Bad news: The Twins can't hit.
Really bad news: you can't blame Lew Ford, Mike Ryan, and Terry Tiffee for the zeros that keep coming from this lineup.
Good News: Twins don't have to beat the Tigers to get to the playoffs.
Really Good News: The team that has dragged the Twins out back to the woodshed tonight is 30 games over .500
Really, Really, Good News: The team that we are really competing against is being pounded by a team that is well below the .500 mark.
Guys, here's the deal. The Twins just don't matchup against the Tigers this year. On paper the Tigers and Twins could be similar, but between the lines they are not. Look no further than the innings played between the two clubs and see how many of those the Tigers have had a lead. It isn't close. This set with Tigers is only important in terms of how the Sox are doing, and right now Baker's start tonight is looking like a Mulligan.
Speaking of Baker, unless there is a tropical storm capable of keeping well hit flyballs within the dimensions of the fenceline, you can't run him out there anymore. Guerrier is your guy, his mop up time tonight is no indication of what he could do in a start. However, I believe he deserves a shot simply because if there is a chance he can be better than Baker, then that's a chance they must take.
Despite the continued poor hitting and the uncertainty which is the Twins starting staff, this club is one day and one precious game closer to the end of the season with the WC lead still in hand. And yes, we are one day closer to having Santana take the hill again.
Go Twins
Twins 34-34 on 6/18
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
Tigers by the tail
Shanty, you don't want to see Baker out there again and I don't want to see Silva, but one of these guys has to stay in the rotation. Baker's got the higher ERA at 6.72 to Silva's 6.30, but has a slightly lower WHIP and opponent's BA though neither are good. In his last 10 major league starts, Baker has had only one game in which he's not given up a home run, Silva has had three games. Both of these guys are equally awful, the nod might go to Silva to stay simply because he's a veteran. I'd give up both of these guys for anyone who can go 6 innings and give up only 3 runs.
Garza goes tonight. If his last start is any indication the Twins will need to win on Saturday and Sunday to break even. Saturday's the tough one, Bonser starts but he's given them a chance to win his last few times out.
The Twins have had some rough games against the Tigers this year, but won the last series in Detroit. There's no question in my mind they can play with this team but it's tough when you send three rookie pitchers in a row out there. Part of the hitting problems can be traced to the trouble the starters have had keeping the team out of a hole, if the score's close after the 7th the Twins are tough to beat. At least we won't have to endure watching Silva pitch against the Tigers this weekend...
Wasn't it 1987 when the Tigers dominated the Twins in the regular season? And you know the rest of the story.
Garza goes tonight. If his last start is any indication the Twins will need to win on Saturday and Sunday to break even. Saturday's the tough one, Bonser starts but he's given them a chance to win his last few times out.
The Twins have had some rough games against the Tigers this year, but won the last series in Detroit. There's no question in my mind they can play with this team but it's tough when you send three rookie pitchers in a row out there. Part of the hitting problems can be traced to the trouble the starters have had keeping the team out of a hole, if the score's close after the 7th the Twins are tough to beat. At least we won't have to endure watching Silva pitch against the Tigers this weekend...
Wasn't it 1987 when the Tigers dominated the Twins in the regular season? And you know the rest of the story.
Pitching is only half the game
We are brain washed to think that if the team loses its because of the pitching. You'd think Earl Weaver hypnotized all of us.
What I saw of Gardy's post game interview , he talked about how Baker didnt pitch well.
Baker didnt pitch well. But guess what..he is supposed to be in AAA ball right now.
When are the hitters going to bail out the pitchers. When was the last time this team won a game 7-6 or 8-7?
When you score one run in 2 games vs Yankees and 2 runs in 2 games vs TB and 2 runs last night, you arent going to win, unless Santana is pitching.... and even thats not certain.
Im hangin in there but the hitting is hard to watch. Real hard. They arent being dominated by Sandy Koufax and Nolan Ryan. They are getting themselves out...alot.
Hit the ball. Wait for a good pitch and drive it.
Geez.
What I saw of Gardy's post game interview , he talked about how Baker didnt pitch well.
Baker didnt pitch well. But guess what..he is supposed to be in AAA ball right now.
When are the hitters going to bail out the pitchers. When was the last time this team won a game 7-6 or 8-7?
When you score one run in 2 games vs Yankees and 2 runs in 2 games vs TB and 2 runs last night, you arent going to win, unless Santana is pitching.... and even thats not certain.
Im hangin in there but the hitting is hard to watch. Real hard. They arent being dominated by Sandy Koufax and Nolan Ryan. They are getting themselves out...alot.
Hit the ball. Wait for a good pitch and drive it.
Geez.
Hitting is only half the game
Tom Kelly was the person I remember saying that if the pitchers continually put the team in the hole by giving up early multiple runs it effects the hitting in that hitters start pressing and trying to tie up a 5 run deficit with one swing.
I'm not letting hitters off the hook, they do need to pick it up. Mauer has lost about a point a day in September off his batting average, Morneau has one homer and 5 RBIs in the last two weeks and nobody seems to be picking up the slack. I think for the younger hitters this is a learning experience, finding out what it takes to be consistent through a whole season. Even if they don't make the playoffs this year, hopefully these lessons will take.
Packerboy, when you say Baker should be in Triple A, are you coming around to my assertion that Ryan should've picked up a veteran pitcher for the stretch run?
I'm not letting hitters off the hook, they do need to pick it up. Mauer has lost about a point a day in September off his batting average, Morneau has one homer and 5 RBIs in the last two weeks and nobody seems to be picking up the slack. I think for the younger hitters this is a learning experience, finding out what it takes to be consistent through a whole season. Even if they don't make the playoffs this year, hopefully these lessons will take.
Packerboy, when you say Baker should be in Triple A, are you coming around to my assertion that Ryan should've picked up a veteran pitcher for the stretch run?
pathetic cop out
Oh the poor witto hitters, they got behind by 3 whole runs.
They also didnt hit a ball out of the infiled for 4 flippin innings.
What a joke.
Veteran pitcher? Who?
What if he gave up 3 runs? He'd lose too.
Get people who can hit the ball.
They also didnt hit a ball out of the infiled for 4 flippin innings.
What a joke.
Veteran pitcher? Who?
What if he gave up 3 runs? He'd lose too.
Get people who can hit the ball.
The Twins can't hit, the White Sox can't pitch. Neither team looks like a playoff team right now and guess what the Angels are starting to sneak back in it....They have a 3 game series at home with Chicago starting Monday. The Twins need a split against the Tigers desperately anything worse and they'll have made a 2 team wildcard race into a 3 if not 4 team race (Boston is also 5.5 back) Playing .500 ball from here on out should probably be enough to get the Wildcard, but the Twins aren't doing that right now.
Tha's 7 out of 11 games with 2 runs or less, 9 ou tof 11 with 3 runs or less. They can't keep making every pitcher look lke a Cy Young candidate.
Tha's 7 out of 11 games with 2 runs or less, 9 ou tof 11 with 3 runs or less. They can't keep making every pitcher look lke a Cy Young candidate.
Pitchers
Look at the numbers, if the pitching gives up 3 or fewer runs the Twins win. In August, they gave up 3 or fewer runs 12 times and they were 10-2 in those games. Here are some veteran pitchers that Ryan could have made a pitch for: Livan Hernandez, Miguel Batista, Gil Meche, Jarrod Washburn, Jamie Moyer, Dave Bush, Doug Davis. None have great numbers but they'd be better than what the Twins are throwing out there right now.
Twins problems
1. Scott Baker-If we played the Yankees everyday I wouldn't be so upset. Get to the playoffs then pitch him against New York.
2. Nick Punto-SLUMPING
3. Liriano- Needs to be healthy
4. Fatigue-young guys are very visibly tired
5. schedule-only one more off day
The twins need to shoot for a dead even tie with Chicago going into the final series. Then they find a way to win two out of three with Liriano, Bonser, and Santana. And don't be surprised to see Radke out of the pen.
2. Nick Punto-SLUMPING
3. Liriano- Needs to be healthy
4. Fatigue-young guys are very visibly tired
5. schedule-only one more off day
The twins need to shoot for a dead even tie with Chicago going into the final series. Then they find a way to win two out of three with Liriano, Bonser, and Santana. And don't be surprised to see Radke out of the pen.
Stewart went down and the Twins got better, Hunter broke his foot and the Twins still played well, Liriano went down and though many sounded the death bells the Twins continued on. I think Radke going down may have been the last straw, a team can only take so much and keep rebounding. Maybe Liriano coming back will give them a push, but unless the bats come back to life the Twins are in trouble.
Chris K brings up an interesting point, if the Twins give up 3 or fewer runs they went 10-2, but that has evened out because the past 2 weeks when the Twins opponents have given up 3 or fewer runs the Twins are 2-9. Think about that for a second in just about 2 weeks the Twins opponents have given up 3 or fewer runs 9 times in 11 games, if both teams are held to 3 runs or fewer the Twins are 2-1. If you can't score more than 3 runs you're not going to win many games no matter who is pitching, ask Roger Clemens.
When Rondell White and his .222 average is fast becoming your only reliable RBI guy your offense is in trouble. Redman needs to get more at bats, Morneau needs to sit a game or two as he looks tired and though he keeps hitting the ball, in key at bats he isn't. Last nights game really bothered me, the Twins were out of it by the 5th inning and Gardy didn't pull any of his regulars, much as I hate to say it some of these guys need a rest, menatlly they look beaten.
Chris K brings up an interesting point, if the Twins give up 3 or fewer runs they went 10-2, but that has evened out because the past 2 weeks when the Twins opponents have given up 3 or fewer runs the Twins are 2-9. Think about that for a second in just about 2 weeks the Twins opponents have given up 3 or fewer runs 9 times in 11 games, if both teams are held to 3 runs or fewer the Twins are 2-1. If you can't score more than 3 runs you're not going to win many games no matter who is pitching, ask Roger Clemens.
When Rondell White and his .222 average is fast becoming your only reliable RBI guy your offense is in trouble. Redman needs to get more at bats, Morneau needs to sit a game or two as he looks tired and though he keeps hitting the ball, in key at bats he isn't. Last nights game really bothered me, the Twins were out of it by the 5th inning and Gardy didn't pull any of his regulars, much as I hate to say it some of these guys need a rest, menatlly they look beaten.
maybe...
were my questions answered?
#1-Scott Baker? He is now in the bullpen, Matt Guerrier is the new 5th starter.
#2-Nick Punto? 4 for 5 with 3 RBI today.
#3-Francisco Liriano? Starts Wednesday and pitched flawlessly and painlessly in AAA last night.
#4-Young Hitters? They all are hitting and fielding well still.
#5-Schedule? They took 3 of 4 in a series where they HAD to do that.
#1-Scott Baker? He is now in the bullpen, Matt Guerrier is the new 5th starter.
#2-Nick Punto? 4 for 5 with 3 RBI today.
#3-Francisco Liriano? Starts Wednesday and pitched flawlessly and painlessly in AAA last night.
#4-Young Hitters? They all are hitting and fielding well still.
#5-Schedule? They took 3 of 4 in a series where they HAD to do that.
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Irishmans Shanty
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I stand corrected, the Twins can compete with and actually take a few games from Detroit. Three out of four from the Tigers this weekend has once again changed the landscape of the AL's playoff picture. However, I'm not ready to go where some of you are already thinking (Division title). As far as I'm concerned the Tigers are still the boss, yes they are scuffling but they are still driving the bus. The Twins' main focus still resides at 35th St. on Chicago's south side.
To the untrained eye there doesn't appear to be any real clarity in the Wild Card standings as of yet. Although for some of us, it is astonishingly obvious as to why the Twins will not be outdualed by the banjo that is the Chicago White Sox. The Sox are too one-dimensional to get it done this year. The Sox have lived and will eventually die by their addiction to the HR. The Sox are a well payed slowpitch softball team. When the wind blows out they will win, when the wind blows in they will loose, period. The Sox won two games this weekend simply by hitting it over the wall. The two games they lost they scored a total of three runs, 2 of which came on a two run shot.
The paradox of the Sox is our club. I have witnessed this show from its genesis and for the life of me I can't figure out how they continue to win. If the Twins were a serial killer the FBI would never be able to build a case because they would be impossible to profile. Nothing that has already occurred seems to apply to the Twins.
Superman had kryptonite and the Sox have the West Coast. A .500 week from the Twins will certainly stretch that WC lead.
To the untrained eye there doesn't appear to be any real clarity in the Wild Card standings as of yet. Although for some of us, it is astonishingly obvious as to why the Twins will not be outdualed by the banjo that is the Chicago White Sox. The Sox are too one-dimensional to get it done this year. The Sox have lived and will eventually die by their addiction to the HR. The Sox are a well payed slowpitch softball team. When the wind blows out they will win, when the wind blows in they will loose, period. The Sox won two games this weekend simply by hitting it over the wall. The two games they lost they scored a total of three runs, 2 of which came on a two run shot.
The paradox of the Sox is our club. I have witnessed this show from its genesis and for the life of me I can't figure out how they continue to win. If the Twins were a serial killer the FBI would never be able to build a case because they would be impossible to profile. Nothing that has already occurred seems to apply to the Twins.
Superman had kryptonite and the Sox have the West Coast. A .500 week from the Twins will certainly stretch that WC lead.
Twins
It's too bad all 3 of the Central teams can't play in post season. But thats the way its set up so our boys need to be one of the 2 that make it.
IS, I too have been saying all along that the Whiteys are who we need to beat and forget the Tigers. But we might need to rethink that.
The Twins ,if they win the games thay have in han, are only 1 game back of Det and 2 ahead of Chi.
The Tigers are 10-22 since Aug 1. They are good team but they aren't that good and its starting to level off. In June or July they would have scored 3 to beat Boof on Sat night.
Its are real short season now. If I was Leyland, Id be concerned about recent events. Maybe they should have picked up a slugger at deadline time.
Its a lesson to be relearned. You are never as good as you seem when everthing is going your way.
I think the Tigers are vulnerable.
Why do the Twins keep winning? Pitching depth and defense. Thats how they are built. The question for the last 20 games is: Will the balance of the Tigers be better than the hitting of the Sox vs the piching and D of the Twins.
IF Liriano will be as effective as he was before his injury and Boof can be Radke before his injury and Mauer's bat is back, I like the Twins....to win the division.
IS, I too have been saying all along that the Whiteys are who we need to beat and forget the Tigers. But we might need to rethink that.
The Twins ,if they win the games thay have in han, are only 1 game back of Det and 2 ahead of Chi.
The Tigers are 10-22 since Aug 1. They are good team but they aren't that good and its starting to level off. In June or July they would have scored 3 to beat Boof on Sat night.
Its are real short season now. If I was Leyland, Id be concerned about recent events. Maybe they should have picked up a slugger at deadline time.
Its a lesson to be relearned. You are never as good as you seem when everthing is going your way.
I think the Tigers are vulnerable.
Why do the Twins keep winning? Pitching depth and defense. Thats how they are built. The question for the last 20 games is: Will the balance of the Tigers be better than the hitting of the Sox vs the piching and D of the Twins.
IF Liriano will be as effective as he was before his injury and Boof can be Radke before his injury and Mauer's bat is back, I like the Twins....to win the division.
Santana
Was yesterday the emergence of Johan Santana the MVP? It very well may have been. He now leads the MAJORS in all three pitching triple crown categories. Wins-18, Strikeouts-230, ERA-2.75
Johan has made 31 starts. He is 18-5 and the Twins are 26-5 in his starts. The Twins record sits at 83-59, 24 games over .500. Johan is 21...They would only be 3 games over and well out of the race without him. Liriano went down and everyone thought the Twins were done, except Johan. He has been absolutely unhitable in the second half. Simply amazing. The Twins now have 2 MVP candidates, maybe 3. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Johan has made 31 starts. He is 18-5 and the Twins are 26-5 in his starts. The Twins record sits at 83-59, 24 games over .500. Johan is 21...They would only be 3 games over and well out of the race without him. Liriano went down and everyone thought the Twins were done, except Johan. He has been absolutely unhitable in the second half. Simply amazing. The Twins now have 2 MVP candidates, maybe 3. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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Neutron 14
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boblee,
While I don't disagree he's not deserving of the award, I have a hard time believing it will happen. If Chicago gets in the playoffs, I think Dye will get the most votes. I think the Big Papi will miss out due to DH and Boston missing the playoffs. If Chicago misses the playoffs, Jeter will win. East Coast bias is alive and well...
Go Go Twinks...
While I don't disagree he's not deserving of the award, I have a hard time believing it will happen. If Chicago gets in the playoffs, I think Dye will get the most votes. I think the Big Papi will miss out due to DH and Boston missing the playoffs. If Chicago misses the playoffs, Jeter will win. East Coast bias is alive and well...
Go Go Twinks...
MVP
I dont think a pitcher should win it but since they are eligible, Santana is a good candidate.
Only 4 pitchers have won. The last was Eckersley.
I dont know for sure but I would bet that when a pitcher has won, there was no real monster year from the hitters. That might be the case this year.
Dye is having a good season but he doesnt lead the league in one category. He might hit 45 HRs or so.
Ortiz is a DH on a team that has collapsed.
If Johan wins 20, they may give it to him.
Only 4 pitchers have won. The last was Eckersley.
I dont know for sure but I would bet that when a pitcher has won, there was no real monster year from the hitters. That might be the case this year.
Dye is having a good season but he doesnt lead the league in one category. He might hit 45 HRs or so.
Ortiz is a DH on a team that has collapsed.
If Johan wins 20, they may give it to him.
Johan
Reusse's column today is an argument for Johan for MVP, he's got a chance. I was at the game yesterday and noticed after a sharp first, Johan had trouble getting strike calls. According to Reusse, Leyland went up to the ump between the first and second inning and voila, the inside corner was suddenly a ball. Santana still had 13 K's, but had to throw more pitches and Gardy would've been in a quandary if he still would've had a no-hitter going into the 8th. He was still masterful.
It was a great series for the Twins and the Tigers are reeling, but the Twins have had a tendency to let up after big series wins and they've got Oakland coming in. The A's are a lousy hitting team but they bring some good pitching and the next three games figure to be nailbiters.
It was a great series for the Twins and the Tigers are reeling, but the Twins have had a tendency to let up after big series wins and they've got Oakland coming in. The A's are a lousy hitting team but they bring some good pitching and the next three games figure to be nailbiters.
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Neutron 14
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Re: MVP
[quote="packerboy"]
Only 4 pitchers have won. The last was Eckersley.
I dont know for sure but I would bet that when a pitcher has won, there was no real monster year from the hitters. That might be the case this year.
quote]
FYI
Kirby Puckett, 1992, 2nd in voting to Eck.
.329, 210 hits, 19hr's, 110 RBI's, 104 Runs, Gold Glove.
Only 4 pitchers have won. The last was Eckersley.
I dont know for sure but I would bet that when a pitcher has won, there was no real monster year from the hitters. That might be the case this year.
quote]
FYI
Kirby Puckett, 1992, 2nd in voting to Eck.
.329, 210 hits, 19hr's, 110 RBI's, 104 Runs, Gold Glove.
Puck for MVP
If Puck had hit 30+HRs, he probably would have won it.
Say boys, here is something no one has mentioned but wih the A's coming into town, Ryan will probably hear about it.
Frank Thomas has 35 HRs and 90+ RBIs. His salary is $500,000.
Remember when the Twins were talkng to him after the White Sox let him go. They asked Billy Beane why they signed him and is answer was "Why not?"
Why not indeed.
Say boys, here is something no one has mentioned but wih the A's coming into town, Ryan will probably hear about it.
Frank Thomas has 35 HRs and 90+ RBIs. His salary is $500,000.
Remember when the Twins were talkng to him after the White Sox let him go. They asked Billy Beane why they signed him and is answer was "Why not?"
Why not indeed.
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Neutron 14
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Franks contract was pretty incentive laden, He'll collect an additional 2M+.
Obviously (in hindsight) it would have been better than the Sierra, Rondell, Nevin catastrophe that has been the DH this season. Not everything Terry touches turns to gold. DH has turned to &%#*ing crapola.
Might as well let the pitchers hit....
Obviously (in hindsight) it would have been better than the Sierra, Rondell, Nevin catastrophe that has been the DH this season. Not everything Terry touches turns to gold. DH has turned to &%#*ing crapola.
Might as well let the pitchers hit....
Big Hurt on Ryan
You always have to wreck everything by telling the complete story.
But even at 2Mill, its the best veteran contract in baseball... where do you get 35 HRs and 90+ RBIs for 2mill. Thats Denny Hocking money.
But even at 2Mill, its the best veteran contract in baseball... where do you get 35 HRs and 90+ RBIs for 2mill. Thats Denny Hocking money.
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Neutron 14
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The DH has been VERY expensive for the Twins. The Three Muskateers (aka Sierra, White, Nevin) have done next to nothing for their money. Morneau gets less good pitches to hit, they haven't put anybody in the seats, and about a 1.2 on a ten point charisma scale.
Might as well bring back Bombo Rivera.
By the way, have we started using Boof as a verb yet?
Might as well bring back Bombo Rivera.
By the way, have we started using Boof as a verb yet?
El cheapo
Sometimes being cheap can get very expensive.
I think we have used some form of Boof as a verb as in "they got Boofed"
or "lets Boof em" or "man did I get Boofed up last night on tequila".
But I think we could make an effort to do more of it.
I think we have used some form of Boof as a verb as in "they got Boofed"
or "lets Boof em" or "man did I get Boofed up last night on tequila".
But I think we could make an effort to do more of it.
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Neutron 14
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packerboy, are you sure it was tequila? Maybe it was Boofeater gin...
Where is the love for Gardy as Manager of the year? For what he's paraded to the mound as 3,4 and 5 starters, he should be a lock. The only chance the pundits gave the Twins this year were rife with "if this" AND "if that".
Besides, it would round out an awards sweep!
Where is the love for Gardy as Manager of the year? For what he's paraded to the mound as 3,4 and 5 starters, he should be a lock. The only chance the pundits gave the Twins this year were rife with "if this" AND "if that".
Besides, it would round out an awards sweep!