Hilltopper Holiday Classic- a dandy

[Dog_Log17]

Even though I'm a West fan, I still have to say I thought the state of Wisconsin was maybe the biggest winner. This tournament started with four ranked MN Class A teams: Marshall, Delano, Mankato West and East Grand Forks, but each one of those lost at least once to a Wisconsin team. Appleton beating Marshall, and Notre Dame beating both EGF and West shows how far the WI teams have come in the last few years.

Great tournament overall.

Well stated. I had the same thoughts heading home about the Wisconsin teams and the solid showing that they had. Overall, this was a great tournament and I had a blast! The Championship game between MW and ND was the best HS hockey game I have seen in a few years. It was a very entertaining game between two very good hockey teams.

[JSR]

Even though I'm a West fan, I still have to say I thought the state of Wisconsin was maybe the biggest winner. This tournament started with four ranked MN Class A teams: Marshall, Delano, Mankato West and East Grand Forks, but each one of those lost at least once to a Wisconsin team. Appleton beating Marshall, and Notre Dame beating both EGF and West shows how far the WI teams have come in the last few years.

Great tournament overall.

Very classy

[elliott70]

Even though I'm a West fan, I still have to say I thought the state of Wisconsin was maybe the biggest winner. This tournament started with four ranked MN Class A teams: Marshall, Delano, Mankato West and East Grand Forks, but each one of those lost at least once to a Wisconsin team. Appleton beating Marshall, and Notre Dame beating both EGF and West shows how far the WI teams have come in the last few years.

Great tournament overall.

Very classy

I think it also shows how the balance of power has shifted in Wisconsin.
Superior and a couple of other northern teams and Madison were the strength.
That appears to be changing also.

[JSR]

Even though I'm a West fan, I still have to say I thought the state of Wisconsin was maybe the biggest winner. This tournament started with four ranked MN Class A teams: Marshall, Delano, Mankato West and East Grand Forks, but each one of those lost at least once to a Wisconsin team. Appleton beating Marshall, and Notre Dame beating both EGF and West shows how far the WI teams have come in the last few years.

Great tournament overall.

Very classy

I think it also shows how the balance of power has shifted in Wisconsin.
Superior and a couple of other northern teams and Madison were the strength.
That appears to be changing also.

I don't think you were asking per se, but in case you're interested.... Superior is still very good but they are not the "dominant force" they once were. I still think they are on par with what they have always been but the rest of the state has been catching up and doing so exponentialy lately.... Notre Dame Academy has not even had hockey as a varsity sport for very long, but they are a private catholic school and they do a good job of "recruiting" top players away from their public schools. When you transfer from public to private school in WI there is no "sit out" rule that applies like if you transfer from public to public, in those cases our rule is similar to yours in MN.... Madison is still a hockey hotbed, and actually we have alot more players in Madison than we used to and alot more quality players BUT there aren't many, if any, predominantly dominant schools (axcept maybe Edgewood, again a private catholic school) from year to year anymore like there used to be because we've had so many new rinks and new programs open up in the last 15 years. So many suburb communities have their own rink and their own varsity program now where 15+ eyars ago few to none did. When I was in high school a little over 20 years ago there were around 9 high school varsity programs in Dane and Rock County area, now there are somewhere around 17 or 18 or so.... So it's grown hockey overall, but it's weakened certain previously powerhouse programs in the process as well... but the sport has been growing on the whole in this state and continues to do so which is good!

[green4]

im curious where would some of the top wisconsin teams fit in rankings if they played in minnesota?
The Notre dame team seems like they have a lot of skill. A top 15 team? top 10 maybe? They beat a couple of good teams in EGF and mankato west.
Eau Claire Memorial is ranked 3rd in wisconsin it says and they seem pretty good.
Anyone have any thoughts?

[east hockey]

im curious where would some of the top wisconsin teams fit in rankings if they played in minnesota?
The Notre dame team seems like they have a lot of skill. A top 15 team? top 10 maybe? They beat a couple of good teams in EGF and mankato west.
Eau Claire Memorial is ranked 3rd in wisconsin it says and they seem pretty good.
Anyone have any thoughts?

Based on games played against Minnesota teams so far this season:

Notre Dame (Wi) --27th
Eau Claire Memorial (Wi) --30th
Grand Forks Red River (ND) --40th
Superior (Wi) --47th

No other teams in the top 50.

Lee

[JSR]

im curious where would some of the top wisconsin teams fit in rankings if they played in minnesota?
The Notre dame team seems like they have a lot of skill. A top 15 team? top 10 maybe? They beat a couple of good teams in EGF and mankato west.
Eau Claire Memorial is ranked 3rd in wisconsin it says and they seem pretty good.
Anyone have any thoughts?

Based on games played against Minnesota teams so far this season:

Notre Dame (Wi) --27th
Eau Claire Memorial (Wi) --30th
Grand Forks Red River (ND) --40th
Superior (Wi) --47th

No other teams in the top 50.

Lee

Are we ranking these WI teams in the "A" or the "AA" rankings?? Or overal??? That'd be question number 1....

Secondly not 100% sure what you mean about based on games against MN teams so far this season, do you mean if a team hasn't played a MN team they won't even be considered???

As for Notre Dame depending on what your ranking scale was, I think they'd be solidly inside the top 20 in AA, and in the top 5 team in "A". Overall I think I might rank them around 23rd for combined rankings......

Lastly, no love for undefeated Verona (WI)??? ranked second in WI, tied Eau Claire when they played them in the same MN tourney that EC played in. they are ranked ahead of Eau Claire in our own WI rankings and a very very good team to boot, I'd put them right around same rank as Eau Claire..... Hudson is probably knocking on the door of the top 50 as well, probably a bubble team right about the same as Superior

[green4]

im curious where would some of the top wisconsin teams fit in rankings if they played in minnesota?
The Notre dame team seems like they have a lot of skill. A top 15 team? top 10 maybe? They beat a couple of good teams in EGF and mankato west.
Eau Claire Memorial is ranked 3rd in wisconsin it says and they seem pretty good.
Anyone have any thoughts?

Based on games played against Minnesota teams so far this season:

Notre Dame (Wi) --27th
Eau Claire Memorial (Wi) --30th
Grand Forks Red River (ND) --40th
Superior (Wi) --47th

No other teams in the top 50.

Lee

Are we ranking these WI teams in the "A" or the "AA" rankings?? Or overal??? That'd be question number 1....

Secondly not 100% sure what you mean about based on games against MN teams so far this season, do you mean if a team hasn't played a MN team they won't even be considered???

As for Notre Dame depending on what your ranking scale was, I think they'd be solidly inside the top 20 in AA, and in the top 5 team in "A". Overall I think I might rank them around 23rd for combined rankings......

Lastly, no love for undefeated Verona (WI)??? ranked second in WI, tied Eau Claire when they played them in the same MN tourney that EC played in. they are ranked ahead of Eau Claire in our own WI rankings and a very very good team to boot, I'd put them right around same rank as Eau Claire..... Hudson is probably knocking on the door of the top 50 as well, probably a bubble team right about the same as Superior

I did look at the wisconsin rankings before asking my question and I did see Verona ranked 2nd but I noticed they also tied Rochester Lourdes who has one win to there name and that made me question that team a little. Bad games happen though so they could for sure be a top team

[JSR]

Based on games played against Minnesota teams so far this season:

Notre Dame (Wi) --27th
Eau Claire Memorial (Wi) --30th
Grand Forks Red River (ND) --40th
Superior (Wi) --47th

No other teams in the top 50.

Lee

Are we ranking these WI teams in the "A" or the "AA" rankings?? Or overal??? That'd be question number 1....

Secondly not 100% sure what you mean about based on games against MN teams so far this season, do you mean if a team hasn't played a MN team they won't even be considered???

As for Notre Dame depending on what your ranking scale was, I think they'd be solidly inside the top 20 in AA, and in the top 5 team in "A". Overall I think I might rank them around 23rd for combined rankings......

Lastly, no love for undefeated Verona (WI)??? ranked second in WI, tied Eau Claire when they played them in the same MN tourney that EC played in. they are ranked ahead of Eau Claire in our own WI rankings and a very very good team to boot, I'd put them right around same rank as Eau Claire..... Hudson is probably knocking on the door of the top 50 as well, probably a bubble team right about the same as Superior

I did look at the wisconsin rankings before asking my question and I did see Verona ranked 2nd but I noticed they also tied Rochester Lourdes who has one win to there name and that made me question that team a little. Bad games happen though so they could for sure be a top team

fair enough... the parents I know from Verona told me it was a frustrating game that they felt they were by far the better team but things looked a bit out of synch that game and they said the Lourdes goalie played exceptional in their eyes, but who knows I wasn't there ... but I do know the Verona team and they are a very good team

[east hockey]

im curious where would some of the top wisconsin teams fit in rankings if they played in minnesota?
The Notre dame team seems like they have a lot of skill. A top 15 team? top 10 maybe? They beat a couple of good teams in EGF and mankato west.
Eau Claire Memorial is ranked 3rd in wisconsin it says and they seem pretty good.
Anyone have any thoughts?

Based on games played against Minnesota teams so far this season:

Notre Dame (Wi) --27th
Eau Claire Memorial (Wi) --30th
Grand Forks Red River (ND) --40th
Superior (Wi) --47th

No other teams in the top 50.

Lee

Are we ranking these WI teams in the "A" or the "AA" rankings?? Or overal??? That'd be question number 1....

Secondly not 100% sure what you mean about based on games against MN teams so far this season, do you mean if a team hasn't played a MN team they won't even be considered???

As for Notre Dame depending on what your ranking scale was, I think they'd be solidly inside the top 20 in AA, and in the top 5 team in "A". Overall I think I might rank them around 23rd for combined rankings......

Lastly, no love for undefeated Verona (WI)??? ranked second in WI, tied Eau Claire when they played them in the same MN tourney that EC played in. they are ranked ahead of Eau Claire in our own WI rankings and a very very good team to boot, I'd put them right around same rank as Eau Claire..... Hudson is probably knocking on the door of the top 50 as well, probably a bubble team right about the same as Superior

What I mean is this; PageStat only looks at games played by Minnesota teams. Game scores are assigned to all opponents, including Wisconsin opponents. Therefore, it comes up with an average rating for Wisconsin teams but only in games where they play a Minnesota opponent.

I don't take into consideration games between only Wisconsin schools for two reasons:

1. I don't have the time
2. I don't care

The rankings I listed showed where they would rank overall in Minnesota. I don't break them down into class because I don't know what class Wisconsin schools would fall into in Minnesota. Again, see reason #2 above.

Verona has only played one game against a Minnesota team, and they tied Lourdes. Lourdes is ranked #90 in Minnesota. It's not a matter of "love" or whatever term one would use, it's a matter of what PageStat considers.

Lee

[JSR]

Based on games played against Minnesota teams so far this season:

Notre Dame (Wi) --27th
Eau Claire Memorial (Wi) --30th
Grand Forks Red River (ND) --40th
Superior (Wi) --47th

No other teams in the top 50.

Lee

Are we ranking these WI teams in the "A" or the "AA" rankings?? Or overal??? That'd be question number 1....

Secondly not 100% sure what you mean about based on games against MN teams so far this season, do you mean if a team hasn't played a MN team they won't even be considered???

As for Notre Dame depending on what your ranking scale was, I think they'd be solidly inside the top 20 in AA, and in the top 5 team in "A". Overall I think I might rank them around 23rd for combined rankings......

Lastly, no love for undefeated Verona (WI)??? ranked second in WI, tied Eau Claire when they played them in the same MN tourney that EC played in. they are ranked ahead of Eau Claire in our own WI rankings and a very very good team to boot, I'd put them right around same rank as Eau Claire..... Hudson is probably knocking on the door of the top 50 as well, probably a bubble team right about the same as Superior

What I mean is this; PageStat only looks at games played by Minnesota teams. Game scores are assigned to all opponents, including Wisconsin opponents. Therefore, it comes up with an average rating for Wisconsin teams but only in games where they play a Minnesota opponent.

I don't take into consideration games between only Wisconsin schools for two reasons:

1. I don't have the time
2. I don't care

The rankings I listed showed where they would rank overall in Minnesota. I don't break them down into class because I don't know what class Wisconsin schools would fall into in Minnesota. Again, see reason #2 above.

Verona has only played one game against a Minnesota team, and they tied Lourdes. Lourdes is ranked #90 in Minnesota. It's not a matter of "love" or whatever term one would use, it's a matter of what PageStat considers.

Lee

I had never heard of PageStat before now, glad you brought it to my attention, always like finding new stuff to learn from . I found them on the internet and found the rankings but I cannot find the page where you find how the WI teams are being "ranked", where r you finding that?

[east hockey]

Are we ranking these WI teams in the "A" or the "AA" rankings?? Or overal??? That'd be question number 1....

Secondly not 100% sure what you mean about based on games against MN teams so far this season, do you mean if a team hasn't played a MN team they won't even be considered???

As for Notre Dame depending on what your ranking scale was, I think they'd be solidly inside the top 20 in AA, and in the top 5 team in "A". Overall I think I might rank them around 23rd for combined rankings......

Lastly, no love for undefeated Verona (WI)??? ranked second in WI, tied Eau Claire when they played them in the same MN tourney that EC played in. they are ranked ahead of Eau Claire in our own WI rankings and a very very good team to boot, I'd put them right around same rank as Eau Claire..... Hudson is probably knocking on the door of the top 50 as well, probably a bubble team right about the same as Superior

What I mean is this; PageStat only looks at games played by Minnesota teams. Game scores are assigned to all opponents, including Wisconsin opponents. Therefore, it comes up with an average rating for Wisconsin teams but only in games where they play a Minnesota opponent.

I don't take into consideration games between only Wisconsin schools for two reasons:

1. I don't have the time
2. I don't care

The rankings I listed showed where they would rank overall in Minnesota. I don't break them down into class because I don't know what class Wisconsin schools would fall into in Minnesota. Again, see reason #2 above.

Verona has only played one game against a Minnesota team, and they tied Lourdes. Lourdes is ranked #90 in Minnesota. It's not a matter of "love" or whatever term one would use, it's a matter of what PageStat considers.

Lee

I had never heard of PageStat before now, glad you brought it to my attention, always like finding new stuff to learn from . I found them on the internet and found the rankings but I cannot find the page where you find how the WI teams are being "ranked", where r you finding that?

I don't rank the WI teams on that site. The numbers I quoted were from my going directly to the database I use for the weekly updates, and resorting for all teams, regardless of their state. I don't include teams outside MN on the PageStat ratings.

Lee

[JSR]

What I mean is this; PageStat only looks at games played by Minnesota teams. Game scores are assigned to all opponents, including Wisconsin opponents. Therefore, it comes up with an average rating for Wisconsin teams but only in games where they play a Minnesota opponent.

I don't take into consideration games between only Wisconsin schools for two reasons:

1. I don't have the time
2. I don't care

The rankings I listed showed where they would rank overall in Minnesota. I don't break them down into class because I don't know what class Wisconsin schools would fall into in Minnesota. Again, see reason #2 above.

Verona has only played one game against a Minnesota team, and they tied Lourdes. Lourdes is ranked #90 in Minnesota. It's not a matter of "love" or whatever term one would use, it's a matter of what PageStat considers.

Lee

I had never heard of PageStat before now, glad you brought it to my attention, always like finding new stuff to learn from . I found them on the internet and found the rankings but I cannot find the page where you find how the WI teams are being "ranked", where r you finding that?

I don't rank the WI teams on that site. The numbers I quoted were from my going directly to the database I use for the weekly updates, and resorting for all teams, regardless of their state. I don't include teams outside MN on the PageStat ratings.

Lee

So this is sort of a formula based computer ranking system? If so then if I understood correctly games against WI teams are considered for the formula? And if that is correct those games can effect where that MN team is ranked? And if that is correct then shouldn't some effort go into properly ranking the WI teams OR games against WI teams probably should not count toward the rankings (if they do), because otherwise they can improperly influence a ranking it would seem. I am not arguing, I am trying to understand.

[karl(east)]

JSR--Mitch Hawker (another board admin here) has his own system that runs on similar principles to Lee's PS2, and it has a Wisconsin ranking here:

http://www.ushsho.com/wirank.htm

You can then compare the "total" column in his MN rankings to see how teams match up:

http://www.ushsho.com/mnrank.htm

I'm guessing some of the better WI teams are dragged down a little due to weaker SOS relative to most MN teams, but this is probably the best head-to-head comparison you're going to find.

In general, I'd say WI is comparable to MN Class A, perhaps minus some of the truly elite Class A teams (STA before they moved up, Breck, Hermantown in most years).

[JSR]

JSR--Mitch Hawker (another board admin here) has his own system that runs on similar principles to Lee's PS2, and it has a Wisconsin ranking here:

http://www.ushsho.com/wirank.htm

You can then compare the "total" column in his MN rankings to see how teams match up:

http://www.ushsho.com/mnrank.htm

I'm guessing some of the better WI teams are dragged down a little due to weaker SOS relative to most MN teams, but this is probably the best head-to-head comparison you're going to find.

In general, I'd say WI is comparable to MN Class A, perhaps minus some of the truly elite Class A teams (STA before they moved up, Breck, Hermantown in most years).

Thanks for the info. I'd say you are probably correct in saying that. Obviously there are a small handful of teams that can compete at a high level (ie Notre Dame) but for teh masses this is a fair statement