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JDUBBS1280
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:44 pm

Post by JDUBBS1280 »

scorekeeper wrote:
The Exiled One wrote:
O-townClown wrote: Please substantiate this "fact".
He can't, it's not true.

512 players suited up for at least 1 USHL game and 315 suited up for at least 28 USHL games last season (64 regular season games). There were 314 college committed players (with more committing in the future). So, odds are that even if you're a bench player in the USHL, you can earn a D1 roster spot. There are 18 scholarships on a 27 man NCAA roster (66.7%).

The math doesn't work for oldschoolhuckster. The fact is, most USHL players DO earn a D1 scholarship.
You are such an idiot. One of the biggest shill in this forum. A classic NCAA bootlicker willing to bend the truth and spin the facts .

Oldschool is 100% correct that most USHL players don't get "full rides". In fact, almost nobody gets a full ride these days.

FACT:

NCAA schools can roster 30 players. The average is 27, yet they have only 18 scholdarships to give out and they ONLY play a 27 game schedule on average. MOST players are getting 50%-75% scholarships, leaving parents writing checks for 7K - 10K per season. That doesn't include living expenses, trips home or parent trips to visit. The cost can well exceed 15K-20K per season, making NCAA hockey the biggest "check book hockey" scheme going.

CHL players who use their scholarships get 100% of the books and tuition covered. Additionally, while with the team they can take college courses while with the team on the teams dime.

Amazingly, the NCAA snake oil salesmen who peddle the idea of the NCAA keeping OPTIONS open, actually limit options. There are ONLY 59 Division 1 teams and ONLY 51 of them offer athletic scholarships. Of those 51 only a handful are even considered in the top 100 schools in the world, but you are LIMITED to the school that you commit to.

CHL kids can choose any school in the world. Most schools are covered by their scholarship fund and those that aren't, the funds can be applied towards them. Moreover, there are as many Canadian Schools that offer hockey ranked in the top 100 as there are are D1 schools. You will get a much better education at McGill or the University of Toronto than you can get at the University of Minnesota, for example.

Uncovering a HUGE NCAA LIE. If Education is your priority, the CHL offers OPTIONS while the NCAA offers NONE.

If hockey is your priority it's no contest.

FACT

The NCAA has 59 schools with an average roster of 27 players per school, with an average number of players (59 X 27) each year of 1,593

The CHL has 60 teams with an average roster of 23 per team, with an average number of players (60 X 23) each year of 1,380

Yet despits icing an average of 213 FEWER players per year, the CHL provides 60% of the NHL talent while the NCAA provides just 30%. So a league that has 25% fewer players produces 100% more NHL talent.

Is it because they have BETTER PLAYERS? BETTER COACHES? BETTER DEVEOPMENT MODEL? or ALL OF THE ABOVE? (BINGO!)

In fact, a full 60% of CHL players go on to professional careers in Europe, the KHL and leagues like the AHL where players are making up to 1/2 million dollars a year.

Morover, the CHL is also the leading provider of elite coaches, trainers and administrators in hockey.

MOST CHL players will tell you there goal is to go as far in hockey as they can, and the FACTS support that MOST achieve this goal.

For those who don't, over 30% of CHL players go on to amazing University educations. Not at some cheezy D1 school who puts a 50% offer in front of them, but at almost any institution in the world of their choosing. Fantastic World Class Universities like McGill, University of Toronto, University of Alberta and University of BC.

For those who prefer and prioritize a world class education at an American institution - take your pick. University of Minnesota, University of Michigan, Wisconsin - no problem. CHL players are going there as well.

We know that the Gophers only pick up 3 or 4 kids a year on partial scholarship. So how many Minnesota kids grow up dreaming up playing for the RPI Engineers or Rochester School of Technology, or Alabama Hunstville? If you are a CHL caliber player, (and lets face it, they are few and far between), are you really holding out for a 50% tuition at Quinippiac when you can play 400 games in front of 5,000+ fans and NHL scouts while earning up to 7 years of actual QUALITY education fully paid for?

FACT

- your odds of making the NHL statistcally are 133% better through the CHL. That's a FACT! 60% of the NHL comes via the CHL and 30% comes via the NCAA, yet the NCAA rosters 25% more players annually.

There is NO COMPARISON - CHL is FAR SUPERIOR

Moreover, MOST NCAA players don't see any significant playing time. Do the math on 27 players playing a scant 27 games with the top 6 forwards and top 4 defensemen getting the lions share of the ice.


- the ice time that is statistically available to CHL players is 208 minutes per player per season based on a 23 man roster and an 80 game season. the ice time available to an NCAA player is 60 minutes per season based on a 27 man roster and a 27 game season.

There is NO COMPARISON - CHL is FAR SUPERIOR

- the NCAA restricts your education to ONE of the 51 teams that offer athletic scholarships. the CHL supports your education at the institution of your choice, MOST of which are covered by your scholarship package, including almost all of the D1 schools who offer athletic scholarships.

There is NO COMPARISON - CHL is FAR SUPERIOR

Those are FACTS sir. I am sure the NCAA bootlickers will be out in force to pick this apart. Be my guest - but facts are FACTS.
YET ONLY JUST OVER 30% OF CHL PLAYERS USE IT'S WONDERFUL "SCHOLARSHIP" PROGRAM!!!

Play NCAA Hockey. You'll get the same preparation for the NHL, and you will ACTUALLY get an education in the process.
scorekeeper
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:08 am

Post by scorekeeper »

JDUBBS1280 wrote:

YET ONLY JUST OVER 30% OF CHL PLAYERS USE IT'S WONDERFUL "SCHOLARSHIP" PROGRAM!!!

Play NCAA Hockey. You'll get the same preparation for the NHL, and you will ACTUALLY get an education in the process.
You are such a moron. The reason only 30% of them cash in their scholarships is because 60% of them realize their goals of playing professional hockey.

By your logic Nick Leddy is a failure because he has only 1 year of college.

The other 10% do just fine as well. here's a great article on life after the Dub - and most of these guys were BEFORE the scholarship program;
http://wheatkings.com/article/former-wh ... ome/142706

Why pick one or the other when you can have BOTH - the single best chance of going pro AND a world class university education if it doesn't work out.

Do you really want to hold out for a 1 year, 50% commitment from Alabama-Hunstville?

Do proper research folks. The vast majority of NCAA shills on this forum know nothing and spew nonsense.
JDUBBS1280
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:44 pm

Post by JDUBBS1280 »

scorekeeper wrote:
JDUBBS1280 wrote:

YET ONLY JUST OVER 30% OF CHL PLAYERS USE IT'S WONDERFUL "SCHOLARSHIP" PROGRAM!!!

Play NCAA Hockey. You'll get the same preparation for the NHL, and you will ACTUALLY get an education in the process.
You are such a moron. The reason only 30% of them cash in their scholarships is because 60% of them realize their goals of playing professional hockey.

By your logic Nick Leddy is a failure because he has only 1 year of college.

The other 10% do just fine as well. here's a great article on life after the Dub - and most of these guys were BEFORE the scholarship program;
http://wheatkings.com/article/former-wh ... ome/142706

Why pick one or the other when you can have BOTH - the single best chance of going pro AND a world class university education if it doesn't work out.

Do you really want to hold out for a 1 year, 50% commitment from Alabama-Hunstville?

Do proper research folks. The vast majority of NCAA shills on this forum know nothing and spew nonsense.
News Flash. Calling people names doesn't make your points any more valid.

Did I say it would make Leddy a failure? For every Nick Leddy that leaves after 1 year, how many players stay in school at least 2-3 years? How many players take classes during the summer and interim and are close to graduating when they leave and then finish up shortly after?

I BET MORE THAN 30%!!
The Exiled One
Posts: 1788
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:34 am

Post by The Exiled One »

scorekeeper wrote:
The Exiled One wrote:
O-townClown wrote: Please substantiate this "fact".
He can't, it's not true.

512 players suited up for at least 1 USHL game and 315 suited up for at least 28 USHL games last season (64 regular season games). There were 314 college committed players (with more committing in the future). So, odds are that even if you're a bench player in the USHL, you can earn a D1 roster spot. There are 18 scholarships on a 27 man NCAA roster (66.7%).

The math doesn't work for oldschoolhuckster. The fact is, most USHL players DO earn a D1 scholarship.
You are such an idiot. One of the biggest shill in this forum. A classic NCAA bootlicker willing to bend the truth and spin the facts .

Oldschool is 100% correct that most USHL players don't get "full rides". In fact, almost nobody gets a full ride these days.
I'm a shill? I live in Mounds View and my kid plays for the Irondale Youth Hockey Association. You?

Where did I say full ride?

Your lengthy posts come off about as genuine as a Louis Vuitton watch from Frogtown. Keep it up.
JDUBBS1280
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:44 pm

Post by JDUBBS1280 »

The Exiled One wrote:
scorekeeper wrote:
The Exiled One wrote: He can't, it's not true.

512 players suited up for at least 1 USHL game and 315 suited up for at least 28 USHL games last season (64 regular season games). There were 314 college committed players (with more committing in the future). So, odds are that even if you're a bench player in the USHL, you can earn a D1 roster spot. There are 18 scholarships on a 27 man NCAA roster (66.7%).

The math doesn't work for oldschoolhuckster. The fact is, most USHL players DO earn a D1 scholarship.
You are such an idiot. One of the biggest shill in this forum. A classic NCAA bootlicker willing to bend the truth and spin the facts .

Oldschool is 100% correct that most USHL players don't get "full rides". In fact, almost nobody gets a full ride these days.
I'm a shill? I live in Mounds View and my kid plays for the Irondale Youth Hockey Association. You?

Where did I say full ride?

Your lengthy posts come off about as genuine as a Louis Vuitton watch from Frogtown. Keep it up.
He clearly realizes he has no legs to stand on because he's resorting to name-calling. There is no way to explain away the fact that only slightly more than 30% of CHL kids use the educational benefits the CHL provides. That's just an embarrassing figure.

Lesson: Go to school kids and you'll learn to articulate your points without having to resort to name calling. You'll get farther.
Last edited by JDUBBS1280 on Tue May 28, 2013 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
JDUBBS1280
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:44 pm

Post by JDUBBS1280 »

For one, only about 32 per cent of CHL players are tapping into the scholarship program, and those who never pursue college or university receive no financial benefit upon graduation. For those who do entertain the idea of postsecondary education, their window is closed within 18 months of leaving major junior.
Once again, if the CHL's "Scholarship" program is so great, why are only 32 PERCENT of kids that play in the CHL taking advantage of it?????
Tigers33
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:06 pm

Post by Tigers33 »

Scorekeeper - Very classy!
scorekeeper
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:08 am

Post by scorekeeper »

JDUBBS1280 wrote:
For one, only about 32 per cent of CHL players are tapping into the scholarship program, and those who never pursue college or university receive no financial benefit upon graduation. For those who do entertain the idea of postsecondary education, their window is closed within 18 months of leaving major junior.
Once again, if the CHL's "Scholarship" program is so great, why are only 32 PERCENT of kids that play in the CHL taking advantage of it?????
scorekeeper wrote: The reason only 30% of them cash in their scholarships is because 60% of them realize their goals of playing professional hockey.
I wasn't name calling when I refered to you as a "moron", just stating a FACT
JDUBBS1280
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:44 pm

Post by JDUBBS1280 »

scorekeeper wrote:
JDUBBS1280 wrote:
For one, only about 32 per cent of CHL players are tapping into the scholarship program, and those who never pursue college or university receive no financial benefit upon graduation. For those who do entertain the idea of postsecondary education, their window is closed within 18 months of leaving major junior.
Once again, if the CHL's "Scholarship" program is so great, why are only 32 PERCENT of kids that play in the CHL taking advantage of it?????
scorekeeper wrote: The reason only 30% of them cash in their scholarships is because 60% of them realize their goals of playing professional hockey.
I wasn't name calling when I refered to you as a "moron", just stating a FACT
32 PERCENT !!!

A legitimate "FACT" you haven't been able to explain.

And no, 60% of these kids do not go on to play in the NHL, so we're still waiting for that logical explanation. :D
We'll add in the approximately 10% that at least make it onto an NHL roster at one point--which is being generous since even one full season at the NHL level probably isn't going to sustain you for life--and that still leaves over half the players that go the CHL route without the ability to make a career in hockey and without a college education. That's pretty scary to think about.
scorekeeper
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:08 am

Post by scorekeeper »

JDUBBS1280 wrote:
And no, 60% of these kids don't go on to play in the NHL, so we're still waiting for that logical explanation.
FACTS

60% go on to play PROFESSIONAL HOCKEY and DECLINE the scholarship.

Another 10% DECLINE the scholarship for whatever reason.

30% CASH IT IN.

To each his own.

FACTS


Don't worry, no one expects you to understand "logical"
JDUBBS1280
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:44 pm

Post by JDUBBS1280 »

scorekeeper wrote:
JDUBBS1280 wrote:
And no, 60% of these kids don't go on to play in the NHL, so we're still waiting for that logical explanation.
FACTS

60% go on to play PROFESSIONAL HOCKEY and DECLINE the scholarship.

Another 10% DECLINE the scholarship for whatever reason.

30% CASH IT IN.

To each his own.

FACTS


Don't worry, no one expects you to understand "logical"
Sorry, those are not facts. Perhaps you need a refresher on what "facts" are.
We'll add in the approximately 10% that at least make it onto an NHL roster at one point--which is being generous since even one full season at the NHL level probably isn't going to sustain you for life--and that still leaves over half the players that go the CHL route without the ability to make a career in hockey and without a college education. That's pretty scary to think about.
scorekeeper
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:08 am

Post by scorekeeper »

Those are the facts princess. You can drink the NCAA kool-aid and even peddle it to the uninformed, but unfortunately, you cant change the facts.

If you are good enough to play in the CHL, jump on it - play 400 games over 4-5 years and get the worlds BEST development and bank 5 years of world class education to use (or not use) as you see fit.

Or, listen to princess here, and hold out for a 50% single year commit from cheezy D1 school that may or may not be ranked in the top 500
Last edited by scorekeeper on Tue May 28, 2013 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JDUBBS1280
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:44 pm

Post by JDUBBS1280 »

scorekeeper wrote:Those are the facts princess. You can drink the NCAA kool-aid and even peddle it to the uninformed, but unfortunately, you cant change the facts.
Calling them facts doesn't make them facts. Even if you use bold font ;)

Cite sources or go pound sand. You won't be able to because your numbers are so far off it's ridiculous.
Last edited by JDUBBS1280 on Tue May 28, 2013 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
O-townClown
Posts: 4422
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

Post by O-townClown »

Did this really just happen?

++

Old School Huckster said a majority of USHL players did not receive a full or partial scholarship for NCAA hockey.

I asked for proof of the fact because my understanding is quite the opposite. USHL is the paved path to NCAA hockey in our country and most NCAA players have at least some scholarship at the Div I level.

Scorekeeper came in and said most USHL players don't earn a full scholarship.

++

No $#!+, Sherlock.

Glad you cleared that up for me.
Be kind. Rewind.
scorekeeper
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:08 am

Post by scorekeeper »

O-townClown wrote: No $#!+, Sherlock.

Glad you cleared that up for me.
My thoughts exactly. Apparently, many are uninformed.

No free rides fellas (very rare) - mom and dad better be ready to write some checks
scorekeeper
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:08 am

Post by scorekeeper »

JDUBBS1280 wrote: Cite sources or go pound sand. You won't be able to because your numbers are so far off it's ridiculous.
Let me introduce you to Google ... do your own research instead of talking out of your a** about something you don't know jack squat about.

If you are good enough to play in the CHL, jump on it - play 400 games over 4-5 years and get the worlds BEST development and bank 5 years of world class education to use (or not use) as you see fit.

Or, listen to princess here, and hold out for a 50% single year commit from cheezy D1 school that may or may not be ranked in the top 500
MrBoDangles
Posts: 4090
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 pm

Post by MrBoDangles »

Most of the former NHL players I know of would be S.O.L. without currently having their college degrees. No, the four to six years (good money) on the big stage didn't set them up for life.

The CHL just might be the best for developing players....... But they need to figure out the life after Hockey aspect.

Making the pro level might actually be the biggest thorn in their sides.
JDUBBS1280
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:44 pm

Post by JDUBBS1280 »

scorekeeper wrote:
JDUBBS1280 wrote: Cite sources or go pound sand. You won't be able to because your numbers are so far off it's ridiculous.
Let me introduce you to Google ... do your own research instead of talking out of your a** about something you don't know jack squat about.

If you are good enough to play in the CHL, jump on it - play 400 games over 4-5 years and get the worlds BEST development and bank 5 years of world class education to use (or not use) as you see fit.

Or, listen to princess here, and hold out for a 50% single year commit from cheezy D1 school that may or may not be ranked in the top 500
They're your "facts", back them up. Unless you can't because those facts are complete crap, then by all means don't ;)
JDUBBS1280
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:44 pm

Post by JDUBBS1280 »

scorekeeper wrote:
O-townClown wrote: No $#!+, Sherlock.

Glad you cleared that up for me.
My thoughts exactly. Apparently, many are uninformed.

No free rides fellas (very rare) - mom and dad better be ready to write some checks
Funny. I have two cousins who played D1 hockey. One for Mankato, one for SCSU. Both had at least a half ride (one had 3/4) and both played 4 years.

Our family must have been lucky :roll:
scorekeeper
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:08 am

Post by scorekeeper »

MrBoDangles wrote:Most of the former NHL players I know of would be S.O.L. without currently having their college degrees. No, the four to six years (good money) on the big stage didn't set them up for life.

The CHL just might be the best for developing players....... But they need to figure out the life after Hockey aspect.

Making the pro level might actually be the biggest thorn in their sides.
You could be right there for some of them, but school is ALWAYS there. D1 parents are stroking checks anyways for their hockey playing sons. If a CHL kid wishes to squander his scholarship in favor of professional hockey, hopefully he earns enough to go back to school (or start a business) or maybe mom and dad will buck up like the NCAA moms and dads and write some checks.

Bottom line - you cant fault the CHL Scholarship program if a kid decides at 20 he would rather play in the ECHL for 5 years. We all get to make our own choices, but the scholarship program is second to none. It certainly BLOWS AWAY the single year 50% BS peddled by D1 institutions.
scorekeeper
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:08 am

Post by scorekeeper »

JDUBBS1280 wrote:Funny. I have two cousins who played D1 hockey. One for Mankato, one for SCSU. Both had at least a half ride (one had 3/4) and both played 4 years.

Our family must have been lucky :roll:
Lucky? Maybe. Depends on if they were good enough for the CHL.

If they were, they could have got 7 years FULL RIDE. 2-3 years with the team and 4-5 years afterwards.
JDUBBS1280
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:44 pm

Post by JDUBBS1280 »

scorekeeper wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:Most of the former NHL players I know of would be S.O.L. without currently having their college degrees. No, the four to six years (good money) on the big stage didn't set them up for life.

The CHL just might be the best for developing players....... But they need to figure out the life after Hockey aspect.

Making the pro level might actually be the biggest thorn in their sides.
You could be right there for some of them, but school is ALWAYS there. D1 parents are stroking checks anyways for their hockey playing sons. If a CHL kid wishes to squander his scholarship in favor of professional hockey, hopefully he earns enough to go back to school (or start a business) or maybe mom and dad will buck up like the NCAA moms and dads and write some checks.

Bottom line - you cant fault the CHL Scholarship program if a kid decides at 20 he would rather play in the ECHL for 5 years. We all get to make our own choices, but the scholarship program is second to none. It certainly BLOWS AWAY the single year 50% BS peddled by D1 institutions.
Funny, kids who play NCAA hockey get an education while they prepare for the NHL.
scorekeeper
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:08 am

Post by scorekeeper »

JDUBBS1280 wrote: They're your "facts", back them up. Unless you can't because those facts are complete crap, then by all means don't ;)
Not "my" facts. Just the FACTS. Here they are. Go nuts

www.hockeydb.com
JDUBBS1280
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:44 pm

Post by JDUBBS1280 »

scorekeeper wrote:
JDUBBS1280 wrote:Funny. I have two cousins who played D1 hockey. One for Mankato, one for SCSU. Both had at least a half ride (one had 3/4) and both played 4 years.

Our family must have been lucky :roll:
Lucky? Maybe. Depends on if they were good enough for the CHL.

If they were, they could have got 7 years FULL RIDE. 2-3 years with the team and 4-5 years afterwards.
Probably not lucky. More like typical. Sorry you missed the sarcasm denoted by the :roll:
scorekeeper
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:08 am

Post by scorekeeper »

JDUBBS1280 wrote:
scorekeeper wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:Most of the former NHL players I know of would be S.O.L. without currently having their college degrees. No, the four to six years (good money) on the big stage didn't set them up for life.

The CHL just might be the best for developing players....... But they need to figure out the life after Hockey aspect.

Making the pro level might actually be the biggest thorn in their sides.
You could be right there for some of them, but school is ALWAYS there. D1 parents are stroking checks anyways for their hockey playing sons. If a CHL kid wishes to squander his scholarship in favor of professional hockey, hopefully he earns enough to go back to school (or start a business) or maybe mom and dad will buck up like the NCAA moms and dads and write some checks.

Bottom line - you cant fault the CHL Scholarship program if a kid decides at 20 he would rather play in the ECHL for 5 years. We all get to make our own choices, but the scholarship program is second to none. It certainly BLOWS AWAY the single year 50% BS peddled by D1 institutions.
Funny, kids who play NCAA hockey get an education while they prepare for the NHL.
That is funny.

CHL kids prepare for the NHL Draft as Juniors and then groom in the AHL for the NHL.

Then 75% of the kids who don't make the AHL (about 30% of the league) go on to FULL RIDE college scholarships.
Locked