2014 NHL Draft - Any MN Kids?

Bonin2121 · Post by **Bonin2121** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:51 pm

Are you looking for answers to 1-10? lol

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:19 pm

Your right, poll responses and consensus are unlikely!

Maybe the solution is more Minn State tax incentives for new immigrant Swede and Finn squirt families with parents over 6 feet

observer · Post by **observer** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:04 am

Congrats to the drafted players!

I found it interesting that there was a spurt of Minnesota players picked in the 5th round and then hardly any in the 6th and 7th. If the selected Minnesota players are good enough to go in the 5th round then several others should have gone in the 6th and 7th.

Tigers33 · Post by **Tigers33** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:32 am

Ok let me just say this...everyone wants to throw blame on the development of hs hockey. Correct? That season is basically a 3-4 month season tops. Correct?

Maybe more blame needs to also go on the summer programs. That is typically where the development is going to happen. Whether that be the teams stp or an off season program. Same could be said for them not producing draft picks then I guess.

DrGaf · Post by **DrGaf** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:01 am

Tigers33 wrote:Ok let me just say this...everyone wants to throw blame on the development of hs hockey. Correct? That season is basically a 3-4 month season tops. Correct?

Maybe more blame needs to also go on the summer programs. That is typically where the development is going to happen. Whether that be the teams stp or an off season program. Same could be said for them not producing draft picks then I guess.

I blame the parents. Bad genetics.

The Exiled One · Post by **The Exiled One** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:02 am

It seems like a lot of assumptions are being made about the common mindset of USHSHO posters. There is no common mindset. Yes, we all have an interest in MSHSL hockey, but that doesn't mean we all share a common goal for it's future.

For myself, I'm a college hockey fan first and foremost. Second, I'm an association fan because of my kid. Third, I'm a Wild fan. Fourth, a MSHSL fan. I mostly read this board because so many future college players come from this league. I read finishyourcheck for the same purpose.

As a college fan, leaving HS early doesn't bother me at all as long as I think it's good for a kid's prospects. That typically means they already have a scholarship offer in hand. There are other times when it seems like a good idea to me, and others when it looks like a questionable decision. Either way, I don't usually claim to know what every kids' individual situation is.

Also as a college fan, I typically don't like when kids leave HS early for the WHL, but as long as they go into it with their eyes wide open, I guess it's their decision to make. I don't resent the WHL Minnesotans who make it to the NHL nor do I celebrate the many WHL kids who age out without a reasonable prospect of a future in pro hockey.

To summarize, every poster here has a different angle. Some see these kids as future D1 players, some see them as future WHL players, some see them as future NHL players, and some just see them as current HS players. Depending on your angle, the association/MSHSL system is either functional or broken. If it's broken, there's as many opinions on how to fix it as there are posters on this message board!

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:21 am

WestMetro wrote:A couple perspectives on the issue of U18s leaving for Juniors, Vs Stay in High School

1) Sheehy leaves early, misses draft. Who knows if he had stayed at BV
and maybe won State tourney? On the other hand, by leaving he
opened up more playing time for Rossini.

2) No one had Fidler on radar screen last fall. The kid playd HUGE in his
senior year, and goes in the 5th round. A related irony is perhaps he
would not have gotten the senior year playing time if Connor Hurley
hadn't left early the year before.

First off, If Edina's performance in the tourney this past March wasn't enough to convince you that NO team was on their level, nothing will. Sheehy wouldn't have made a diff in Burnsville beating Edina. More playing time for Rossini? Rossini is a d-man.

almostashappy · Post by **almostashappy** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:03 pm

Sats81 wrote:First off, If Edina's performance in the tourney this past March wasn't enough to convince you that NO team was on their level, nothing will. Sheehy wouldn't have made a diff in Burnsville beating Edina. More playing time for Rossini? Rossini is a d-man.

Season's over and I don't care to rehash end-of-season discussions, but I think you're looking back with green-colored glasses.

To say that "NO team was on their level" would imply (at least to me) that they completely dominated. We can argue whether they dominated the Tourney (I'd say that Eagan was, if not better, at least at their level). Much harder to argue that no team was at their level during the regular season. Or did I miss the hornets going undefeated?

As for Sheehy...you're right. Burnsville didn't need him to beat Edina during their only meeting last year.

green4 · Post by **green4** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:18 pm

almostashappy wrote:
Sats81 wrote:First off, If Edina's performance in the tourney this past March wasn't enough to convince you that NO team was on their level, nothing will. Sheehy wouldn't have made a diff in Burnsville beating Edina. More playing time for Rossini? Rossini is a d-man.

As for Sheehy...you're right. Burnsville didn't need him to beat Edina during their only meeting last year.

Edina and Bviile played twice this last year. Edina beat them at the Schwans

Bluewhitefan · Post by **Bluewhitefan** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:22 pm

almostashappy wrote:As for Sheehy...you're right. Burnsville didn't need him to beat Edina during their only meeting last year.

They met twice and split.

Mite-dad · Post by **Mite-dad** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:25 pm

If you look at the size of the kids in the Draft, it appears the average height is around 6' 1". Is it possible MNHockey and the high performance programs favor the smaller skilled kid? Maybe we're leaving our big, clumsy, but more likely to have NHL size kids behind. Just a thought. Probably a dumb one. LOL.

DrGaf · Post by **DrGaf** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:57 pm

Mite-dad wrote:If you look at the size of the kids in the Draft, it appears the average height is around 6' 1". Is it possible MNHockey and the high performance programs favor the smaller skilled kid? Maybe we're leaving our big, clumsy, but more likely to have NHL size kids behind. Just a thought. Probably a dumb one. LOL.

6'1" is a tall basketball player here. Fair point.

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:17 pm

almostashappy wrote:
Sats81 wrote:First off, If Edina's performance in the tourney this past March wasn't enough to convince you that NO team was on their level, nothing will. Sheehy wouldn't have made a diff in Burnsville beating Edina. More playing time for Rossini? Rossini is a d-man.
Season's over and I don't care to rehash end-of-season discussions, but I think you're looking back with green-colored glasses.

To say that "NO team was on their level" would imply (at least to me) that they completely dominated. We can argue whether they dominated the Tourney (I'd say that Eagan was, if not better, at least at their level). Much harder to argue that no team was at their level during the regular season. Or did I miss the hornets going undefeated?

As for Sheehy...you're right. Burnsville didn't need him to beat Edina during their only meeting last year.

No green colored glasses here. Eagan, was NOT on Edina's level. I have all the respect in the world for teams the Wildcats put together last few years, and they did play Edina well in the tourney, but Edina was definitely the better team.

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:14 pm

I think BVille with Sheehy could have gotten by Edina in a one game Section 2 playoff. Momentum would have been on their side this year. After all, they split during the season without Sheehy. Had they beaten them, I think they could have run the gauntlet at the state tourney.

On the flip side, I still think both Boeser and Rossinis stock was improved by Sheehys departure, not that anyone was overlooking them, and even though Rossini a different position on paper.

Yes everyone coming at things from a different angle.

For many, High School hockey comes first.

Personal reasons are kids and grandkids, friends at every arena, easy parking, under $10 to get in, close up seating for the best display of U18 amateur talent in any sport at any location in the country. Culminating in the highest drawing tourney for any U18 sport at any location in the county
.
A civic reason to put high school hockey first is supporting the huge investment in association and high school hockey infrastructure, and supporting the parents who got their kids that far.

This is what I hope Associations and MSHSL will find a way to protect from collapse.

After high school, hockey is a business pure and simple. The tentacles are reaching into youth hockey further any further each year.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:32 am

How do we get from

the best display of U18 amateur talent in any sport at any location in the country. Culminating in the highest drawing tourney for any U18 sport at any location in the county

to

find a way to protect from collapse

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:30 pm

InigoMontoya

If 30-40 of top underclassmen get picked off every year, there will eventually be less interest in the high school civic competition. Looking down the road 5 years, the number could rise to 75-100

In at least 5 Metro associations, for example, squirt and peewee parents are being drawn into programs across civic boundary lines with the inferred promise that their kids increased skill level will get them on to the junior level after one or two years of high school at age 16 or 17 , to help earn college scholarships or improve chances for WHL

The business interests reaching further and further down into youth hockey will continue. Money creates tentacles.

Many solutions to this have been proposed. SuperStar postulates about one solution earlier in this thread. There are numerous others on other threads. The State Association and High School Boards have been attempting to find expanded outside the box thinking to protect the Association/High School community/civic focused model. Which seems to be the most fair, given all the infrastructure investment at the community level, both at the rinks and in schools

However, the post high school business interests and parents of the top tiered talent have some powerful impetus. Not to be critical of their self interests. But, the community association and high school model could someday be lost in favor of a metro wide top tier skilled Midget or NTDP type system, with their own schedule and tourneys. If it happens, I will be there to see the talent, but Id rather see the talent in the high school setting and the the X in March with 18,000 per game.

SuperStar · Post by **SuperStar** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:36 pm

Article by Chris Dilks on the draft.

http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/2014-nh ... storylines

Ugly day for Minnesota high schools

While the battle rages on in the state of Minnesota about whether or not talented players need to leave high school prior to their senior season, the NHL made a pretty definitive statement on how they feel. Luc Snuggerud was the first player that played his senior season of high school hockey last season to be drafted, and he wasn't selected until the late fifth round, 141st overall, which was a significant drop from where he was ranked. A total of only four Minnesota high schoolers were selected in the draft.

Meanwhile, seven players that opted to leave the state of Minnesota to play junior hockey prior to their senior season were selected before Snuggerud was taken, and two more Minnesotans largely ignored in high school were selected after playing junior hockey.

It's by no means impossible for a player that chooses to stay in high school to reach the NHL, but for players that want to get drafted, the junior route appears to be the more attractive option.

WarmUpTheBus · Post by **WarmUpTheBus** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:31 pm

SuperStar wrote:Article by Chris Dilks on the draft.

http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/2014-nh ... storylines

Ugly day for Minnesota high schools

While the battle rages on in the state of Minnesota about whether or not talented players need to leave high school prior to their senior season, the NHL made a pretty definitive statement on how they feel. Luc Snuggerud was the first player that played his senior season of high school hockey last season to be drafted, and he wasn't selected until the late fifth round, 141st overall, which was a significant drop from where he was ranked. A total of only four Minnesota high schoolers were selected in the draft.

Meanwhile, seven players that opted to leave the state of Minnesota to play junior hockey prior to their senior season were selected before Snuggerud was taken, and two more Minnesotans largely ignored in high school were selected after playing junior hockey.

It's by no means impossible for a player that chooses to stay in high school to reach the NHL, but for players that want to get drafted, the junior route appears to be the more attractive option.

What a pile of garbage. This author has no way of knowing where those other 7 players selected would have been drafted had they stayed in Minnesota. Maybe higher.
Also, I assume all seven did at one time play Minnesota High School hockey so I'd say it was a beautiful day for Minnesota High School hockey.

SuperStar · Post by **SuperStar** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:42 pm

WarmUpTheBus wrote:
SuperStar wrote:Article by Chris Dilks on the draft.

http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/2014-nh ... storylines

Ugly day for Minnesota high schools

While the battle rages on in the state of Minnesota about whether or not talented players need to leave high school prior to their senior season, the NHL made a pretty definitive statement on how they feel. Luc Snuggerud was the first player that played his senior season of high school hockey last season to be drafted, and he wasn't selected until the late fifth round, 141st overall, which was a significant drop from where he was ranked. A total of only four Minnesota high schoolers were selected in the draft.

Meanwhile, seven players that opted to leave the state of Minnesota to play junior hockey prior to their senior season were selected before Snuggerud was taken, and two more Minnesotans largely ignored in high school were selected after playing junior hockey.

It's by no means impossible for a player that chooses to stay in high school to reach the NHL, but for players that want to get drafted, the junior route appears to be the more attractive option.

What a pile of garbage. This author has no way of knowing where those other 7 players selected would have been drafted had they stayed in Minnesota. Maybe higher.
Also, I assume all seven did at one time play Minnesota High School hockey so I'd say it was a beautiful day for Minnesota High School high school hockey.

You are correct. But that fact that we will never know and these are the fact - only 4 drafted.

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:53 pm

Tend to agree the Dilks article is overly pessimistic in its portrayal of Minn talent. US borns are closing in on Canadian borns and are equal to European borns; and MN born kids are still 50% more than next closest state. That's pretty good. All the kids came up in the Minn youth hockey system played high school for at least part of their career, so that's saying something in and of itself. Then the ongoing debate about which is the better path for the underclassmen to take, and what the future holds in the next 5-10 years.

Along the way in this thread, I was going to ask if others had info why Nick Wolff was not drafted. That's the one that puzzled me the most, given his size. And he finished the season and state tournament strong. Do others have info on this?

Lazy Scout · Post by **Lazy Scout** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:56 pm

The article is garbage. What about all the kids who left for juniors that were not drafted? To say you have to leave High School hockey in order to get drafted is ridiculous. Since 2000 the draft has consistently averaged 23% Minnesotans, higher than any other state. Why hasn't this percentage increased with the amount of kids leaving for juniors each year?

I still don't believe that 6 months in the USHL vs. 4 months in high school will make or break a player for the NHL. The old saying goes " the cream rises to the top." If you are that good they will find you no matter where you play.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:25 pm

Lazy Scout wrote:The article is garbage. What about all the kids who left for juniors that were not drafted? To say you have to leave High School hockey in order to get drafted is ridiculous. Since 2000 the draft has consistently averaged 23% Minnesotans, higher than any other state. Why hasn't this percentage increased with the amount of kids leaving for juniors each year?

I still don't believe that 6 months in the USHL vs. 4 months in high school will make or break a player for the NHL. The old saying goes " the cream rises to the top." If you are that good they will find you no matter where you play.

Your common sense filled post might be an irritant to some folks.

The number of high draft choices from this state (MN roots) are going down as the number of kids leaving is going way up.

Have/had a great thing here..

puckbreath · Post by **puckbreath** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:26 pm

WestMetro wrote:InigoMontoya

If 30-40 of top underclassmen get picked off every year, there will eventually be less interest in the high school civic competition. Looking down the road 5 years, the number could rise to 75-100

In at least 5 Metro associations, for example, squirt and peewee parents are being drawn into programs across civic boundary lines with the inferred promise that their kids increased skill level will get them on to the junior level after one or two years of high school at age 16 or 17 , to help earn college scholarships or improve chances for WHL

The business interests reaching further and further down into youth hockey will continue. Money creates tentacles.

Many solutions to this have been proposed. SuperStar postulates about one solution earlier in this thread. There are numerous others on other threads. The State Association and High School Boards have been attempting to find expanded outside the box thinking to protect the Association/High School community/civic focused model. Which seems to be the most fair, given all the infrastructure investment at the community level, both at the rinks and in schools

However, the post high school business interests and parents of the top tiered talent have some powerful impetus. Not to be critical of their self interests. But, the community association and high school model could someday be lost in favor of a metro wide top tier skilled Midget or NTDP type system, with their own schedule and tourneys. If it happens, I will be there to see the talent, but Id rather see the talent in the high school setting and the the X in March with 18,000 per game.

I've said this before.

I bet in the not so distant future, there are metro "elite" teams, with the rest of the state fielding only regional teams.

Money is a big reason why, among other reasons.

puckbreath · Post by **puckbreath** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:34 pm

Lazy Scout wrote:The article is garbage. What about all the kids who left for juniors that were not drafted? To say you have to leave High School hockey in order to get drafted is ridiculous. Since 2000 the draft has consistently averaged 23% Minnesotans, higher than any other state. Why hasn't this percentage increased with the amount of kids leaving for juniors each year?

I still don't believe that 6 months in the USHL vs. 4 months in high school will make or break a player for the NHL. The old saying goes " the cream rises to the top." If you are that good they will find you no matter where you play.

Exactly.

Though I would also add, "..............will make or break a player for college hockey", to the equation, especially since very few even get that far, let alone the NHL.

I've always found it silly as hell, for a kid to leave hs early, when the *best* case *realistic* scenario for him is he's going to play his four years of college hockey, and that's it, done, and that's if he's lucky, what with the high competition for spots even there, let alone the NHL or non-NHL pro hockey.

And without knowing the figures for sure, I'd bet that's the case for most of these kids that leave early; college would be their apex.

Of course, reality tends not to come into such decisions very often.

Tigers33 · Post by **Tigers33** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:15 pm

A kid that leaves after his 9th grade year or before is completely different then a kid that leaves for his senior year.

How many of those kids played 2-3+years of hs.

Nanne
Fidler
Snuggerud
Spinner
C perry
Johnson?
Dougherty?
Others?