AA Preseason Rankings 2012-2013

tonkafan77 · Post by **tonkafan77** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:44 pm

We'll see how Minnetonka and Eagan fare against each other pretty early on in the season (December 4th) to settle that argument quickly.

tonkafan77 · Post by **tonkafan77** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:46 pm

Another team to watch out for this year would be Chanhassen. Yes, they are still a young team but I think they have the capability of pulling off a couple of surprises during the year. They could shake things up a little bit in 2AA; only time will tell.

Wallyworld · Post by **Wallyworld** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:54 pm

Great Job on your rankings. As a passionate HS hockey fan, I appreciate others who have the same love of the game and act on it. Nice to see that it has spurred some lively discussion as well..

As a Hill fan I'm glad you share my view about the talent up front with Lavalle, Brown, & Slattery (could be as good a line as there is by end of year - and yes I am aware of what BSM & Cloquet have) plus Tyler Funk who made the national camp on the WI team joining Zach Mills, who played as a freshman, on the second line.. People talk about the depth of teams like STA but you have to have a few big scorers as well. If the Elite League is a predictor, Hill had 4 forwards in the league and all 4 had more points than STA's highest scorer and STA had at least 4 forwards in the league as well.. That says a lot to me about the quality at Hill and they aren't that far behind in terms of depth because Lechner usually only plays 3 lines come tourney time anyways. So if the 3rd line can hold their own, Hill will be a contender come March.

Also, Defense returns 4 plus Soph. Jacob Olson, who made the U15's, & should add depth... And of course Dugas is one of the 5 best goalies in state.. Lechner will have this group rolling by post-season.. Tough schedule though so they may drop a little in the rankings throughout the year but this pays off at tourney time. In fact, Hill plays 6 of your top 15 plus 3 of your next 10 - plus they play St. Thomas twice (and two Scwanns Cup games TBD based on results against Tonka). So that's like half of the schedule against top 20 teams… BSM is an early game but the results against Edina & Tonka should be telling.

Speaking of Lechner, how he didn't win coach of the year is beyond me. With all of the known talent that Benilde had at the beginning of the season, coach Pauly (sp?) had a cakewalk of a job taking that group to the finals compared to Lechner who was having players change positions at start of the year because they lost so much and were so thin at D. Look at the all-tourney team - representing Hill was D Becker who was a forward the year before along with F Conrad Sampair who had 6 goals as a Jr. Plus kids like (soph) Willie Brown who were new to the program and started the year as a third line unknown quantity and yet ended the year on the first line while putting up 17 reg season goals. Not to mention Charlie Sampair who, like his cousin, had 6 goals as a Jr and then he puts up over 30 while being a Mr Hockey Finalist…So Lechner got talent where there was little on paper and he gets the right mix to bring out the best in his kids while also getting them to play for each other. He will do it again this year, with guys emerging that aren't even on the radar yet….. Burnsville visits our shed for the opener on the 29th and Eagan and BSM follow shortly after so it should be interesting.

Thanks again for your rankings, Karl. Your time and effort are appreciated. By the way do you ever publish your pre-season and end of seasons rankings together in order to see the surprises etc during the year? It would be interesting to see your 2011-12 pre- and post- rankings… Or is there a site where we could find your previous polls?

almostashappy · Post by **almostashappy** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:21 pm

tonkafan77 wrote:We'll see how Minnetonka and Eagan fare against each other pretty early on in the season (December 4th) to settle that argument quickly.

You betcha. So why are they playing this game at Pagel again? Hill didn't seem to have a problem traveling South of the River this year to complete the home and home.

Slap Shot · Post by **Slap Shot** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:38 pm

almostashappy wrote:
tonkafan77 wrote:We'll see how Minnetonka and Eagan fare against each other pretty early on in the season (December 4th) to settle that argument quickly.
You betcha. So why are they playing this game at Pagel again?

Because they already had NC games at Apple Valley, Maple Grove, Roseau, Stillwater, BSM, Duluth East and Blaine?

Post by **karl(east)** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:39 pm

Wallyworld wrote:Thanks again for your rankings, Karl. Your time and effort are appreciated. By the way do you ever publish your pre-season and end of seasons rankings together in order to see the surprises etc during the year? It would be interesting to see your 2011-12 pre- and post- rankings… Or is there a site where we could find your previous polls?

I've never published them together, but in the postseason rankings I usually spend a little time comparing the two to see if there are any patterns that I missed in certain teams. Here are last year's preseason, pre-sections, and postseason rankings:

http://mnhockeyprospects.com/2011/11/25 ... gs-102511/

http://mnhockeyprospects.com/2012/02/19 ... s-2192012/

http://mnhockeyprospects.com/2012/03/12 ... ings-2012/

All of my rankings threads are available in the depths of this forum, too, though it might take some searching to find them all.

People who've been reading this forum for a while have heard this from me before, but I'm always impressed with the job Lechner does with his teams. Sure, he has a lot of talent to work with, but in the past five seasons, Hill has:
-won a state championship that few expected them to win, upsetting the top two teams in the state in the process
-rebounded from the dismissal of four top players midseason to make State and gave eventual champion Eden Prairie its toughest postseason game, losing in OT
-took #1-ranked Minnetonka to 4 OTs before losing in the State semis
-been upset by White Bear Lake
-made it to the championship game in what seemed to be a rebuilding year
The programs that are perennial favorites (Edina, Duluth East, Minnetonka) seem to get upset more often than they get it done. Under Lechner, Hill bucks that trend.

Also, the answer to the "South of the River championship" question is Apple Valley in 96.

And thanks for the tip on Chanhassen...they may be one of those teams that sneaks into the top 25 if enough goes right.

BodyShots · Post by **BodyShots** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:27 am

Wallyworld wrote:So Lechner got talent where there was little on paper

You have got to be kidding me..

Go check your papers. I think you will find that every kid on HM 1st, 2nd and even maybe 3rd line were all studs on their youth bantam "A" teams. While most teams are filling their rosters with kids that never made an "A" team growing up, HM is deciding which "A" players to move up from their JV team.

Don't get me wrong. I think Lech is a very good coach and he has a GREAT assistant coaching his defense. But you can't tell me he is doing more, with less talent than any other coach at a perennial power house.

scorekeeper · Post by **scorekeeper** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:37 am

Slap Shot wrote:
scorekeeper wrote:Maybe not deeper than Edina, but yes, deeper than Tonka IMO
Why? I'd argue Eagan lost more scoring - for instance Zajac, N. Kuchera, Merchant, Wolfe, Mason and May compared with Lettieri, Rothstein, Baskin and Prochno for Tonka. Tonka returns Coatta, Thie, Ramsey, Vannelli, Bader and the higher scoring Schuldt and Eagan returns Glienke, Willox, and W Peterson. In net Ciaccio played 695 min in net while Lindgren played 467. I wouldn't even hazard a guess how it will all play out on ice but on paper Eagan is clearly not definitively deeper in returning experience.

Iunderstand what you are saying and I think many will agree with your assessment on paper. I am seeing something different on the ice though.

with all of those great players that you mention from Eagan, it seems ice time was in short supply for the great players they have had waiting in the wings. Nick Wolf is a great example of a great player who didn't get a lot of varsity ice last season BECAUSE of the overwhelming talent ahead of him, but he made his own mark at the National Tournament and will easily step in and reload on the Eagan blue line this year. A guy like Will Peterson had to move to fwd last season due to the depth at D , but now steps into the blue line as well and Eagan picks up where they left off.

There are other high quality players that have been waiting for an opportunity. Look for names like Schultz, Lowe, Elsenheimer, Smallidge, Muck, Lindgren to seize the opportunity, and others, plus the move ins. Add those guys to established players like Gleinke, Will ox and Peterson and these guys are deep. There are a lot of great players here who were impact guys in the fall sessions.

I could be over-estimating, but they look like a group with top 4 potential. Should be fun. Really looking forward to the Tonka game.

almostashappy · Post by **almostashappy** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:19 pm

scorekeeper wrote:..with all of those great players that you mention from Eagan, it seems ice time was in short supply for the great players they have had waiting in the wings.....There are a lot of great players here who were impact guys in the fall sessions.

I could be over-estimating, but they look like a group with top 4 potential. Should be fun. Really looking forward to the Tonka game.

Good to see that Happy and I will be sharing Wildcat cheerleading duties with scorekeeper this season. $\:D/$ $\:D/$ $\:D/$

Unfortunately, I'm not as excited about tomorrow's scrimmages at EP now that I know the actual match-ups...Eagan will scrimmage Jefferson, Blaine, and Centennial. Makes sense, given that they scrimmaged the other three teams last year (EP, DE, PL)...but I was hoping to semi-quantitatively stress-test Karl's preseason rankings.

Slap Shot · Post by **Slap Shot** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:03 pm

scorekeeper - don't get me wrong (and you probably didn't) as I think it should be a good game and I didn't want to convey I think Tonka will be better but I do think Tonka returns more of the two from last year's respective varsity rosters and I know that the Tonka JV did extremely well. Not sure about Bantams or transfers and Eagan may very well have some great talent coming in. I just thought I'd add my $0.02 that I don't see a depth disparity at this stage. Should be fun to watch either way.

scorekeeper · Post by **scorekeeper** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:15 am

Slap Shot wrote:Should be fun to watch either way.

agreed, I'll go out on a limb here and call it a 3-3 early season tie

HappyHockeyFan · Post by **HappyHockeyFan** » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:42 am

almostashappy wrote:
scorekeeper wrote:..with all of those great players that you mention from Eagan, it seems ice time was in short supply for the great players they have had waiting in the wings.....There are a lot of great players here who were impact guys in the fall sessions.

I could be over-estimating, but they look like a group with top 4 potential. Should be fun. Really looking forward to the Tonka game.
Good to see that Happy and I will be sharing Wildcat cheerleading duties with scorekeeper this season. $\:D/$ $\:D/$ $\:D/$

Unfortunately, I'm not as excited about tomorrow's scrimmages at EP now that I know the actual match-ups...Eagan will scrimmage Jefferson, Blaine, and Centennial. Makes sense, given that they scrimmaged the other three teams last year (EP, DE, PL)...but I was hoping to semi-quantitatively stress-test Karl's preseason rankings.

Always room on the Wildcat bandwagon, welcome aboard Scorekeeper !!

green4 · Post by **green4** » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:17 pm

interesting little spin to the Edina team, defense was gonna be there problem and i thought i saw a comment about hatch and anderson and i said they should get cut and younger players will take there spot well...
neither was cut, one sophomore is on D and then the kid who played for the northern lights made it so it looks like

Reno Nelson
Hatch Anderson
Foley Hull

i later learned the player i thought to take there place has had to many concussions and could not play this year, unfortunately
im a little more nervous now for the hornets as only one player (Rose) was cut and instead two average JV players were brought up but one sophomore was also brought up and i have heard he is pretty talented

Post by **karl(east)** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:09 pm

FollowThePuck's effort: http://www.minnesota-high-school-hockey ... -boys.html

Looks like the Hub is just using the LPH rankings this year instead of doing its own?

Napalm187 · Post by **Napalm187** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:52 pm

Surprised to see Edina roster. Hopefully Bafata is happy with all the Seniors Giles kept. Whatever happened to Oesterreich & Mismash? Thought they'd be on Varsity for sure. Played mostly varsity last year and woulda been Juniors. Anyone know who these guys Giles is taking at Edina this year?

Survey · Post by **Survey** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:29 pm

Napalm187 wrote:Surprised to see Edina roster. Hopefully Bafata is happy with all the Seniors Giles kept. Whatever happened to Oesterreich & Mismash? Thought they'd be on Varsity for sure. Played mostly varsity last year and woulda been Juniors. Anyone know who these guys Giles is taking at Edina this year?

Both on Bantam AA team.

Napalm187 · Post by **Napalm187** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:16 pm

Their older brothers. Parker is a Jr. and the older brother (can't remember if it's Alec or Hunter) is a Jr. They played some third and fourth line on hornets last years as Sophs and they are Juniors now.

Post by **karl(east)** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:29 pm

Napalm187 wrote:Surprised to see Edina roster. Hopefully Bafata is happy with all the Seniors Giles kept.

Without knowing too many details, I'd speculate that he went with more seniors because he believes he can win it all this year. Last year was almost certainly going to be a rebuilding year, so he threw a lot of younger players into the fire so that they'd gain experience. Now that they have a very real shot at a state title, Giles probably thinks he is better served by filling out the lower lines with a bunch of older kids with less upside but more experience.

Still, I am somewhat surprised to only see three sophomores (one of whom played varsity last year) off a very strong Bantam team last year--it just shows how absurdly deep this program is.

green4 · Post by **green4** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:46 pm

Napalm187 wrote:Their older brothers. Parker is a Jr. and the older brother (can't remember if it's Alec or Hunter) is a Jr. They played some third and fourth line on hornets last years as Sophs and they are Juniors now.

mishmash is a sophomore but was to old for bantams last year and played mostly Jv as a 9th grader, he was a swing line player along with the other player

Puck to the head · Post by **Puck to the head** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:36 am

Not sure who owns or writes this blog, but interesting summary of "top ten".

http://www.westerncollegehockeyblog.com ... son-top-10

almostashappy · Post by **almostashappy** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:45 am

Puck to the head wrote:Not sure who owns or writes this blog, but interesting summary of "top ten".

http://www.westerncollegehockeyblog.com ... son-top-10

That site also has a new opinion piece that takes a pessimistic view on the long-term viability of community-based hockey programs in MN. Worth a read as long as you are there looking at their rankings.

http://www.westerncollegehockeyblog.com ... ool-hockey

SuperStar · Post by **SuperStar** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:13 pm

Not sure who writes this either, but I wouldn't pay too much attention.

What_Im_talkin_bout · Post by **What_Im_talkin_bout** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:52 pm

IMHO wrote:
Puck to the head wrote:Not sure who owns or writes this blog, but interesting summary of "top ten".

http://www.westerncollegehockeyblog.com ... son-top-10
That would be none other than Scorekeeper, father of "Newcomer to Watch: Freshman Jesse Gabrielle is a Canadian, by way of the Osseo-Maple Grove bantam program <Northern Edge Hockey School (for about a tri after the OMG Bantam season), Edina Bantam B1, the Machine, Russell Stover 97 Stars, etc..."

I'd say the Canadian/WHL leanings would explain his opinions.

axe to grind or just your "humble opinion"?

bafata88 · Post by **bafata88** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:10 pm

"Surprised to see Edina roster. Hopefully Bafata is happy with all the Seniors Giles kept."

Oh, I'm happy.

This is what Giles should've done the last two years. Not that I'm a hockey genius mind like Curt Giles, but it just seems to make so much sense to have some significant senior leadership on a team like Edina's. They are so deep with talent and seniors bring stability and swagger to a team. And there are plenty of people [fair minded folk] who believe there were specific players in the class of 2012 who would've helped the Hornets the past two seasons.

Two years ago I felt his roster moves then were made with this seaon in mind; and when he cut all those seniors last year, for me it was confirmed. He gave up on the class of 12 so he could develop younger players. Yes, yes, I know Edina still had success, but they did not win a state championship these last two years. And I'm telling you, if you really care about Edina hockey, the standard used is winning that final game at the X, not just getting there. Edina did not win it all and Giles, in the meantime, crushed the hopes of some guys who had every reason to believe they earned their place to play for such a great program during their senior years.

Yes, I believe with the significant number of seniors on the roster this year, they have their best chance to win the state championship. Way to go Curt!

JV State Champs · Post by **JV State Champs** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:58 pm

Karl why do you list the "Next Ten" and then put what those teams rankings would be in () later on? Why not just rank the top 25?

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

AA Preseason Rankings 2012-2013

Great Job Karl

Re: Great Job Karl

Re: Great Job Karl

Summary of top ten HS teams from Western college Hockey

Re: Summary of top ten HS teams from Western college Hockey

Re: Summary of top ten HS teams from Western college Hockey