EGF vs. Crookston

[State Champ 97]

Well Shanty I said a bit surprised not outright shocked

Your right with the middle three, but I would include DL in that group and Park Rapids is making a push for it although I see dark days for both of them ahead.

[Irishmans Shanty]

I'm not so old and jaded that I reject change or in this case be opposed to adding new members to a clique. Caliber wise, DL is there and recently Park can make the claim to become a member of the "middle class" as well.

But from a geographic point and a historical one as well, they are still on the outside looking in. The "middle three" play each other home and home every season and they do it at every level. The three communties are nearly identical in size and cultural makeup. Not much is ever known about the southern boys because you just don't rub elbows with them enough on the rink, ball field, or even the linx.

The "middle three" are just that, three. Not even the behemothly more popular schools to the north could ever penetrate this average, but extremely exclusive club.

[State Champ 97]

But from a geographic point and a historical one as well, they are still on the outside looking in. The "middle three" play each other home and home every season and they do it at every level.

You maybe right on this one, but I would have thought Crookston and maybe even EGF would have played DL growing up quite a few times. TRF maybe not. DL and Crx are what an hour-hour and a half apart?

[Irishmans Shanty]

I'm not up to speed with the youth levels as much anymore, but DL wasn't in the same district so they often weren't on the schedule. And for Park Rapids, well, Jr. Gold maybe, I don't know.

My only memory of going to DL was their wide dashers in front of the boxes.

[State Champ 97]

And the brick wall behind the boards on the other side.
Anyway, I guess I would have thought they would have played each other a few times regardless of district. Park Rapids is understandable. I think their youth teams only go south and east for games. Not sure on that as I am not really up to speed on all of the different youth districts and things either.
Congrats to Crookston on a big win. That should help making the seeding meeting even more interesting. I'd like to be a fly on the wall at that one.

[the mullet]

I as of right now i think the seeding meeting will be very interesting. But there are a lot of section games yet to be played. And once again no matter how well the "middle teams" do we all the the big kahuna's will be oh so boistrious and push everyone around at the meeting. I mean come on 8A doesn't even play at a neutral site. Can we really expect the seeding meeting to help out "middle teams"?????

[State Champ 97]

Don't forget though that one of those middle teams is the host this year. It will help EGF.

[the mullet]

Don't forget though that one of those middle teams is the host this year. It will help EGF.

My point exactly, year in and year out who are the three favorites to win section 8A.........Warroad, TRF, and EGF right???? So what do they do......they hold the section Tourny at......suprise, suprise Warroad, TRF, and EGF on alternating years. How much sense does this make?

[Irishmans Shanty]

Where would you play it?

[the mullet]

Hey i know it is a tough situation because of travel and all to find a neutral venue. Have it in Bemidji or Moorehead.

[Irishmans Shanty]

I'd be on board with your idea of having a neutral site but when I look back over the years, I don't see how many times TR or EGF and more recently Warroad, won a section title because of the venue.

TRF has one title, I think they would have won it regardless of site. EGF has a sprinkling of titles and I think they were very worthy of all those trips to St. Paul. And Warroad, maybe once (2000), possibly twice that home ice was the difference.

I see your case, but Bemidji or Moorhead isn't going to take it. Best chance is DL or Park improving or Building a facility that would make 8A put them in the rotation.

[State Champ 97]

I think Park has enough financial stress at this point. Remodeling the arena I would think is way down on the list. The Bemidji site has been said before. If we get the new events center here that would be an option I think the section would have to look at. Elliot may know more on the status of that building.

[State Champ 97]

I'm sure EGF, TRF, and Warroad would strongly object to this plan how ever.

[the mullet]

I'd be on board with your idea of having a neutral site but when I look back over the years, I don't see how many times TR or EGF and more recently Warroad, won a section title because of the venue.

TRF has one title, I think they would have won it regardless of site. EGF has a sprinkling of titles and I think they were very worthy of all those trips to St. Paul. And Warroad, maybe once (2000), possibly twice that home ice was the difference.

I see your case, but Bemidji or Moorhead isn't going to take it. Best chance is DL or Park improving or Building a facility that would make 8A put them in the rotation.

Why wouldn't bemidji take it? Section 8AA could play their section tourny at TRF everyone is neutral this way, driving distance isn't bad, it make so much sense to me. I think every other section is neutral. And another thing in the other sections the quarter-final game is played at the higher seeds place. Section 8a also doesn't do this? Why so backwards or are they just taking the road less traveled?

[flyingV]

DL hockey returned last year and this to playing a "real" hockey youth schedule, including most section 8 northern teams. The program went down the get more W's, play B hockey, build self-confidence, and all that BS path for a few years. Now the youth are traveling Nort to play (or try to play) your old school teams.

And yes neutral site HS section site is needed, try driving DL to Warroad 2-3 times in a school week.

[Irishmans Shanty]

It is an inherited system from the once class era when section 8 consisted of at least 20 schools. The section tournament (final for many teams back then was the goal. To be able to square off against or play in the same building as the big boys was the ultimate goal for the RLFs, LOWs, Crosby-Irontons, DLs, Hallocks, or Wadenas.

Back then the big boys rarely played the little boys as seeding meant everything. The "middle three" for instance never played nearby RLF because a win meant nothing and a loss could be paralyzing come the seeding meeting. LOW maybe got Warroad once, I doubt they went home and home then.

The section 8 tourney was "the show". Geographically it made sense for TR and EGF to host, plus nobody else had a facility to house 3-5,000 people. Brainerd @ Roseau or Warroad @ Fergy on a school night isn't fair. One location for final 8 was the only option.

[Flin Flon]

This is a age old topic but it has been voted on by the coaches and can never seem to get a majority vote. Maybe if Crox gets a new arena in the next few years it will be on a 4 year rotation. It is a big revenue booster for the teams that host the tournament. They sell advertising for programs and the gate is always big because one of the three teams who host are usually in the semi's and championship. So It is a no brainer until some other programs get the facility to host it will stay in TRF Warroad and EGF. It makes the most money in those towns for the section. Why move it to Bemidji when they would lose gate money if it was moved to some other site. It is only an advantage for one team every 3 years and as they say you have to beat everybody weather at home or not.

[Irishmans Shanty]

And yes neutral site HS section site is needed

Outstate hockey sections just can't do it. If metro sections can converge at Mariucci or the Coleseum that's great. But to the 7s and 8s of the world someone is going to get an advantage once every three years as FF said.
Adding Bemidji St. to the rotation, possibly. But maybe BSU doesn't want it, maybe it's not economically worth it for them to tie up their facility. Also, why would the section rent something that they can probably get for nothing in their own communities.

Warroad in the rotation, I didn't agree with it when they got in. At the time nobody else was playing on an Olympic sheet. Not only was the travel arguable for everyone other than Hallock and LOW, but the rink itself was an advantage. If Warroad got in the rotation it would certainly swing south if one of the participating schools had a facility for it.

[riverman]

this is somewhat off the subject but the advertising and the gate go to sec. 8 not the host site. the host gets the concessions. Sec. 8 has voted to keep it rotating between the 3 sites rather than just in trf. Which by the way is a loss of 8 to 12 thousand dollars per year on the years it is held in warroad and egf. Now wouldn't it be nice to have that extra money in the sec which could be given to other communities as grants to help improve the smaller arenas like rlf, kcc, bagley, park rapids, dl crox ect? as each community puts forth the effort to upgrade, sec 8 could help out with a $10,000 grant. maybe not every year but occasionally. These smaller towns have a harder time raising funds but we still need them to be successfull in the sec. or what is left will always have to drive 2-3 hundred miles for a game. The goal should be to help lift the level of hockey in the whole sec. keep in mind that RLF aND KCC work and play hard and are never more than about 3 good players away from being in the finals.

[Devils]

this is somewhat off the subject but the advertising and the gate go to sec. 8 not the host site. the host gets the concessions. Sec. 8 has voted to keep it rotating between the 3 sites rather than just in trf. Which by the way is a loss of 8 to 12 thousand dollars per year on the years it is held in warroad and egf.

Why is it a loss of of 8-12 thousand dollars when the tourny is not held in TRF? Advertising and gate is that much less in Warroad and EGF?

[Flin Flon]

There is no way that TRF makes that much more money than EGF in Gate! Maybe in Warroad because of the longer trip for fans to drive but in EGF you have to consider that they have many hockey fans across the river that attend. Where do you get your facts from riverman?

[riverman]

yes it is gate and program sales. egf and warroad in the last times they hosted was about 2000 fans each. in trf there were i believe about 4400 fans but remember about 6 to 8 hundred were comp tickets (bands, players coaches ect. but you have those every year.) i did not pull the numbers out of the air. the information was garnered talking to a sec 8 bd member. i would suggest others do the same and get the info from them. i understand thier answer to it all was " It's not all about just the money.
and i agree with that but i think its about making the tourney available to as many fans as possible. Its a big section. park rapids to warroad is a long way as is baudette to egf. trf reduces the furthest drives by about an hour making the trip more tolerable by many. and yes one would think the draw from ND could be large but we need to realize that they too have tourneys going on in as many sports as we do. I do agree there may be an advantage to warroad due to rink size in the gardens but egf and trf have lost as many games on thier home ice as they have probably won. to win this section you got to be good. and thats what keeps sec 8a the best sec in the state, competitive year in and out with probably the lowest enrollments of most sections

[Devils]

2000 total ticket sales? These are numbers I have never seen because they are not posted anywhere, but 2000 tickets for a tournament is not correct. May be possible for EGF's Championship game in '04 when they were not in it, as for '01 when EGF was in the finals there was well over 3500 in the arena during that one game alone.

Rotating Sites is not about money, or making sure the tournament is available to more fans, but giving a neutral site to host the tournament. Since there is no neutral arena that's convenient in section 8 rotate it between the three biggest arenas in the section so there is home ice advantage only once every three years.

[the mullet]

[quoteRotating Sites is not about money, or making sure the tournament is available to more fans, but giving a neutral site to host the tournament. Since there is no neutral arena that's convenient in section 8 rotate it between the three biggest arenas in the section so there is home ice advantage only once every three years.[/quote]


Once every three years, NO, there is home ice to someone every year.

[Devils]

Sorry I'll make it read this.

Rotating Sites is not about money, or making sure the tournament is available to more fans, but giving a neutral site to host the tournament. Since there is no neutral arena that's convenient in section 8 rotate it between the three biggest arenas in the section so there is home ice advantage to the same team once every three years.