Brainerd Hockey on Life Support.....

[packerboy]

I dont pretend to know where all the money is going Knowlzee but if money is tight, I dont see a problem with participants paying for sports programs.

In fact, I dont see a problem with it when money isn't tight.

I would rather see our schools hire and retain good teachers than pay for sports participation.

I think sports for HS age kids is vital. But I dont think that the HS has to be the one to provide the programs nor to pay for them.

We could have great HS age hockey without the schools.

In Baseball we already have it with VFW/Mickey Mantle/ Legion and Babe Ruth. all summer. We could do the same with other sports.

Id rather see people start to get used for paying for these activities than to see them being used as a political football.

[Can't Never Tried]

Nothing is wrong with "pay for play",.....in fact the overwhelming majority of HS athletes (actually their parents) have been doing it since age 5 in youth sports. And it is what Brainerd will do. They will raise the money, or each pay their own way. If sports are dropped, the athletes will go to a different school. The parents will not risk "the call", and the apprehension is understandable. You only have one chance to play HS sports, that's it.

The only problem with "pay for play" is that it is a treatment of the problem, but not a treatment (or even address of) the CAUSE of the problem. The cause, which needs to be addressed (and solved) is where is our money going in public education? We are continually spending more and more, and receiving less and less. We do not seem to want to admit this issue, much less even attempt a solution. We just keep pouring money at it.

Well Knowlzee, I know a lot goes to build fancy new buildings that sit empty 25% of the time.

I'll say this if they cut 12-16 sports @ Brainerd my guess is Neighboring schools are going to see a large increase in class size, I kind of agree with the threat theory, they seriously must have looked at what would happen if they did this, and the effect on the surrounding area schools, wouldn't ya think??

The neighboring schools all immediately closed open enrollment for that very reason. There is no threat involved, this is reality. The district already informed 62 teachers of their dismissal for next year.

Ouch!..Maybe it's elliott and that MN hockey bunch trying to get the Jr. Gold #'s up....

[elliott70]

I dont pretend to know where all the money is going Knowlzee but if money is tight, I dont see a problem with participants paying for sports programs.

In fact, I dont see a problem with it when money isn't tight.

I would rather see our schools hire and retain good teachers than pay for sports participation.

I think sports for HS age kids is vital. But I dont think that the HS has to be the one to provide the programs nor to pay for them.

We could have great HS age hockey without the schools.

In Baseball we already have it with VFW/Mickey Mantle/ Legion and Babe Ruth. all summer. We could do the same with other sports.

Id rather see people start to get used for paying for these activities than to see them being used as a political football.

The only problem with the school and or community not supporting sports is that the sports will die. Maybe not quickly, maybe not everywhere, maybe not all sports.

But where I live, there will be some quick deaths. Rural America will suffer again.
If pay for play had been the way, soccer would have been 'still born' in this town. Now we have a strong program.
And are you going to shut down the gyms or put a ticket booth up and charge for open gym?
Just some sports go this way? The private programs are open to everyone? Everyone have the same rights? A governing body? An overseer?

And some people will never support it, but will enjoy the direct or indirect benefits of a sports porgram.

We cannot abolish public schools and expect everyone to set up a Hill-Murray. Public schools are needed. And so are public sports for our children. Those that participate need to pay, but the rest of us need to provide support, also.

Brainerd school board and admin ahve blown it. Brainerd voters blew it.
As did we in Bemidji.
We all need to be more involved.
And those directly involved need to quit thinking in terms of it just being a job. A person does not need a cash reward everytime they turn around.

[elliott70]

Well Knowlzee, I know a lot goes to build fancy new buildings that sit empty 25% of the time.

I'll say this if they cut 12-16 sports @ Brainerd my guess is Neighboring schools are going to see a large increase in class size, I kind of agree with the threat theory, they seriously must have looked at what would happen if they did this, and the effect on the surrounding area schools, wouldn't ya think??

The neighboring schools all immediately closed open enrollment for that very reason. There is no threat involved, this is reality. The district already informed 62 teachers of their dismissal for next year.

Ouch!..Maybe it's elliott and that MN hockey bunch trying to get the Jr. Gold #'s up....

I told an old ND hockey player about 15 years ago. Watch your back, we will have all of hockey in hte future.


I hope I was wrong back then.

Save Our Sports!
SOS!

[packerboy]

elloitt,

1. Sports will not die if schools are not involved. The schools have little or nothing to do with sports until jr high and they flourish and grow.

2. User fees, 'pay for play' etc are here to stay. Pay for open gym?
Why not , it cost 3 bucks to go to open skating.

Sport participation has boomed in this great country of ours and that boom has occurred while the private association has been in place.

Not under any liberal "let government do it" mind set but by those of us (especialy you) who volunteered their time and talent(well, maybe that doesnt apply to you ) and paid their own way.

Private enterprise has made sports for kids what it is today not big government.

I say let the people do it.

I say keep America strong.

I say God Bless America.

[stxnpux]

Nothing is wrong with "pay for play",.....in fact the overwhelming majority of HS athletes (actually their parents) have been doing it since age 5 in youth sports. And it is what Brainerd will do. They will raise the money, or each pay their own way. If sports are dropped, the athletes will go to a different school. The parents will not risk "the call", and the apprehension is understandable. You only have one chance to play HS sports, that's it.

The only problem with "pay for play" is that it is a treatment of the problem, but not a treatment (or even address of) the CAUSE of the problem. The cause, which needs to be addressed (and solved) is where is our money going in public education? We are continually spending more and more, and receiving less and less. We do not seem to want to admit this issue, much less even attempt a solution. We just keep pouring money at it.

Knowlzee, I hate to be the one to break this to you but unfortunately we can start by looking at the same $200K per year stuperintendent who made these ludicrous suggestions! The biggest drain on todays educational system is administration. Just follow the numbers, or the dollars as they say. Teachers want more pay? Get those administration dollars in check and there would be more than enough to go around for everyone!

[Can't Never Tried]

elloitt,

1. Sports will not die if schools are not involved. The schools have little or nothing to do with sports until jr high and they flourish and grow.

2. User fees, 'pay for play' etc are here to stay. Pay for open gym?
Why not , it cost 3 bucks to go to open skating.

Sport participation has boomed in this great country of ours and that boom has occurred while the private association has been in place.

Not under any liberal "let government do it" mind set but by those of us (especialy you) who volunteered their time and talent(well, maybe that doesnt apply to you ) and paid their own way.

Private enterprise has made sports for kids what it is today not big government.

I say let the people do it.

I say keep America strong.

I say God Bless America.

That was funny! .........well unless your elliott I guess.

[elliott70]

elloitt,

1. Sports will not die if schools are not involved. The schools have little or nothing to do with sports until jr high and they flourish and grow.

2. User fees, 'pay for play' etc are here to stay. Pay for open gym?
Why not , it cost 3 bucks to go to open skating.

Sport participation has boomed in this great country of ours and that boom has occurred while the private association has been in place.

Not under any liberal "let government do it" mind set but by those of us (especialy you) who volunteered their time and talent(well, maybe that doesnt apply to you ) and paid their own way.

Private enterprise has made sports for kids what it is today not big government.

I say let the people do it.

I say keep America strong.

I say God Bless America.

You sound like the male Democrat that is running for office,
ALL HAT AND NO SADDLE!

Problem is in little old Littlefork
(Don't give me that sob story how they are just a sbig as say, Cretin.
I once heard that a liberal attorney (they all are) can make some people believe anything, most people believe something, and make us flannel people give them the working end of the 12 guage).
(Dang attorneys, always getting su off the subject.)

In Little Fork (per the name on the sign), unless every taxpayer puts a buck on the table, the 25 boys that run down that short, narrow field will be hanging around the power house. Problem iwth you liberal conservatives is youdon't understand how governemnt CAN work for the good of all of us.

Down with the unions, and watch the jobs go overseas. Sorry PB, our kids need to be supported by all of us.

And you're right, I don't bring a whole hell of a lot of talent to the table,
just an open mind and willingness to do the work most will not. Even if some of those dang kids are catlickers!

[Indian Head]

Pay to play is not an option. Its all sports or nothing. Meaning that the sports that were cut cannot form their own group and raise the funds to put that sport back in action. If that was the case hockey would probably have the easiest time restructuring because their is an amateur assn in place that would take over. Tha sad hing is that the impact will reach further than people think. I am confident that Brainerd will get their sports back. But it also scares me that this may be a model for the rest of the state. This will effect other communties! I am also worried that numbers of athletes competing will drop. Athletes will pay to play , but I doubt they will pay to sit on the sidelines. There have been people that have said the retired can't afford the increased taxes etc. The question I ask is who paid when your kids were in school?

[Stitch Lips]

Not a threat? Do the "decision makers" have athletes,....or students in high school, for that matter? Say the money doesn't get raised,.....do you think the "decision makers" want the legacy of being a part of the group that eliminated many high school sports in Brainerd? I am not a gambler, but the bluff may be worth the call.

Funny you should mention that ... Many of the decision makers have kids in sports but none in hockey. None in hockey. Not in Brainerd.

You may think that this is a bluff here in Brainerd, but I know that the majority of the people who want to save the sports here in Brainerd aren't willing to take that risk.

[IrishStiff]

It's a sad day when they continue to cut things.

I don't blame this on the local schools or teachers. The way we fund schools is simply messed up. There is way too much waste because the decision makers at the State Capitol and to a small extent the Federal govt. have no idea what is truly best for our children. Teachers are held accountable for way more today than when I was in school. We spend millions on tests that really don't show much.

My wife and I have children in the elmentary, middle school, and high school. They are doing way more in school than we ever did. That is a good thing! Most schools are doing very well but their are so many mandated items that need to be met that a ton of money is being spent on meaningless things. We can thank our politicians for that! As long as the govt. keeps throwing money at all the testing you can kiss any extra money away!

We need parents and teachers deciding how to spend the money allotted. Too often their are multiple strings attached to the money that does come into a district. I'm not a union supporter, but they are not to blame for the State and Federal mandates!

[ap4mvp]

It's a sad day when they continue to cut things.

I don't blame this on the local schools or teachers. The way we fund schools is simply messed up. There is way too much waste because the decision makers at the State Capitol and to a small extent the Federal govt. have no idea what is truly best for our children. Teachers are held accountable for way more today than when I was in school. We spend millions on tests that really don't show much.

The people who should be really at fault is the local school board. They spend all that money on a new middle school and new athletic fields around it while other school buildings in the community are basically taking up space and not being used properly. Yet your blaming the people at the State Capitol, did they want the new school built? The state and federal government are not to blame here, the Brainerd school board is. I hope this November when some of the members come up for re-election there shown the door. When Little Falls was in budget problems the school board was ran by idiots and they were all eventually ran out off office and the problem was fixed. People elected to the school board should be highly qualified and not people just looking for something to do. Example Little Falls when they elected a bunch of rich people's wives and they had no clue what they were doing and they ran the school system into the ground.

[.Marshall]

Im expecting a Surge in Enrollment in Little Falls the next couple years if all that is expected to happen actually happens... But i do wonder if they do actually shut down the hockey program will the seniors be able to open enroll to another school without stting out a season?

[Can't Never Tried]

It's a sad day when they continue to cut things.

I don't blame this on the local schools or teachers. The way we fund schools is simply messed up. There is way too much waste because the decision makers at the State Capitol and to a small extent the Federal govt. have no idea what is truly best for our children. Teachers are held accountable for way more today than when I was in school. We spend millions on tests that really don't show much.

The people who should be really at fault is the local school board. They spend all that money on a new middle school and new athletic fields around it while other school buildings in the community are basically taking up space and not being used properly. Yet your blaming the people at the State Capitol, did they want the new school built? The state and federal government are not to blame here, the Brainerd school board is. I hope this November when some of the members come up for re-election there shown the door. When Little Falls was in budget problems the school board was ran by idiots and they were all eventually ran out off office and the problem was fixed. People elected to the school board should be highly qualified and not people just looking for something to do. Example Little Falls when they elected a bunch of rich people's wives and they had no clue what they were doing and they ran the school system into the ground.

Gotta ask yourself this, why would they build athletic fields, and then cut sports? Nice logic!

[darkdemon]

The people who should be really at fault is the local school board. They spend all that money on a new middle school and new athletic fields around it while other school buildings in the community are basically taking up space and not being used properly. Yet your blaming the people at the State Capitol, did they want the new school built? The state and federal government are not to blame here, the Brainerd school board is. I hope this November when some of the members come up for re-election there shown the door. When Little Falls was in budget problems the school board was ran by idiots and they were all eventually ran out off office and the problem was fixed. People elected to the school board should be highly qualified and not people just looking for something to do. Example Little Falls when they elected a bunch of rich people's wives and they had no clue what they were doing and they ran the school system into the ground.

I wouldn't blame the LF school board for LF's problems a few years back its the people of the district. Greed they don't want to pay more property tax. How many people hate property tax more than any other tax(income and sales). Property tax is paid by a person writing a check. Ask anyone how much their property tax is they will know. But ask them how much income tax they paid last year, some will know but most won't. Then ask how much sales tax they paid last year they won't have a clue and if you do you need to find a new hobby. Property tax is visible that is the biggest obstacle when attempting to pass a referendum.

[CityHockey11]

The people who should be really at fault is the local school board. They spend all that money on a new middle school and new athletic fields around it while other school buildings in the community are basically taking up space and not being used properly. Yet your blaming the people at the State Capitol, did they want the new school built? The state and federal government are not to blame here, the Brainerd school board is. I hope this November when some of the members come up for re-election there shown the door. When Little Falls was in budget problems the school board was ran by idiots and they were all eventually ran out off office and the problem was fixed. People elected to the school board should be highly qualified and not people just looking for something to do. Example Little Falls when they elected a bunch of rich people's wives and they had no clue what they were doing and they ran the school system into the ground.

Which is why it would be better if income taxes were paid the same way as property taxes so people would realize how over taxed they were....but i'm on a hockey board right???
I wouldn't blame the LF school board for LF's problems a few years back its the people of the district. Greed they don't want to pay more property tax. How many people hate property tax more than any other tax(income and sales). Property tax is paid by a person writing a check. Ask anyone how much their property tax is they will know. But ask them how much income tax they paid last year, some will know but most won't. Then ask how much sales tax they paid last year they won't have a clue and if you do you need to find a new hobby. Property tax is visible that is the biggest obstacle when attempting to pass a referendum.

[STC18]

It's shocking to hear, it would be weird for a school like Brainerd not to have a hockey program. Hopefully they can pull through to field a team again next season.

[PASTRAPIDSFAN]

What a shock hope they can find a way.

[ap4mvp]

The people who should be really at fault is the local school board. They spend all that money on a new middle school and new athletic fields around it while other school buildings in the community are basically taking up space and not being used properly. Yet your blaming the people at the State Capitol, did they want the new school built? The state and federal government are not to blame here, the Brainerd school board is. I hope this November when some of the members come up for re-election there shown the door. When Little Falls was in budget problems the school board was ran by idiots and they were all eventually ran out off office and the problem was fixed. People elected to the school board should be highly qualified and not people just looking for something to do. Example Little Falls when they elected a bunch of rich people's wives and they had no clue what they were doing and they ran the school system into the ground.

I wouldn't blame the LF school board for LF's problems a few years back its the people of the district.

I disagree demon, while you were at that private school the LF school board bought all them lap top computers for their students, along with other wasteful spending that could have been prevented.

[Stitch Lips]

Not a threat? Do the "decision makers" have athletes,....or students in high school, for that matter? Say the money doesn't get raised,.....do you think the "decision makers" want the legacy of being a part of the group that eliminated many high school sports in Brainerd? I am not a gambler, but the bluff may be worth the call.

Not an "empty threat"

[IrishStiff]

It still comes down to suits at the capitol level. They have NO IDEA what is best for kids.

[BIAFP]

The people who should be really at fault is the local school board. They spend all that money on a new middle school and new athletic fields around it while other school buildings in the community are basically taking up space and not being used properly. Yet your blaming the people at the State Capitol, did they want the new school built? The state and federal government are not to blame here, the Brainerd school board is. I hope this November when some of the members come up for re-election there shown the door. When Little Falls was in budget problems the school board was ran by idiots and they were all eventually ran out off office and the problem was fixed. People elected to the school board should be highly qualified and not people just looking for something to do. Example Little Falls when they elected a bunch of rich people's wives and they had no clue what they were doing and they ran the school system into the ground.

The new middle school was built with BONDING and has no impact on the school districts budget deficit. The failed LEVY referendum resulted in the necessary cuts to balance the budget. Bonds are for buildings and Levies are for learning. The above ignorance was the very reason for the failed referendum.

[IrishStiff]

The people who should be really at fault is the local school board. They spend all that money on a new middle school and new athletic fields around it while other school buildings in the community are basically taking up space and not being used properly. Yet your blaming the people at the State Capitol, did they want the new school built? The state and federal government are not to blame here, the Brainerd school board is. I hope this November when some of the members come up for re-election there shown the door. When Little Falls was in budget problems the school board was ran by idiots and they were all eventually ran out off office and the problem was fixed. People elected to the school board should be highly qualified and not people just looking for something to do. Example Little Falls when they elected a bunch of rich people's wives and they had no clue what they were doing and they ran the school system into the ground.

The new middle school was built with BONDING and has no impact on the school districts budget deficit. The failed LEVY referendum resulted in the necessary cuts to balance the budget. Bonds are for buildings and Levies are for learning. The above ignorance was the very reason for the failed referendum.

So true! The average voter is tremendously ignorant when it comes to how we fund schools. Way too many people just believe the talking points from both sides.

[Silent But Deadly]

The people who should be really at fault is the local school board. They spend all that money on a new middle school and new athletic fields around it while other school buildings in the community are basically taking up space and not being used properly. Yet your blaming the people at the State Capitol, did they want the new school built? The state and federal government are not to blame here, the Brainerd school board is. I hope this November when some of the members come up for re-election there shown the door. When Little Falls was in budget problems the school board was ran by idiots and they were all eventually ran out off office and the problem was fixed. People elected to the school board should be highly qualified and not people just looking for something to do. Example Little Falls when they elected a bunch of rich people's wives and they had no clue what they were doing and they ran the school system into the ground.

The new middle school was built with BONDING and has no impact on the school districts budget deficit. The failed LEVY referendum resulted in the necessary cuts to balance the budget. Bonds are for buildings and Levies are for learning. The above ignorance was the very reason for the failed referendum.

Don't try to make it that simple....it's not. While it's true that the VOTERS must have approved the BONDING for the new school, they sometimes are fooled...ok...not provided enough information. Building the school is one thing, but a new school means alot of things, it can mean more busses, more teachers, more utilities, more supplies, more mowing & snow removal, more of alot of things...I think you get my point.

So it is safe to say that the bonding used to build the new school is a SEPARATE issue from the failed levy/budget operating deficit, however, to say they are completely unrelated is mistaken...one affects the other.

[packerboy]

I dont know how to fix all of the problems that exist in our schools.

But if we can save sports by having the people who play pay, then lets do it.

I have been an advocate for years of taking hockey away from the high schools. This is one of the reasons why.

The hockey tournament makes a million dollars and the money goes to put on the tennis and golf tournaments and then the individual schools want to cut hockey because its too expensive or charge people hundreds of dollars to play.

Even though elliott and his commmie pals support such a system, I say we need change.

By the way, elliott spent the whole weekend at the tournament in a sweat shirt and didnt even bring any flannel with him.

I dont trust the public school system to do anything, let alone support our sports programs which are so vital to HS age kids.