NTDP Tryouts - 2012

[BadgerBob82]

Is there really a defined goal or purpose of the NTDP? I just don't see the purpose of the program in light of the fact programs across the country already seem to meet the needs of elite hockey players. To me the program seems like an outdated USSR model? Job security and bloated use of USA Hockey member dues.

[xy]

I believe one of the goals is to provide training and development for top players who might eventually be good enough to represent the US in international competition, but who come from nontraditional hockey areas where it is more difficult to find competition that will challenge them. As hockey's grown in America, nowadays many of the best American players don't come exclusively from Minnesota, Massachusetts, or Michigan, as used to be the case. If you doubt this check the rosters for recent US world junior and olympic teams.

The top players from those nontraditional areas - think of Seth Jones from Dallas, Nic Kerdiles from L.A., and Jason Zucker from Las Vegas - are going to have to move anyway at a young age if they're going to keep playing hockey. So going to Ann Arbor makes sense for them, and for USA Hockey. The decision is harder for Minnesota kids, as it's possible for them to stay at home and still have access to top-level hockey that will let them keep developing.

[hockey59]

Is there really a defined goal or purpose of the NTDP? I just don't see the purpose of the program in light of the fact programs across the country already seem to meet the needs of elite hockey players. To me the program seems like an outdated USSR model? Job security and bloated use of USA Hockey member dues.

Seems to me (in a nut-shell) USA Hockey's goal is to do well in (and win) or finish high in International Tournaments by having a team train together to accomplish this. For the player, it involves accelerating their development....in terms of their hockey skills, mental approach to the game and physical strength by training as a team with other top players of the same age. Unless a players ultimate (and passionate) goal is to play in the NHL...not sure playing in Ann Arbor is worth leaving home at age 16...especially if you live in MN.

[JDUBBS1280]

The NTDP's main goal is to get players drafted as high as possible. Like the CHL, USA Hockey gets $$$ from the NHL. The amount the get depends on the talent they produce.

Problem is, the NTDP isn't "producing" talent as much as it is "showcasing" it for NHL teams. They cherry pick the players it feels it can best market. These players are usually already top talents.

This was one of Herb Brooks's biggest criticisms of the national program. He felt, as I do, that they should broaden the number of players selected (maybe a tiered system) and work on developing the fringe NHL talent.

[BadgerBob82]

I guess my point is that in the old USSR, they gathered up all the gifted athletes at a certain age, and through the "Army" trained them to be hockey players. Is that needed in USA hockey? Might be better sources, but I had been looking at hockeydb . com. When looking at the large numbers of players that have attended NTDP over the past 15 years, it just seems the number of kids that go beyond college is not that great. And the numbers that go to the NHL seems low. For instance, looking at the 2011 World Jr Team. 14 came from NTDP, 8 did not. If all 22 played 1-2 years of NTDP, then I could see the purpose. Also, appears they play in the USHL and NAHL? Why does USA hockey have to field teams in those leagues?

I have not looked into Olympic team players coming from NTDP. But, the question would be has the NTDP improved USA success on the international stage? Are they better at developing players than places like Shattuck, US High School or USHL?

Or is this nepotism at it's finest? USA Hockey has always taken care of it's own. How in the world did Moe Mantha have such a long history playing for USA teams? Then look at the adminstration of USA Hockey. How did a guy like Jim Johannson climb to the top of the USA Hockey adminstration? Ken Martel? Go to the USA website and you'll see the list goes on. I think the NTDP seems like justification of collecting USA Hockey membership dues. But the question remains, do "we" get bang for the buck?

[JDUBBS1280]

I guess my point is that in the old USSR, they gathered up all the gifted athletes at a certain age, and through the "Army" trained them to be hockey players. Is that needed in USA hockey? Might be better sources, but I had been looking at hockeydb . com. When looking at the large numbers of players that have attended NTDP over the past 15 years, it just seems the number of kids that go beyond college is not that great. And the numbers that go to the NHL seems low. For instance, looking at the 2011 World Jr Team. 14 came from NTDP, 8 did not. If all 22 played 1-2 years of NTDP, then I could see the purpose. Also, appears they play in the USHL and NAHL? Why does USA hockey have to field teams in those leagues?

I have not looked into Olympic team players coming from NTDP. But, the question would be has the NTDP improved USA success on the international stage? Are they better at developing players than places like Shattuck, US High School or USHL?

Or is this nepotism at it's finest? USA Hockey has always taken care of it's own. How in the world did Moe Mantha have such a long history playing for USA teams? Then look at the adminstration of USA Hockey. How did a guy like Jim Johannson climb to the top of the USA Hockey adminstration? Ken Martel? Go to the USA website and you'll see the list goes on. I think the NTDP seems like justification of collecting USA Hockey membership dues. But the question remains, do "we" get bang for the buck?

The reason we have a NTDP is so that USA Hockey can showcase the top players in this country, thus maximizing their draft position.

[BadgerBob82]

JDUB: Your reason is not that given byUSA Hockey. But maybe you are "unofficially" right? I was reading the current year program bios. Don't think I've read "in his first year coaching..." more in my life.

[JDUBBS1280]

JDUB: Your reason is not that given byUSA Hockey. But maybe you are "unofficially" right? I was reading the current year program bios. Don't think I've read "in his first year coaching..." more in my life.

I don't think they are going to come right out and say "to make more money", but it's hard to dispute that maximizing NHL subsidies isn't a major factor.

[Sats81]

JDUB: Your reason is not that given byUSA Hockey. But maybe you are "unofficially" right? I was reading the current year program bios. Don't think I've read "in his first year coaching..." more in my life.

I don't think they are going to come right out and say "to make more money", but it's hard to dispute that maximizing NHL subsidies isn't a major factor.

Yes, exactly. Bottom line is typically all that matters.

[blueliner5]

Players from MN that will be at the tryout camp this year: Paul Bittner, Shane Gersich, Tyler Nanne, Jack Glover, Ryan Collins, Jack Walker, & Chase Perry

I would have to think Chase Perry will have a good chance to be on the roster. This would not be good for Andover as there back up goalie (Junior) did not see much action this year and I could be wrong, but there "A" Bantam goalie is a girl and she will be on the Girls High School team next year. They may be feeling the pain next year even though they return most of there team

[LetsPlayHockey22]

Players from MN that will be at the tryout camp this year: Paul Bittner, Shane Gersich, Tyler Nanne, Jack Glover, Ryan Collins, Jack Walker, & Chase Perry

I would have to think Chase Perry will have a good chance to be on the roster. This would not be good for Andover as there back up goalie (Junior) did not see much action this year and I could be wrong, but there "A" Bantam goalie is a girl and she will be on the Girls High School team next year. They may be feeling the pain next year even though they return most of there team

I know the chances are slim and this is just me being old fashion, but with the strides their program made this year it would be great to see him stick around at least one more season before departing for junior hockey or whatever he decides to do.

[black sheep]

I might be in the minority on this...but...

I think the ntdp is a good program. The USA is more relevant in world competition than it has ever been. There needs to be a national development program. That's not to say every kid in ntdp is going to play nhl, there are to many variables that lead into that.

[JDUBBS1280]

I might be in the minority on this...but...

I think the ntdp is a good program. The USA is more relevant in world competition than it has ever been. There needs to be a national development program. That's not to say every kid in ntdp is going to play nhl, there are to many variables that lead into that.

The fact that the USA is more relevant on the world stage than ever before has MUCH more to do with the fact that hockey has grown significantly in this country. Especially in the non-traditional markets. And the NHL expanding into non-traditional markets has MUCH more to do with that.

I'm not knocking the NTDP (though I do think they spend too much resources on a small group of players), but it's primary goal is to get players drafted into the NHL, not help us compete on an international stage or grow the sport in this country.

[Gopher Blog]

Main thing that has bothered me about the NTDP is the way they promote their development of players. They sort of seem to take more credit than they deserve. Let's be honest, they are plucking many of the top kids that have had their skills developed by prior programs. It's not like they take a bunch of average players and make them great. I could see them hyping things then. They add to what's been done but it annoys me the way they sometimes give them impression of taking the bulk of the credit (and some media like blogger Chris Peters seem to credit them too much as well).

[xy]

I do think we need to keep in mind that there can be several "goals" for a program like the NTDP, not all of which will be publicly stated, and most of which are interrelated. Do they want to get kids drafted? Of course, but not necessarily in and of itself; that means they're apparently doing a good job with the players they have, which will help them attract future players (and attract money). Having players drafted also means American teams will likely be more competitive internationally, which I believe is the main stated goal (I'm not disputing that they may have other, nonstated goals).

And I completely agree with Hammy that they seem to take, and are given, too much credit for development. I don't doubt they help most players they have, but they don't get players until 16, and you can't make a hockey player at that age - the millions of repetitions they've had prior to that point are what have allowed the players to become world-class players.

The other thing that people seem to forget is the uinavoidable inexactitude of their selection process. People like Chris Peters, whose work I generally like, seem to disregard any American players who don't make it to Ann Arbor, when the truth is that for any birth year, the 20 best players at age 16 almost certainly will not be the same 20 four years later. Kids get hurt, mature later, lose their passion for the game. And they don't necessarily get the best kids at age 16; they do their best but it's not an exact science.

[JDUBBS1280]

Main thing that has bothered me about the NTDP is the way they promote their development of players. They sort of seem to take more credit than they deserve. Let's be honest, they are plucking many of the top kids that have had their skills developed by prior programs. It's not like they take a bunch of average players and make them great. I could see them hyping things then. They add to what's been done but it annoys me the way they sometimes give them impression of taking the bulk of the credit (and some media like blogger Chris Peters seem to credit them too much as well).

My main criticism as well. As for Chris, he's a nice guy, but I think he lacks perspective.

[ACTUALFORMERPLAYER]

7 of the 22 guys on the 2010 Olympic team played for the USNTDP.
It has been around long enough (since 1996) that if they really were producing the best players the numbers should be better. Rafalski and Tim Thomas are older than the USNTDP prgram window but would have never been invited anyway. Both guys were not heavily recruited to college and toiled in the minors after college. Those two guys developed themselves without fleecing youth hockey players for training cash.
An interesting subplot is USA Hockey's crown jewel is the USNTDP. They are also heavily involved in selecting the Olympic roster. It would be very hard to argue against the inclusion of any of the seven in 2010 (E. Johnson, J. Johnson, Kane, Kesler, Kessel, Komisarek, Suter) but in 2014 will they lean towards their guys to help justify their program?

[JDUBBS1280]

7 of the 22 guys on the 2010 Olympic team played for the USNTDP.
It has been around long enough (since 1996) that if they really were producing the best players the numbers should be better. Rafalski and Tim Thomas are older than the USNTDP prgram window but would have never been invited anyway. Both guys were not heavily recruited to college and toiled in the minors after college. Those two guys developed themselves without fleecing youth hockey players for training cash.
An interesting subplot is USA Hockey's crown jewel is the USNTDP. They are also heavily involved in selecting the Olympic roster. It would be very hard to argue against the inclusion of any of the seven in 2010 (E. Johnson, J. Johnson, Kane, Kesler, Kessel, Komisarek, Suter) but in 2014 will they lean towards their guys to help justify their program?

Well said, and good question. In the end, it's all about $$$. I wouldn't be surprised at all too see them use more of "their guys" to increase their exposure and the exposure of the program.

[Sats81]

7 of the 22 guys on the 2010 Olympic team played for the USNTDP.
It has been around long enough (since 1996) that if they really were producing the best players the numbers should be better. Rafalski and Tim Thomas are older than the USNTDP prgram window but would have never been invited anyway. Both guys were not heavily recruited to college and toiled in the minors after college. Those two guys developed themselves without fleecing youth hockey players for training cash.
An interesting subplot is USA Hockey's crown jewel is the USNTDP. They are also heavily involved in selecting the Olympic roster. It would be very hard to argue against the inclusion of any of the seven in 2010 (E. Johnson, J. Johnson, Kane, Kesler, Kessel, Komisarek, Suter) but in 2014 will they lean towards their guys to help justify their program?

Very true. All valid points.

[hockeyjeanious]

"7 of the 22 guys on the 2010 Olympic team played for the USNTDP"
Great point. Developement comes in many stages, its also how bad a player wants to succeed. Lately its hard because players are being passed up for ones who should not be part of USNTDP.
This program is all about the names and who you know. Although, yes there may be some great skilled players, there is definately a group that is passed over for different reasons.
I have watched a lot of the players that were picked this year, and I too, like Brooks, feel like I need to walk away from following these players progress, because the proof is shown on the ice.
To USNTDP, read this, watch the games and stats, then read the names and pick....

[WCHBlog]

7 of the 22 guys on the 2010 Olympic team played for the USNTDP.

Only 12 of the players on that team were first round NHL draft picks, and NHL teams have the advantage of picking kids two full seasons after the NTDP, and the advantage of seeing them play against better competition. Are there problems with the scouting departments of every NHL team too?

It's pretty tough to argue with the success the program has had on the ice, or their success in developing players for the NHL draft. Look at last year's draft when a bunch of the top players that turned the NTDP down fell to the 4th and 5th rounds, while the NTDP had three first round picks. This year looks like it's going to be more of the same with a couple NTDP kids projected to go in the first round, while kids that turned them down like AJ Michaelson and Nick Ebert have practically fallen off the map.

People whine about the money the program costs, but relatively speaking, it doesn't cost a whole lot, at least it didn't as of a few years ago. I can't imagine moving to the USHL increased costs all that much. It's not like you're going to get any more bang for your buck elsewhere, and in all honesty, the extra dollar or two in USA Hockey fees per player is pretty irrelevant against what it actually costs to play hockey.

[Yakunin]

anybody know what the cost is to go the Development Program?

[nobama]

2 out of the pack is enough I just looked at the list and See that the 2 got away from them at the 96 level this time around. They do have some nice 4th and 5th rounders though for the 2014 class.

[JDUBBS1280]

7 of the 22 guys on the 2010 Olympic team played for the USNTDP.

Only 12 of the players on that team were first round NHL draft picks, and NHL teams have the advantage of picking kids two full seasons after the NTDP, and the advantage of seeing them play against better competition. Are there problems with the scouting departments of every NHL team too?

It's pretty tough to argue with the success the program has had on the ice, or their success in developing players for the NHL draft. Look at last year's draft when a bunch of the top players that turned the NTDP down fell to the 4th and 5th rounds, while the NTDP had three first round picks. This year looks like it's going to be more of the same with a couple NTDP kids projected to go in the first round, while kids that turned them down like AJ Michaelson and Nick Ebert have practically fallen off the map.

People whine about the money the program costs, but relatively speaking, it doesn't cost a whole lot, at least it didn't as of a few years ago. I can't imagine moving to the USHL increased costs all that much. It's not like you're going to get any more bang for your buck elsewhere, and in all honesty, the extra dollar or two in USA Hockey fees per player is pretty irrelevant against what it actually costs to play hockey.

My God, seriously, they pick the top kids in the country. A vast majority of those kids are going to play in the NHL and get drafted high regardless of whether they play in this program or take a different development route.

The NTDP is very good at marketing it's players to the NHL, but they are NOT the end all in player development. So please, save it.

[JDUBBS1280]

7 of the 22 guys on the 2010 Olympic team played for the USNTDP.

Only 12 of the players on that team were first round NHL draft picks, and NHL teams have the advantage of picking kids two full seasons after the NTDP, and the advantage of seeing them play against better competition. Are there problems with the scouting departments of every NHL team too?

It's pretty tough to argue with the success the program has had on the ice, or their success in developing players for the NHL draft. Look at last year's draft when a bunch of the top players that turned the NTDP down fell to the 4th and 5th rounds, while the NTDP had three first round picks. This year looks like it's going to be more of the same with a couple NTDP kids projected to go in the first round, while kids that turned them down like AJ Michaelson and Nick Ebert have practically fallen off the map.

People whine about the money the program costs, but relatively speaking, it doesn't cost a whole lot, at least it didn't as of a few years ago. I can't imagine moving to the USHL increased costs all that much. It's not like you're going to get any more bang for your buck elsewhere, and in all honesty, the extra dollar or two in USA Hockey fees per player is pretty irrelevant against what it actually costs to play hockey.

My God, seriously, they pick the top kids in the country. A vast majority of those kids are going to play in the NHL and get drafted high regardless of whether they play in this program or take a different development route.

The NTDP is very good at marketing it's players to the NHL, but they are NOT the end all in player development. So please, save it.