Question about Shattuck...

[bauerman]

ass kicking last year by STA for sure and I believe Breck== anyway i know for sure STA was'nt trying and if they were it would have been running time (game at SSM)

[O-townClown]

To win the state tournament you still have to win 3-5 competitive games at the end of the season against other good teams. It is a reach to say Shattuck would win every year. They sometimes lose to HS teams.

Edina is first repeat in a long, long time. It isn't easy to win the state tourney.

[HShockeywatcher]

ass kicking last year by STA for sure and I believe Breck== anyway i know for sure STA was'nt trying and if they were it would have been running time (game at SSM)

As a St Thomas fan who attended the game last year, to call that game an ass kicking is definitely false. Last year's team was probably St Thomas' best team ever and the Shattuck team they played that night was probably the best team I've ever seen them play against.

Shattuck playing high school teams seems very similar to the East/Hermantown discussion. It's a lose/lose for them.
Were they desperate to get ahead and definitely trying in the game I saw? For sure.
Did they care that much the next day? It's possible the answer is no.

I think many people are trivializing how good Shattuck's teams are. Comparing losing a single game or two in one season when they have dominated in most years in one or two games of a 50 game season is quite trivial.
Were they in AA, for example, they'd be in 1AA, make it to state literally every year, should be the #1 seed literally every year and play maybe 2 tough games but many years only 1. Look at Edina this year; they were challenged all of literally zero times in the entire playoffs.

My guess, were they to play in the state tournament they'd win it every year, easily.

[DubCHAGuy]

ass kicking last year by STA for sure and I believe Breck== anyway i know for sure STA was'nt trying and if they were it would have been running time (game at SSM)

As a St Thomas fan who attended the game last year, to call that game an ass kicking is definitely false. Last year's team was probably St Thomas' best team ever and the Shattuck team they played that night was probably the best team I've ever seen them play against.

Shattuck playing high school teams seems very similar to the East/Hermantown discussion. It's a lose/lose for them.
Were they desperate to get ahead and definitely trying in the game I saw? For sure.
Did they care that much the next day? It's possible the answer is no.

I think many people are trivializing how good Shattuck's teams are. Comparing losing a single game or two in one season when they have dominated in most years in one or two games of a 50 game season is quite trivial.
Were they in AA, for example, they'd be in 1AA, make it to state literally every year, should be the #1 seed literally every year and play maybe 2 tough games but many years only 1. Look at Edina this year; they were challenged all of literally zero times in the entire playoffs.

My guess, were they to play in the state tournament they'd win it every year, easily.

Great summary HSHW.
It's a moot point though, if they were allowed to play MSHSL they would have to follow HS rules, and parents with names like Crosby, Dineen, Gretzky, MacTavish, and Brodeur wouldn't be sending kids to Fairbault MN to play 25 games per year.

The51,
Some players might not have cared a few days later, but I've attended several of these, SSM played their top guys the whole game every time.

[MNHockeyFan]

As a St Thomas fan who attended the game last year, to call that game an ass kicking is definitely false. Last year's team was probably St Thomas' best team ever and the Shattuck team they played that night was probably the best team I've ever seen them play against.

Shattuck playing high school teams seems very similar to the East/Hermantown discussion. It's a lose/lose for them.
Were they desperate to get ahead and definitely trying in the game I saw? For sure.
Did they care that much the next day? It's possible the answer is no.

I think many people are trivializing how good Shattuck's teams are. Comparing losing a single game or two in one season when they have dominated in most years in one or two games of a 50 game season is quite trivial.
Were they in AA, for example, they'd be in 1AA, make it to state literally every year, should be the #1 seed literally every year and play maybe 2 tough games but many years only 1. Look at Edina this year; they were challenged all of literally zero times in the entire playoffs.

My guess, were they to play in the state tournament they'd win it every year, easily.

Agreed with everything you said except for the last sentence. If they would win it every year, easily, how does that explain them losing ANY of the handful of games they've played against STA, BSM, Breck, etc.? My best guess is that they would win the tourney about 75% of the time, but no way would they win it every year...easily. And honestly if they had been in it this year I don't think they would have necessarily won it - Edina was that good and quite a bit better than any of the teams that have beaten SSM in the last few years.

[bauerman]

Totally agree , i was being a little sarcastic when I sai d STA kicked their ass, but to say SSM doesn't care about these games is way off base. I have a son inlaw that played for the SSM prep team and believe me they know when they are playing a minnesota high school team. They would be favored and win quite a few State tourneys but not all and it would be easy, a team like this years Edina would give them a good game

[HShockeywatcher]

Agreed with everything you said except for the last sentence. If they would win it every year, easily, how does that explain them losing ANY of the handful of games they've played against STA, BSM, Breck, etc.?

Couldn't you ask the same question of Edina this year? If they're good enough to allow only 7 goals in the entire post season, how is it that they lost 4 games this season? If Shattuck is good enough to have won 6 of the last 10 national championships, how it is that they lose games every year?

I can't give you some magic answer, but there is a difference between playing in a regular season game and a state championship game. The attitude, how it's coached, what you are working on, etc, etc.

Year - Record
13-14 1-0
12-13 0-2
11-12 1-0-1
10-11 3-0
09-10 4-0
08-09 1-0
07-08 1-1
06-07 0-1
05-06 1-0
12-4-1

[DubCHAGuy]

Agreed with everything you said except for the last sentence. If they would win it every year, easily, how does that explain them losing ANY of the handful of games they've played against STA, BSM, Breck, etc.?

Couldn't you ask the same question of Edina this year? If they're good enough to allow only 7 goals in the entire post season, how is it that they lost 4 games this season? If Shattuck is good enough to have won 6 of the last 10 national championships, how it is that they lose games every year?

I can't give you some magic answer, but there is a difference between playing in a regular season game and a state championship game. The attitude, how it's coached, what you are working on, etc, etc.

Year - Record
13-14 1-0
12-13 0-2
11-12 1-0-1
10-11 3-0
09-10 4-0
08-09 1-0
07-08 1-1
06-07 0-1
05-06 1-0
12-4-1

You don't need a magic answer, you hit the nail on the head before. Just watch them, they are a cut above HS teams, mostly due to their depth.
That doesn't mean they would never lose, but they are on another level.

Also, Edina was great this year. CLEARLY the best team, but with regards to their postseason 'dominance' (7 GA), it had more to do with the fairly easy road they took to the championship.

[The51]

I said it before here but since some of you clearly missed it I'll say it again...

My comment about them not caring as much about the games against high school teams is not my opinion I am simply quoting one of their players, who was also the one that told me their top line sat on the bench the entire second and third period in their game against Benilde.

In the end that is irrelevant, the only fact that matters is the difference in next level players Shattuck produces with versus one of these high schools. When Shattuck is pulling in top talent from all over North America there's no way one city is going to be able to put up talent that matches that.

Shattuck would win the state tournament 19 times out of 20 if they played.

[MNHockeyFan]

Couldn't you ask the same question of Edina this year? If they're good enough to allow only 7 goals in the entire post season, how is it that they lost 4 games this season? If Shattuck is good enough to have won 6 of the last 10 national championships, how it is that they lose games every year?

You made my point, when I disagreed with your claim that SSM would win every MN State Tournament "easily". They would not win it every year, let alone easily. Edina has won three of the last five, but before that they went 12 years without a title. We will probably never know how often SSM would win it, but I think my guess of 75% of the time is as good as any.

[DubCHAGuy]

My comment about them not caring as much about the games against high school teams is not my opinion I am simply quoting one of their players, who was also the one that told me their top line sat on the bench the entire second and third period in their game against Benilde.

Shattuck would win the state tournament 19 times out of 20 if they played.

Probably true in that game, as in any 8-1 game at any level. Over the years they have played all their guys against top HS teams and generally win by 2-3 goals. I think we all agree SSM is on a different level. To HS fans I'd say go check them out if you get the chance. 4 lines deep with skill and they play as hard and physical as anybody.

[The51]

My comment about them not caring as much about the games against high school teams is not my opinion I am simply quoting one of their players, who was also the one that told me their top line sat on the bench the entire second and third period in their game against Benilde.

Shattuck would win the state tournament 19 times out of 20 if they played.

Probably true in that game, as in any 8-1 game at any level. Over the years they have played all their guys against top HS teams and generally win by 2-3 goals. I think we all agree SSM is on a different level. To HS fans I'd say go check them out if you get the chance. 4 lines deep with skill and they play as hard and physical as anybody.

Do you not pay attention? I'm talking about 2012 when Benilde won state Shattuck beat them 5-2. If you go back and read my part posts you would see that

[InYourFace09]

My comment about them not caring as much about the games against high school teams is not my opinion I am simply quoting one of their players, who was also the one that told me their top line sat on the bench the entire second and third period in their game against Benilde.

Shattuck would win the state tournament 19 times out of 20 if they played.

Probably true in that game, as in any 8-1 game at any level. Over the years they have played all their guys against top HS teams and generally win by 2-3 goals. I think we all agree SSM is on a different level. To HS fans I'd say go check them out if you get the chance. 4 lines deep with skill and they play as hard and physical as anybody.

Do you not pay attention? I'm talking about 2012 when Benilde won state Shattuck beat them 5-2. If you go back and read my part posts you would see that

yes we get it, but like you said nobody is going to change your thought process. You got one kids response.

Was Fejes not a top liner? Teddy Blueger? Both the top point getters for Shattuck in 2012 and were on the score sheet in the 2nd and 3rd period for the Benilde game.

[DubCHAGuy]

My comment about them not caring as much about the games against high school teams is not my opinion I am simply quoting one of their players, who was also the one that told me their top line sat on the bench the entire second and third period in their game against Benilde.

Shattuck would win the state tournament 19 times out of 20 if they played.

Probably true in that game, as in any 8-1 game at any level. Over the years they have played all their guys against top HS teams and generally win by 2-3 goals. I think we all agree SSM is on a different level. To HS fans I'd say go check them out if you get the chance. 4 lines deep with skill and they play as hard and physical as anybody.

Do you not pay attention? I'm talking about 2012 when Benilde won state Shattuck beat them 5-2. If you go back and read my part posts you would see that

Then you were lied to. I was there, they played everyone. In fact, SSM's top 2 scorers (Blueger and Fejes) had goals late in the 2nd, and late in the 3rd to make it 5-2. Stepan, Becker, Draeger, all played the whole game.

Also, do you really believe Tom Ward schedules throw away games and allows his players to take nights off? SSM kids know how to bring it every time they step on the ice.

[MNHockeyFan]

Do you not pay attention? I'm talking about 2012 when Benilde won state Shattuck beat them 5-2.

Or we could talk about 2013, when Benilde beat Shattuck by the same score, and then didn't even win their section to get to the State Tourney.

[The51]

Since 2006 Shattuck has had 32 players drafted in the NHL according to their website. Edina has 7 in that same time period and thats the school with the most I can think of off the top of my head, and no other schools that have more than 3.

Each season they choose players from around the world to come play for them. It is completely illogical to expect a city with a population of 50,000 to be able to compete with them it's as simple as the law of large numbers.

They consistently finish with around a .800 record in the Elite league, and you're gonna tell me if you split those kids up into their respective schools that that percentage is going to get worse?

I agree with the poster earlier who said it's comparing apples and oranges because Shattuck doesn't have to play by the same rules as the schools do, but come on use your head.


http://ssmhockey.org/nhl-draft-picks/

This list rivals the MSHSL as a whole let alone the league split up into 75 different teams. (Assuming about half of the schools are irrelevant to this discussion like the sleepy eyes and luverne's of the world)

Shattuck would win state 95-99% of the time.

[InYourFace09]

Since 2006 Shattuck has had 32 players drafted in the NHL according to their website. Edina has 7 in that same time period and thats the school with the most I can think of off the top of my head, and no other schools that have more than 3.

Each season they choose players from around the world to come play for them. It is completely illogical to expect a city with a population of 50,000 to be able to compete with them it's as simple as the law of large numbers.

They consistently finish with around a .800 record in the Elite league, and you're gonna tell me if you split those kids up into their respective schools that that percentage is going to get worse?

I agree with the poster earlier who said it's comparing apples and oranges because Shattuck doesn't have to play by the same rules as the schools do, but come on use your head.


http://ssmhockey.org/nhl-draft-picks/

This list rivals the MSHSL as a whole let alone the league split up into 75 different teams. (Assuming about half of the schools are irrelevant to this discussion like the sleepy eyes and luverne's of the world)

Shattuck would win state 95-99% of the time.

No response to the top 2 scorers being on the ice in the 2nd and 3rd periods of the 2012 Benilde game? Must have been given the wrong info.

[The51]

Since 2006 Shattuck has had 32 players drafted in the NHL according to their website. Edina has 7 in that same time period and thats the school with the most I can think of off the top of my head, and no other schools that have more than 3.

Each season they choose players from around the world to come play for them. It is completely illogical to expect a city with a population of 50,000 to be able to compete with them it's as simple as the law of large numbers.

They consistently finish with around a .800 record in the Elite league, and you're gonna tell me if you split those kids up into their respective schools that that percentage is going to get worse?

I agree with the poster earlier who said it's comparing apples and oranges because Shattuck doesn't have to play by the same rules as the schools do, but come on use your head.


http://ssmhockey.org/nhl-draft-picks/

This list rivals the MSHSL as a whole let alone the league split up into 75 different teams. (Assuming about half of the schools are irrelevant to this discussion like the sleepy eyes and luverne's of the world)

Shattuck would win state 95-99% of the time.

No response to the top 2 scorers being on the ice in the 2nd and 3rd periods of the 2012 Benilde game? Must have been given the wrong info.

Apparently I was, all I was doing was relaying info that was given to me. Whether or not they were on the ice doesn't change the fact that they beat the state champ 5-2 which is a pretty dominant win. Further more according to hockey hub the shots in that game were 38-17, that's pretty lopsided as well so its pretty clear to say they were a much better team than the state champion.

Interesting though that you chose to respond to a tiny detail of the discussion and not their record against elite league teams which in theory should be much better than any school's regular season team wouldn't you say?

[394 West]

Benilde won this game.

[sinbin]

Makes a bit of difference to the discussion whether BSM or SSM won. If you lose, you can always say after the fact, "we didn't care" and it's difficult to take that comment seriously. If you won and sat your first line in the 3rd, it makes more sense and has more credence.

[The51]

Shattuck won 5-2

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/game/show/20 ... rer=327899

[TheMNhockey1]

I said it before here but since some of you clearly missed it I'll say it again...

My comment about them not caring as much about the games against high school teams is not my opinion I am simply quoting one of their players, who was also the one that told me their top line sat on the bench the entire second and third period in their game against Benilde.

In the end that is irrelevant, the only fact that matters is the difference in next level players Shattuck produces with versus one of these high schools. When Shattuck is pulling in top talent from all over North America there's no way one city is going to be able to put up talent that matches that.

Shattuck would win the state tournament 19 times out of 20 if they played.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFM51NMVRk8
I see top line out there quite a bit

[MNHockeyFan]

Shattuck won 5-2

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/game/show/20 ... rer=327899

Benilde won 5-2
http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/game/show/35 ... rer=552560

STA won 3-2
http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/game/show/46 ... rer=552484

Breck tied 3-3
http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/game/show/20 ... rer=327971

These results don't exactly support your claim that "Shattuck would win state 95-99% of the time." I'll give you 75%, but 95% is 19 out of every 20 years. Plain and simple, upsets happen more often than that.

And this year, if it came down to Edina and SSM, I don't think Edina winning would be considered an upset. Unlike the Elite teams, they've been together all season under the tutelage of a very good coach, play four lines and actually have a system.

[old goalie85]

Edina looked Elite to me !!!

[394 West]

Shattuck won 5-2

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/game/show/20 ... rer=327899

Heinz, in Feb of 2012 BSM beat Shattuck 5-2 I was at the game.

http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/western ... -marys-5-2

It sure did not look like an upset. SSM also had all their big guys playing. I am sure SSM took the game seriously there was over 1000 people at the Rec which is about 950 more people than SSM is used to playing in front of