Breck Wins State Again - Will they move to AA/

[Slap Shot]

So that would make the upper school ~545 students in grades 9-12.

That would equate to approximately ~1100 M-F students total and my guess is a large number of schools of that size play are playing AA.

Instead of saying schools like Breck, STA, and others should move, increasing the already substantial competition in AA, what if you didn't allow schools like Roseau, Hill-Murray, AHA, Benilde and the likes to move up, thus increasing the competition at the single A level?

It's an interesting idea, but if you didn't limit the sections they played in it would potentially restrict public school representation at state, and if you did limit the sections the uproar from the private school community would be unbearable.

[HShockeywatcher]

Defense actually had a very interesting point.

Instead of saying schools like Breck, STA, and others should move, increasing the already substantial competition in AA, what if you didn't allow schools like Roseau, Hill-Murray, AHA, Benilde and the likes to move up, thus increasing the competition at the single A level?

Not saying this is how it should be done, but food for thought nonetheless.

Two good, respected tournaments instead of just one? What a brilliant thought. Oh wait, I've had that for years

So that would make the upper school ~545 students in grades 9-12.

That would equate to approximately ~1100 M-F students total and my guess is a large number of schools of that size play are playing AA.

Well, your guess is wrong. The school was put in the class based on enrollment. Cretin is just over 200 students bigger and they are the smallest, natural AA school. St Thomas is in the class they were assigned in every sport. The only sport they dominate is swimming, and most year they would do just as well as a AA school.

Instead of saying schools like Breck, STA, and others should move, increasing the already substantial competition in AA, what if you didn't allow schools like Roseau, Hill-Murray, AHA, Benilde and the likes to move up, thus increasing the competition at the single A level?

It's an interesting idea, but if you didn't limit the sections they played in it would potentially restrict public school representation at state, and if you did limit the sections the uproar from the private school community would be unbearable.

Take a look around. What sections that don't have private schools would get them? The private schools would be put into sections with privates already and sections like 7A would have more teams that aren't private making a team like Marshall's chances significantly less. Plus, there would be very few AA private schools, so very few would make the tourney.

The biggest thing this would do is increase respect around the state, which in my opinion is what it's all about and would be a great thing for the sport.

[bafata88]

No, you are just wrong with regards to STA. Look at their schedule.[/quote]


You are correct; my comment was not meant to be directed to STA; the thread subject referred to the other school.

[bafata88]

Also,
Show me a parent who doesn't demand success and I'll most likely show you a bad parent. If that's too harsh for some of you, look at it this way; Why wouldn't a parent want their children to be successful? This, of course, has nothing to do with athletics either. I know for some of you this is really hard to comprehend, though.

You are a bit harsh; there are plenty of great parents who want success for their kids, but do not actively promote their kids to whoever will listen, have the money to pay for the best off season training, have the connections to get their kid all the best competitive opportunities, or even understand the whole Minnesota hockey system to push their kid into the best competition.

The field is tilted in favor of Breck in the single A world; and I suggest they like the competitive advantage and they will never change it.

[HShockeywatcher]

No, you are just wrong with regards to STA. Look at their schedule.

You are correct; my comment was not meant to be directed to STA; the thread subject referred to the other school.[/quote]

What would really change about Breck's schedule though? I doubt they'd drop St Thomas, Shattuck or the Schwan Cup. I think Mahtomedi, Totino and Lourdes would also be contenders to stay. Considering their conference schedule, that would leave 3 games where they could try to schedule AA opponents.

While that would help, it isn't something they need to be in AA to do.

What many people don't understand is the 4 year commitment. Look at Cloquet, while competitive some years in 7AA, this year they probably wouldn't have been competitive in 7A.

The field is tilted in favor of Breck in the single A world; and I suggest they like the competitive advantage and they will never change it.

I think if their conference situation changed, where they could play conference opponents only once the situation may change and open up their schedule quite a bit.

[mnhockeynemn]

Move Up? Why? They can go to state and play at the X every year, or they can get their butts handed to them by Minnetonka, EP, Wayzata, or Benilde every year in the section quarterfinals. I'm not a fan of Breck and think they should move up, but I see no advantage for them to do so.

In my idle situation, all these schools should be moved up:
-Breck
-Blake
-SC Cathedral
-Warroad
-Duluth Marshall
-Roch Lourdes
-St Thomas
-Hibbing
-Virginia
-Hermantown
-Mahtomedi
-Totino Grace
-South St Paul
-Thief River Falls
-International Falls
-Hutchinson

Each of these 16 schools are capable of putting out decent teams every few years and would make sections even more exciting, create some good rivalries, and remove all dispute over who exactly the best team is. Also, it would allow for 7AA to be all non-metro teams, would make 1AA much stronger, and would stop privates from dominating the lower class. That's all.

Hibbing, Virginia, and Int'l Falls produce good talent pretty much every year but these schools also have constant decreases in enrollment every year. They really aren't even close to the enrollment needed for AA schools. Yes, I would like to see more 7AA teams in the area, but I don't see it happening anytime soon, the numbers just aren't there.

[curtiscurve]

It is the choice of the schools and their coaches if they want to opt up. I am not going to get on my soap box and tell the Brecks, Blakes and STA's of the world that they need to opt up. I will say that getting these teams out of Class A would help increase the attendance of the Class A tournament. Look at how many people teams like Albert Lea, Little Falls, Hermantown and other small public schools bring to their quarter final games at the X. Breck and STA have no town to be proud of them. If Red Wing and Mahtomedi were to meet up in the quarters, the lower bowl of the X would be full vs a Lourdes/STA game. Just a thought.

[mnhockeynemn]

It is the choice of the schools and their coaches if they want to opt up. I am not going to get on my soap box and tell the Brecks, Blakes and STA's of the world that they need to opt up. I will say that getting these teams out of Class A would help increase the attendance of the Class A tournament. Look at how many people teams like Albert Lea, Little Falls, Hermantown and other small public schools bring to their quarter final games at the X. Breck and STA have no town to be proud of them. If Red Wing and Mahtomedi were to meet up in the quarters, the lower bowl of the X would be full vs a Lourdes/STA game. Just a thought.

It is an idea, there is a big difference for having a good solid team for a year making it to state, and even possibly even winning it. But some of these schools from class A that go almost every year and do well should tell you that they could probably compete at the AA level.

[HShockeywatcher]

It is the choice of the schools and their coaches if they want to opt up. I am not going to get on my soap box and tell the Brecks, Blakes and STA's of the world that they need to opt up. I will say that getting these teams out of Class A would help increase the attendance of the Class A tournament. Look at how many people teams like Albert Lea, Little Falls, Hermantown and other small public schools bring to their quarter final games at the X. Breck and STA have no town to be proud of them. If Red Wing and Mahtomedi were to meet up in the quarters, the lower bowl of the X would be full vs a Lourdes/STA game. Just a thought.

How did the Holy Angels/Hill Murray state final sell out in 2002? How bout Holy Angels/Moorhead in 2005? Cretin/Rapids in 2006? Roseau/Rapids in 2007?

If EVERY citizen from Roseau/Grand Rapids attends the game, which I'm guessing is far from what happens, they wouldn't fill half the arena. The towns of Holy Angels and Hill Murray have an even smaller population. How do they fill the stands?

People from all over, with no affiliation to the schools, want to see good high school hockey. Period. It comes down to respect. People all over know many of the Class A teams are as good, or better than, many AA teams. So wouldn't it make sense to go watch them? Hockey is hockey. As far as quality games go, there is probably one or two more in the AA tourney than the A tourney.

[Pioneerprideguy]

It is the choice of the schools and their coaches if they want to opt up. I am not going to get on my soap box and tell the Brecks, Blakes and STA's of the world that they need to opt up. I will say that getting these teams out of Class A would help increase the attendance of the Class A tournament. Look at how many people teams like Albert Lea, Little Falls, Hermantown and other small public schools bring to their quarter final games at the X. Breck and STA have no town to be proud of them. If Red Wing and Mahtomedi were to meet up in the quarters, the lower bowl of the X would be full vs a Lourdes/STA game. Just a thought.

How did the Holy Angels/Hill Murray state final sell out in 2002? How bout Holy Angels/Moorhead in 2005? Cretin/Rapids in 2006? Roseau/Rapids in 2007?

If EVERY citizen from Roseau/Grand Rapids attends the game, which I'm guessing is far from what happens, they wouldn't fill half the arena. The towns of Holy Angels and Hill Murray have an even smaller population. How do they fill the stands?

People from all over, with no affiliation to the schools, want to see good high school hockey. Period. It comes down to respect. People all over know many of the Class A teams are as good, or better than, many AA teams. So wouldn't it make sense to go watch them? Hockey is hockey. As far as quality games go, there is probably one or two more in the AA tourney than the A tourney.

Then why the major difference in attendance between the two tournaments?

[curtiscurve]

Double A sells out no matter what because it always has. I am talking about building up the Class A attendance. I will be the first to argue that Class A hockey is every bit as good, but it doesn't have the lure the AA tournament has. I am speaking as an eye witness to the size of the crowd at a STA or Breck quarter final game. Their side of the X is pathetic. Class A is where a majority of the attendance are fans of the schools playing, not just hockey. that is why having all public schools in the A tournament might increase attendance. All your examples were from AA games.

[HShockeywatcher]

Then why the major difference in attendance between the two tournaments?

You tell me. Respect for the game? The hockey isn't any less quality.

Double A sells out no matter what because it always has. I am talking about building up the Class A attendance. I will be the first to argue that Class A hockey is every bit as good, but it doesn't have the lure the AA tournament has. I am speaking as an eye witness to the size of the crowd at a STA or Breck quarter final game. Their side of the X is pathetic. Class A is where a majority of the attendance are fans of the schools playing, not just hockey. that is why having all public schools in the A tournament might increase attendance. All your examples were from AA games.

I understood what you were saying completely. My examples were from AA because the point is that those games don't sell out due to members of the communities showing up to support the programs, they sell out because people want to see good hockey.

[Slap Shot]

Well, your guess is wrong. The school was put in the class based on enrollment.

Take a look around. What sections that don't have private schools would get them?

My Dear Lord, you could not have misunderstood what I said by a wider margin. I am well aware STA was placed into A, but their enrollment figure is skewed given it's an all-boys school. Again, the question is how many schools with an enrollment of 1,100 (similar to an all-boys school at 550) would remain in Class A?

And the idea discussed was keeping all the privates in A and if they were indeed limited to just a few sections the privates would not be happy.

How did the Holy Angels/Hill Murray state final sell out in 2002? How bout Holy Angels/Moorhead in 2005? Cretin/Rapids in 2006? Roseau/Rapids in 2007?

Because the game is sold out before the games even start.

[moose27]

[quote="nipeshow18"][quote="fivehole628"][quote="Northsider"]Move Up? Why? They can go to state and play at the X every year, or they can get their butts handed to them by Minnetonka, EP, Wayzata, or Benilde every year in the section quarterfinals. I'm not a fan of Breck and think they should move up, but I see no advantage for them to do so.

In my idle situation, all these schools should be moved up:
-Breck
-Blake
-SC Cathedral
-Warroad
-Duluth Marshall
-Roch Lourdes
-St Thomas
-Hibbing
-Virginia
-Hermantown
-Mahtomedi
-Totino Grace
-South St Paul
-Thief River Falls
-International Falls
-Hutchinson
[/quote]


WOW.. Hutch, IF, SSP, even the iron range schools are you kidding me!! Move up.. Right. Like feeding lambs to the wolves!!

I not a fan of some of the privates in class A but it is what it is. None of those public schools should even consider AA. Hermantown is on the up big time. They really got their mojo going at the youth level. Hats off to them!! STA, Breck, Blake, Mahtomedi, T.G., i would love to see them out of class A. Won't happen though.. All of these teams can compete year in and year out with the big boys.

When is the last time a public school won a class A title that is not a private or from Northern 1/3 of the state? Red Wing??? I think it is time to give towns like SSP, Alexandria, Hutch, Sartell, Mankato, New Prague a light at the end of the tunnel!! JMHO

[BBB]

I will be the first to argue that Class A hockey is every bit as good, but it doesn't have the lure the AA tournament has

Now that's funny!

[curtiscurve]

I will be the first to argue that Class A hockey is every bit as good, but it doesn't have the lure the AA tournament has

Now that's funny!

Can you explain what is so funny about that? You don't think a Hermantown vs Warroad Class A final would be as good of hockey as say a Eden Prairie vs Blaine Class AA final?

[mulefarm]

NO!!!

[BBB]

You must have meant competitive...I thought you meant 'as good.'

[HawkeyPower]

SHOULD:
Breck - A top 20 school A/AA
Rochester Lourdes - Number of appearances will decrease, but they're a top 2 Rochester school every year.
St. Thomas Academy - A top 15 school A/AA
Warroad - As good or better than Roseau and Moorhead every year.
Thief River Falls - Tougher than 8A, but Warroad has their number.
South St. Paul - Been there before. They should be AA.

We'll see in a few years how Hermantown, D. Marshall, SCC, Mahtomedi, Totino, Blake, etc. are doing. My guess is some of these private schools will start to stuggle in 5-10 years.

Northern schools like IFalls and Virginia just don't have the numbers. Yes, I know Cloquet is in the same boat but they could end up in class A some years down the road. Just look at Greenway.

Hermantown is a public school.

[MNHockey75]

SHOULD:
Breck - A top 20 school A/AA
Rochester Lourdes - Number of appearances will decrease, but they're a top 2 Rochester school every year.
St. Thomas Academy - A top 15 school A/AA
Warroad - As good or better than Roseau and Moorhead every year.
Thief River Falls - Tougher than 8A, but Warroad has their number.
South St. Paul - Been there before. They should be AA.

We'll see in a few years how Hermantown, D. Marshall, SCC, Mahtomedi, Totino, Blake, etc. are doing. My guess is some of these private schools will start to stuggle in 5-10 years.

Northern schools like IFalls and Virginia just don't have the numbers. Yes, I know Cloquet is in the same boat but they could end up in class A some years down the road. Just look at Greenway.

Hermantown is a public school.

I know. So is Mahtomedi. I was referring to the private schools.

[curtiscurve]

You must have meant competitive...I thought you meant 'as good.'

I did mean as good. Remind me how the Hermantown Eden Prairie game went this year. Get off your high horse and admit the top tier Class A schools are as good as your precious Big schools.

[MNHockey75]

You must have meant competitive...I thought you meant 'as good.'

I did mean as good. Remind me how the Hermantown Eden Prairie game went this year. Get off your high horse and admit the top tier Class A schools are as good as your precious Big schools.

Just a few scores that show the Top A teams can play too...
St. Thomas Academy 3, Hill-Murray 1
Eden Prairie 4, Hermantown 3
Breck 6, Lakeville South 0
Warroad 4, Osseo 3
Warroad 5, Roseau 2
Warroad 5, Moorhead 3
Hill-Murray 5, Mahtomedi 4

[BBB]

The EP/H-town game was played in slush so I am not going to put a lot of stock in that one or say class A is as good as AA because an A school came within a goal of a AA school in a game that was difficult to make a 10 ft pass for either side. Is that the best example you could come up with? Almost as good as the one below comparing breck to lakeville south.
I am saying as whole A is not as good as AA.

[MNHockey75]

The EP/H-town game was played in slush so I am not going to put a lot of stock in that one or say class A is as good as AA because an A school came within a goal of a AA school in a game that was difficult to make a 10 ft pass for either side. Is that the best example you could come up with? Almost as good as the one below comparing breck to lakeville south.
I am saying as whole A is not as good as AA.

No one is arguing that. That's the point of the two class system.

And um...Lakeville South beat Burnsville, Apple Valley, Hopkins, Cretin by 5, Lakeville N twice (who tied and beat Jefferson), and Century 9-1. They also held their own against Eagan and Eden Prairie. After they beat Lakeville North later this week, they will be pesky at state.

[BBB]

I believe he WAS arguing that by saying "every bit as good." That to me means scores, depth, talent, and A's #1 team compared to AA's #1 and A's #20 team to AA's #20...that's just me though.