Development Opinions

[O-townClown]

Quasar, Bo:

I think the part you are missing is that Honeybaked is anything but a "local option". Players move there and billet, all for the glory of playing on a sponsored Detroit-area team in the Tier I League (f/k/a MWEHL).

Players from Minnesota have that option as much as:

* the kid from Tampa that is headed to play SQUIRTS for a team in Chicago
* Rocco Grimaldi who moved from California for Bantams
* Ryan Carpenter, who spent two years in Detroit and two more in the USHL after playing is first year past Bantams on a Jr. C team in Florida
* the goalie from Naples that will play for Little Caesars as a 1st year Pee Wee next season
* the handful of kids off the Tier I PW runner-up Florida Everblades that are moving to Michigan to live with host families
* Kevin Conway's son, who decided not to play in Florida after moving from England, instead choosing Tier I hockey in Michigan with a host family his dad lined up for him

and so on and so on and so on.

Why don't kids from Minnesota choose that option? Because they don't have to. There is a lot of hockey played in the state.

You are correct, the best players aren't on just five teams. Except in the Elite league, which serves its purpose well.

I'm not arguing that either place is superior to the other, but I will point out you are flat-out wrong that players in Minnesota don't have this option. If Rocco Grimaldi and the players above have this option, the best Minnesotans do too.

One of the things missing for Minnesota to have Tier I youth hockey on the level of Michigan is some serious sponsorship money. Little Caesars, Belle Tire, Honeybaked, Compuware, and Victory Honda make a huge investment into these programs.

Looking at things in this light, I'm amazed at how few players were drafted from the EJHL, NAHL, Tier I Midget U18 leagues, and New England boarding schools. It is pretty clear that things are flowing through the USHL (I'm including NTDP) and that the only other part of America where a good chunk of pro prospects played is Varsity hockey in Minnesota.

A lot of USHL players come from the Tier I League, but a lot don't.

[MrBoDangles]

Quasar, Bo:

I think the part you are missing is that Honeybaked is anything but a "local option". Players move there and billet, all for the glory of playing on a sponsored Detroit-area team in the Tier I League (f/k/a MWEHL).

Players from Minnesota have that option as much as:

* the kid from Tampa that is headed to play SQUIRTS for a team in Chicago
* Rocco Grimaldi who moved from California for Bantams
* Ryan Carpenter, who spent two years in Detroit and two more in the USHL after playing is first year past Bantams on a Jr. C team in Florida
* the goalie from Naples that will play for Little Caesars as a 1st year Pee Wee next season
* the handful of kids off the Tier I PW runner-up Florida Everblades that are moving to Michigan to live with host families
* Kevin Conway's son, who decided not to play in Florida after moving from England, instead choosing Tier I hockey in Michigan with a host family his dad lined up for him

and so on and so on and so on.

Why don't kids from Minnesota choose that option? Because they don't have to. There is a lot of hockey played in the state.

You are correct, the best players aren't on just five teams. Except in the Elite league, which serves its purpose well.

I'm not arguing that either place is superior to the other, but I will point out you are flat-out wrong that players in Minnesota don't have this option. If Rocco Grimaldi and the players above have this option, the best Minnesotans do too.

One of the things missing for Minnesota to have Tier I youth hockey on the level of Michigan is some serious sponsorship money. Little Caesars, Belle Tire, Honeybaked, Compuware, and Victory Honda make a huge investment into these programs.

Looking at things in this light, I'm amazed at how few players were drafted from the EJHL, NAHL, Tier I Midget U18 leagues, and New England boarding schools. It is pretty clear that things are flowing through the USHL (I'm including NTDP) and that the only other part of America where a good chunk of pro prospects played is Varsity hockey in Minnesota.

A lot of USHL players come from the Tier I League, but a lot don't.

Yes, YES! Minnesotan's do have the option to LEAVE their state to play tier 1. Why leave the state when you could have it five minutes from home?

That list of kids would of come here if our winter model was so spectacular.

[Quasar]

Have you ever played 80+ high level games in a season? You're asking a young man to maintain his focus and health and improve his skills...the same demands that are placed on pro's who have a staff of trainers, nutricianists and coaches dedicated to keeping them going. When the worlds best players grind through that schedule...what makes you think that is good option to develope your boy?

Yes. Let me add this thought. what transpires between me and my son is our business. If he wants to put in the extreme effort, and we are willing to support him he should have every opportunity to succeed. I understand most people don't build a rink in their back yard, don't play 70 plus games as squirts, and don't play on three summer teams
All were asking is give us an avenue to continue our training regimen when our sons become high school age.

I just don't see how it hurts anyone to have some kind of program for the few that don't want to follow the herd.

[Quasar]

Quasar, Bo:

I think the part you are missing is that Honeybaked is anything but a "local option". Players move there and billet, all for the glory of playing on a sponsored Detroit-area team in the Tier I League (f/k/a MWEHL).

Players from Minnesota have that option as much as:

* the kid from Tampa that is headed to play SQUIRTS for a team in Chicago
* Rocco Grimaldi who moved from California for Bantams
* Ryan Carpenter, who spent two years in Detroit and two more in the USHL after playing is first year past Bantams on a Jr. C team in Florida
* the goalie from Naples that will play for Little Caesars as a 1st year Pee Wee next season
* the handful of kids off the Tier I PW runner-up Florida Everblades that are moving to Michigan to live with host families
* Kevin Conway's son, who decided not to play in Florida after moving from England, instead choosing Tier I hockey in Michigan with a host family his dad lined up for him

and so on and so on and so on.

Why don't kids from Minnesota choose that option? Because they don't have to. There is a lot of hockey played in the state.

You are correct, the best players aren't on just five teams. Except in the Elite league, which serves its purpose well.

I'm not arguing that either place is superior to the other, but I will point out you are flat-out wrong that players in Minnesota don't have this option. If Rocco Grimaldi and the players above have this option, the best Minnesotans do too.

One of the things missing for Minnesota to have Tier I youth hockey on the level of Michigan is some serious sponsorship money. Little Caesars, Belle Tire, Honeybaked, Compuware, and Victory Honda make a huge investment into these programs.

Looking at things in this light, I'm amazed at how few players were drafted from the EJHL, NAHL, Tier I Midget U18 leagues, and New England boarding schools. It is pretty clear that things are flowing through the USHL (I'm including NTDP) and that the only other part of America where a good chunk of pro prospects played is Varsity hockey in Minnesota.

A lot of USHL players come from the Tier I League, but a lot don't.

Yes, YES! Minnesotan's do have the option to LEAVE their state to play tier 1. Why leave the state when you could have it five minutes from home?

That list of kids would of come here if our winter model was so spectacular.

Exactly the point!!! We have the best arenas, good coaches, involved parents, motivated kids.

It would be so simple, and cost effective to allow a choice for the few that want it..

I hear rumors that it's not far off. there are many sheets of ice in the metro that are owned by businessmen who are not beholden to the Minnesota hockey organization.

O Town, Your argument about kids having to billet etc is a good one. I agree. Let's have it right here within 30 minutes of most everyone in the Metro.

[Quasar]

Quasar, Bo:

I think the part you are missing is that Honeybaked is anything but a "local option". Players move there and billet, all for the glory of playing on a sponsored Detroit-area team in the Tier I League (f/k/a MWEHL).

Players from Minnesota have that option as much as:

* the kid from Tampa that is headed to play SQUIRTS for a team in Chicago
* Rocco Grimaldi who moved from California for Bantams
* Ryan Carpenter, who spent two years in Detroit and two more in the USHL after playing is first year past Bantams on a Jr. C team in Florida
* the goalie from Naples that will play for Little Caesars as a 1st year Pee Wee next season
* the handful of kids off the Tier I PW runner-up Florida Everblades that are moving to Michigan to live with host families
* Kevin Conway's son, who decided not to play in Florida after moving from England, instead choosing Tier I hockey in Michigan with a host family his dad lined up for him

and so on and so on and so on.

Why don't kids from Minnesota choose that option? Because they don't have to. There is a lot of hockey played in the state.

You are correct, the best players aren't on just five teams. Except in the Elite league, which serves its purpose well.

I'm not arguing that either place is superior to the other, but I will point out you are flat-out wrong that players in Minnesota don't have this option. If Rocco Grimaldi and the players above have this option, the best Minnesotans do too.

One of the things missing for Minnesota to have Tier I youth hockey on the level of Michigan is some serious sponsorship money. Little Caesars, Belle Tire, Honeybaked, Compuware, and Victory Honda make a huge investment into these programs.

Looking at things in this light, I'm amazed at how few players were drafted from the EJHL, NAHL, Tier I Midget U18 leagues, and New England boarding schools. It is pretty clear that things are flowing through the USHL (I'm including NTDP) and that the only other part of America where a good chunk of pro prospects played is Varsity hockey in Minnesota.

A lot of USHL players come from the Tier I League, but a lot don't.

It's looking like everyone has to go through the juniors anymore. Not many high school grads making college teams without a year or two of juniors.

Varsity hockey is alive and well in Minnesota, and it's as much fun now as it was 40 years ago. Might not be for everyone ?

Sponsorship needs a vehicle .. Many teams in many associations have sponsor money in Minnesota. However, if a company is going to spend big bucks they need to see some kind of return.
National exposure is not possible in Minnesota because our teams do not compete at the national level.

The National sports center in Blaine has high visibility sponsorship because it makes sense for them. If there was a league in Minnesota similar to the Hpl which is forming in Chi/Det as we speak, Sponsorship might be a possibility here.

People need to get over the need to control everything.. I've spent a lot of time reading the USA, and Minnesota handbooks.
They have built quite a bureaucracy between them. In Minnesota some of the names have been here forever. Not opposed to any of that for the people that want it. Not advocating over throwing anybody. Just wondering why they seem to be against anything that doesn't fit into their vision of youth hockey.

Change is coming to Minnesota hockey. It will be the natural extension of the vibrant summer AAA scene. The numbers of kids in the various choice leagues being offered in the winter is a leading indicator.
Minnesota hockey will survive, and prosper. The high School league will survive and prosper, I just hope we do it right this time ....

[greybeard58]

If you want winter Tier I hockey and play in the USA Hockey system other than the Fire then get together with those who want that and place a proposal with the Mn Hockey board so far no one has come forth with any proposal for the boys. If you want private the go for it but then it will be very limited for competition. Force Minn Hockey to compete for players is good for the players.
It also seem most college coaches want the 21 year old freshman rather than the 18 year old,but that has been that way for many years.
As far as National exposure there is more in Minnesota than anywhere else,pro scouts and college scouts and Jr scouts are here all winter long and the numbers of Minn players playing college and not only being drafted but playing hockey top all other states.
This years draft of the 15 Mn players 10 were High school, 1 from Shattuck, 1 from the USA 18 team and 3 from the USHL. Other states 3 High school players from Conn. 2 from Mass. and 1 from Wisc.

[Quasar]

If you want winter Tier I hockey and play in the USA Hockey system other than the Fire then get together with those who want that and place a proposal with the Mn Hockey board so far no one has come forth with any proposal for the boys. If you want private the go for it but then it will be very limited for competition. Force Minn Hockey to compete for players is good for the players.
It also seem most college coaches want the 21 year old freshman rather than the 18 year old,but that has been that way for many years.
As far as National exposure there is more in Minnesota than anywhere else,pro scouts and college scouts and Jr scouts are here all winter long and the numbers of Minn players playing college and not only being drafted but playing hockey top all other states.
This years draft of the 15 Mn players 10 were High school, 1 from Shattuck, 1 from the USA 18 team and 3 from the USHL. Other states 3 High school players from Conn. 2 from Mass. and 1 from Wisc.

Hi Beard,
Actually, what I want is for the districts to form elite teams that would become High performance clubs (HPC) within the Minnesota, and USA hockey models.

They could compete on a national level representing the best of Minnesota hockey.

I agree that individual exposure is great for Minnesota kids. I know we produce many of best hockey players in the country.

When I was talking about exposure I meant for local companies that have a national audience. Like 3M for instance. Or Maybe Burger King to sponsor individual teams thereby reducing the heavy cost of National travel etc.

As for making a proposal to the Minnesota hockey board, that's for the parents of this years squirts. They will be at the bridge before they know it.

I also think the big AAA train has left the station. It would be in everyone's best interest to figure out how it's going to effect them, and make some decisions about how they are going to fit within the new hockey structure.

[MrBoDangles]

If you want winter Tier I hockey and play in the USA Hockey system other than the Fire then get together with those who want that and place a proposal with the Mn Hockey board so far no one has come forth with any proposal for the boys. If you want private the go for it but then it will be very limited for competition. Force Minn Hockey to compete for players is good for the players.
It also seem most college coaches want the 21 year old freshman rather than the 18 year old,but that has been that way for many years.
As far as National exposure there is more in Minnesota than anywhere else,pro scouts and college scouts and Jr scouts are here all winter long and the numbers of Minn players playing college and not only being drafted but playing hockey top all other states.
This years draft of the 15 Mn players 10 were High school, 1 from Shattuck, 1 from the USA 18 team and 3 from the USHL. Other states 3 High school players from Conn. 2 from Mass. and 1 from Wisc.

What do you think will help Minnesota start to develop prolific scorers at the higher levels? Minnesota does put out a high number of quality players.... but something is missing when it comes to the leader board in scoring.

I've heard Lucia, Nanne, and many others say that we play way too few games in Minnesota High School Hockey. Should we take anything from this? If we are not playing enough games is it possible that the same is true in the youth ranks?

Is it possible that we're developing world class skaters for the higher ranks with our climate... but they're not true veterans of the competition they need?

[Quasar]

If you want winter Tier I hockey and play in the USA Hockey system other than the Fire then get together with those who want that and place a proposal with the Mn Hockey board so far no one has come forth with any proposal for the boys. If you want private the go for it but then it will be very limited for competition. Force Minn Hockey to compete for players is good for the players.
It also seem most college coaches want the 21 year old freshman rather than the 18 year old,but that has been that way for many years.
As far as National exposure there is more in Minnesota than anywhere else,pro scouts and college scouts and Jr scouts are here all winter long and the numbers of Minn players playing college and not only being drafted but playing hockey top all other states.
This years draft of the 15 Mn players 10 were High school, 1 from Shattuck, 1 from the USA 18 team and 3 from the USHL. Other states 3 High school players from Conn. 2 from Mass. and 1 from Wisc.

What do you think will help Minnesota start to develop prolific scorers at the higher levels? Minnesota does put out a high number of quality players.... but something is missing when it comes to the leader board in scoring.

I've heard Lucia, Nanne, and many others say that we play way too few games in Minnesota High School Hockey. Should we take anything from this? If we are not playing enough games is it possible that the same is true in the youth ranks?

Is it possible that we're developing world class skaters for the higher ranks with our climate... but they're not true veterans of the competition they need?

Here is hypothetical case study..

A kid is skating on the squirt C team because he is a runt. But his Dad keeps on pushing, pushing, pushing. Peewee ... still too small for the people making the selections, so it's first year Peewee B. The dad doesn't give up. He keeps pushing, pushing, pushing..
14 years old ..pre July birthday ..Guess what ? yeah...he's a small 120 pounder looking up at Bantam men!!!

But the Dad just keeps pushing, pushing pushing..

The kid returns to summer AAA.. Oh my god!! He's on the first line.
Also he is now 5'7" 145 and has skated thousands of hours over his career in youth hockey.. He goes to his high schools summer training camp. Guess what he's one of the best kids on the team as a 9th grader..

Ok.... Now what does he do ???

If he plays for his High school he will become one more good high school player in the State of Minnesota... He will go from promise within his grasp to one of the gang. By the time he's done with high school he wont know how to score more than 30 points. because that's a big deal in High School. When he gets out of high school he's drafted in the third round and sent to play on a junior team,were he becomes a role player...

Then if he works real hard he'll get to play D1... perhaps even a shot at the NHL.

But...He will never be the star of any team after his last year varsity because the Minnesota high school system taught him that he had everything he needed.

Too bad he won't understand any of the above until his first exposure to the competitive world of junior hockey.

This kid needs a choice at 15...not 20!!!!

[O-townClown]

Same old same old argument. You are wrong to think all is well in the Detroit Tier I model. The problem with it, for some, is that there are so many kids that don't get the opportunity because of the misplaced emphasis on winning. By misplaced I mean relying on out of state players to win a game at age 10 or 12.

Minnesota has a model that creates an incredibly broad base. For those that are top performers they can supplement the traditional HS season with Fall Elite league. If that's not enough there is the USHL, which is basically functioning as HPC hockey for age 17-19 without the formal USA Hockey designation.

The same pro-Tier I youth hockey argument will be regurgitated again I'm sure. There isn't a lot of support for it, or if there is the support isn't very well organized yet.

Aren't there plenty of things within the Minnesota Hockey model that are increasing the quality of youth competition for the better teams?

[Quasar]

Same old same old argument. You are wrong to think all is well in the Detroit Tier I model. The problem with it, for some, is that there are so many kids that don't get the opportunity because of the misplaced emphasis on winning. By misplaced I mean relying on out of state players to win a game at age 10 or 12.

Minnesota has a model that creates an incredibly broad base. For those that are top performers they can supplement the traditional HS season with Fall Elite league. If that's not enough there is the USHL, which is basically functioning as HPC hockey for age 17-19 without the formal USA Hockey designation.

The same pro-Tier I youth hockey argument will be regurgitated again I'm sure. There isn't a lot of support for it, or if there is the support isn't very well organized yet.

Aren't there plenty of things within the Minnesota Hockey model that are increasing the quality of youth competition for the better teams?

I agree with some of your reasoning, I disagree with some...

I can tell you I am not a fan of any thing Detroit!!

Actually we agree on more than you think ..

Read my previous post and give me your answer for the kid in the example given.

You played in the Minnesota High school system,, I hope that wasn't you.

[O-townClown]

Here is hypothetical case study..

This kid needs a choice at 15...not 20!!!!

Okay, I had a hard time following your hypothetical. Dad kept pushing? Okay, I know how that ends.

He has a choice at 15. He can play for the HS program where he lives, attend a private school, seek a Prep School in the Northeast, leave for U16 Midget in the U.S., and probably a few things I left out. This is more opportunity than anyone else in the country.

I'm beginning to realize these arguments are nonsensical. Canadians move away for hockey at that age. Most of the United States sees kids move away for hockey at that age. Minnesotans don't have to, which I've always considered a good thing.

You are really just saying you aren't willing to have this kid do something that is considered very normal in the hockey world.

A kid got drafted this week and the GM cited the price paid by the young man as a reason they liked him. To this exec, it showed commitment.

I wholly agree that 10th grade is a year where Minnesotans might miss out a little. Too young for the Elite league. So maybe we're looking at a one-year issue. That's age 15-16, an important year. At least as important as any other.

I think we've seen enough anecdotal evidence to say that moving away to accelerate things for that one year doesn't mean much when the kids are all 18.

[MrBoDangles]

Here is hypothetical case study..

This kid needs a choice at 15...not 20!!!!

Okay, I had a hard time following your hypothetical. Dad kept pushing? Okay, I know how that ends.

He has a choice at 15. He can play for the HS program where he lives, attend a private school, seek a Prep School in the Northeast, leave for U16 Midget in the U.S., and probably a few things I left out. This is more opportunity than anyone else in the country.

I'm beginning to realize these arguments are nonsensical. Canadians move away for hockey at that age. Most of the United States sees kids move away for hockey at that age. Minnesotans don't have to, which I've always considered a good thing.

You are really just saying you aren't willing to have this kid do something that is considered very normal in the hockey world.

A kid got drafted this week and the GM cited the price paid by the young man as a reason they liked him. To this exec, it showed commitment.

I wholly agree that 10th grade is a year where Minnesotans might miss out a little. Too young for the Elite league. So maybe we're looking at a one-year issue. That's age 15-16, an important year. At least as important as any other.

I think we've seen enough anecdotal evidence to say that moving away to accelerate things for that one year doesn't mean much when the kids are all 18.

So you're saying the Florida kids are missing out on playing in our 25 game HS league? Minnesota kids ARE missing out on OPTIONS of playing on teams that play 80 games locally.. I know travel is required, but will still be able to live at home.

Is Minnesota going to stay with having to billet out our kids for other options?

[Quasar]

Here is hypothetical case study..

This kid needs a choice at 15...not 20!!!!

Okay, I had a hard time following your hypothetical. Dad kept pushing? Okay, I know how that ends.

He has a choice at 15. He can play for the HS program where he lives, attend a private school, seek a Prep School in the Northeast, leave for U16 Midget in the U.S., and probably a few things I left out. This is more opportunity than anyone else in the country.

I'm beginning to realize these arguments are nonsensical. Canadians move away for hockey at that age. Most of the United States sees kids move away for hockey at that age. Minnesotans don't have to, which I've always considered a good thing.

You are really just saying you aren't willing to have this kid do something that is considered very normal in the hockey world.

A kid got drafted this week and the GM cited the price paid by the young man as a reason they liked him. To this exec, it showed commitment.

I wholly agree that 10th grade is a year where Minnesotans might miss out a little. Too young for the Elite league. So maybe we're looking at a one-year issue. That's age 15-16, an important year. At least as important as any other.

I think we've seen enough anecdotal evidence to say that moving away to accelerate things for that one year doesn't mean much when the kids are all 18.

I agree with everything you've said..
Yes there are many choices for him.

The arguments are not nonsensical ... Here is the question?

If you're this kids Dad, do you want to tell him he can't play at his high school? Think about the day you made the varsity team. Remember that feeling? For this kid at this moment there is no choice. He is going to play for his high school, and no one will change his mind. So if your the Dad, you've hit the wall because you know you can't overcome the lure of varsity hockey. And if you push him you will lose him. Not a good choice.

By the way ..I don't know what your experience was ...But ..Pushing someone to excel is not a bad thing!!

[O-townClown]

So you're saying the Florida kids are missing out on playing in our 25 game HS league?

Virtually all of the country misses out on playing something meaningful like this where excelling will get you an opportunity to play beyond HS.

[Quasar]

Here is hypothetical case study..

This kid needs a choice at 15...not 20!!!!

Okay, I had a hard time following your hypothetical. Dad kept pushing? Okay, I know how that ends.

He has a choice at 15. He can play for the HS program where he lives, attend a private school, seek a Prep School in the Northeast, leave for U16 Midget in the U.S., and probably a few things I left out. This is more opportunity than anyone else in the country.

I'm beginning to realize these arguments are nonsensical. Canadians move away for hockey at that age. Most of the United States sees kids move away for hockey at that age. Minnesotans don't have to, which I've always considered a good thing.

You are really just saying you aren't willing to have this kid do something that is considered very normal in the hockey world.

A kid got drafted this week and the GM cited the price paid by the young man as a reason they liked him. To this exec, it showed commitment.

I wholly agree that 10th grade is a year where Minnesotans might miss out a little. Too young for the Elite league. So maybe we're looking at a one-year issue. That's age 15-16, an important year. At least as important as any other.

I think we've seen enough anecdotal evidence to say that moving away to accelerate things for that one year doesn't mean much when the kids are all 18.

So you're saying the Florida kids are missing out on playing in our 25 game HS league? Minnesota kids ARE missing out on OPTIONS of playing on teams that play 80 games locally.. I know travel is required, but will still be able to live at home.

Is Minnesota going to stay with having to billet out our kids for other options?

Outside opinions are always welcome , but carry little weight..

most everyone who has left Minnesota for greener pastures misses what they remember.

The problem with the Minnesota High School social hockey club is well known. You are correct to ask the question, and I am sure you know the answer.

We will billet our kids in their bedrooms at home and drive them to the super rink for their 80 games. They will compete and win at the national level, and no body will die!!!!

It's just a matter of time.

[O-townClown]

[If you're this kids Dad, do you want to tell him he can't play at his high school? Think about the day you made the varsity team. Remember that feeling? For this kid at this moment there is no choice. He is going to play for his high school, and no one will change his mind. So if your the Dad, you've hit the wall because you know you can't overcome the lure of varsity hockey. And if you push him you will lose him. Not a good choice.

By the way ..I don't know what your experience was ...But ..Pushing someone to excel is not a bad thing!!

If he does extremely well in HS hockey, he'll have opportunities to keep playing. Didn't Kyle Rau just get picked in the 2nd Round? He's small like your example. Is the problem that Minnesota doesn't offer opportunity, or that many of the players aren't good enough? You have to be great to play NCAA Division I or get drafted at that size.

Look at what all these options do for kids. Shane McColgan moved away and did well in the WHL, and he was still only a 4th Round pick. We were reading about him impressing at that Bauer thing where the L.A. team played the Elite kids from Minnesota. He sure seemed to be on a faster track. Three years later? Whoopdeefrickin' do. Rau went before him and Travis Boyd. Who know who lasts longest in the NHL. My point is that you can't tell me your HS kid is done by any stretch of the imagination. If he's great, he'll do great.

The OHL is obviously the highest level for a 17-year-old in North America. Look at how many kids don't get drafted by an NHL team. It doesn't automatically suck every kid up several levels.

To answer your question, yes. I'm okay with him playing HS and support the decision completely. If it isn't enough hockey for him there are so many ways to augment.

[Quasar]

Bo ..

I seem to have pulled this conversation away from your original question.

Sorry ... O-Town has that effect on me.

The discussion is becoming too circular for me .. besides I have work to do in the garden.

Thanks for an interesting question. And an interesting Sunday morning. Q

[MrBoDangles]

[If you're this kids Dad, do you want to tell him he can't play at his high school? Think about the day you made the varsity team. Remember that feeling? For this kid at this moment there is no choice. He is going to play for his high school, and no one will change his mind. So if your the Dad, you've hit the wall because you know you can't overcome the lure of varsity hockey. And if you push him you will lose him. Not a good choice.

By the way ..I don't know what your experience was ...But ..Pushing someone to excel is not a bad thing!!

If he does extremely well in HS hockey, he'll have opportunities to keep playing. Didn't Kyle Rau just get picked in the 2nd Round? He's small like your example. Is the problem that Minnesota doesn't offer opportunity, or that many of the players aren't good enough? You have to be great to play NCAA Division I or get drafted at that size.

Look at what all these options do for kids. Shane McColgan moved away and did well in the WHL, and he was still only a 4th Round pick. We were reading about him impressing at that Bauer thing where the L.A. team played the Elite kids from Minnesota. He sure seemed to be on a faster track. Three years later? Whoopdeefrickin' do. Rau went before him and Travis Boyd. Who know who lasts longest in the NHL. My point is that you can't tell me your HS kid is done by any stretch of the imagination. If he's great, he'll do great.

The OHL is obviously the highest level for a 17-year-old in North America. Look at how many kids don't get drafted by an NHL team. It doesn't automatically suck every kid up several levels.

To answer your question, yes. I'm okay with him playing HS and support the decision completely. If it isn't enough hockey for him there are so many ways to augment.

to your examples

BBB sums it up well again on the HS Forum under the draft topic.

[observer]

Quasar,

Lot's of interesting questions. I think this board is great for that.

Just guessing but it sounds like you may be in a tough spot. Maybe not happy with your youth association or the community high school. In my opinion here's a problem with the questions you raise. I don't believe the top players, at the top high schools, will leave high school hockey, and the Elite League, to play on these presumed all star teams you envision. Younger kids won’t leave their strong association teams to play on these teams either. Kids want to play at Edina, Minnetonka, Maple Grove, Eagan, etc. and aren't going to leave that opportunity to play on any other team. So, that leaves you with middle tier players as opposed to the top ones. What's happening now are families are open enrolling their player at a new school for the 9th grade, moving their player to a private school or, moving their family all together. I don't see that changing any time soon.

I believe we have the best of both worlds currently. Winter association hockey combined with summer AAA is a great model. At PeeWee and Bantam that's darn near 100 games a year. I believe Minnesota Hockey is on a big time rise because 10 years ago there were only 3-4 AAA teams at any level. Now there are 20 AAA teams at every level. Many more kids skating 10 months out of the year I believe will yield more and better players over the next 4-5-6 years.

[Quasar]

Quasar,

Lot's of interesting questions. I think this board is great for that.

Just guessing but it sounds like you may be in a tough spot. Maybe not happy with your youth association or the community high school. In my opinion here's a problem with the questions you raise. I don't believe the top players, at the top high schools, will leave high school hockey, and the Elite League, to play on these presumed all star teams you envision. Younger kids won’t leave their strong association teams to play on these teams either. Kids want to play at Edina, Minnetonka, Maple Grove, Eagan, etc. and aren't going to leave that opportunity to play on any other team. So, that leaves you with middle tier players as opposed to the top ones. What's happening now are families are open enrolling their player at a new school for the 9th grade, moving their player to a private school or, moving their family all together. I don't see that changing any time soon.

I believe we have the best of both worlds currently. Winter association hockey combined with summer AAA is a great model. At PeeWee and Bantam that's darn near 100 games a year. I believe Minnesota Hockey is on a big time rise because 10 years ago there were only 3-4 AAA teams at any level. Now there are 20 AAA teams at every level. Many more kids skating 10 months out of the year I believe will yield more and better players over the next 4-5-6 years.

Not in a tough spot. My kid played his college hockey in 1982. Just an interested bystander. I've been around hockey for a long time and I see things that don't make a lot of sense to me. I agree that the Summer winter setup is great for everyone until they are 14 years old. Then it all goes away. My opinion is that there should be some way for those kids to continue with their 100 game a year if they want... Most people are like I was when my son was playing youth hockey in the seventies. All I wanted to do was see him through to high school. Now I'm retired with a lot of time on my hands, so I'm just curious more than anything.
I know the kids are primed to play high school hockey. That's how Minnesota hockey gets away with swimming up stream. But it is a fact that at age 15 the only thing available for Minnesota kids is high school or some junior gold program. The days of high level 100 game competition is over unless they move or their parents can afford private hockey prep schools. The District all star teams would let them continue high intensity hockey without having to leave home. Anyway I don't have the answers. I do have a lot of questions. Hopefully some of them will get people thinking...

[observer]

OK. Love the curiosity but I think it's time to let the families with Squirts and PeeWees figure it out. Focus your energy elsewhere. I just don't see anything changing as almost everyone agrees our current model is the best there is. You're talking about a very small group of people that don't agree.

Unless you live in some small rural community there are tons of development options for players 14 and up. Not only do most high schools offer Summer Training Programs (STP) but almost all high level players train together at any of a number of summer training facilities. They skate from 3-5 times a week and are training, on and off ice, with a who's who of top high school, junior and college players.

[Quasar]

OK. Love the curiosity but I think it's time to let the families with Squirts and PeeWees figure it out. Focus your energy elsewhere. I just don't see anything changing as almost everyone agrees our current model is the best there is. You're talking about a very small group of people that don't agree.

Unless you live in some small rural community there are tons of development options for players 14 and up. Not only do most high schools offer Summer Training Programs (STP) but almost all high level players train together at any of a number of summer training facilities. They skate from 3-5 times a week and are training, on and off ice, with a who's who of top high school, junior and college players.

If you think that the STP programs offer any thing like USA AAA Midget you have missed the whole point of this thread. And,I just stated earlier in this thread that it's up to the families of mite and squirts. The problem it that everyone gets so very defensive of what they believe to be the case. I'm only one guy, I can't change anything, I'm not going to up set any ones applecart. I just know that there are no choices for the exceptional player if he isn't interested in high school. For all those that believe Minnesota high school hockey is the ultimate. Good !!!
I believe if you read my posts you will see that I am well versed in the summer possibilities in Minnesota. And you are correct I am talking about a few that don't agree with the current system.
Just because they're few in numbers doesn't mean they have nothing to offer. Thanks for the advice, but I think I'll focus my energy where ever I want.

[observer]

offer any thing like USA AAA Midget

Two kids from Michigan were drafted. 15 from Minnesota. I found that almost impossible with all the AAA Tier 1 clubs in Michigan. I mean really, I just don't even get it. From my perspective, for all the time and money spent in these two states, their system has failed. Several hundred families spending between $20,000 and $30,000 a year and two players were drafted. That's amazing. So much for the AAA Midget development model.

[Quasar]

offer any thing like USA AAA Midget

Two kids from Michigan were drafted. 15 from Minnesota. I found that almost impossible with all the AAA Tier 1 clubs in Michigan. I mean really, I just don't even get it. From my perspective, for all the time and money spent in these two states, their system has failed. Several hundred families spending between $20,000 and $30,000 a year and two players were drafted. That's amazing. So much for the AAA Midget development model.

That's Michigan, this is Minnesota. All I am saying is with our rich history, and the hockey knowledge in Minnesita hockey, we should be able to do better.