Tier hockey

[JSR]

I love how there are people who want to price the sport of hockey out of reach for all but the select few families who can afford it.

People think it's bad now with association fees, summer hockey fees, skill camp fees, skating camp fees, etc. Just wait until the full ticket price of Tier 1 AAA Bantam or Midget hockey comes knocking. $10k, $15k a year for starters. Then keep in mind there is Tier 1 AAA at the Squirt and PeeWee level for those who are truly serious ($$$) about their kid's hockey career.

Hockey families in other parts of the country ask the question "what path is the right one to take if my kid wants to play college hockey?" The response usually starts out like this: "Well, unless you live in Minnesota, your kid is going to need to play U-18 AAA as a 17 year old then he'll need to catch on with a junior team. USHL is the best option, but even in the NAHL or the EJHL a kid can get noticed. Oh, and you don't wan to be playing Midgets as an 18 yr old because these junior programs are looking at the younger kids. Either way, your kid is going to need to leave home and live with a host family when they turn 15 if you want them to have the proper development."

Sounds like a great future. I think MN Hockey should embrace this model of sending your kids off to live with strangers and paying through the nose to do so. That would surely help to grow the game. Every association should put on their recruiting material what the future holds in this sport if you want your kid to go anywhere if they have any talent. They could market how many kids their association developed to the point of leaving and playing somewhere else when they became teenagers. The hallmark of a great association. That would surely result in a record number of parents signing there kids up to play hockey.

I think that is an extremist view honestly. WI has three Tier ! AAA programs and our participation in association hockey and high school hockey continues to grow. In fact due to the advent of Team WI for before and after we have droves of high end talented kids coming back to high school away from Tier 1 Midget programs. (TW of course plays in the MN Elite League before seasona nd participates in national tourneys after the high school season). I gues smy point being is why do you think adding say, 4 or 5 Tier 1 AAA programs throughout the state of MN (maybe 3 in the cities, 1 in Duluth and one over int he western part of the state near the Dakotas where ND kids could play too) would ruin association and high school hockey. I think it's an overboard view to think it would completely ruin the model. Just put in place a deal that says the number of Tier 1 programs cannot excede .01 of USA Hockey members in the state or whatever. Ie I think MN has like 50,000 registered members so .01% would be five programs, and a rule that says you can only field one team per age level within each program so a Tier 1 program can only have 1 2000 team and 1 2001 team etc... etc... Our WAHA bylaws have those things in them so the Tier 1 teams can't just become a monoopoly. You can have Tier 1 and control it too you know is my point. The reality is here in WI most (not all but most) of our very best HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS did play some level of Tier 1 hockey at some point growing up, be it one or multiple seasons. WI is not MN and personally I love MN an dit's model for hockey but I don't think adding a few Tier 1 teams would ruin anything and it just might be an avenue for a the one percenters.... Just a thought form an outsider

[karl(east)]

Karl, I'm not sure I follow all your post. Shattuck's teams are registered with USA Hockey and they are coded Tier I. They are the only Tier I team for the Minnesota District and automatically qualify for Nationals as a result. (That's my understanding.)

Right, but I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that they are not registered with Minnesota Hockey. That's how they get around the opposition to Tier 1.

[MrBoDangles]

I love how there are people who want to price the sport of hockey out of reach for all but the select few families who can afford it.

People think it's bad now with association fees, summer hockey fees, skill camp fees, skating camp fees, etc. Just wait until the full ticket price of Tier 1 AAA Bantam or Midget hockey comes knocking. $10k, $15k a year for starters. Then keep in mind there is Tier 1 AAA at the Squirt and PeeWee level for those who are truly serious ($$$) about their kid's hockey career.

Hockey families in other parts of the country ask the question "what path is the right one to take if my kid wants to play college hockey?" The response usually starts out like this: "Well, unless you live in Minnesota, your kid is going to need to play U-18 AAA as a 17 year old then he'll need to catch on with a junior team. USHL is the best option, but even in the NAHL or the EJHL a kid can get noticed. Oh, and you don't wan to be playing Midgets as an 18 yr old because these junior programs are looking at the younger kids. Either way, your kid is going to need to leave home and live with a host family when they turn 15 if you want them to have the proper development."

Sounds like a great future. I think MN Hockey should embrace this model of sending your kids off to live with strangers and paying through the nose to do so. That would surely help to grow the game. Every association should put on their recruiting material what the future holds in this sport if you want your kid to go anywhere if they have any talent. They could market how many kids their association developed to the point of leaving and playing somewhere else when they became teenagers. The hallmark of a great association. That would surely result in a record number of parents signing there kids up to play hockey.

I think that is an extremist view honestly. WI has three Tier ! AAA programs and our participation in association hockey and high school hockey continues to grow. In fact due to the advent of Team WI for before and after we have droves of high end talented kids coming back to high school away from Tier 1 Midget programs. (TW of course plays in the MN Elite League before seasona nd participates in national tourneys after the high school season). I gues smy point being is why do you think adding say, 4 or 5 Tier 1 AAA programs throughout the state of MN (maybe 3 in the cities, 1 in Duluth and one over int he western part of the state near the Dakotas where ND kids could play too) would ruin association and high school hockey. I think it's an overboard view to think it would completely ruin the model. Just put in place a deal that says the number of Tier 1 programs cannot excede .01 of USA Hockey members in the state or whatever. Ie I think MN has like 50,000 registered members so .01% would be five programs, and a rule that says you can only field one team per age level within each program so a Tier 1 program can only have 1 2000 team and 1 2001 team etc... etc... Our WAHA bylaws have those things in them so the Tier 1 teams can't just become a monoopoly. You can have Tier 1 and control it too you know is my point. The reality is here in WI most (not all but most) of our very best HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS did play some level of Tier 1 hockey at some point growing up, be it one or multiple seasons. WI is not MN and personally I love MN an dit's model for hockey but I don't think adding a few Tier 1 teams would ruin anything and it just might be an avenue for a the one percenters.... Just a thought form an outsider

Great post!

* I'm in no way saying that Minnesota needs tier 1, I'm saying that Minnesota NEEDS to keep up with tier 1. Keep the games going(private?) before and after the season to match a tier 1/SSM type schedule.

I read recently that Wisconsin had three of the top twelve(in 2011 or 12} American born scorers in the NHL. Let me guess the schedule they played...?..

[SCBlueLiner]

You point to Team WI as a reason why droves of kids are coming back to high school away from Tier 1 Midget. I offered the suggestion of having district all star teams pre and post the association/HS season as an alternative to Tier 1 hockey in MN. I think MN could have its cake and eat it too, as opposed to the highly expensive and narrow focus of Tier 1 AAA hockey and still maintain the integrity of both association and HS hockey.

When I think about it, USAH is so hypocritical. They preach about growing the game, increasing the numbers, grassroots hockey programs, etc, yet they sanction Tier 1 hockey for ages below Juniors. The guy who put on my Level 3 last weekend mentioned some of these teams already have at least 1 or 2 tournaments under their belt on the season. I asked why USAH allows it to happen, they could stop it if they refused to sanction it and set up rules on the season length, game # limit, etc. He said they could but USAH doesn't have the (nuggets) to stop them.

[Snap Happy]

I love how there are people who want to price the sport of hockey out of reach for all but the select few families who can afford it.

People think it's bad now with association fees, summer hockey fees, skill camp fees, skating camp fees, etc. Just wait until the full ticket price of Tier 1 AAA Bantam or Midget hockey comes knocking. $10k, $15k a year for starters. Then keep in mind there is Tier 1 AAA at the Squirt and PeeWee level for those who are truly serious ($$$) about their kid's hockey career.

Hockey families in other parts of the country ask the question "what path is the right one to take if my kid wants to play college hockey?" The response usually starts out like this: "Well, unless you live in Minnesota, your kid is going to need to play U-18 AAA as a 17 year old then he'll need to catch on with a junior team. USHL is the best option, but even in the NAHL or the EJHL a kid can get noticed. Oh, and you don't wan to be playing Midgets as an 18 yr old because these junior programs are looking at the younger kids. Either way, your kid is going to need to leave home and live with a host family when they turn 15 if you want them to have the proper development."

Sounds like a great future. I think MN Hockey should embrace this model of sending your kids off to live with strangers and paying through the nose to do so. That would surely help to grow the game. Every association should put on their recruiting material what the future holds in this sport if you want your kid to go anywhere if they have any talent. They could market how many kids their association developed to the point of leaving and playing somewhere else when they became teenagers. The hallmark of a great association. That would surely result in a record number of parents signing there kids up to play hockey.

I think that is an extremist view honestly. WI has three Tier ! AAA programs and our participation in association hockey and high school hockey continues to grow. In fact due to the advent of Team WI for before and after we have droves of high end talented kids coming back to high school away from Tier 1 Midget programs. (TW of course plays in the MN Elite League before seasona nd participates in national tourneys after the high school season). I gues smy point being is why do you think adding say, 4 or 5 Tier 1 AAA programs throughout the state of MN (maybe 3 in the cities, 1 in Duluth and one over int he western part of the state near the Dakotas where ND kids could play too) would ruin association and high school hockey. I think it's an overboard view to think it would completely ruin the model. Just put in place a deal that says the number of Tier 1 programs cannot excede .01 of USA Hockey members in the state or whatever. Ie I think MN has like 50,000 registered members so .01% would be five programs, and a rule that says you can only field one team per age level within each program so a Tier 1 program can only have 1 2000 team and 1 2001 team etc... etc... Our WAHA bylaws have those things in them so the Tier 1 teams can't just become a monoopoly. You can have Tier 1 and control it too you know is my point. The reality is here in WI most (not all but most) of our very best HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS did play some level of Tier 1 hockey at some point growing up, be it one or multiple seasons. WI is not MN and personally I love MN an dit's model for hockey but I don't think adding a few Tier 1 teams would ruin anything and it just might be an avenue for a the one percenters.... Just a thought form an outsider

Great post!

* I'm in no way saying that Minnesota needs tier 1, I'm saying that Minnesota NEEDS to keep up with tier 1. Keep the games going(private?) before and after the season to match a tier 1/SSM type schedule.

I read recently that Wisconsin had three of the top twelve(in 2011 or 12} American born scorers in the NHL. Let me guess the schedule they played...?..

You need to go back and read some previous replies to your points -- and by the way you've come a long way in your opinion on Tier 1 for MN. I remember the Bo of old saying we needed Tier 1 (opportunity) on many occasions.

[MrBoDangles]

I think that is an extremist view honestly. WI has three Tier ! AAA programs and our participation in association hockey and high school hockey continues to grow. In fact due to the advent of Team WI for before and after we have droves of high end talented kids coming back to high school away from Tier 1 Midget programs. (TW of course plays in the MN Elite League before seasona nd participates in national tourneys after the high school season). I gues smy point being is why do you think adding say, 4 or 5 Tier 1 AAA programs throughout the state of MN (maybe 3 in the cities, 1 in Duluth and one over int he western part of the state near the Dakotas where ND kids could play too) would ruin association and high school hockey. I think it's an overboard view to think it would completely ruin the model. Just put in place a deal that says the number of Tier 1 programs cannot excede .01 of USA Hockey members in the state or whatever. Ie I think MN has like 50,000 registered members so .01% would be five programs, and a rule that says you can only field one team per age level within each program so a Tier 1 program can only have 1 2000 team and 1 2001 team etc... etc... Our WAHA bylaws have those things in them so the Tier 1 teams can't just become a monoopoly. You can have Tier 1 and control it too you know is my point. The reality is here in WI most (not all but most) of our very best HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS did play some level of Tier 1 hockey at some point growing up, be it one or multiple seasons. WI is not MN and personally I love MN an dit's model for hockey but I don't think adding a few Tier 1 teams would ruin anything and it just might be an avenue for a the one percenters.... Just a thought form an outsider

Great post!

* I'm in no way saying that Minnesota needs tier 1, I'm saying that Minnesota NEEDS to keep up with tier 1. Keep the games going(private?) before and after the season to match a tier 1/SSM type schedule.

I read recently that Wisconsin had three of the top twelve(in 2011 or 12} American born scorers in the NHL. Let me guess the schedule they played...?..

You need to go back and read some previous replies to your points -- and by the way you've come a long way in your opinion on Tier 1 for MN. I remember the Bo of old saying we needed Tier 1 (opportunity) on many occasions.

No, I've said that they should allow tier 1, if they continue to sweep the talented players from small associations under the rug.

Pooled district A teams was my answer for their broom.

[Snap Happy]

Great post!

* I'm in no way saying that Minnesota needs tier 1, I'm saying that Minnesota NEEDS to keep up with tier 1. Keep the games going(private?) before and after the season to match a tier 1/SSM type schedule.

I read recently that Wisconsin had three of the top twelve(in 2011 or 12} American born scorers in the NHL. Let me guess the schedule they played...?..

You need to go back and read some previous replies to your points -- and by the way you've come a long way in your opinion on Tier 1 for MN. I remember the Bo of old saying we needed Tier 1 (opportunity) on many occasions.

No, I've said that they should allow tier 1, if they continue to sweep the talented players from small associations under the rug.

Pooled district A teams was my answer for their broom.

Well.. your response is less emphatic than replies of the past. Perhaps you've healed a bit since your personal youth hockey experience.

Pooled district teams that play each other sounds like a decent idea. Or if it really is just a matter of the "amount of games" they're playing (equating to more exposure to the game and touches on the puck) -- then why not just be a proponent of playing more 3x3, it's a lot cheaper. And then we keep the talent in house and it continues to feed a great tradition. Besides, no one really knows what the impact will be if tier 1 is allowed into MN during the winter (it could possibly ruin a good thing). And most everyone knows that 3x3 is the best way to develop scoring touch.

[MrBoDangles]

You need to go back and read some previous replies to your points -- and by the way you've come a long way in your opinion on Tier 1 for MN. I remember the Bo of old saying we needed Tier 1 (opportunity) on many occasions.

No, I've said that they should allow tier 1, if they continue to sweep the talented players from small associations under the rug.

Pooled district A teams was my answer for their broom.

Well.. your response is less emphatic than replies of the past. Perhaps you've healed a bit since your personal youth hockey experience.

Pooled district teams that play each other sounds like a decent idea. Or if it really is just a matter of the "amount of games" they're playing (equating to more exposure to the game and touches on the puck) -- then why not just be a proponent of playing more 3x3, it's a lot cheaper. And then we keep the talent in house and it continues to feed a great tradition. Besides, no one really knows what the impact will be if tier 1 is allowed into MN during the winter (it could possibly ruin a good thing). And most everyone knows that 3x3 is the best way to develop scoring touch.

Bring up some past responses.

ME: "MNH should allow tier 1 then if a very talented player is only offered B-1 in his association, when considering that District 10 doesn't allow B-1 kids to try out for the Advanced program". This type of stuff must have seemed "emphatic" to you?? Please give me examples...


3 on 3 is great, but developing a scoring touch by reading the movement of a game on full ice is a totally different entity. Both are great..

2-3 games a week for a month before and after against like talent would help.

[JSR]

You point to Team WI as a reason why droves of kids are coming back to high school away from Tier 1 Midget. I offered the suggestion of having district all star teams pre and post the association/HS season as an alternative to Tier 1 hockey in MN. I think MN could have its cake and eat it too, as opposed to the highly expensive and narrow focus of Tier 1 AAA hockey and still maintain the integrity of both association and HS hockey.

When I think about it, USAH is so hypocritical. They preach about growing the game, increasing the numbers, grassroots hockey programs, etc, yet they sanction Tier 1 hockey for ages below Juniors. The guy who put on my Level 3 last weekend mentioned some of these teams already have at least 1 or 2 tournaments under their belt on the season. I asked why USAH allows it to happen, they could stop it if they refused to sanction it and set up rules on the season length, game # limit, etc. He said they could but USAH doesn't have the (nuggets) to stop them.

Yes I did and it's great for high school age kids. But I also mentioned that the overwhelming majority of those kids played year round Tier 1 AAA hockey during their Pee Wee and Batnam years (and some even squirt years, though I don't think that young is necessary myself). Skating Tier 1 during your Pee Wee and Bantam years, atleast down here, is a humungous difference maker. Then if good enough moving on to play TW and then high school varsity as freshman and sophmores for those talented players aloows huge growth (see Keegan Ford....). Some then stay and continue with TW and high school all the way through and get scholarhsips that way like Tim Davison of Green Bay Notre Dame, while others move on and play in the USHL like Keegan Ford during their junior and/or senior years but I don't think that is much different than in MN..... And we do field MM and mm Tier 1 winter teams down here as well but alot fo the kids on those teams do tend to be from cities with no high school hockey, or poor high school programs for their talent level or out of state kids, again not all but in my estimation alot as a good share of the "best players" are playing for high school and TW. So again, why owuld year round Tier 1 ruin what MN has, honestly I think it might enhance it slightly without making much dent on the overall landscape.

[IHEA]

You point to Team WI as a reason why droves of kids are coming back to high school away from Tier 1 Midget. I offered the suggestion of having district all star teams pre and post the association/HS season as an alternative to Tier 1 hockey in MN. I think MN could have its cake and eat it too, as opposed to the highly expensive and narrow focus of Tier 1 AAA hockey and still maintain the integrity of both association and HS hockey.

When I think about it, USAH is so hypocritical. They preach about growing the game, increasing the numbers, grassroots hockey programs, etc, yet they sanction Tier 1 hockey for ages below Juniors. The guy who put on my Level 3 last weekend mentioned some of these teams already have at least 1 or 2 tournaments under their belt on the season. I asked why USAH allows it to happen, they could stop it if they refused to sanction it and set up rules on the season length, game # limit, etc. He said they could but USAH doesn't have the (nuggets) to stop them.

JSR's example of WI and how the Tier 1 system actually provides opportunities for players before highschool and during highschool for those with poor programs works really well. It could solve a lot of issues here in MN as well and will not harm the MN hockey system if it is limited in number of teams like in WI.

And why is USAH hypocritical? Canada starts in September also. You think North America should shorten the season to match Minnesota. The rest of the US and Canada plays Sep to Feb and this will not change. Grass roots does not equate to the MN system. The length of the season will never be changed to the MN system. MN is kind of like Canada when you look at participation but Canada has a longer season and has Tier 1 and Tier 11 hockey. MN only has Tier 11. Tell the Canadians they don't have grass roots hockey and that their system is flawed and you will be laughed out of the room. The rest of the world is not looking at MN Hockey as the leader of hockey. Get over yourself and your limited knowledge of just what Tier 1 hockey is and what opportunities it provides in youth hockey. JSR has produced a good set of info that shows Tier 1 can coexist very well with the current system similar to what a lot of people have proposed on various threads.

I have yet to read any good argument against a "limited team" Tier 1 system - a system that exists in every hockey state in the country. Will not hurt the MN hockey model one bit.

[O-townClown]

I love how there are people who want to price the sport of hockey out of reach for all but the select few families who can afford it.

People think it's bad now with association fees, summer hockey fees, skill camp fees, skating camp fees, etc. Just wait until the full ticket price of Tier 1 AAA Bantam or Midget hockey comes knocking. $10k, $15k a year for starters. Then keep in mind there is Tier 1 AAA at the Squirt and PeeWee level for those who are truly serious ($$$) about their kid's hockey career.

Hockey families in other parts of the country ask the question "what path is the right one to take if my kid wants to play college hockey?" The response usually starts out like this: "Well, unless you live in Minnesota, your kid is going to need to play U-18 AAA as a 17 year old then he'll need to catch on with a junior team. USHL is the best option, but even in the NAHL or the EJHL a kid can get noticed. Oh, and you don't wan to be playing Midgets as an 18 yr old because these junior programs are looking at the younger kids. Either way, your kid is going to need to leave home and live with a host family when they turn 15 if you want them to have the proper development."

Sounds like a great future. I think MN Hockey should embrace this model of sending your kids off to live with strangers and paying through the nose to do so. That would surely help to grow the game. Every association should put on their recruiting material what the future holds in this sport if you want your kid to go anywhere if they have any talent. They could market how many kids their association developed to the point of leaving and playing somewhere else when they became teenagers. The hallmark of a great association. That would surely result in a record number of parents signing there kids up to play hockey.

Great post.

[O-townClown]

Kyle Oksposo- Played tier 1 at SSM.
Blake Wheeler- left HS early for USHL. (tier 1 Jrs)
Dustin Byfuglien- left Roseau to play for the tier 1 Chicago Mission.
Derek Stepan- tier 1 at SSM. also youth tier 1?
David Backes- supplemented his jr and sr year with USHL(TIER 1 JRS) games.
Zach Parise- tier 1 at SSM
"TJ OSHIE"- he led all Minnesota HS scorers his sr(?) year. The kicker is that he played tier 1 in Washington state through his youth.

I'll recoil and listen again.

''

Okposo - age 14 is the Tier I Bantam year at S-SM
Wheeler - left Breck at age 18
Byfuglien - was 16 I think when he left to play U18 Tier I hockey, and he may not have left if he was academically eligible
Stepan - I thought he played in Hastings
Backes - played youth and HS in Minnesota through graduation
Parise - dad took job at S-SM when he was about 10 and he trained a lot
Oshie - youth hockey in Seattle where serious hockey was found only at Tier I level

I am conducting a study on player development in our area and someone old and wise told me, "what you'll find is that kids played on the best team that was available to them. It didn't matter if it was Tier I or Tier II." There's a lot of truth to that.

At what age are we talking? I'm under a great deal of pressure from my 10-year-old to play on a Tier I team based out of state. So I will say things like I'm mostly against Tier I for youth. I'm speaking from the perspective of someone that lives in the Southeast. I'd feel differently if we lived in Detroit.

You, on the other hand, are obviously referring to much older ages. Some of the kids you mentioned played Minnesota HS hockey through age 17 or even 18! Tier I Junior hockey (USHL) is NOT the same as Tier I Youth. Beeeeeg difference. (I assume you know this...one of them YOU DON'T PAY!)

[O-townClown]

Quasar, what are the four Tier I Midget teams taking the ice next year?

[O-townClown]

Karl:

I don't know for sure. This is from the Annual Guide. I am under the impression that Shattuck is the only team coded Tier I for District "11" below.

How else would Shattuck get in? No other District is giving them their spot.

**

12-Team Format
AMERICAN NATIONAL
CONFERENCE CONFERENCE
Year USA Olympic NHL Liberty
2012 2,5,10 3,7,8 9,11,12 1,4,6
2013 3,4,9 2,6,12 1,8,10 5,7,11
2014 5,6,8 1,3,7 2,9,11 4,10,12

Districts for a 12-Team Format-Youth Tier I, Tier II, Girls/Women
1. New England 7. Pacific
2. New York 8. Rocky Mountain
3. Mid-American 9. Atlantic
4. Michigan 10. Southeastern
5. Massachusetts 11. Minnesota/Northern Plains
6. Central 12. Host

[Quasar]

Quasar, what are the four Tier I Midget teams taking the ice next year?

Relax .. I'm talking about summer programs.. Shattuck, Blades, Dawgs and Exceed are the ones I've seen on the web. Know of another that I'm not at liberty to talk about as they have not yet announced.

The problem is lot of kids leaving Bantams with no where to go.
The high school programs cannot handle the numbers of talented kids that are being produced by the summer AAA programs.

I think what will happen is that talented kids will consider summer hockey more important than winter, and they will leave for juniors as soon as they can.. And that's really too bad. Minnesota is playing good hockey at the A youth levels. The 25 game high school schedule just slows everything down.

As far as all the BS about the high cost of tier 1 hockey. apples and oranges.!! We play high level AAA hockey all summer without ever leaving the state..

It's just a matter of time. Too many good players.... Too few berths..

Just my opinion.....

[O-townClown]

Quasar, a matter of time before what? Tier I hockey? My question is the same as a year ago. When you said, "it's coming." I won't disagree, but walk me through it. Minnesota Hockey sanctions how many teams for what season and how do they arrive at that?

I don't think it will happen any time soon.

Summer hockey isn't regulated in the same fashion. Blades have some Fall games before HS. I don't know how they are coded. (I believe they are USA Hockey registered.) CyberSport allows Tier I, Tier II, Rec, and Tournament where I live. I don't believe "Tournament" exists outside our District. Are they coded "Tier I" but not national-eligible?

[MrBoDangles]

Kyle Oksposo- Played tier 1 at SSM.
Blake Wheeler- left HS early for USHL. (tier 1 Jrs)
Dustin Byfuglien- left Roseau to play for the tier 1 Chicago Mission.
Derek Stepan- tier 1 at SSM. also youth tier 1?
David Backes- supplemented his jr and sr year with USHL(TIER 1 JRS) games.
Zach Parise- tier 1 at SSM
"TJ OSHIE"- he led all Minnesota HS scorers his sr(?) year. The kicker is that he played tier 1 in Washington state through his youth.

I'll recoil and listen again.

''

Okposo - age 14 is the Tier I Bantam year at S-SM
Wheeler - left Breck at age 18
Byfuglien - was 16 I think when he left to play U18 Tier I hockey, and he may not have left if he was academically eligible
Stepan - I thought he played in Hastings
Backes - played youth and HS in Minnesota through graduation
Parise - dad took job at S-SM when he was about 10 and he trained a lot
Oshie - youth hockey in Seattle where serious hockey was found only at Tier I level

I am conducting a study on player development in our area and someone old and wise told me, "what you'll find is that kids played on the best team that was available to them. It didn't matter if it was Tier I or Tier II." There's a lot of truth to that.

At what age are we talking? I'm under a great deal of pressure from my 10-year-old to play on a Tier I team based out of state. So I will say things like I'm mostly against Tier I for youth. I'm speaking from the perspective of someone that lives in the Southeast. I'd feel differently if we lived in Detroit.

You, on the other hand, are obviously referring to much older ages. Some of the kids you mentioned played Minnesota HS hockey through age 17 or even 18! Tier I Junior hockey (USHL) is NOT the same as Tier I Youth. Beeeeeg difference. (I assume you know this...one of them YOU DON'T PAY!)

Development is secondary to cost. This is the only thing we can take from your post.

[Quasar]

Quasar, a matter of time before what? Tier I hockey? My question is the same as a year ago. When you said, "it's coming." I won't disagree, but walk me through it. Minnesota Hockey sanctions how many teams for what season and how do they arrive at that?

I don't think it will happen any time soon.

Summer hockey isn't regulated in the same fashion. Blades have some Fall games before HS. I don't know how they are coded. (I believe they are USA Hockey registered.) CyberSport allows Tier I, Tier II, Rec, and Tournament where I live. I don't believe "Tournament" exists outside our District. Are they coded "Tier I" but not national-eligible?

Hello OTC, Nice to talk to you again....

This is not rocket science. Each year there are more high level players participating during the summer. There is no place for them to play in Minnesota after bantams other than high school.

I believe that the tipping point will come when all the 98's and 99's have to fight for a few high school spots that are already filled.

It's either midget or juniors.... Could be solved easily with district Midget teams . All I am saying is that midgets will start in the summer with a few teams playing each other and attending tournaments.
When the parents of the kids that have been playing summer AAA since mites find out it all ends in Minnesota after bantams, they will change the system. It's like water finding it's own level....

I am just an observer with an opinion Nothing more nothing less

Have a great day Q

[BadgerBob82]

Quasar: Not sure I follow what you're saying? Are you saying the '98's and 99's are somehow the first or largest group of 8 year AAA kids that will having nothing to do when they enter high school? I'm not following you on this one.

[SnowedIn]

2010-2011 Minnesota Players Registered
Total - 54,325
19&Over - 7,730
17-18 - 1,848
15-16 - 3,599
13-14 - 7,094
11-12 - 8,560
9-10 - 8,587
7-8 - 8,407
6&U - 8,500

Approximate #players in One Tier 1 organization (by birthyear):
Squirt Major - 17
Pee Wee Minor - 17
Pee Wee Major - 17
Bantam Minor - 17
Bantam Major - 17
Midget Minor - 20
Midget Major - 20
TOTAL - 125

If Minnesota Hockey Approves 4 teams (North 1, Twin Cities 2, South 1) that's a total of 500 kids from Squirt to Midget Major. Less than 1% of the total registered players in the entire state (like JSR said). MH does not have to add any more teams. It's not like summer AAA hockey where anyone can form one.

Traditionalists and those who like HS better will do that. Other's will tryout for a Tier1 team. That will open up spots on highschool rosters which means more kids can play higher level hockey than before.

No one is holding a gun to anyone's head to do the travel and put out the cost to do Tier 1 but it offers those who want the choice to do it this option. If you choose to you will travel, you will spend more money and you will get to play against some bad teams and great teams from all around north america and for the older players, you will get exposure to a lot of coaches and scouts that watch these games.

Tier 1 will not take over the state because there would be only 4 teams. Michigan has almost the same number of hockey players registered and they have 5 or 6 teams and 99% play Tier 2.

[observer]

I believe that the tipping point will come when all the 98's and 99's have to fight for a few high school spots that are already filled.

I don't get this comment either. Please expand. Most schools would love to have more players, especially those working on their game in the off season. The talent drop at every high school is steep. Remember there are 10 solid AAA teams at every level and like 50 high schools in the metro alone. Several high schools have three teams, varsity, JV and Jr. Gold and some have even more.

If you live in a high school district where it will be tough to earn a varsity spot, and have a high level player, well there's only a few where that might be worrisome. Not tracking with ya.

[JSR]

SnowedIn, great facts and figures. I actually think MN could handle 5 programs and not dilute anything. I'm not saying these places are "exact" but for geography purposes I could see Tier 1 AAA programs specifically hosted in the cities of Duluth, Moorehead or Bjemidji, Blaine, Eden Prairie, and Mankato. I think that would cover the overwhleming majority of the state and likely assuage the ones clamoring for Tier 1 hockey while not doing anything to put a dent in association and high school hockey. I mean limiting it to that number of programs and locating them like that I think could actually accentuate things and elp develop the top top players. The other part would be you'd have 5 high caliber teams right in state to play regulary (plus Schattuck, so 6 I guess), another 3 programs nearby in WI and some in Iowa, relative to what Tier 1 looks like right now the travel would not be bad at all. Play in one tourney and one showcase in Chicago and you'd never leave the midwest while playing a top tier schedule. Just saying the reality of Tier 1 in MN doesn't have to be doom and gloom even from the naysayers point of view

[JSR]

I believe that the tipping point will come when all the 98's and 99's have to fight for a few high school spots that are already filled.

I don't get this comment either. Please expand. Most schools would love to have more players, especially those working on their game in the off season. The talent drop at every high school is steep. Remember there are 10 solid AAA teams at every level and like 50 high schools in the metro alone. Several high schools have three teams, varsity, JV and Jr. Gold and some have even more.

If you live in a high school district where it will be tough to earn a varsity spot, and have a high level player, well there's only a few where that might be worrisome. Not tracking with ya.

I think understand what he is saying. MN has alot of great hockey players, more than anywhere else. You have players, like it or not, that are not making JV teams and sometimes even JR. Gold teams because the talent and depth in their area is so great. Players that honestly would make alot of varsity teams in WI and be what we would consider half way decent players. He's saying Tier 1 hockey opens up additional spots on these teams for those kids to continue playing high level hockey instead of being forced to some association rec style midget team or whatever you call them up there or out of hockey all together. Does it help masses and masses of kids who get cut, nope it won't, but why is it a bad thing if it helps even 1 or 2 in any given high school???

Or how abut this scenario. Kid lives in Bumbleweed, MN. Goes to school with his friends, high school he'll eventually go to has no hockey porgram, town too small, but travels 45+ minutes to play association hockey, turns out the kid is a great player. Keeps playing, plays summer/spring AA hockey, keeps getting better. Goes to middle school with his friends..... keeps playing keeps gettign better. High school comes, choice is go to school where none of his friends go just so he can play high school hockey OR keep going to school with his friends and play Tier 1 AAA mm and MM hockey..... wouldn't that be nice if he had that choice...

[Quasar]

I believe that the tipping point will come when all the 98's and 99's have to fight for a few high school spots that are already filled.

I don't get this comment either. Please expand. Most schools would love to have more players, especially those working on their game in the off season. The talent drop at every high school is steep. Remember there are 10 solid AAA teams at every level and like 50 high schools in the metro alone. Several high schools have three teams, varsity, JV and Jr. Gold and some have even more.

If you live in a high school district where it will be tough to earn a varsity spot, and have a high level player, well there's only a few where that might be worrisome. Not tracking with ya.

Let me try it this way .. I think I read that Minnesota made choice has around 300 kids in their program...

Last year there were 300 high school players out of 4000 that scored 30 points or more..

This is about high level year around players.. Not to worry in two years all the high school teams will have parity, but not enough spaces...

Midget hockey will give the rest a place to play..

Minnesota hockey could declare JR Gold Tier 1 and solve the problem over night..Up thread is a superior post that explains it all. Read it, and look at the numbers ...

[Quasar]

2010-2011 Minnesota Players Registered
Total - 54,325
19&Over - 7,730
17-18 - 1,848
15-16 - 3,599
13-14 - 7,094
11-12 - 8,560
9-10 - 8,587
7-8 - 8,407
6&U - 8,500

Approximate #players in One Tier 1 organization (by birthyear):
Squirt Major - 17
Pee Wee Minor - 17
Pee Wee Major - 17
Bantam Minor - 17
Bantam Major - 17
Midget Minor - 20
Midget Major - 20
TOTAL - 125

If Minnesota Hockey Approves 4 teams (North 1, Twin Cities 2, South 1) that's a total of 500 kids from Squirt to Midget Major. Less than 1% of the total registered players in the entire state (like JSR said). MH does not have to add any more teams. It's not like summer AAA hockey where anyone can form one.

Traditionalists and those who like HS better will do that. Other's will tryout for a Tier1 team. That will open up spots on highschool rosters which means more kids can play higher level hockey than before.

No one is holding a gun to anyone's head to do the travel and put out the cost to do Tier 1 but it offers those who want the choice to do it this option. If you choose to you will travel, you will spend more money and you will get to play against some bad teams and great teams from all around north america and for the older players, you will get exposure to a lot of coaches and scouts that watch these games.

Tier 1 will not take over the state because there would be only 4 teams. Michigan has almost the same number of hockey players registered and they have 5 or 6 teams and 99% play Tier 2.

This is an Excellent post that says it all.. 7,000 13 and 14 year old players. 4,000 High School Spots