the say.

Yes, they should be punished if they did wrong.
But lets stop making the coach out to be a hero or something.

[Melvin44]

I also applaud the HM coach. I'm pretty sure all players sign a promise to not use drugs and alcohol. If a player chooses to break that promise to thier teammates they should be punished. Hopefully after a first offense the player will learn a valuable lesson. Don't let your teammates and friends down! I don't mind the rules in place now but feel someone who breaks the rule twice obviously has no respect to friends and teammates and would understand if a coach wanted to suspend a player longer.

As for WBL I think the player wasn't on the team last year and therefore in my opinion should not have been allowed to play varsity right away and wouldn't have had a problem with her not playing varsity at all. I understand the WBL coach’s decision and 100% ok with it being a first year coach you should to stick to the guidelines in place.

I think that giving the credit to the coach is not completely correct
I do not think it is the coach is the one who has the final say and usually is just the fall guy or gal. most of the time the coaches hands are tied and is AD , the board or many others including the MSHSL that has the say.

Yes, they should be punished if they did wrong.
But lets stop making the coach out to be a hero or something.

I never said he was a hero. Let's face it a coach who suspends 4 of his top scorers during a season has guts. Would you? Obviously not. I'm sure he got to the bottom of the problem and felt it was the right decision and yes I applaud him.

[inthestands]

I also applaud the HM coach. I'm pretty sure all players sign a promise to not use drugs and alcohol. If a player chooses to break that promise to thier teammates they should be punished. Hopefully after a first offense the player will learn a valuable lesson. Don't let your teammates and friends down! I don't mind the rules in place now but feel someone who breaks the rule twice obviously has no respect to friends and teammates and would understand if a coach wanted to suspend a player longer.

As for WBL I think the player wasn't on the team last year and therefore in my opinion should not have been allowed to play varsity right away and wouldn't have had a problem with her not playing varsity at all. I understand the WBL coach’s decision and 100% ok with it being a first year coach you should to stick to the guidelines in place.

I think that giving the credit to the coach is not completely correct
I do not think it is the coach is the one who has the final say and usually is just the fall guy or gal. most of the time the coaches hands are tied and is AD , the board or many others including the MSHSL that has the say.

Yes, they should be punished if they did wrong.
But lets stop making the coach out to be a hero or something.

What would you call this coach? Many times coaches have the "first" word in getting the problem out there or covering it up.

I don't know the details of this instance, but would feel confident that if this coach was more worried about keeping his state tourney run in tact, rather than doing the right thing, there could have been much different consequences.

We need more coaches, and parents to step up in situations like this and do the right thing. If this was the norm, our kids growing up today would be much better off in their post high school days.

[Puck Bag]

I think that giving the credit to the coach is not completely correct
I do not think it is the coach is the one who has the final say and usually is just the fall guy or gal. most of the time the coaches hands are tied and is AD , the board or many others including the MSHSL that has the say.

Yes, they should be punished if they did wrong.
But lets stop making the coach out to be a hero or something.

The coach is the AD at Hill - hero, maybe not but he did it right and for that he should be held to a higher standard than those that tend to look the other way.

[joehockey]

I think that giving the credit to the coach is not completely correct
I do not think it is the coach is the one who has the final say and usually is just the fall guy or gal. most of the time the coaches hands are tied and is AD , the board or many others including the MSHSL that has the say.

Yes, they should be punished if they did wrong.
But lets stop making the coach out to be a hero or something.

The coach is the AD at Hill - hero, maybe not but he did it right and for that he should be held to a higher standard than those that tend to look the other way.

At Hill the dominate sport for the school is Boy's Hockey so this action sent a strong message across the school for all athletes and maybe all students.

[hockeya1a]

I think that giving the credit to the coach is not completely correct
I do not think it is the coach is the one who has the final say and usually is just the fall guy or gal. most of the time the coaches hands are tied and is AD , the board or many others including the MSHSL that has the say.

Yes, they should be punished if they did wrong.
But lets stop making the coach out to be a hero or something.

The coach is the AD at Hill - hero, maybe not but he did it right and for that he should be held to a higher standard than those that tend to look the other way.

At Hill the dominate sport for the school is Boy's Hockey so this action sent a strong message across the school for all athletes and maybe all students.

Fair enough!

Was that what was expected to happen if they messed up?
or was it more severe?

[WBLHockey]

All I can confirm in WBL is that the consequences vary depending on who the player is. Pretty pathetic.

[jumpstart]

All I can confirm in WBL is that the consequences vary depending on who the player is. Pretty pathetic.

Aren't you the picture of positive thinking today ...

Unless you know something the rest of us don't, the punishment for alcohol/drug use has been consistently meted out at WBL. That is to say, the MSHSL rules have applied and have been followed.

If you're talking about other forms of discipline, please be more specific ... don't hide behind a generalization.

[GopherFanARM]

As an aside, I've heard of situations in which students are caught with drugs/alcohol during the offseason and quickly sign up for another sport so that he or she can serve his or her suspension prior to participating in their primary sport. For example, a hockey player is caught with drugs in fall. He signs up for soccer (a sport he hasn't played) serves his suspension and then quits soccer. It is within the rules but I have a problem with this. I think parents and kids would be better off if their kid experience the consequences of their actions rather than playing games to get around the rules.

A problem like this is 100% on the parents. Schools attempt to set up a system of rules with the students' best interests in mind -- rules that are in place mainly to protect young people from themselves. Such systems are seldom going to work if the parents/guardians aren't sharing that same interest in the child. A 3-week sport suspension is a relatively painless lesson. Moms and dads, allow your children to learn it if it is appropriate. Who knows, it could potentially help save them from something tragic like involvement in a DUI-related fatality or a chemical dependency problem. Continue to support your child through the hard times, but support doesn't mean helping them circumvent the rules.

[power92]

My distinction would be that drugs are an illegal substance. Tobacco/alcohol are only illegal for minors and those under 21. Also more readily available.

Could see jail time for possesion of narcotics. I don't believe many youth go to jail for tobacco or alcohol use.
Should there be a stiffer penalty for drugs vs tobacco/ alcohol?
My opinion, yes. Thats what I'm getting at here.
I've signed the MSHSL paperwork for my daughter before she could participate. As we all have, (those w/ H.S. athletes) They know its wrong, it is spelled out, and they do it any way.

It is a slippery slope to start justifying what is worse. If it is a banned substance for an athlete to use than the penalty should be enforced whether it was drugs, alcohol, or tobacco.

Nicotine is the MOST addictive drug. So to say tobacco is not a drug is pretty silly. The tobacco is just a transport for the drug, similar to marijuana being the transport for THC. Don't be fooled by what is and isn't a drug because of a label set forth by the FDA. I guess what I'm saying in my rant is... All banned substances should carry the same penalty, alcohol and tobacco are illegal until you are 21 or 18. So illegal is illegal with this population. With the exception of the 18 yo using tobacco, to me that would be the only sticky point.
Discuss

[inthestands]

Nicotine is the MOST addictive drug. So to say tobacco is not a drug is pretty silly. The tobacco is just a transport for the drug, similar to marijuana being the transport for THC. Don't be fooled by what is and isn't a drug because of a label set forth by the FDA. I guess what I'm saying in my rant is... All banned substances should carry the same penalty, alcohol and tobacco are illegal until you are 21 or 18. So illegal is illegal with this population. With the exception of the 18 yo using tobacco, to me that would be the only sticky point.
Discuss
_________________
....Can't thank you enough for the time.

Dan is that you??

[ghshockeyfan]

Nicotine is the MOST addictive drug. So to say tobacco is not a drug is pretty silly. The tobacco is just a transport for the drug, similar to marijuana being the transport for THC. Don't be fooled by what is and isn't a drug because of a label set forth by the FDA. I guess what I'm saying in my rant is... All banned substances should carry the same penalty, alcohol and tobacco are illegal until you are 21 or 18. So illegal is illegal with this population. With the exception of the 18 yo using tobacco, to me that would be the only sticky point.
Discuss
_________________
....Can't thank you enough for the time.

Dan is that you??

The problem is larger than sports or substance. Society, media, etc. essentially condone or promote use/abuse, etc. Parents, teachers, administrators, coaches, MSHSL, etc., etc. can only do so much and not sure what the answer is. Many just say "kids will do that" and I think that's half the problem right there.

[MNHockeyFan]

The problem is larger than sports or substance. Society, media, etc. essentially condone or promote use/abuse, etc. Parents, teachers, administrators, coaches, MSHSL, etc., etc. can only do so much and not sure what the answer is. Many just say "kids will do that" and I think that's half the problem right there.

So true...couldn't agree more.