City Pages Cover Story Part 2: Game Misconduct 2

[SidneysDogHouse]

I think the article did not have much new value in it. Everyone on this Board has probably been around enough rinks and Raddissons to have heard most of the stories before.

Basically, he tried to establish the following things, all of which are pretty much undeniably true:

1. People will act in their own self interest more often than not.

2. Some people will value education more than hockey and some will value hockey more than education.

3. Some hockey coaches curse sometimes.

4. Some adults are willing to make false promises to teenagers.

5. Parents will shop around for the situation they think is best for their kids.

6. A school or league can be great for one guy and wrong for the next guy.


None of these principles should surprise anyone. And none are a serious threat to MN HS Hockey. Even with many of the top players gone, parity has made for a very entertaining 2014-15 season. (A little too entertaining for my team some nights),

AMEN!

[Winter is Coming]

I think the article did not have much new value in it. Everyone on this Board has probably been around enough rinks and Raddissons to have heard most of the stories before.

Basically, he tried to establish the following things, all of which are pretty much undeniably true:

1. People will act in their own self interest more often than not.

2. Some people will value education more than hockey and some will value hockey more than education.

3. Some hockey coaches curse sometimes.

4. Some adults are willing to make false promises to teenagers.

5. Parents will shop around for the situation they think is best for their kids.

6. A school or league can be great for one guy and wrong for the next guy.


None of these principles should surprise anyone. And none are a serious threat to MN HS Hockey. Even with many of the top players gone, parity has made for a very entertaining 2014-15 season. (A little too entertaining for my team some nights),

The biggest threat to MN HS Hockey is MN HS Hockey. They are going to have to do something (add more games comes to mind) in order to compete with the Jr level that is really ramping up right now. I know that teams within MN have this "gentleman's agreement" that says that they will not poach kids but the teams in outlying states have no such agreement. Look at the explosion of teams in the last 2 years all of which consider MN to be prime hunting grounds. The coaches for these teams often times have 651 or 612 area codes on their phones so they know the landscape too. They are really pushing these kids to leave to play hockey. Sure, lots of kids will stay home and play hockey but I think that we will see more and more of them leave so that they can keep up with the kids who are already leaving. This will hit the smaller, outlying programs hardest I think which make sense. If you were a good player and were the only one who plays for some small town team in outer MN who has no chance of making state or getting found would you want to stay and play? Probably not. MN HS Hockey is going to end up like hockey in WI and other states where the kids who are good enough to leave to play Jrs do and the rest of them stay and play HS hockey.

[old goalie85]

We have been hearing that the sky is falling since my oldest started hockey. [he's 21]. I have a son and daughter playing high school right now and "it's still there" and I'm sure it will be when my 6th and 7th graders get there. I think it is great for folks to be able to choose whats best for their families, but high school hockey is not going to die.

[Bluewhitefan]

First Part was pretty good.

I think this part does a bit better in the exposure. Of course, not much new for regulars here.


http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2015 ... itself.php

Some pretty good stuff here:

"The chance to play with his brother landed Alec on St. Louis Park's varsity team when he was in eighth grade. But everyone knew it was a one-year deal."

Really? Call him naive, but I'm not sure Shjon Podein would agree


Keith Jungels spends hundreds of hours at rinks. His son Chase plays for Benilde-St. Margaret's. Another kid plays bantams, and Keith coaches his daughter's U12 team in Edina.

Yet he still can't understand what's stoking the belief of so many parents that their kid will someday be crashing the net at Madison Square Garden.

"When I think about it, I'd say it's more ego than anything else."


This quote speaks for itself.

[Winter is Coming]

We have been hearing that the sky is falling since my oldest started hockey. [he's 21]. I have a son and daughter playing high school right now and "it's still there" and I'm sure it will be when my 6th and 7th graders get there. I think it is great for folks to be able to choose whats best for their families, but high school hockey is not going to die.

I did not say it was gonna die. Look at what I said. It is gonna continue to lose talent and I stand by that. Is it gonna die? No. Is it going to lose talent and (I think) that loss is going to accelerate as junior teams proliferate through out the country. Sure, your kids will be able to play high school hockey, but I think that their buddies who want to move on and who have the talent to do so are going to find lots and lots of places to move onto.

[Stick Save]

First Part was pretty good.

I think this part does a bit better in the exposure. Of course, not much new for regulars here.


http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2015 ... itself.php

Some pretty good stuff here:

"The chance to play with his brother landed Alec on St. Louis Park's varsity team when he was in eighth grade. But everyone knew it was a one-year deal."

Really? Call him naive, but I'm not sure Shjon Podein would agree

You effin' liar! Just kidding Bluewhitefan, but I recently learned an undeniable truth...that "Some hockey coaches curse sometimes." I guess I would have to agree that coaches commonly throw slang around behind the closed doors of their locker rooms. But I only know of one coach in this state who would show such lack of integrity, self-control and aggressiveness as to say what he said toward some hockey parent. Like he's John Gotti.

Find me one coach who has done this. Oh, and on the record to a Minneapolis newspaper that reaches the everywhere online. What an amateur. When will this guy be met with some kind of accountability, for the sake and good reputation of MN High School Hockey already??

But to address your comment regarding Shjon Podein, for those of us who lived through the "Freshman leaves Benilde mid-season for the WHL" thread and lived to tell about it, I believe this was covered. AB played for the WI Fire team and it folded prior to his 8th grade season. He was technically still a Bantam but made the SLP Varsity team. Coach Podein knew it was a one-year commitment as they had not made a decision on high school.

It would be tough to find someone who doesn't like Shjon Podein, but bringing his name into a discussion about commitment is probably not a good idea. He bailed from the team as well after just his 2nd season.

Not sure if Ken Pauly convinced him to leave.

[alcloseshaver]

Makes one long for Tony Sarsland to weigh in...

[Nuts&Bolts]

Pauley and Podien are probably polar opposites. What Podien probably said after he learned AB was leaving would be something like "Would love for you to stay and think I can help but understand you need to do what's best. Good luck to you." Pauley on the other hand? Well we know the history of what happened and now know a lot more on how he said it and how he's acted since. A disgrace to MN hockey, coaches in general and BSM.

[MNHockeyFan]

Pauley on the other hand? Well we know the history of what happened and now know a lot more on how he said it and how he's acted since. A disgrace to MN hockey, coaches in general and BSM.

Regarding Pauly's supposed use of bad language, I wouldn't necessarily accept what was quoted in the article at face value. The author quoted one person who obviously has an axe to grind. A good reporter would at least make an attempt to get Pauly on the record to get his side of the story.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

Pauley on the other hand? Well we know the history of what happened and now know a lot more on how he said it and how he's acted since. A disgrace to MN hockey, coaches in general and BSM.

Regarding Pauly's supposed use of bad language, I wouldn't necessarily accept what was quoted in the article at face value. The author quoted one person who obviously has an axe to grind. A good reporter would at least make an attempt to get Pauly on the record to get his side of the story.

but, but, but, isn't that a quote from Paully? I don't know the author and perhaps it may not have happened but I guess when I see quotes from Pauly It means Pauly said it. are you saying its taken out of context ? or second hand reported in which case it shouldn't be in quotes

[observer]

Ah, to be a fly on the wall.

Based on how Pauley handled Baer when he was upset makes me wonder what he's saying about the article author now that he may be a little upset.

[InigoMontoya]

With regard to folks leaving their home associations to go to MN Made, maybe the author should have done a little digging to find out the real reasons why people leave those associations to go get the better option. It's not always chasing the NHL (especially those with girls in the house).

In our instance, the reasons were:

1) Better competition
2) Twice as many practice hours and the equivalent of 20 more games
3) Dryland
4) Per hour of training MN Made is 30% cheaper than our home association
5) Having a coach who can demonstrate drills

That, to me, is the story that wasn't told, that MN Made is exposing associations that need to improve their governance and what they provide to their members. That will be the true reason Association hockey will go away in certain Minnesota towns, if it ever does.

My nephew plays for an association like Wayzata, OMGA, Edina etc and his coaches all have been superb, and he is getting a lot out of it. I dont think an umbrella term for "association hockey experience" fits everyone. Of course there are those associations I heard that have lost it, like FL, Anoka, Shakopee etc that have kids going to MM for mite-sqrts because of a bad experience or experiences. But I dont think anyone believes MM is a good fit for those kids in strong associations, its more of a substitute for bad ones. and on the last note, community based hockey is what we have to keep alive. I encourage all parents to get involved in their hockey board if they have issues. My experience is that board members are only around so long and things change.

A little harsh on FL, Anoka, Shakopee, etc. If you walk into MM, you'll find plenty of green socks and Lakeville hockey jackets. And thanks for the 'if you have issues, just be the board president' comment; we haven't had one of those for a while - my experience is that bad board members drive good people away, and recruit people just like them to take their spots when they leave.

[Tron]

A little harsh on FL, Anoka, Shakopee, etc. If you walk into MM, you'll find plenty of green socks and Lakeville hockey jackets. And thanks for the 'if you have issues, just be the board president' comment; we haven't had one of those for a while - my experience is that bad board members drive good people away, and recruit people just like them to take their spots when they leave.

Not harsh at all. Ive personally known folks in FL, Anoka, Shakopee that have lost all hope in their association and no other option was left but MM. And when did I say "Be the board president"??. If you read what I said, I implied getting involved with the association. No association is perfect, even the hockey machine ones, but the more people cry in their beer about it being unfair and political, and then walk into MM thinking its fair and not-political are kidding themselves. But thats the "Grass is always greener" mentality. Sure a some associations are run but a bunch of goons, I dont doubt that, but you do whats best for your kid in the long run. My experience with boards is that they are there for a short time (per the charter) and then leave. My thoughts are if you havent tried getting involved, going to meetings, asking questions etc but then whine to everyone how Association hockey is "weak" or "too weak for your child", you are the problem, not the system.

[@hockeytweet]

This is funny. Are people really that upset about Pauly using the F bomb in a City Pages article?
I love it when people put on the profanity police badge and declare a person unfit to represent an organization because of a word used--publicly or not. People can't be this puritanical and old fashioned, can they?

Rather than focus on the material and facts in the article, a personal taste issue gets people on this board all revved up. Nuts&Bolts calls him a disgrace. I don't know Pauly, and I don't have a child at BSM, but I read the article too. Using a curse word just doesn't warrant the anger.

TerryMoore is spot on. Especially point #1 regarding self interest, although "more often than not" could be worded even stronger. In the high dollar world of hockey, it could have been, "darn near all of the time". (Notice I used darn? I chickened out)

[imlisteningtothefnsong]

It's not the f-bomb that caught my eye, it was the fact he called a former players father an effin' liar. Those are "let's go for a walk outside" words. I don't know Mr. Baer, or his kid and do not have any idea how KP is as a coach or a man. However, if AB got tossed off of BSM for visiting the Giants, I know all I need to know about KP.

[AMERICAN]

I think the article did not have much new value in it. Everyone on this Board has probably been around enough rinks and Raddissons to have heard most of the stories before.

Basically, he tried to establish the following things, all of which are pretty much undeniably true:

1. People will act in their own self interest more often than not.

2. Some people will value education more than hockey and some will value hockey more than education.

3. Some hockey coaches curse sometimes.

4. Some adults are willing to make false promises to teenagers.

5. Parents will shop around for the situation they think is best for their kids.

6. A school or league can be great for one guy and wrong for the next guy.


None of these principles should surprise anyone. And none are a serious threat to MN HS Hockey. Even with many of the top players gone, parity has made for a very entertaining 2014-15 season. (A little too entertaining for my team some nights),

AND
7. Some people are dumb enough to speak with the media to air their dirty laundry.

[MNHockeyFan]

However, if AB got tossed off of BSM for visiting the Giants, I know all I need to know about KP.

Not to re-hash an old story, but according to reports at the time Pauly warned the kid there would be consequences. It was right before playoffs and he easily could have waited a couple of weeks. Instead, he chose to do what was more important to him.

[Stick Save]

@hockeytweet. My bringing it up was not in a puritan way. It's not that he swore, it's how he swore. They are talking about guerilla recruiting. Baer is talking about it, Pauly then agrees that this type of recruiting happens - but of course only at the other schools.

Baer seems to imply there may have been some of this recruiting from BSM toward them. Pauly doesn't just say something like, "No, that's not true." He instead responds with, "Bob Baer is a f-kin'' liar!" ...with an explanantion point. A lot of people know exactly how that sounded coming from his mouth to the reporter.

And if there is any truth to BSM recruiting Baer? Then his angry response is even more disturbing, bordering on disgraceful.

I'll have to agree with imlisteningtothefnsong, what he said in a very public interview sound like fighting words to me, towards a hockey dad who doesn't seem to be interested in one. So take this example, along with a strew of others and KP is somewhat of a bully in both word and deed.

And pretty amateurish IMO for someone who serves as a school teacher, coach and head of the coaches association.

[old goalie85]

Who the F cares about that effin private school coach !!

[InigoMontoya]

A little harsh on FL, Anoka, Shakopee, etc. If you walk into MM, you'll find plenty of green socks and Lakeville hockey jackets. And thanks for the 'if you have issues, just be the board president' comment; we haven't had one of those for a while - my experience is that bad board members drive good people away, and recruit people just like them to take their spots when they leave.

Not harsh at all. Ive personally known folks in FL, Anoka, Shakopee that have lost all hope in their association and no other option was left but MM. And when did I say "Be the board president"??. If you read what I said, I implied getting involved with the association. No association is perfect, even the hockey machine ones, but the more people cry in their beer about it being unfair and political, and then walk into MM thinking its fair and not-political are kidding themselves. But thats the "Grass is always greener" mentality. Sure a some associations are run but a bunch of goons, I dont doubt that, but you do whats best for your kid in the long run. My experience with boards is that they are there for a short time (per the charter) and then leave. My thoughts are if you havent tried getting involved, going to meetings, asking questions etc but then whine to everyone how Association hockey is "weak" or "too weak for your child", you are the problem, not the system.

What was your Shakopee buddy's response when you explained he was the problem?

[old goalie85]

Or your Forest Lake buddy ??

[Tron]

Or your Forest Lake buddy ??

He's not my buddy, guy

[keepyourheadup]

Just a thought here....I'm not convinced that we have a legion of parents that believe their child is destined for stardom as much as have a growing number of entities selling fear. Fear that your child will be left behind, fear that your child will not be developed, fear that your child will not get the proper exposure. Its like crack for hockey parents, my god how do I not give little Johny every chance to pursue his dream? I was blessed enough to have two healthy sons, both love the game but for one HS was the end of the line, the other has been fortunate enough to continue at the college level.

I'm proud to say we never gave Bernie a single penny, his bulk mailings alone irritated me enough to not pursue that. Nothing personal against Bernie but the guy never really played, have you seen him skate? He is a businessman....period. Minnesota 88's... He claims to have developed these kids, truth is most of them were Blades till they aged out and he then just compiled all the best players in the cities and coached them as 16 and 17 year olds. This group of kids was pretty much developed before he had anything to do with them.

Choice is a good thing and I don't begrudge anyone for exercising their right to do so but using the 88's to sell his program is a bunch of baloney. Look at it this way, why no pictures since then...where is the proof that they do the job any better than associations? I'm sure that for some MM is the right choice and I respect that but if your reason for doing it is because you've been convinced that your child will be left behind then they've got you right were they want you.

[Froggy Richards]

Just a thought here....I'm not convinced that we have a legion of parents that believe their child is destined for stardom as much as have a growing number of entities selling fear. Fear that your child will be left behind, fear that your child will not be developed, fear that your child will not get the proper exposure. Its like crack for hockey parents, my god how do I not give little Johny every chance to pursue his dream? I was blessed enough to have two healthy sons, both love the game but for one HS was the end of the line, the other has been fortunate enough to continue at the college level.

I'm proud to say we never gave Bernie a single penny, his bulk mailings alone irritated me enough to not pursue that. Nothing personal against Bernie but the guy never really played, have you seen him skate? He is a businessman....period. Minnesota 88's... He claims to have developed these kids, truth is most of them were Blades till they aged out and he then just compiled all the best players in the cities and coached them as 16 and 17 year olds. This group of kids was pretty much developed before he had anything to do with them.

Choice is a good thing and I don't begrudge anyone for exercising their right to do so but using the 88's to sell his program is a bunch of baloney. Look at it this way, why no pictures since then...where is the proof that they do the job any better than associations? I'm sure that for some MM is the right choice and I respect that but if your reason for doing it is because you've been convinced that your child will be left behind then they've got you right were they want you.

I agree with this, good post. It is a lot about fear. Their slogan is what jumps out at me the most. "Great Hockey players aren't born, they're Made." Anyone who has been around the game for awhile knows this simply isn't true. Most of them are in fact, born. 99% of the players in the NHL are there because they were blessed with God-Given talent. Of those kids, the ones who also put in the work have a shot. You cannot get there without the talent. And the training that Mites and Squirts get will simply make them better Mites and Squirts. Nobody has any idea how good anyone will be until they hit puberty. If he changed his slogan to, "Great Mites and Squirts aren't born, they're Made," then I could buy it. Otherwise, that slogan is just a clever marketing tool at best, and a flat-out lie at worst. As far as the 88's go, in his Defense, every AAA club markets this way. They take great players who are already developed and try to make it seem like it's because they played for them. We all know this is crap. AAA Hockey does not develop players. It's simply a reward and recognition for all of the hard work they've put in prior.

[The Exiled One]

Their slogan is what jumps out at me the most. "Great Hockey players aren't born, they're Made." Anyone who has been around the game for awhile knows this simply isn't true. Most of them are in fact, born. 99% of the players in the NHL are there because they were blessed with God-Given talent. Of those kids, the ones who also put in the work have a shot.

I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a lot of kids have that kind of athletic potential, just that they choose not to pursue that course. I think any kid who is extraordinarily passionate about hockey and moderately athletic could get at least to the NAHL level, possibly beyond. Or, they can be moderately passionate and extraordinarily talented.

The problem is, most kids are moderately passionate and moderately talented but their parents believe they're more than that. My kids fit this bill. I don't think my squirt knows how much work some of his teammates put in due to sheer passion for the game. Some of them are shooting pucks, stick handling their wooden egg, or skating in the backyard or at the local park nearly every free moment of their existence WITHOUT the explicit direction of their parents. My squirt does some of that and probably feels like he's doing it ALL the time. He's not. I don't push him. I just volunteer to skate with him once in a while. He enjoys that.

The problem with Minnesota Made is that the parents often feel like this is going to make their kid great! It won't. To your point FR, it just makes for overly trained mites and squirts. If those kids aren't as passionate for the game as their parents, then all of the training they do is done at the rink. That's not enough. In fact, pushing them too hard with organized training might burn the passion right out of them.