Positioning isn't the sole factor of being a star goalie, but it has a large part in it. We know people can make saves out of position as the video posted by Superstar demonstrates. But it is always going to be easier to make a save while in position rather than out of position, yes? We want to try to eliminate that situation of being out of position - how do we better try to eliminate being out of position? By being in position, obviously.sticksave wrote:I never said athleticism should be the primary point of their teaching. You Can't teach athleticism. What I was responding too was the way positioning is being passed as the way every kid can be a star goalie. Very few goalie coaches spend time on drills that focus on agility, eye hand coordination and conditioning. The reason is you can take any kid and if he knows positioning he'll stop some pucks and its easy to show improvement and that works at the lower levels before kids can shoot. The problem is they don't ever expand on it. The young goalie slides time and time again across the crease as the coach fires the puck the same way 20 times in a row. Or the coach blows the wistles and the goalie stops in the same place every time for 10 minutes. Yep they become robots. With today's snipers you have to come way out of the net to cut those angles. If you watch today's best goalies they are way beyond the crease to stop those shots. Something you would call out of position. Hey any top level high school forward can hit a pie tin at 30 feet. Using your math the goalie in the proper position still has a hole that 3 square feet, 3 times the size of a pie tin. To take that away the goalie comes out further. That's what you call out of position. As the sticks have gotten better, the pads are getting smaller, the shooters better, the best goalies are out further and must be quicker and make trickier saves to be the best. Athleticism will be the new focus. The goalies that stay back and in "position" as you would have them are easy pickings for the better shooters. The kid that come out and then can get back will be the star. If that looks like a waist of energy to you or inefficient well.... sorry but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.Even if you watch that video many of those saves are necessary due to poor recovery (wrong leg) and lack-thereof pivoting. They ultimately stop the puck, but being an efficient goaltender requires covering the most ground and net with the least movement necessary. Not diving across the crease.
The primary reason goaltenders are scored on at the youth level is because their feet are moving while the shot is taken. How do we try to limit that movement? By establishing proper position, stance, and save fundamentals. When we teach goaltenders, do we give them drills to practice saves in the proper position, or do we teach them to dive across the net. Should I say "Dive!" or "Pivot and butterfly slide/extended leg to the far post. "If a situation requires it, they'll do the athletic save instinctively. You cannot teach that. It should not be something that is a major focus of teaching because 1. it seldom happens, and 2. those saves are typically "flopping."
I can stand a goalie on the goal line of a 6' x 4' net an say "stop the puck" but they are going to use more energy because the save requires more movement, and potentially that "athletic" save. OR I can move them to the top of the crease, shrink the net from angles to 5' x 3' and have them do the same and 1. use less energy, and 2. look more efficient in their form, saves, and positioning.
I mentioned it in an earlier post but often in the youth levels we see goaltenders over compensate the angle and position on the off angle. If you stand on the arc of the crease at a 45/135 degree angle the net shrinks to 3' x 3'. Leg pads alone take up 2/3 the space. But I feel as though you're saying if they over commit on the play but make the diving save that somehow negates the cause being his/her poor positioning? Ultimately they stop the puck, but we don't want to teach young players poor habits.
That is why we have goaltenders practice their V, W, X, Y, and Z drills. This is why we teach them positioning, stance and angles. Think of it as a machine - we want to maximize efficiency. In saying that, we as coaches aim to receive the best result by having our goaltender use the least amount of energy. Energy use is lessened by reducing unnecessary movements, like diving across the crease routinely.
I assume with a name like "sticksave" you are/were a goaltender, so I'm having some difficulty understanding where you see athleticism being the primary focus in their teaching rather than their fundamentals...
I did not say playing beyond the crease was "out of position," but I never see a reason for a goalie to go beyond half way between the crease and the hash-marks. I simply used the example of over compensating for the off angle and diving back to the net constantly, or making the "athletic save," because it is often the most common situation and it is completely unnecessary. A goaltender that knows their space, in relation to their positioning, will realize they do not need to come out extremely far to take away the net in that situation. How often do we see a goaltender challenge an off angle shot and stand a couple feet off the crease when the puck is below the hash-mark? Just stand on the pipe with your legs closed and the angle is gone. If they're within distance of the dot, go into an h7 (or a post load). I am just saying there are better methods of defending a play rather than jumping across the net...
You ask me to use my math so I ask you to consider the following as well. In relation to the 3' x 3' space, if you're in a butterfly the lowest 3rd is taken by pads. The second 3rd is covered by body and gloves. All that remains in the last third is space above the shoulders. You're looking at maybe a foot and a half of net that is open (pending the goalie's size). Now, I use the crease as a benchmark because the dimension is known. If a goalie comes forward about 6 more inches there is hardly any net. If any, maybe over the inside shoulder. But there is a problem when a goalie is two feet off the crease on outside angles. The is absolutely no need for it. Unless there is a guarantee shot and they cut the angle, otherwise in basically any play-situation, it is unnecessary and is poor positioning.
As for the pie tin, we'll say a high school player shoots at 65 mph. That travels 95 1/3 ft/sec. That allows a 1/3 sec reaction time to adjust for the shot. Average human reaction time is 1/5 of a second. Also, being as we are discussing more advanced goaltenders, I would assume by this level they have been taught how to read a shooters stick.
A goaltender requires athleticism, there's not question in that, but to constantly dive around the crease is not a practical method of defending a net. But, as you said, we'll agree to disagree
