7AA for 2017-2018

Immigrant Fan · Post by **Immigrant Fan** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:07 pm

DJ, Oldfool's Depends are pinching him again. They cut-off the circulation to his brain. He also has that creepy obsession with Anne Campbell, the activities director at GRHS. She should probably get a restraining order. Of course, that might require a warrant for this forum's operators, so she can ascertain his true stalker identity.

As for something relevant, it was a nice effort tonight for GR, especially the first period. They skated well, made passes, and played more aggressively than I've seen all season. Once again, I thought the youngsters made a good showing for themselves. If this team showed up earlier in the season, these discussions of the 8 versus the 7 seed would be very different.

I am wondering about the conditioning of the GR team. They consistently fade as games progress. Is it because they rely too much on a couple lines? Or is it the conditioning?

northwoods oldtimer · Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:38 am

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:40 am

page stat
7AA
1 DULUTH EAST 19 2 3 0.854 130 46 22.06
2 ANDOVER 18 5 0 0.783 109 45 20.53
3 ELK RIVER 16 7 0 0.696 111 62 20.26
4 DULUTH MARSHALL 15 7 2 0.667 98 47 20.10
5 CLOQUET 17 6 1 0.729 111 59 20.04
6 FOREST LAKE 12 10 1 0.543 56 60 17.79
7 GRAND RAPIDS 5 17 1 0.239 35 103 17.05
8 ST FRANCIS 13 10 0 0.565 95 74 15.13
9 CAMBRIDGE 4 20 0

If the better computer system was used....

Traxler · Post by **Traxler** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:41 am

elliott70 wrote:page stat
7AA
1 DULUTH EAST 19 2 3 0.854 130 46 22.06
2 ANDOVER 18 5 0 0.783 109 45 20.53
3 ELK RIVER 16 7 0 0.696 111 62 20.26
4 DULUTH MARSHALL 15 7 2 0.667 98 47 20.10
5 CLOQUET 17 6 1 0.729 111 59 20.04
6 FOREST LAKE 12 10 1 0.543 56 60 17.79
7 GRAND RAPIDS 5 17 1 0.239 35 103 17.05
8 ST FRANCIS 13 10 0 0.565 95 74 15.13
9 CAMBRIDGE 4 20 0

If the better computer system was used....

QRF is sanctioned by the MSHSL, right? Is that the only computer rankings that could be used to determine seeds?

Traxler · Post by **Traxler** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:42 am

I wonder what the seeds would be if 7AA used Happy’s rankings.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:46 am

Traxler wrote:
elliott70 wrote:page stat
7AA
1 DULUTH EAST 19 2 3 0.854 130 46 22.06
2 ANDOVER 18 5 0 0.783 109 45 20.53
3 ELK RIVER 16 7 0 0.696 111 62 20.26
4 DULUTH MARSHALL 15 7 2 0.667 98 47 20.10
5 CLOQUET 17 6 1 0.729 111 59 20.04
6 FOREST LAKE 12 10 1 0.543 56 60 17.79
7 GRAND RAPIDS 5 17 1 0.239 35 103 17.05
8 ST FRANCIS 13 10 0 0.565 95 74 15.13
9 CAMBRIDGE 4 20 0

If the better computer system was used....
QRF is sanctioned by the MSHSL, right? Is that the only computer rankings that could be used to determine seeds?

It is but think the section has some latitude...
not sure if coaches voting or QRF are the only options.

Usthockey13 · Post by **Usthockey13** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:05 am

updated QRF

Duluth East (146.4) 5-1-1 20-2-3 5.4 1.9 Won 2
Andover (120.0) 6-3-0 19-5-0 5.0 1.9 Won 3
Marshall (111.9) 3-3-0 16-7-2 4.1 2.0 Won 3
C-E-C (109.9) 3-3-1 17-7-1 4.6 2.5 Lost 1
Elk River (109.0) 2-2-0 16-7-0 4.8 2.6 Won 2
Forest Lake (96.5) 3-3-0 13-10-1 2.4 2.5 Won 2
St. Francis (69.7) 2-2-0 13-11-0 4.0 3.3 Lost 1
Grand Rapids (69.5) 2-5-0 6-17-1 1.6 4.3 Won 1
Cambridge-Isanti (30.2)

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:13 am

Usthockey13 wrote:updated QRF

Duluth East (146.4) 5-1-1 20-2-3 5.4 1.9 Won 2
Andover (120.0) 6-3-0 19-5-0 5.0 1.9 Won 3
Marshall (111.9) 3-3-0 16-7-2 4.1 2.0 Won 3
C-E-C (109.9) 3-3-1 17-7-1 4.6 2.5 Lost 1
Elk River (109.0) 2-2-0 16-7-0 4.8 2.6 Won 2
Forest Lake (96.5) 3-3-0 13-10-1 2.4 2.5 Won 2
St. Francis (69.7) 2-2-0 13-11-0 4.0 3.3 Lost 1
Grand Rapids (69.5) 2-5-0 6-17-1 1.6 4.3 Won 1
Cambridge-Isanti (30.2)

Nice to see St. Francis earn that 7 seed with their big time wins over Dodge County and St. Paul Highland Park.

BodyShots · Post by **BodyShots** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:45 am

TheHockeyDJ wrote:
Usthockey13 wrote:updated QRF

Duluth East (146.4) 5-1-1 20-2-3 5.4 1.9 Won 2
Andover (120.0) 6-3-0 19-5-0 5.0 1.9 Won 3
Marshall (111.9) 3-3-0 16-7-2 4.1 2.0 Won 3
C-E-C (109.9) 3-3-1 17-7-1 4.6 2.5 Lost 1
Elk River (109.0) 2-2-0 16-7-0 4.8 2.6 Won 2
Forest Lake (96.5) 3-3-0 13-10-1 2.4 2.5 Won 2
St. Francis (69.7) 2-2-0 13-11-0 4.0 3.3 Lost 1
Grand Rapids (69.5) 2-5-0 6-17-1 1.6 4.3 Won 1
Cambridge-Isanti (30.2)
Nice to see St. Francis earn that 7 seed with their big time wins over Dodge County and St. Paul Highland Park.

Really? Your complaining about the difference between a 7th and 8th seed!

Usthockey13 · Post by **Usthockey13** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:49 am

TheHockeyDJ wrote:
Usthockey13 wrote:updated QRF

Duluth East (146.4) 5-1-1 20-2-3 5.4 1.9 Won 2
Andover (120.0) 6-3-0 19-5-0 5.0 1.9 Won 3
Marshall (111.9) 3-3-0 16-7-2 4.1 2.0 Won 3
C-E-C (109.9) 3-3-1 17-7-1 4.6 2.5 Lost 1
Elk River (109.0) 2-2-0 16-7-0 4.8 2.6 Won 2
Forest Lake (96.5) 3-3-0 13-10-1 2.4 2.5 Won 2
St. Francis (69.7) 2-2-0 13-11-0 4.0 3.3 Lost 1
Grand Rapids (69.5) 2-5-0 6-17-1 1.6 4.3 Won 1
Cambridge-Isanti (30.2)
Nice to see St. Francis earn that 7 seed with their big time wins over Dodge County and St. Paul Highland Park.

I agree they need to figure out how to take in strength of schedule for sure.. Rapids should be 7 with the schedule they play and just beating CEC. Tonight would have been the night of the meeting as well

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:51 am

BodyShots wrote:
TheHockeyDJ wrote:
Usthockey13 wrote:updated QRF

Duluth East (146.4) 5-1-1 20-2-3 5.4 1.9 Won 2
Andover (120.0) 6-3-0 19-5-0 5.0 1.9 Won 3
Marshall (111.9) 3-3-0 16-7-2 4.1 2.0 Won 3
C-E-C (109.9) 3-3-1 17-7-1 4.6 2.5 Lost 1
Elk River (109.0) 2-2-0 16-7-0 4.8 2.6 Won 2
Forest Lake (96.5) 3-3-0 13-10-1 2.4 2.5 Won 2
St. Francis (69.7) 2-2-0 13-11-0 4.0 3.3 Lost 1
Grand Rapids (69.5) 2-5-0 6-17-1 1.6 4.3 Won 1
Cambridge-Isanti (30.2)
Nice to see St. Francis earn that 7 seed with their big time wins over Dodge County and St. Paul Highland Park.

Really? Your complaining about the difference between a 7th and 8th seed!

*You're

It doesn't matter what seed it is, teams should be placed in the seed they earned. East is #1 and Andover #2 and you think it is fair that East has to play Grand Rapids and Andover gets to play St. Francis in the quarterfinals? This is more about the consequences for #1 and #2 seeds. I'm not complaining from the standpoint of caring as a fan of GR. Just looking at it objectively. 2017 State Champions. As a fan of GR, playing at Duluth East in round 1 makes for some intrigue. However, it just isn't right that Andover as the #2 seeds gets to have the game the #1 seed should have been awarded.

alcloseshaver · Post by **alcloseshaver** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:51 am

Rapids may have to look at how they schedule games, will be difficult to avoid A teams in their proximity. Remember that only 2 teams voted not to use QRF.
St. Franny has a big game left with 3-20 Legacy Christian though...

kniven · Post by **kniven** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:09 pm

alcloseshaver wrote:Rapids may have to look at how they schedule games, will be difficult to avoid A teams in their proximity. Remember that only 2 teams voted not to use QRF.
St. Franny has a big game left with 3-20 Legacy Christian though...

So. With CEC now going to Elk River for the QFinals.....we’ve had some great battles over the last 5 years down there in the playoffs. I look forward to the challenge.

Usthockey13 · Post by **Usthockey13** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:29 pm

kniven wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:Rapids may have to look at how they schedule games, will be difficult to avoid A teams in their proximity. Remember that only 2 teams voted not to use QRF.
St. Franny has a big game left with 3-20 Legacy Christian though...
So. With CEC now going to Elk River for the QFinals.....we’ve had some great battles over the last 5 years down there in the playoffs. I look forward to the challenge.

CEC wont be going to Elk.. I think theyll get the 4th seed and host DM. Since those 3 teams will be in the TM and CEC beat DM they will get the higher seed. If Elk wins both of their games they will have the best overall win % and get 3rd seed.

kniven · Post by **kniven** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:31 pm

Usthockey13 wrote:
kniven wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:Rapids may have to look at how they schedule games, will be difficult to avoid A teams in their proximity. Remember that only 2 teams voted not to use QRF.
St. Franny has a big game left with 3-20 Legacy Christian though...
So. With CEC now going to Elk River for the QFinals.....we’ve had some great battles over the last 5 years down there in the playoffs. I look forward to the challenge.
CEC wont be going to Elk.. I think theyll get the 4th seed and host DM. Since those 3 teams will be in the TM and CEC beat DM they will get the higher seed. If Elk wins both of their games they will have the best overall win % and get 3rd seed.

Agree to disagree:). I guess we will see.....

Usthockey13 · Post by **Usthockey13** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:42 pm

CEC wont be going to Elk.. I think theyll get the 4th seed and host DM. Since those 3 teams will be in the TM and CEC beat DM they will get the higher seed. If Elk wins both of their games they will have the best overall win % and get 3rd seed.[/quote]

Agree to disagree:). I guess we will see.....[/quote]

Ha come Kniven quit slow playing. There is no way cec can get lower than 4th with their win of DM per the TM tiebreaker

kniven · Post by **kniven** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:46 pm

A game goes into overtime when the score is tied - not when their within the margin for a tie.

Usthockey13 · Post by **Usthockey13** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:47 pm

Your “tiebreaker theories” are entertaining. Duluth Marshall has a higher QRF than CEC and they both have no more games. If their QRF’s were identical, I would agree with you.[/quote]

they arent theories- its right on Mn scores
read this and you will see why

http://www.minnesota-scores.net/notes.php?id=73

Any team within 6 points QRF will use the TB to figure out seeds..

If the QRF works so well, why do you need a Tiebreaker Margin?

Because using it FOR SEEDING makes it better! In the end, all the QRF is, is a point value for how well a team has performed during the year. Very similar results provide very similar values, they do not create absolute differences.
Formulas like this provide a broad scope way of evaluating every team. But seeding teams needs to provide a much more narrow scope, usually comparing one team vs. another. So being able to apply what normal humans would to make the seeds make more sense is really a no-brainer.

kniven · Post by **kniven** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:53 pm

Usthockey13 wrote:Your “tiebreaker theories” are entertaining. Duluth Marshall has a higher QRF than CEC and they both have no more games. If their QRF’s were identical, I would agree with you.

they arent theories- its right on Mn scores
read this and you will see why

http://www.minnesota-scores.net/notes.php?id=73[/quote]

That’s your interpretation. A catch isn’t a catch. You have read the rules to determine if that’s a catch of the football. So your saying a team with a better score really isn’t a team with a better score and that’s it’s really a tie? That won’t fly with the section coaches.

Usthockey13 · Post by **Usthockey13** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:58 pm

kniven wrote:
Usthockey13 wrote:Your “tiebreaker theories” are entertaining. Duluth Marshall has a higher QRF than CEC and they both have no more games. If their QRF’s were identical, I would agree with you.
they arent theories- its right on Mn scores
read this and you will see why

http://www.minnesota-scores.net/notes.php?id=73

That’s your interpretation. A catch isn’t a catch. You have read the rules to determine if that’s a catch of the football. So your saying a team with a better score really isn’t a team with a better score and that’s it’s really a tie? That won’t fly with the section coaches.[/quote]

The coaches dont have a choice- they voted to use QRF and there is no changing the rules MN scores use

kniven · Post by **kniven** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:05 pm

Why would a person choose that a win isn’t based on if your score is better? And that you have to read the rules and the rule will tell you if your higher score is actually a win, tie, or loss. Interesting.....

Usthockey13 · Post by **Usthockey13** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:10 pm

kniven wrote:Why would a person choose that a win isn’t based on if your score is better? And that you have to read the rules and the rule will tell you if your higher score is actually a win, tie, or loss. Interesting.....

Again this is MNscores.net explanation for why they use the tiebreaker for the teams that are within a certain point margin

If the QRF works so well, why do you need a Tiebreaker Margin?

Because using it FOR SEEDING makes it better! In the end, all the QRF is, is a point value for how well a team has performed during the year. Very similar results provide very similar values, they do not create absolute differences.
Formulas like this provide a broad scope way of evaluating every team. But seeding teams needs to provide a much more narrow scope, usually comparing one team vs. another. So being able to apply what normal humans would to make the seeds make more sense is really a no-brainer.

Traxler · Post by **Traxler** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:08 pm

kniven the troll is winning

kniven · Post by **kniven** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:17 pm

Usthockey13 wrote:
kniven wrote:Why would a person choose that a win isn’t based on if your score is better? And that you have to read the rules and the rule will tell you if your higher score is actually a win, tie, or loss. Interesting.....
Again this is MNscores.net explanation for why they use the tiebreaker for the teams that are within a certain point margin

If the QRF works so well, why do you need a Tiebreaker Margin?

Because using it FOR SEEDING makes it better! In the end, all the QRF is, is a point value for how well a team has performed during the year. Very similar results provide very similar values, they do not create absolute differences.
Formulas like this provide a broad scope way of evaluating every team. But seeding teams needs to provide a much more narrow scope, usually comparing one team vs. another. So being able to apply what normal humans would to make the seeds make more sense is really a no-brainer.

Ok

Traxler · Post by **Traxler** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:07 pm

Maybe I'm not thinking this through correctly, but I assume Edina will beat Wayzata on 2/17. That would have a positive impact on Grand Rapids' QRF. However, since the seeds are determined on 2/16 they won't get the benefit of that game.

It's fun to watch this play out and see how the QRF changes from day to day.