Best Rochester Team

[BadgerBob82]

Roy: Don't forget to qualify "success" at the Class A level. To say having close games with Red Wing or New Prague is a good thing. Those should be 8-1 blow-outs for the best team in Rochester!

[Roy01]

Roy: Don't forget to qualify "success" at the Class A level. To say having close games with Red Wing or New Prague is a good thing. Those should be 8-1 blow-outs for the best team in Rochester!

Well, at least they're having success... I think it's a bit more than can be said for the other three schools currently. New Prague has come along in years; Red Wing has hit a bit of a bump since George Nemanich stepped down... The regular season score was a blowout last time they played...I do believe Red Wing lost 8-0 in December last year. In sectional play, it was 5-3. If you are going to say Red Wing should had lost to the other schools, the last times they played (scrimmages and regular season) the Wingers beat Century 4-0, tied JM 2-2, and Red Wing beat Mayo 3-1.

Now, Red Wing, MN, does not set the bar for Class A Hockey state wide, but if this doesn't help clarify that you (BadgerBob) are trying to say the other schools are better, I'm not sure what will. Fact is if an 8-1 blowout from Rochester is the expectation, the other three can't even manage a win...

As for New Prague, their meetings with Lourdes have been close. Still not the "8-1" mark set by yourself...

Lastly, once again, you wish to speak down to the "success" of the Eagles. If they have issues with making it out of Section 1A, why would they be in 1AA?? A jump doesn't make sense. I'm as tired of the private school run in Class A as anyone else can be, but if they are struggling to get by these teams: 1. It does not mean they aren't better than the other Rochester schools, and 2. It does not mean a move to Class AA would be sufficient. I feel they could hold their own in AA, but I don't see it necessary to happen.

[The Talon]

Umm-just a brief commentary/statistic on one common opponent from last year badger---

Red Wing 4 Mayo 0
Lourdes 8 RW 0
Lourdes 5 RW 2-Section Semis

We can go on and on---Century had 1-2 good AA teams the past 10 yrs---lourdes had about 6-also lets not forget RLHS had to play STA for section final 2 or three years in there and lost by 1 goal---STA arguable are better than any of the 2 lakeville schools year in and year out.......

[BadgerBob82]

Talon: Relax, I didn't say LHS is the worst team in Rochester. Year to year teams change. One year Mayo is better. The next Century. JM has not been the best team in Rochester for many years. While it's possible LHS may have had the best team in Rochester at some point over the years, I maintain Mayo or Century has been better than LHS.

[BadgerBob82]

Bottom line. LHS is best Class A team in Rochester.

Want anything more than that, step up to AA.

[PeterDenton]

Bottom line. LHS is best Class A team in Rochester.

Want anything more than that, step up to AA.

Anything more than that? I don't think LHS really cares if BadgerBob annoints them or not. They could care less about your approval. Bottom line is facts dont lie, they've been the ones still playing in march, making it to the X the past four years and bringing home trophies to their school while century and mayo have been either watching in those comfy green chairs live or on their tvs at home. As of now that's the way it will probably be yet again this year. I do hope one of the public school teams finally does make it back to state, the year LHS and Century both made it was a pretty special thing to see,great for Rochester as a city and great for southern mn hockey as a whole. But over these last several years Lourdes has been the best.

[SEMNHOCKEYFAN]

Someone correct me if im wrong but the last time lourdes played mayo which i beleve was many years ago.....didnt things get really chippy?

[HockeyRoch]

BadgerBob -

We're going to have to agree to disagree. You have to use real information. Your arguments are not even factual so they shouldn't be taken into consideration. When has Lourdes lost to the public schools in scrimmages? When did their administration say no to going AA? When were the teams they play any worse than all of the Section 1-AA teams?

You talk about all of these easy, no-talent, cakewalk teams that Lourdes plays in Section 1-A, yet the other high schools in Rochester get beat by these same teams while Lourdes doesn't. Lourdes would do just as good, if not better playing in Section 1-AA. Honestly, when has Lakeville even been that good.

Get a clue buddy.

[SEMNHOCKEYFAN]

Century lost again tonight 6-0 to lakeville north so far this season the Panthers have been outscored 16-0 through out 3 games

From what i hear they are a young team but still should the panthers be worried?

[hawkhockey]

BadgerBob -

We're going to have to agree to disagree. You have to use real information. Your arguments are not even factual so they shouldn't be taken into consideration. When has Lourdes lost to the public schools in scrimmages? When did their administration say no to going AA? When were the teams they play any worse than all of the Section 1-AA teams?

You talk about all of these easy, no-talent, cakewalk teams that Lourdes plays in Section 1-A, yet the other high schools in Rochester get beat by these same teams while Lourdes doesn't. Lourdes would do just as good, if not better playing in Section 1-AA. Honestly, when has Lakeville even been that good.

Get a clue buddy.

South was the third best team in AA hockey according to last years's state tournament where they beat Duluth East who I recall being a very good team. They also happened to possess last year's Mr. Hockey winner. So last year was when Lakeville South was good.

[BadgerBob82]

LHS has had very good teams over the years. They would have beat JM every year. Some years (like this year) Century. Other years Mayo. But I don't think LHS has ever had (what the title of this thread is) The Best Team in Rochester. But they play at the Class A level so we will never know.

Class A hockey in Section 1 usually is made up of 1 line teams and a solid goalie. When Section 1 teams make it to State, they get killed in their 1st game and go straight to Mariucci. (Which is why LHS holds the scoring record at Mariucci)

As for Section 1AA. Lakeville schools have dominated in recent history. Some years the seeding allows a Rochester school to make the finals. Many years the Lakeville schools are 1-2 seeds and meet in the Finals. But I can't think of one LHS team that had the depth to beat a Lakeville school.

Maybe LHS could put some of this to rest by scheduling North and South each year. If they sweep them, that would shut people like me up! But, they avoid scheduling them, so it keeps the door wide open.

[grandmeadowhockeyfan]

Lourdes could step up and play lakeville, yes
They could. Also the other rochester schools could play
Breck, sta, Blake, saint cloud cathedral like Lourdes does. Then there
Would be more common opponents.

[BadgerBob82]

Yep, so if say Mayo only loses to STA 8-2 then they would be better than LHS? Of if Century beats La Sewer-Henderson-St. Peter by only say 10-0 they would be worse than LHS?

[HockeyRoch]

There are common opponents that can be looked at throughout the year to gauge who is the better team. Lourdes doesn't have to play Lakeville, as that is only one specific team, and Mayo, Century or JM don't have to schedule Breck, STA, etc.

Here are two games to look at for comparison, Albert Lea and Mankato West . Look at the scores and spread between winners and losers. This will shed some light.

Lourdes obviously wants to play as good of competition as they can and that shows in their schedule. If their school won't let them jump up to AA then they at least take it upon themselves to play the best teams in single A.

[grandmeadowhockeyfan]

The reason for saying roch mayo, JM, and century should
Play sta, Breck, and saint cloud is due to the comments regarding
The ease of Lourdes schedule. I think that Lourdes already
Plays a pretty good strong schedule. Much tougher than the other roch schools.

[HockeyRoch]

This debate is pointless in the end because Section 1-A or AA will get manhandled at state. It's happened year after year. Whether it's Rochester Lourdes or Lakeville representing Section 1, they always bow out early at state. Rochester hockey has declined over the past 10 years. Everything is too watered down. There are too many A players that should be on B teams and too many B players that should be C. As a whole Rochester hockey needs to figure something out.

[Chalk_Talk]

This debate is pointless in the end because Section 1-A or AA will get manhandled at state. It's happened year after year. Whether it's Rochester Lourdes or Lakeville representing Section 1, they always bow out early at state. Rochester hockey has declined over the past 10 years. Everything is too watered down. There are too many A players that should be on B teams and too many B players that should be C. As a whole Rochester hockey needs to figure something out.

I agree Roch has declined over the past 10 years.

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying. Rochester hockey is declining because kids are playing up at levels that they can't compete? So they must be getting beat by a large number night in and night out? So you think some kids playing on the A teams should play on the B team? Seems like you are going backwards to me. Roch High School teams will improve by doing this? Please explain your thoughts on why that will help

[clutterbuck22]

The reason for saying roch mayo, JM, and century should
Play sta, Breck, and saint cloud is due to the comments regarding
The ease of Lourdes schedule. I think that Lourdes already
Plays a pretty good strong schedule. Much tougher than the other roch schools.

Going back to Lourdes schedule, with the rankings right now, Lourdes plays 5 of the top 6 this season in Class A (minus Hermantown), Benilde-St. Margaret's (#1 AA), and has a chance to play the number 6th ranked team in Wisconsin in the Kiwanis festival. So far from an easy schedule.

[WBL 8888]

The last I heard is that Lakeville North has more kids in youth hockey than the whole Rochester Youth Program. Can anyone confirm if this is true?

[PeterDenton]

This debate is pointless in the end because Section 1-A or AA will get manhandled at state. It's happened year after year. Whether it's Rochester Lourdes or Lakeville representing Section 1, they always bow out early at state. Rochester hockey has declined over the past 10 years. Everything is too watered down. There are too many A players that should be on B teams and too many B players that should be C. As a whole Rochester hockey needs to figure something out.

Completely agree, RYHA is a complete joke and has been for a long time. The third biggest city in the state and don't have anything to show for it (youth championships etc.). IMO one of the biggest factors of this happening is the fact that too many daddys coached their kid's team. If you read the book Blades of Glory, about the 2000-2001 Bloomington Jefferson team, it points out that Tom Saterdalen, one of the top MN high school coaches of all time, never had parents coaching in the youth program and they had great success winning championships at all levels with a system sent down all the ranks through great coaching staffs. I know many of the top youth programs have no parents on the coaching staff. Funny, alot of these top youth programs develop into the High School powerhouses 4-5 years down the road. They become accustom to winning at a young age with good guidance and insight from their coaches. The goal is to develop every kids skills at whatever level they may be at that point. These levels are assessed by unbiased, hockey knowledgable evaluators during the tryout process. The goal is to not collude or try to become part of the staff so your kid makes the team they don't belong on.
When a parent coaches it can tend to create problems on a personal level. Whether it be giving his kid more ice time or being the coach just so he can make the "A" team because his abilities don't put him their in that part of his career. Another possibility is if his kid is playing bad then he could start getting angry and heated and take it out on the rest of the team undeservedly so.
I'm not saying this is the only reason RYHA is a laughing stock but I really think it would be a step in the right direction if coaches were not allowed to be parents of kids on the teams. With that they should definately have no say in the tryout process which has happened on several occasions in this Association its a joke.

Also, if you get a chance, check out Blades of Glory its a great book.

[goldy313]

From the early'70's through the late '80's the 2 public schools graduated more kids each year than the 3 public high schools do now. In 1977 John Marshall was one of the top 5 biggest high schools in the state and had nearly 2000 students in grades 10-12, now they have +/-1500 in grades 9-12. In the time frame referenced the public schools graduated about 1200-1400 kids a year, now they graduate about 1150. (ISD 535 lists the enrollment at C-1337, JM-1602, M-1615).

I'm not a fan of the way RYHA does a lot of things but even though the population of Rochester has gone up by 40,000 since 1977, the amount of kids in town hasn't followed the same trend. Then you have a 3rd high school being added and hockey becoming a more intense and year around sport and you can see why hockey isn't keeping pace as many would think it should.

There simply aren't enough kids playing hockey to field 4 competitive high school hockey teams. The balance of power will shift periodically and even in that sometimes the best team doesn't always win. Century won a lot of games with superior goaltending, Mayo won some with one outstanding line that put 3 kids in D1 hockey, JM won with depth.

Is Lourdes the best team? Who really cares? Those at Lourdes (kids and parents) do and that's about it and they'll throw enough crap at a wall something will stick i.e. section 1A titles, beating Faribault by 4 instead of 3, Elite league, etc. but they don't play each other so it doesn't really matter to most everyone else. If you're at Mayo you want to be the best team you play, in your conference, in your section, that is what matters not Lourdes. If Lourdes was in 1AA then people would care, instead they want to fight in hypotheticals where they can always win and have nothing to lose.

BTW, you'll never hear the Lourdes school itself make any comparison, it's the parents and youth people with an axe to grind. I'd like Lourdes to play AA because I think it would benefit all of Rochester hockey, I get they choose not too and I also understand that they've been consistant in that approach for many many years across all team sports.

[SEpuck]

This debate is pointless in the end because Section 1-A or AA will get manhandled at state. It's happened year after year. Whether it's Rochester Lourdes or Lakeville representing Section 1, they always bow out early at state. Rochester hockey has declined over the past 10 years. Everything is too watered down. There are too many A players that should be on B teams and too many B players that should be C. As a whole Rochester hockey needs to figure something out.

Completely agree, RYHA is a complete joke and has been for a long time. The third biggest city in the state and don't have anything to show for it (youth championships etc.). IMO one of the biggest factors of this happening is the fact that too many daddys coached their kid's team. If you read the book Blades of Glory, about the 2000-2001 Bloomington Jefferson team, it points out that Tom Saterdalen, one of the top MN high school coaches of all time, never had parents coaching in the youth program and they had great success winning championships at all levels with a system sent down all the ranks through great coaching staffs. I know many of the top youth programs have no parents on the coaching staff. Funny, alot of these top youth programs develop into the High School powerhouses 4-5 years down the road. They become accustom to winning at a young age with good guidance and insight from their coaches. The goal is to develop every kids skills at whatever level they may be at that point. These levels are assessed by unbiased, hockey knowledgable evaluators during the tryout process. The goal is to not collude or try to become part of the staff so your kid makes the team they don't belong on.
When a parent coaches it can tend to create problems on a personal level. Whether it be giving his kid more ice time or being the coach just so he can make the "A" team because his abilities don't put him their in that part of his career. Another possibility is if his kid is playing bad then he could start getting angry and heated and take it out on the rest of the team undeservedly so.
I'm not saying this is the only reason RYHA is a laughing stock but I really think it would be a step in the right direction if coaches were not allowed to be parents of kids on the teams. With that they should definately have no say in the tryout process which has happened on several occasions in this Association its a joke.

Also, if you get a chance, check out Blades of Glory its a great book.

This is true about the parents in the youth programs. I can remember back when I played even kids like Alex Kangas would never make the Peewee/Bantam A squads and I played with him on B teams because another goalies dad would always coach. There are countless other examples, just the highest profile one that I could think of off the top of my head. Things like this do need to change. However the overall hockey enrollment in Rochester is down, and with 4 HS in the city... the talent is too watered down.

[HockeyRoch]

I agree Roch has declined over the past 10 years.

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying. Rochester hockey is declining because kids are playing up at levels that they can't compete? So they must be getting beat by a large number night in and night out? So you think some kids playing on the A teams should play on the B team? Seems like you are going backwards to me. Roch High School teams will improve by doing this? Please explain your thoughts on why that will help

When I say that there are too many kids on "A" teams that should be on "B" teams and too many "B" kids that should be playing "C", I meant that Rochester is too watered down. It used to be an accomplishment and you did have to be the best of the best to make "A". It's different now. In Rochester Youth Hockey, we need to cut back the number of teams; we only need a North and a South team for each level, and if you can't make that team then that gives you something to work harder at for the next year. When you put kids at "A" level that are really "B" or "C" level players you promote complacency. Nobody works at getting better because they already feel like they're as good as they need to be since their on the "A" team. Bloomington Jefferson had a great system but we can even look in our backyard and pull out the approach we used when Kirk Gill, Todd Lampmann and others ran the "A" teams. This is when Rochester hockey was at its finest. What they did worked, what we are doing now doesn't.

[Chalk_Talk]

I agree Roch has declined over the past 10 years.

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying. Rochester hockey is declining because kids are playing up at levels that they can't compete? So they must be getting beat by a large number night in and night out? So you think some kids playing on the A teams should play on the B team? Seems like you are going backwards to me. Roch High School teams will improve by doing this? Please explain your thoughts on why that will help

When I say that there are too many kids on "A" teams that should be on "B" teams and too many "B" kids that should be playing "C", I meant that Rochester is too watered down. It used to be an accomplishment and you did have to be the best of the best to make "A". It's different now. In Rochester Youth Hockey, we need to cut back the number of teams; we only need a North and a South team for each level, and if you can't make that team then that gives you something to work harder at for the next year. When you put kids at "A" level that are really "B" or "C" level players you promote complacency. Nobody works at getting better because they already feel like they're as good as they need to be since their on the "A" team. Bloomington Jefferson had a great system but we can even look in our backyard and pull out the approach we used when Kirk Gill, Todd Lampmann and others ran the "A" teams. This is when Rochester hockey was at its finest. What they did worked, what we are doing now doesn't.

You are telling us. If the kids lose half their games every year they aren't not going to try and get better because you are on the A team?

[BadgerBob82]

HockeyRoch: You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

RYHA has not had a North/South team for 10 years. Was too watered down then and 75% of the players were north and 25%. So the bottom north kids had to play with the south kids. Was a disaster.

RYHA has had the top 15 skaters on 1 A teams for 10 years. Then 1 or 2 A2 teams. Then B1's B2's and C's. With 5 levels, virtually all players are at a good level for their ability.

Agreed the number of top end kids are lower than the past. Could be discussion as to why. But it's not because there are too many A teams!