Private School Trash talk thread

[BlueLineSpecial]

Had a chance to speak with someone close to the Breck boys hockey team this weekend. And by close I mean employed by Breck, not a random parent. Interesting perspective on staying in A, and probably an indication they aren't moving up anytime soon.

During our hockey discussion (and knowing I'm from Hill) I asked if they have considered moving up to AA. My question was instantly met with disgust. This person informed me that their high school has less than 400 students. How could they possibly compete with schools that have classes double the size of their entire school? How could they compete with the private schools that have nearly double the student body? When I brought up that the school pulls from the entire metro and can't be compared to a small town with similar numbers, they didn't have much of an answer. Just repeatedly referenced their student body population.

Anyway, interesting to see into the mind of a metro private school program in A and thought I would pass it along.

[Ogie]

Had a chance to speak with someone close to the Breck boys hockey team this weekend. And by close I mean employed by Breck, not a random parent. Interesting perspective on staying in A, and probably an indication they aren't moving up anytime soon.

During our hockey discussion (and knowing I'm from Hill) I asked if they have considered moving up to AA. My question was instantly met with disgust. This person informed me that their high school has less than 400 students. How could they possibly compete with schools that have classes double the size of their entire school? How could they compete with the private schools that have nearly double the student body? When I brought up that the school pulls from the entire metro and can't be compared to a small town with similar numbers, they didn't have much of an answer. Just repeatedly referenced their student body population.

Anyway, interesting to see into the mind of a metro private school program in A and thought I would pass it along.

1) He has a fair argument with viz. the student body size whereas STA has much less of one, given that they are an all boys school with a male population comparative with the biggest of AA schools.

2) The drawing from the entire metro area is argument kind of a weak one ....Why isn't Minneapolis an instant powerhouse, with their bottom-to-top combined hockey program?

[eastsideguy]

Here are my thoughts Rainier and i apologize for calling you simple minded earlier in this thread:

STA is a tremendous school who should be playing hockey at the AA level. They have proven over the last ten years that by investing in high quality coaches they have been able to raise the bar for hockey succes at the school. The high school was the beneficiary of a rink privately funded basically on their campus which was to also serve the Univeristy of St Thomas mens and womens programs. Prior to 2003 the alumni were not embarassed about playing A hockey, they were just plain embarrased about their hockey program. I believe it was 2002 when the team won 3 or so games. The fact they were able to attract high quality coaches the same year a new rink was built certainly is not a coincendence.
This blue print can not be duplicated in the smaller public schools of Minnesota... I Agree. The move up probably was a couple of years after it should of happened... I Agree. They now have moved up and this will most likely be there final A state tournament. The angst should now be aimed at the Breck Mustangs.
What i have a problem with is your disparaging remarks about the school in general. Just like i am not an expert on the public school system, i question your ability to access STA and what it has to offer its students.

Frankly, the vast majority of alumni agree with your assesment of STA belonging in AA, and if placed in 4aa, i would anticipate great matchups pretty much on a yearly basis with Hill Murray to reach the state tournament.

[thestickler07]

Here are my thoughts Rainier and i apologize for calling you simple minded earlier in this thread:

STA is a tremendous school who should be playing hockey at the AA level. They have proven over the last ten years that by investing in high quality coaches they have been able to raise the bar for hockey succes at the school. The high school was the beneficiary of a rink privately funded basically on their campus which was to also serve the Univeristy of St Thomas mens and womens programs. Prior to 2003 the alumni were not embarassed about playing A hockey, they were just plain embarrased about their hockey program. I believe it was 2002 when the team won 3 or so games. The fact they were able to attract high quality coaches the same year a new rink was built certainly is not a coincendence.
This blue print can not be duplicated in the smaller public schools of Minnesota... I Agree. The move up probably was a couple of years after it should of happened... I Agree. They now have moved up and this will most likely be there final A state tournament. The angst should now be aimed at the Breck Mustangs.
What i have a problem with is your disparaging remarks about the school in general. Just like i am not an expert on the public school system, i question your ability to access STA and what it has to offer its students.

Frankly, the vast majority of alumni agree with your assesment of STA belonging in AA, and if placed in 4aa, i would anticipate great matchups pretty much on a yearly basis with Hill Murray to reach the state tournament.

Being in section 4AA would take the HM-STA rivalry to a different level.

I don't think either squad considers the other its "top rival", WBL-HM still has the name cache and STA probably likes beating CDH more than anybody, but it could definitely develop into a monster if they were in the same section.

It would probably take the MSHSL doing a major section shakeup for that alignment to happen though, things aren't very balanced as it is and stacking 4AA more would just exacerbate the problem.

[Hock1239]

The reason why sta waited to opt up is success is harder to sustain at private schools. Private schools compete with other private schools for students. A family looking to send their kid whose good at hockey and wishes to develop will consider a schools hockey program as one of the top priorities. Saint Thomas was not good at hockey for most of its history because other nearby privates were relatively better. The new arena and new respected coaches combined with Jordan Schroeder made the program successful quickly. After the program got successful more talented players started going to STA because it was seen as a relatively more attractive school than other private schools for some one who wanted to play college hockey. Look at there records and scores of state games in the first few years and compare them to now. the overall talent of players is clearly much higher now. The reason they were slow to opt up is they cannot control which private school these players attend and the attractiveness of sta for a very good player relative to other schools could decline quickly much like how it became relatively attractive quickly. The school is clearly interested in having a successful hockey program. If they opted up earlier there overall talent level was lower and would have made it difficult for them to have immediate success in class aa. The lack of success would make other schools relatively more attractive and they would in turn decrease their overall talent level.

Look at other private schools some like spa before this year would have a similar talent level as non metro teams. The tuition isn't the monetary advantage gained by privates. It is the economic advantage of a players family in the metro a naturally talented player is more likely to play hockey over other less expensive sports and a larger population means better trainers will locate in the metro area and these families can afford more training. The reason some private schools aren't nearly as good as others is families self select where they want there kid to go to school and chances are if the son is a talented hockey player one thing the family will value in selecting a school is the relative strength of the hockey program.

This is different than public schools who develop their players from a young age. A talented player will leave for a private school if his family's values differ from the public school ie value catholic education. The only time a talented player will leave a public school if the family doesn't value a private school more than a public school is if the family values the success of a hockey program more than the public school does.

[HawkeyPower]

The kids that play for Hermantown actually live in the city of Hermantown, they are not a conglomeration from 15 different cities. As such, they and their families work with, interact with, and go to school with others in the community on a daily basis. Having this level of familiarity with others forms something called a "community".


Rainier,

But it's ok for the Proctor kid to transfer to Hermantown in bantams? Or a kid to transfer from Virginia in bantams and become a second line varsity player as a sophomore (last season)?If you're from the twin ports, you've obviously witnessed the exodus to Hermantown in the last half decade because of the 'Red Plan'. The girl at the end of my street plays for PH girls team, and there is a handful of youth players that also play for Hermantown on my street or the circle at the end. I live in Duluth Heights, their parents open enrolled their kids there when the s$&t was hittin the fan in the duluth schools years ago. Believe it or not, there are lots of kids living in Duluth, Proctor and other smaller communities around here that attend school in Hermantown because they open enrolled before the herman town district shut it down to new enrollees.

Virginia player was third line last year, second this year. Just to clear things up.

[HawkeyPower]

Hermantown USED to accept open enrollments, my point was there are kids on my street in DULUTH that go to school and play youth and high school hockey in Hermantown. I don't believe you can open enroll to hermantown anymore, I think their school are at capacity. Maybe a hawk fan from down the road could fill us in.

I must clarify this even more, these kids open enrolled a few years ago, not recently.

]

Rock you have it pretty down pat. Open enrollment was closed a couple of years ago after the Red Plan debacle. I dont think that there are any open enrollers on Varsity this year. But there are some in JV and more in the Youth Association. The Proctor transfers/open enrollers are on JV as well. The player from Virginia did move into town his Bantam year. Besides him I believe all the Varsity starters have been in Hermantown since Peewees. That will change as some of the Open Enrollers get older.

[deacon]

Alright rainier what exactly is your beef with private schools?

Great to have you back, stick-man! I guess the group home reinstated your internet privileges.

To make you and the old lady from the old Wendy's commercials happy, I'll lay my beef out for you. (Settle down tiger, that's just a figure of speech.)

As I recently found out, 18 of the last 25 girls and boys Class A hockey titles have been won by private schools from the Twin Cities metro area (72%). That's an astonishing success rate when you consider these same schools only make up 9% of the total teams in Class A. A statistical anomaly of this magnitude warrants further investigation.

When the question is posed how this dominance could have arisen, one must look for common elements among these metro privates. And what you find is that they have two things in common.

1. They are all located in a major metropolitan area of 2.5 million people in which the vast majority of other schools are AA.

2. They are private schools, which means they have resource levels not attainable by public schools, given the the amount in tuition one must pay to attend.

With this established, one must then check to see what the common properties are amongst the outstate schools, who make up the other 91% of teams yet only 28% of its champions. (SCC, Lourdes, D. Marshall excepted.)

1. They are almost all located in areas with populations from around 2,000 to 15,000, far less than the metro privates.

2. They are public schools, thus they have the funds that the state provides them, and not the huge accumulation of tuition found in private schools.


So logic demands that we conclude that the reason for this incredible, unprecedented success rate is due to the huge advantages in population and financial resources that the metro private schools have over the outstate public schools.

Fittingly, fans, parents, coaches, TV and radio personalities, former GMs of the Minnesota North Stars, and scores of others catch on to this imbalance and begin to question its morality. A near consensus is reached that what is taking place is a clear violation of the intent of the creation of Class A and that this violation is incongruously being perpetrated by institutions that go to great lengths to advertise their commitment to integrity, leadership, and service.

Yet there remains one tiny segment of the populace that somehow cannot see what everyone else sees. They are certain members of the alumni from the probability-defying metro private schools. When others bring up this transparent ruse, they lash out and vehemently deny that which is so blatantly obvious, and then go even a step further and proclaim it is the public schools' lack of action that has created this chasm of ability, completely ignoring the fact that acquiring the two things that have made the metro privates so successful is an impossibility for outstate public schools. They continue to maintain this illogical narrative despite other metro privates schools opting up and even through the admission of other alumni from their schools that they should not be in Class A.

It is this irrational, willfully ignorant resistance to logic and sportsmanship that is my beef. And despite invitations to spell out how these public schools can be as successful as they claim they have the potential to be, all we hear from this group of normally highly vocal and emotional people is a deafening silence. A damning silence, more damning than anything Louis Vincent Nanne could ever say about them.

They defend the indefensible, and as a result they make themselves vulnerable to attack by those who are willing to wield logic and common sense in refuting them. While it provides great fun and hours of entertainment for those who effortlessly trap them into embarrassing contradictions and rationalizations, one can't help but feel for the kids whose high school hockey experiences were tainted by the mentality these deniers show to be commonplace behind their exclusive walls. At least the taken advantage-of kids get the benefit of learning how not to conduct oneself, but that is a small consolation to a group of heartbroken pucksters who get tired of hearing the word "consolation" every March.

That's it in a nutshell. I don't expect you hockeycaust deniers to ever fess up to your institutions' culpability in creating this atmosphere of athletic bullying, but maybe someday a crack will form in your hardened shell of self-righteousness and some remorse may reach your cold hearts, where you will realize that the ends doesn't always justify the means.

[rainier]

(Seeing as you just joined the message board today and this was your first post, forgive me if I have suspicions that you are one of the usual CAPSD suspects operating under a new name. If you are truly someone new, I apologize, but HSHW's integrity has really been called into question lately, so I am hypervigilant to the fact that he may be trying tricks that even a weasel would be ashamed to attempt. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and we can start fresh.)

The reason why sta waited to opt up is success is harder to sustain at private schools. (What about Hill Murray? Why is it that 5 metro private schools have combined to win 18 of the last 25 titles in Class A boys and girls hockey? That sure seems like sustained success. What about Cretin in football and baseball? What about STA in swimming? What about De Le Salle in basketball? Wouldn't such a handicapping difficulty apply across the board to all sports?)Private schools compete with other private schools for students. (In the metro and with open enrollment, it seems most schools compete with other schools for good athletes, regardless if they are public or private, given that financial aid is so available for kids who wish to go to private schools.) A family looking to send their kid whose good at hockey and wishes to develop will consider a schools hockey program as one of the top priorities. Saint Thomas was not good at hockey for most of its history because other nearby privates were relatively better. The new arena and new respected coaches combined with Jordan Schroeder made the program successful quickly. After the program got successful more talented players started going to STA because it was seen as a relatively more attractive school than other private schools for some one who wanted to play college hockey. Look at there records and scores of state games in the first few years and compare them to now. the overall talent of players is clearly much higher now. The reason they were slow to opt up is they cannot control which private school these players attend (No school can control players leaving or not coming in the first place.)and the attractiveness of sta for a very good player relative to other schools could decline quickly much like how it became relatively attractive quickly. (The opt up commitment is only two years, plenty of time to adjust up or down depending on expected success, and if they had opted up earlier and then needed to opt down, they would still be a top A team, therefore they would still be considered "successful". I mean, it was Class A success that allowed them to build up the program, wasn't it?) The school is clearly interested in having a successful hockey program. If they opted up earlier there overall talent level was lower and would have made it difficult for them to have immediate success in class aa. (If they opted up after their 2nd title on 2008, they would have been just fine in AA. Didn't it take upsets at the hands of Mahtomedi that were considered "shocking" to keep them from winning titles in '09 and '10? )The lack of success would make other schools relatively more attractive and they would in turn decrease their overall talent level. (Starting in 2006, STA's PageStat ratings were 21, 9, 3, 11, 11, 8, 6, and now 4. When I see those numbers I see a team that could have gone to AA anytime after 2006 and been very "successful". Unless one's only definition of success is winning titles. They are the favorites to win A this year, which would be their 5th A title in 8 years, with two shocking upsets keeping them from having a good chance at making it 6 or 7 titles in 8 years. I'm sorry, but no matter how I look at it, STA didn't just overstay their welcome in Class A, they in effect told everyone else other than Breck to get the hell out of the house.)

Look at other private schools some like spa before this year would have a similar talent level as non metro teams. (I see no problem with them staying in A, but if and when they get to the point of being capable of being competitive in AA, which essentially means they have successfully leveraged their advantage of being in a major metropolitan area, then it would be time to opt up. This is a distinction these schools must be able to discern in order to maintain their integrity. Claiming "we aren't breaking any rules" doesn't cut it from a sportsmanship perspective.)The tuition isn't the monetary advantage gained by privates. It is the economic advantage of a players family in the metro a naturally talented player is more likely to play hockey over other less expensive sports (But don't most top hockey players start at age 3 or 4? Is it possible to know if a kid is really talented at that early of an age? It seems like most parents have picked hockey for the kid before they know how good he is at an array of different sports. I may be wrong though.) and a larger population means better trainers will locate in the metro area and these families can afford more training. (Yet another reason for keeping metro teams out of Class A.)The reason some private schools aren't nearly as good as others is families self select where they want there kid to go to school and chances are if the son is a talented hockey player one thing the family will value in selecting a school is the relative strength of the hockey program. (True, but this doesn't change the fact that the metro private school is drawing from an enormous talent pool that is orders of magnitude greater than almost all other schools in A.)

This is different than public schools who develop their players from a young age. A talented player will leave for a private school if his family's values differ from the public school ie value catholic education. The only time a talented player will leave a public school if the family doesn't value a private school more than a public school is if the family values the success of a hockey program more than the public school does. (I guess I still don't now how any of this is making it okay for STA or Breck to stay in A as long as they have and for some of their alumni to claim innocence. These schools clearly could have been competing well in AA for quite some time now and instead chose to dominate schools from small communities. BSM opted up 4 years after their last A title; they weren't exactly setting the world on fire when they moved up, and yet they competed just fine in the toughest section in MN high school hockey and have a AA title and 3rd place to show for it. I'm sorry, but this real world example set by BSM really casts strong doubt on your defense of STA. Most people believe and the evidence does show that a move to AA can strengthen a program, so worries of a free fall are unfounded and even in a worst case scenario the two year opt down window provides a comfy parachute back down to immediate relevance in Class A, which, as shown, can still attract players extremely effectively.)

Thank you for your thoughts. I disagree, but I respect you taking the time and providing a perspective from someone who knows STA history well. Unfortunately I still don't see enough evidence that STA's long stay in A was anything more than a quick and dirty glory grab once the program had been built up. (Which Breck continues to do and other top big city privates hope to do now that the Class A food chain just got a little shorter.) I know you and many other STA fans probably wanted them to move up earlier, and it probably sucks people like me keep hammering them, but sadly, compatriots of yours persist in defending these dubious choices while simultaneously blaming the victims.

Thanks again for your thoughts, but if you are HSHW in disguise, then I truly pity you and am still waiting for the "Rags to Riches" challenge to be accepted.

[thestickler07]

Rainier I don't really want to go back and forth with you on this (I'm not here to win hearts and minds) but I think you just kind of summed up why its tough to take your "case" seriously.

I see no problem with them staying in A, but if and when they get to the point of being capable of being competitive in AA, which essentially means they have successfully leveraged their advantage of being in a major metropolitan area, then it would be time to opt up.

You aren't debating a principle, you are just arguing the degree to which opting up or not is palatable to you.

You basically just said, "its cool in my book for metro privates to be in class A as long as they don't try to win consistently."

Its kind of pointless to argue shades of grey don't you think? You kind of just come off as salty about the whole ordeal.

[deacon]

Rainier's world: You can be in class A as long as you don't win.

[Ogie]

Rainier I don't really want to go back and forth with you on this (I'm not here to win hearts and minds) but I think you just kind of summed up why its tough to take your "case" seriously.

I see no problem with them staying in A, but if and when they get to the point of being capable of being competitive in AA, which essentially means they have successfully leveraged their advantage of being in a major metropolitan area, then it would be time to opt up.

You aren't debating a principle, you are just arguing the degree to which opting up or not is palatable to you.

You basically just said, "its cool in my book for metro privates to be in class A as long as they don't try to win consistently."

Its kind of pointless to argue shades of grey don't you think? You kind of just come off as salty about the whole ordeal.

Haters don't debate principle...They argue on emotional reactions.

[rainier]

Alright rainier what exactly is your beef with private schools?

Great to have you back, stick-man! I guess the group home reinstated your internet privileges.

To make you and the old lady from the old Wendy's commercials happy, I'll lay my beef out for you. (Settle down tiger, that's just a figure of speech.)

As I recently found out, 18 of the last 25 girls and boys Class A hockey titles have been won by private schools from the Twin Cities metro area (72%). That's an astonishing success rate when you consider these same schools only make up 9% of the total teams in Class A. A statistical anomaly of this magnitude warrants further investigation.

When the question is posed how this dominance could have arisen, one must look for common elements among these metro privates. And what you find is that they have two things in common.

1. They are all located in a major metropolitan area of 2.5 million people in which the vast majority of other schools are AA.

2. They are private schools, which means they have resource levels not attainable by public schools, given the the amount in tuition one must pay to attend.

With this established, one must then check to see what the common properties are amongst the outstate schools, who make up the other 91% of teams yet only 28% of its champions. (SCC, Lourdes, D. Marshall excepted.)

1. They are almost all located in areas with populations from around 2,000 to 15,000, far less than the metro privates.

2. They are public schools, thus they have the funds that the state provides them, and not the huge accumulation of tuition found in private schools.


So logic demands that we conclude that the reason for this incredible, unprecedented success rate is due to the huge advantages in population and financial resources that the metro private schools have over the outstate public schools.

Fittingly, fans, parents, coaches, TV and radio personalities, former GMs of the Minnesota North Stars, and scores of others catch on to this imbalance and begin to question its morality. A near consensus is reached that what is taking place is a clear violation of the intent of the creation of Class A and that this violation is incongruously being perpetrated by institutions that go to great lengths to advertise their commitment to integrity, leadership, and service.

Yet there remains one tiny segment of the populace that somehow cannot see what everyone else sees. They are certain members of the alumni from the probability-defying metro private schools. When others bring up this transparent ruse, they lash out and vehemently deny that which is so blatantly obvious, and then go even a step further and proclaim it is the public schools' lack of action that has created this chasm of ability, completely ignoring the fact that acquiring the two things that have made the metro privates so successful is an impossibility for outstate public schools. They continue to maintain this illogical narrative despite other metro privates schools opting up and even through the admission of other alumni from their schools that they should not be in Class A.

It is this irrational, willfully ignorant resistance to logic and sportsmanship that is my beef. And despite invitations to spell out how these public schools can be as successful as they claim they have the potential to be, all we hear from this group of normally highly vocal and emotional people is a deafening silence. A damning silence, more damning than anything Louis Vincent Nanne could ever say about them.

They defend the indefensible, and as a result they make themselves vulnerable to attack by those who are willing to wield logic and common sense in refuting them. While it provides great fun and hours of entertainment for those who effortlessly trap them into embarrassing contradictions and rationalizations, one can't help but feel for the kids whose high school hockey experiences were tainted by the mentality these deniers show to be commonplace behind their exclusive walls. At least the taken advantage-of kids get the benefit of learning how not to conduct oneself, but that is a small consolation to a group of heartbroken pucksters who get tired of hearing the word "consolation" every March.

That's it in a nutshell. I don't expect you hockeycaust deniers to ever fess up to your institutions' culpability in creating this atmosphere of athletic bullying, but maybe someday a crack will form in your hardened shell of self-righteousness and some remorse may reach your cold hearts, where you will realize that the ends doesn't always justify the means.

Wow, another cut and paste comeback from a private school bobo. The curriculum in your "top" schools must be really challenging for you to have mastered such a complex skill. Could you have advanced to Debate 101 if you would have been given an extra 4 years in high school or is "Uncreative Buffoon" a terminal degree at your institution?

Feel free to criticize my posts, but if you go the extra mile and actually add something to the discussion, then I won't be forced to assume your parents had to pay "hush money" to the headmaster in order for you not to be held back a 3rd time.

[rainier]

Rainier's world: You can be in class A as long as you don't win.

Deacon's world: Why challenge yourself in AA when you can sandbag your way to (empty) glory versus small community teams?

Must be nice to always take the easy way out. I guess testing yourself is something only poor people do.

[SquirtC'00]

Rainier you keep saying that STA draws from a huge metro talent pull when with the $20,000 tuition that you pay for STA you could play in any program in the state, because I am pretty sure you can get a nice place up there in Hibbing for 80k because is what four years at STA will cost you, but these students and families choose to attend STA for more than what their athletics have to offer. Also if you choose to go to STA you have to take part in the military program which means looking like a mailman everyday and you also have to take college prep classes and not to mention without girls seems like a lot just to play hockey.

[deacon]

Wow, another cut and paste comeback from a private school bobo. The curriculum in your "top" schools must be really challenging for you to have mastered such a complex skill. Could you have advanced to Debate 101 if you would have been given an extra 4 years in high school or is "Uncreative Buffoon" a terminal degree at your institution?

Feel free to criticize my posts, but if you go the extra mile and actually add something to the discussion, then I won't be forced to assume your parents had to pay "hush money" to the headmaster in order for you not to be held back a 3rd time.

[deacon]

Rainier's world: You can be in class A as long as you don't win.

Deacon's world: Why challenge yourself in AA when you can sandbag your way to (empty) glory versus small community teams?

Must be nice to always take the easy way out. I guess testing yourself is something only poor people do.

[thestickler07]

The look on Gerrard's face is too much.

[Ogie]

Rainier you keep saying that STA draws from a huge metro talent pull when with the $20,000 tuition that you pay for STA you could play in any program in the state, because I am pretty sure you can get a nice place up there in Hibbing for 80k because is what four years at STA will cost you, but these students and families choose to attend STA for more than what their athletics have to offer. Also if you choose to go to STA you have to take part in the military program which means looking like a mailman everyday and you also have to take college prep classes and not to mention without girls seems like a lot just to play hockey.

They're Catholics....Read his posts and do the math.

[Ogie]

Wow, another cut and paste comeback from a private school bobo. The curriculum in your "top" schools must be really challenging for you to have mastered such a complex skill. Could you have advanced to Debate 101 if you would have been given an extra 4 years in high school or is "Uncreative Buffoon" a terminal degree at your institution?

This, coming from the empty net that thought my knowledge of the terms "non sequitur" and " ad hominem" was a product of my command of Latin.

You are a truly amusing little troll, rainier.

[Mite-dad]

Rainier you keep saying that STA draws from a huge metro talent pull when with the $20,000 tuition that you pay for STA you could play in any program in the state, because I am pretty sure you can get a nice place up there in Hibbing for 80k because is what four years at STA will cost you, but these students and families choose to attend STA for more than what their athletics have to offer. Also if you choose to go to STA you have to take part in the military program which means looking like a mailman everyday and you also have to take college prep classes and not to mention without girls seems like a lot just to play hockey.

So the kids don't want to go there, its the parents making them? So the truth is that it is the parents building their ego, not the kids. I often wondered if the kids really would rather stay and play with their friends in the local association and high school.

[SquirtC'00]

O, what I meant by students and families choosing to go to STA is that it is not only a big commitment financially but also a comment by the student as well because STA is not a perfect fit for everyone.

[rainier]

The look on Gerrard's face is too much.

More cut and paste comebacks? I'd call you a one-trick pony but I think horses actually have IQs higher than that of a small meatball.

And now you got Ogie backing you up? The GED Dream Team! Look out world, here comes a whole lot of everything except actual discussion about high school hockey. Although I suspect there is a reason you guys refuse to have discussions and instead default to shallow criticisms that don't refute my arguments. That's what people do when they have nothing else.

Now how about you add something to the discussion? Why don't you tell me how it is STA came to power and how that blueprint can be applied to outstate communities? You clearly don't think STA has had any type of significant advantage, so go ahead and pull your gerbil out for five minutes and tell me how it can be done. It surely has nothing to do with STA being in a metro area of 2.5 million people, so there must be plenty of other clever innovations they implemented that allowed them to blast by communities that have populations of 10,000 or even less. Wield your logic like the Fleming Saber and slice me up, Colonel.

What do you think about BSM's decision to opt up when they weren't dominant? Do you find it inspiring or embarrassing? Is it weird to think that someone would attempt something without being virtually guaranteed of being the winner? I guess you're okay with your team accepting high school hockey welfare instead of really earning anything.

Why do you think 18 of the last 25 boys and girls Class A hs hockey titles have been won by metro privates? How is it these teams have won 72% of the titles yet only make up 9% of the teams in Class A? I would love to hear your explanation.

Or you can just keep on strengthening my argument by avoiding answering any questions. But given that there is no guarantee you would be successful, I understand why you wouldn't want to even try.

[Ogie]

[thestickler07]

More cut and paste comebacks? I'd call you a one-trick pony but I think horses actually have IQs higher than that of a small meatball.

And now you got Ogie backing you up? The GED Dream Team! Look out world, here comes a whole lot of everything except actual discussion about high school hockey. Although I suspect there is a reason you guys refuse to have discussions and instead default to shallow criticisms that don't refute my arguments. That's what people do when they have nothing else.

Now how about you add something to the discussion? Why don't you tell me how it is STA came to power and how that blueprint can be applied to outstate communities? You clearly don't think STA has had any type of significant advantage, so go ahead and pull your gerbil out for five minutes and tell me how it can be done. It surely has nothing to do with STA being in a metro area of 2.5 million people, so there must be plenty of other clever innovations they implemented that allowed them to blast by communities that have populations of 10,000 or even less. Wield your logic like the Fleming Saber and slice me up, Colonel.

What do you think about BSM's decision to opt up when they weren't dominant? Do you find it inspiring or embarrassing? Is it weird to think that someone would attempt something without being virtually guaranteed of being the winner? I guess you're okay with your team accepting high school hockey welfare instead of really earning anything.

Why do you think 18 of the last 25 boys and girls Class A hs hockey titles have been won by metro privates? How is it these teams have won 72% of the titles yet only make up 9% of the teams in Class A? I would love to hear your explanation.

Or you can just keep on strengthening my argument by avoiding answering any questions. But given that there is no guarantee you would be successful, I understand why you wouldn't want to even try.

Arguing the principle is important rainier, I won't even charge ya for that nugget of knowledge.

And maybe its better coaching? Or is that too wild of a theory for the pushpin board of yours?