Hockey Camp vs AAA summer team

[old goalie85]

My kids all play at least two sports. My three youngest play three. My oldest who is at the end of his soph year wanted to quit baseball so he could spend more time lifting and skating. I talked to him with the thought I could convince him to go out for ball.No way he said . The kid is 16 what do you do? I did get him to give the golf team a try.[starts mon] My point is if the kid only wants to play hockey should I tell him he has to play other sports other-wise he will suck at hockey?

[HockeyDad41]

HockeyDad41 & MN_Hcky_Coach are Jeckyll & Hyde skating little circles between the blue lines within the boards of schizophrenia, each playing suck hole in a 1-on-1 game where the puck is in the corner.

I don't understand.

This made me laugh - it's a funny way of saying that both your views are (extreme) polar opposite. I apologize IM if I interepreted this incorrectly!

Don't feel bad if you didn't interpret this correctly. Genius has always been a bit hard to understand.

[muckandgrind]

My kids all play at least two sports. My three youngest play three. My oldest who is at the end of his soph year wanted to quit baseball so he could spend more time lifting and skating. I talked to him with the thought I could convince him to go out for ball.No way he said . The kid is 16 what do you do? I did get him to give the golf team a try.[starts mon] My point is if the kid only wants to play hockey should I tell him he has to play other sports other-wise he will suck at hockey?

No you shouldn't. If the kid doesn't want to play baseball because he wants to spend more time doing other things, that should be good enough. Of course, this is just my humble opinion. You do what you think best.

[InigoMontoya]

You guys all have way to much time on your hands. This post has been giong on and on over a bunch of opinions that should be made by each family, not on this forum. I respect the question being asked, but I think it's clear that you'll never get everyone to agree on this topic.
Play AAA, or don't play AAA. Be in 3 sports, or don't be. To each there own and kids should make the choice with their parents. Respect what each kid wants to do and support them. They grow up so fast, do what's right for your family, not what this forum told you was the "right" thing to do.

This is a youth hockey forum and the title of the thread would indicate the topic of discussion; what should be posted on this thread? When would anyone ever agree on any forum of any type on any subject - and how boring would that be?

I think I love my kids more than the average parent, but I have to say that many days I don't think they could possibly grow up fast enough -how long until they are done eating my food, filling my laundry basket, tracking mud in the house, breaking stuff, staying out too late.

[old goalie85]

Muck- Not only is that my opinion, seems like the only one for me. If he gets "burned out" who am I to stop him?

[drop the puck]

What if little Johnny dioesn't want to play other sports?

Then he probably is not a good enough athlete and will likely sit on the bench for his HS hockey team if not cut from the team ... forget the D1 scholarship - that is not in the cards.

That is PURE B.S. Many kids don't play other sports because they find them boring or whatever. It doesn't mean they aren't a good athlete. How does playing baseball make you a better hockey player? It doesn't. Playing hockey and working on hockey-related skills makes you a better hockey player.

There is nothing wrong with a kid playing summer hockey if that's what he wants to do. We encourage kids who play instruments to practice, we encourage kids who love to read to do so, we encourage kids who like to fish year round to do so, why on Earth would we discourage a kid who's main joy is playing hockey to stop practicing what they love? It's pure lunacy.

If you think your kid will get burned out, then encourage them to take a break, but don't believe for a second that all kids are the same. Some kids thrive playing hockey year round.

Muck your distaste for baseball has been well defined in your posts over time. That said, you have golf, soccer and lacrosse too. Soccer and lacrosse develop footwork and hand eye coordination from a different perspective. Both offer low cost - outdoor fun. It is not just summer either ... spring and fall AAA conflicts with other sports including football in the fall.

All my kids have attended hockey camps in the summer (week long and summer long). All my kids have played AAA hockey in spring/fall ... that said when summer sports and hockey conflict ... it is the summer sport that wins out. When my oldest said he had a foursome ready and wanted to skip his HS coaches summer clinic ... he golfed.

As I look at most varsity hockey teams, many if not most of the starting 10 skaters play multiple sports and the ones that make the cut, but spend most of the time warming the bench for that one shift per period are often the hockey only kids. Sure they made the team, but at what ultimate cost.

I realize many D1 signed players are told to stay off the football field, but let's start with the 10 Mr Hockey Finalists. How many play more than one sport in HS today? How many played more than one sport in 5th grade and 8th grade?

[drop the puck]

My kids all play at least two sports. My three youngest play three. My oldest who is at the end of his soph year wanted to quit baseball so he could spend more time lifting and skating. I talked to him with the thought I could convince him to go out for ball.No way he said . The kid is 16 what do you do? I did get him to give the golf team a try.[starts mon] My point is if the kid only wants to play hockey should I tell him he has to play other sports other-wise he will suck at hockey?

Absolutely not ... around 8th or 9th grade all athletes will (should) start to make their own decisions ... if they do not then the poor kid has probably been over dominated by his parents and afraid to show their own opinion - that is sad. Your son should decide for himself. You can only offer some guidance, maybe a reality check, and some probability scenarios.

Year around training (combination of skating, weight lifting, plyometrics) is fine for HS athletes that decide for themselves that baseball, lacrosse, soccer, football, golf etc.... are no longer desired activities.


This thread started out with

So what is better for little johnny Hockey Camp or Summer AAA team?

I assumed (correctly?) that we are talking mite and maybe squirt aged kids. Especially since the opportunity for AAA hockey at the HS age level is rather limited and often only for the most elite players ....

[Pinky]

What if little Johnny dioesn't want to play other sports?

Then he probably is not a good enough athlete and will likely sit on the bench for his HS hockey team if not cut from the team ... forget the D1 scholarship - that is not in the cards.

That is PURE B.S. Many kids don't play other sports because they find them boring or whatever. It doesn't mean they aren't a good athlete. How does playing baseball make you a better hockey player? It doesn't. Playing hockey and working on hockey-related skills makes you a better hockey player.

There is nothing wrong with a kid playing summer hockey if that's what he wants to do. We encourage kids who play instruments to practice, we encourage kids who love to read to do so, we encourage kids who like to fish year round to do so, why on Earth would we discourage a kid who's main joy is playing hockey to stop practicing what they love? It's pure lunacy.

If you think your kid will get burned out, then encourage them to take a break, but don't believe for a second that all kids are the same. Some kids thrive playing hockey year round.

First: Ummm...hand eye coordination ???


Second: I think you should insert Parents in there.....

[InigoMontoya]

I've never been too crazy about staying on the thread topic, but since a couple are a little worked up:

Summer camps $300-$1,000 for 3-6 days, some are 'stay at the lake'.
A day camp that has 1.5hrs/day for 3 days and costs $300 = $66.67/hr of ice.

AAA $700 - $1,700 for 50 hrs of scrimmage/development, some 5+ tourneys including Canada
A developmental player getting 50 hrs of ice, paying $700 = $14/hr of ice.

Personally, I find $14/hr better than $67/hr. I also like the developmental opportunity to be spread out over April, May, and August rather than all in 3 to 6 days and then nothing. Combine the developmental practice time with a good coach in a good program with spring and/or fall MASH or Showcase (MASH is about $10/game). A total of $900 for 50 practice hours and 20 games; I think that's a fair value. The high school coaches STP program could be similar (depending on the coach). I also don't think that hitting the arena a couple times a week will burn them out - they'll spend much more time on the piano during the summer - and they'll have loads of time to play baseball and go to the lake. Camps just don't seem like a very good value to me.

[Pinky]

Agreed

+ 1 InigoMontoya

[old goalie85]

Didn't mean to get off subject. My experiece AAA or S.T.P. over camps any day. More bang for your buck.

[muckandgrind]

Then he probably is not a good enough athlete and will likely sit on the bench for his HS hockey team if not cut from the team ... forget the D1 scholarship - that is not in the cards.

That is PURE B.S. Many kids don't play other sports because they find them boring or whatever. It doesn't mean they aren't a good athlete. How does playing baseball make you a better hockey player? It doesn't. Playing hockey and working on hockey-related skills makes you a better hockey player.

There is nothing wrong with a kid playing summer hockey if that's what he wants to do. We encourage kids who play instruments to practice, we encourage kids who love to read to do so, we encourage kids who like to fish year round to do so, why on Earth would we discourage a kid who's main joy is playing hockey to stop practicing what they love? It's pure lunacy.

If you think your kid will get burned out, then encourage them to take a break, but don't believe for a second that all kids are the same. Some kids thrive playing hockey year round.

Muck your distaste for baseball has been well defined in your posts over time. That said, you have golf, soccer and lacrosse too. Soccer and lacrosse develop footwork and hand eye coordination from a different perspective. Both offer low cost - outdoor fun. It is not just summer either ... spring and fall AAA conflicts with other sports including football in the fall.

All my kids have attended hockey camps in the summer (week long and summer long). All my kids have played AAA hockey in spring/fall ... that said when summer sports and hockey conflict ... it is the summer sport that wins out. When my oldest said he had a foursome ready and wanted to skip his HS coaches summer clinic ... he golfed.

As I look at most varsity hockey teams, many if not most of the starting 10 skaters play multiple sports and the ones that make the cut, but spend most of the time warming the bench for that one shift per period are often the hockey only kids. Sure they made the team, but at what ultimate cost.

I realize many D1 signed players are told to stay off the football field, but let's start with the 10 Mr Hockey Finalists. How many play more than one sport in HS today? How many played more than one sport in 5th grade and 8th grade?

I love baseball, hell I just rec'd my season ticket package to the Twins just the other day...I was out in the backyard playing catch with my boys from the time they could throw. I wouldn't have signed them up for Little League if I didn't have an interest in the game, myself. I didn't encourage my boys to quit, they made that decision all on their own.

My point is that kids don't need to play other organized sports to be a good hockey player. Playing football, lacrosse, basketball, baseball at the park on their own is good enough, IMO. If you kid loves to play multiple organized sports, good for them. Like I said before, my middle son LOVES to play football and I expect that he'll play through his senior year. My older played a couple years of football and gave it up, my youngest has never shown any interest. All kids are different, even the kids in my own family.

First: Ummm...hand eye coordination ???


Second: I think you should insert Parents in there.....

Pinky - don't you think stinkhandling a ball or puck in the garage develops hand to eye coordination MUCH more than take a couple of swings at a baseball???

And as far as your second comment, that's a cop-out and you know it....unless you think ALL kids are the same, and ALL kids MUST be playing additional ORGANIZED sports.

[Pinky]

Pinky - don't you think stinkhandling a ball or puck in the garage develops hand to eye coordination MUCH more than take a couple of swings at a baseball???

And as far as your second comment, that's a cop-out and you know it....unless you think ALL kids are the same, and ALL kids MUST be playing additional ORGANIZED sports. :roll:[/quote]


You didn't understand either of my points.

You said playing baseball doesn't help a hockey player. I said yes it does for hand eye coordination. I didn't make any argument to which is better, stickhandling in a garage or playing baseball.

Second....my point is a 6 year old TRULY doesn't really know what they want. But my bigger point is maybe the parent is trying to live his dreams in the eyes of his son/daughter. And by you wanting or encouraging your kid to play year round (at 6 years old) they most likely willl listen to you.

Those are my points.

[muckandgrind]

Pinky - don't you think stinkhandling a ball or puck in the garage develops hand to eye coordination MUCH more than take a couple of swings at a baseball???

And as far as your second comment, that's a cop-out and you know it....unless you think ALL kids are the same, and ALL kids MUST be playing additional ORGANIZED sports.

You didn't understand either of my points.

You said playing baseball doesn't help a hockey player. I said yes it does for hand eye coordination. I didn't make any argument to which is better, stickhandling in a garage or playing baseball.

Second....my point is a 6 year old TRULY doesn't really know what they want. But my bigger point is maybe the parent is trying to live his dreams in the eyes of his son/daughter. And by you wanting or encouraging your kid to play year round (at 6 years old) they most likely willl listen to you.

Those are my points.

Who's 6 year old are we talking about?? I certainly don't have one. and I don't know of any 2004 AAA teams....do you?

[drop the puck]

Pinky - don't you think stinkhandling a ball or puck in the garage develops hand to eye coordination MUCH more than take a couple of swings at a baseball???

And as far as your second comment, that's a cop-out and you know it....unless you think ALL kids are the same, and ALL kids MUST be playing additional ORGANIZED sports.

You didn't understand either of my points.

You said playing baseball doesn't help a hockey player. I said yes it does for hand eye coordination. I didn't make any argument to which is better, stickhandling in a garage or playing baseball.

Second....my point is a 6 year old TRULY doesn't really know what they want. But my bigger point is maybe the parent is trying to live his dreams in the eyes of his son/daughter. And by you wanting or encouraging your kid to play year round (at 6 years old) they most likely willl listen to you.

Those are my points.

Who's 6 year old are we talking about?? I certainly don't have one. and I don't know of any 2004 AAA teams....do you?

If they formed the 2004 AAA league today the parents of these pre-schoolers would be signing them up

[Pinky]

Pinky - don't you think stinkhandling a ball or puck in the garage develops hand to eye coordination MUCH more than take a couple of swings at a baseball???

And as far as your second comment, that's a cop-out and you know it....unless you think ALL kids are the same, and ALL kids MUST be playing additional ORGANIZED sports. :roll:

You didn't understand either of my points.

You said playing baseball doesn't help a hockey player. I said yes it does for hand eye coordination. I didn't make any argument to which is better, stickhandling in a garage or playing baseball.

Second....my point is a 6 year old TRULY doesn't really know what they want. But my bigger point is maybe the parent is trying to live his dreams in the eyes of his son/daughter. And by you wanting or encouraging your kid to play year round (at 6 years old) they most likely willl listen to you.

Those are my points.

Who's 6 year old are we talking about?? I certainly don't have one. and I don't know of any 2004 AAA teams....do you?

Not referring to AAA

[HockeyDad41]

Pinky - don't you think stinkhandling a ball or puck in the garage develops hand to eye coordination MUCH more than take a couple of swings at a baseball???

And as far as your second comment, that's a cop-out and you know it....unless you think ALL kids are the same, and ALL kids MUST be playing additional ORGANIZED sports.

You didn't understand either of my points.

You said playing baseball doesn't help a hockey player. I said yes it does for hand eye coordination. I didn't make any argument to which is better, stickhandling in a garage or playing baseball.

Second....my point is a 6 year old TRULY doesn't really know what they want. But my bigger point is maybe the parent is trying to live his dreams in the eyes of his son/daughter. And by you wanting or encouraging your kid to play year round (at 6 years old) they most likely willl listen to you.

Those are my points.

Who's 6 year old are we talking about?? I certainly don't have one. and I don't know of any 2004 AAA teams....do you?

If they formed the 2004 AAA league today the parents of these pre-schoolers would be signing them up

I would for sure.

[InigoMontoya]

If they formed the 2004 AAA league today the parents of these pre-schoolers would be signing them up

That must not be true, for if the parents would sign them up, they'd form the 2004 teams.

[BluntInstrument]

Pinky - don't you think stinkhandling a ball or puck in the garage develops hand to eye coordination MUCH more than take a couple of swings at a baseball???

And as far as your second comment, that's a cop-out and you know it....unless you think ALL kids are the same, and ALL kids MUST be playing additional ORGANIZED sports.

You didn't understand either of my points.

You said playing baseball doesn't help a hockey player. I said yes it does for hand eye coordination. I didn't make any argument to which is better, stickhandling in a garage or playing baseball.

Second....my point is a 6 year old TRULY doesn't really know what they want. But my bigger point is maybe the parent is trying to live his dreams in the eyes of his son/daughter. And by you wanting or encouraging your kid to play year round (at 6 years old) they most likely willl listen to you.

Those are my points.

I think many here are in violent agreement. this isn't complete but maybe a good representation :

1 ) Parents sign kids up for AAA even if kid isnt that interested and never asked, parents don't want them to fall behind. May even force them to play other sports to stay well rounded. Is that wrong ?

2) KIDS push their parents to sign up for AAA and play other sports because they choose to. Is that wrong ?

3) KIDS push their parents to sign up for AAA and DON'T play other sports because KID doesn't want to. Is that wrong should they be made to play ?

4) KIDS push their parents to sign up for AAA AND Parents push them to play other sports so they are well rounded. Is that wrong ?
are they any better than #1 ?

4) KIDS push their parents to sign up for AAA but parents say no because they need to take summer off. May or may not play other sports if kid wants to. Is that wrong ?
are they any better than #1 ?


Me ? I think vast majority would answer the same, if kids want to play AAA and others sports why not. When you start pushing them into something they dont want, whether its AAA OR Camps OR in season sport, that is when the trouble starts

Also brings up another dilema or perhaps that is what many are talking about : Do you need to save the kids from themselves and say no to AAA or camps even if they want to ? or is it OK to say no to AAA but yes to camps because AAA are games ?

By the way I think games baseball and AAA are good and help in other sports ... both physical and, I believe, it teaches the kids to compete. I let the kid guide me into what he or she wants, provide them opportunities to succeed. I bet thats what vast majority do ... be wary of those who don't.[/size]

[drop the puck]

If they formed the 2004 AAA league today the parents of these pre-schoolers would be signing them up

That must not be true, for if the parents would sign them up, they'd form the 2004 teams.

2004AAA is an elite league with only invites. No open try-outs so your kids were not invited.


Regarding camps ... most metro players do more summer long camps that run over several months at a rate that varies from under $10/hour to maybe $25/hour. Many good local camps run by local coaches. Check your local rink. Great thing about these is if you miss a day or a week, you are not loosing much on the financial basis.

The very few resident camps my kids have attended have averaged 3 hours ice time per day and 1 hour dry-land (shooting, stick handling, etc). Never as great a deal on hockey training per hour basis. They do learn some independence ... mom ain't there to remind them to hang up this or open their bag or ....

[MrBoDangles]

If you think your kid will get burned out, then encourage them to take a break, but don't believe for a second that all kids are the same. Some kids thrive playing hockey year round.

You are not wrong but here is an expert's opinion and its pretty interesting:

In this article for parents, youth sports expert Brian Grasso discusses the trend in the U.S. for specializing in one sport at an early age. Brian provides invaluable insight for parents when deciding at what age to have kids specialize in one sport. Brian also looks at the trends in other countries as well as explains the theory of multilateral development and how it can help our kids.

Multilateral development is a theory that urges young athletes to participate in several sports over their childhood and adolescent periods prior to specializing in one. The basis is that varied athletic stimulus will serve to broaden the youngsters’ “warehouse” or “portfolio” of general athletic ability and develop a thorough or expansive base on which to build and eventually specialize. While the concepts are well known and the research citing success far reaching, it is still not an embraced reality within North American youth sports the reality is that pro sports are dominated by individuals who participated in more than one sport as kids. By no means am I suggesting that excelling in more than one sport is important, but actively participating in a variety of athletic endeavors as you grow physiologically and psychologically is key. These realities extend beyond just developing good athletic ability. In fact, one of the problems I’ve encountered and often explained to parents and coaches in youth-training seminars is that there is more than just a physical burn-out associated with specialized sporting endeavors.

The obvious key is that specialization will result in a decreased amount of overall athletic ability, which will inevitably become a hindrance as young athletes mature. In my experience, the athletes with the most diverse athletic history are often better equipped to learn and develop skills at the higher ends of a given sport once specialization has been determined. Above and beyond that, however, there is also a mental stimulation component to athletic development. If baseball is a 12-month sport, for example, at what point does a 9-year-old begin to lose interest?

To answer that question, just think about the average 9-year-old’s attention span in general. That’s not to say that your 9-year-old isn’t truly enjoying every second of playing hockey throughout the year, but inevitably, he will be “enjoying” the game and “focusing” on it more at certain points and less at others – that’s the nature of being a kid. It’s in these downtimes that bad and lazy habits can be developed. Keeping a youngster truly energized and excited about playing and learning new skills is a key component to athletic development that is very often overlooked.

Another overlooked feature of why multilateral development remains the best option for young people is the tactical aspects associated with sport. Even if your child engages in numerous other informal modes of athletic stimulus, he or she is only being truly challenged with the tactics and game speed of baseball. For example, baseball is a notoriously slow game, especially at the youth level. Developing optimal “quick-wittedness” and “game smarts” may best be done via participation in several sports. Although the arguments either for or against multilateral development are typically waged on the physical spectrum, in reality, the successful development of a young athlete is also heavily influenced by items such as mental and emotional perspicacity and tactical (sporting) smarts.

Something to think about
http://www.coloradoavalanchecares.com/c ... too-early/

-Coach

That all sounds nice, but if a kid doesn't want to play baseball, football, volleyball, tiddly-winks or any other sport...I'm not going to force them.

Let's consider soccer...how many multi-sport athletes do you think they have in countries like Brazil? My bet is most of those star players who come from countries like Brazil play a single sport and yet, astonishly, they are the dominant players in the world.

My take is that there is no "right" or "wrong" way of doing it. I know of many "elite" level players in different sports who only played their sport; whether that be basketball, football, baseball, soccer or hockey.

I have seen no evidence of kids who play hockey in the summer, somehow falling behind those who do not. In fact, I see just the opposite. That's not to say that multi-sport athletes can't excel as well. Like I said, there is no "right" or "wrong" way.

I just get tired of hearing this same ol' argument every year come spring. Each parent and each player must decide what is right for them. If your little Johnny or Janie wants to take the summer off from hockey and play baseball or soccer or just go fishin'....GREAT!!! But if they prefer to play AAA hockey.....again, GREAT!!! Anything to keep them off the couch is good in my book.[/quote]





Great post

[HockeyDad41]

If they formed the 2004 AAA league today the parents of these pre-schoolers would be signing them up

That must not be true, for if the parents would sign them up, they'd form the 2004 teams.

2004AAA is an elite league with only invites. No open try-outs so your kids were not invited.


Regarding camps ... most metro players do more summer long camps that run over several months at a rate that varies from under $10/hour to maybe $25/hour. Many good local camps run by local coaches. Check your local rink. Great thing about these is if you miss a day or a week, you are not loosing much on the financial basis.

The very few resident camps my kids have attended have averaged 3 hours ice time per day and 1 hour dry-land (shooting, stick handling, etc). Never as great a deal on hockey training per hour basis. They do learn some independence ... mom ain't there to remind them to hang up this or open their bag or ....

That is so awesome! 2004 ELITE AAA. Can you please let us know what the tournament schedule is? Do you think they will allow a 2005 to play up a level if he's good enough?

[Mite-dad]

I'm all for letting the kids play hockey all year if they have fire for it. If they get burned out, they don't have to play the next summer. My kids love to play baseball too, so they don't do as much hockey in the summer. Its baseball through July, then we do a camp or two, then they play in a fall league. That means they are playing basically from August through February. That's 7 months of hockey and plenty in my opinion.

One thing that I believe is that the cream will rise to the top no matter how much they play in the summer. If Johnny doesn't have the genes to be an elite hockey player, all the summer hockey in the world isn't going to make him elite. On the other hand, the kid w/ elite potential that plays other sports in summer will still probably end up an elite player.

I would like to see the stats that show that all this summer hockey has increased the number of kids from MN making it to the NHL or even DI for that matter. It would be interesting to see if it has actually made a difference.

[muckandgrind]

I would like to see the stats that show that all this summer hockey has increased the number of kids from MN making it to the NHL or even DI for that matter. It would be interesting to see if it has actually made a difference.

For starters, you can check out the Alumni page at www.minnesotablades.com.

I've already mentioned that we should look at the rosters of the Adv 15-17 teams when they are announced and determine the ratio of players who play(ed) AAA vs those that didn't.

[old goalie85]

I know all the kids from Forest Lake that were invited, Played baseball,Are enrolled in PHIT, and played AAA , or summer leagues of some sort. Phit is the one that I had a problem with. Skate five days a week and dryland five days a week from march untill nov. Only 3900.00 bucks. [ they just started a pee wee program this year]