Section 4AA

[Pioneerprideguy]

I believe a 2nd place finish in the SEC is better than a 2nd place finish in the CSC. Consequently, I believe coaches will vote WBL #1. Tartan will get the # 2 seed followed by #3 HM, #4 Roseville and #5 Still. It sets up some interesting semis. I don't think Tartan will be thrilled to see HM again. HM would love the opportunity to play the underdog role & you know Lex will have to say very little to get his guys ready to play. WB would see a familiar club for the 3rd time this year and that would be a wonderful matchup with either Rose/Still.

[joycer10]

My seeds as of now


2. Hill-Murray
Yes I know they lost to Tartan but that was definatley not their best game. Even though this team lost 4 kids to expulsions when they come to play they can still compete (proved in their win over St. Thomas). I think this team is well coached and will be ready to fight their way through this very close section

.

Are you the JV parent that wanted their kid up to Varsity.......this team is way different since those 4 kids got kicked off. For sure 2 of them have never been in trouble and should have gotten suspended. There is something fishy going on here......we will find out the answeres soon.

Ummm no. To be honest I hope Hill-Murray losses in the first round of the 4aa playoffs and I absolutley can't stand their hockey program. That being said I posted that before I found out Hill lost to Richfield and now I think they're most likely going to end up the 4th seed behind White Bear, Tartan,and Roseville. I also never said anything about them being the same team as they were before all I said is that they can still play at a decent level but even that is debatable now after losing to a team like Richfield.

[youngblood08]

I like that line-up.

#1 - WBL
#2 - Tartan
#3 - Roseville
#4 - Hill
#5 - Stillwater
#6 - MV
#7 - Johnson
NSP, Como, Saints

[BodyShots]

BodyShots,
using conference standings you are bringing in how non-section teams have done against the teams you are high lighting, which one could argue makes WBL look worse.

And yes, in about two hours I moved WBL up three spots with a win; that's how tight the 3-6 spots are, as I stated.

I'm not sure I follow you with that comment? The conference standings show WBL. Rose, HM, and Tartan as the only teams with winning records. That is why I say the top four seeds come out of these four teams. You are not going to seed Still, MV, or anybody else with a losing record above these four.

Now that you have the top four, you can then look at head-to-head and non-conference schedule to determine where these four end up.

As I've said many times on this board. Let the season play out before you start crowning a #1 seed. We can all guestimate at a point in time, but until the games are over, surprises (HM losing ot Richfield) always come into play.

[HShockeywatcher]

BodyShots,
I won't go into too many details, but giving conference standings instead of simply looking at how teams did head to head can factor in teams you're not looking at.

For example, Tartan is 1-0-1 against Hill Murray this season, but will probably finish the season one spot behind them. If you simply looked at the standings without looking at game results one would put Hill ahead of Tartan but if you saw the game results you would know Tartan should be ahead of Hill.

You can see these kind of examples all over all sports. For the conference ranking you can look at conference standing, but not for sections.

Tartan is undefeated in section play, they should get the top seed. Seeding is based on how you do in section play, that is what is and should be used to seed teams.

[sllek]

I agree with Body Shots comment that any speculation on seedings in this section before the end of the season is very premature. I see four teams with a chance to win the section: WBL, Tartan, Roseville and Hill. All four of them can make a case for being the #1 seed and you can come up with several reasons against each of them. Bascially, all four of them are incredibly inconsistent and if you played the section tournament four times, you would probably have four different winners. The positive note to this is that it should make for a very exciting playoffs. Good luck to all the teams.

[chester1991]

I believe this year the Classic Suburban is better of the two confrences.

1. Tartan
2. White Bear Lake
3. Roseville
4. Hill-Murray
5. Stillwater
6. Mounds View
7. North St Paul
8. Johnson
9. Saints
10. Como Park

That is what you will see next Sunday!

[formerlybackofnet]

I believe this year the Classic Suburban is better of the two confrences.

1. Tartan
2. White Bear Lake
3. Roseville
4. Hill-Murray
5. Stillwater
6. Mounds View
7. North St Paul
8. Johnson
9. Saints
10. Como Park

That is what you will see next Sunday!

After this past weekends games, seeding this section will not be easy. 4 or possibly 5 teams have a shot at a section championship.

[Pioneerprideguy]

I believe this year the Classic Suburban is better of the two confrences.

1. Tartan
2. White Bear Lake
3. Roseville
4. Hill-Murray
5. Stillwater
6. Mounds View
7. North St Paul
8. Johnson
9. Saints
10. Como Park

That is what you will see next Sunday!

I would love to see this seeding take place. If HM is able to get by a decent Stillwater club, they would get to see Tartan for the 3rd time this year...maybe that 3rd time will be a charm. In the other bracket would possibly be WB/Rose semi...very nice. Should be very interesting!

[BodyShots]

BodyShots,
I won't go into too many details, but giving conference standings instead of simply looking at how teams did head to head can factor in teams you're not looking at.

For example, Tartan is 1-0-1 against Hill Murray this season, but will probably finish the season one spot behind them. If you simply looked at the standings without looking at game results one would put Hill ahead of Tartan but if you saw the game results you would know Tartan should be ahead of Hill.

You can see these kind of examples all over all sports. For the conference ranking you can look at conference standing, but not for sections.

Tartan is undefeated in section play, they should get the top seed. Seeding is based on how you do in section play, that is what is and should be used to seed teams.

So, if a team plays the five worst teams in a section and goes 5-0, and another team plays the 5 best teams and goes 4-1, by your comments, you think the 5-0 team should automatically get seeded #1. I don't agree.

[formerlybackofnet]

BodyShots,
I won't go into too many details, but giving conference standings instead of simply looking at how teams did head to head can factor in teams you're not looking at.

For example, Tartan is 1-0-1 against Hill Murray this season, but will probably finish the season one spot behind them. If you simply looked at the standings without looking at game results one would put Hill ahead of Tartan but if you saw the game results you would know Tartan should be ahead of Hill.

You can see these kind of examples all over all sports. For the conference ranking you can look at conference standing, but not for sections.

Tartan is undefeated in section play, they should get the top seed. Seeding is based on how you do in section play, that is what is and should be used to seed teams.

So, if a team plays the five worst teams in a section and goes 5-0, and another team plays the 5 best teams and goes 4-1, by your comments, you think the 5-0 team should automatically get seeded #1. I don't agree.

None of Tartan's wins over section opponents (execpt a depleted Hill team) have winning records, so that argument doesn't hold much weight. the rest of their schedule is pretty soft so I don't see them getting the #1 seed. I know this statement will make someone mad, sorry.

[joycer10]

I believe this year the Classic Suburban is better of the two confrences.

1. Tartan
2. White Bear Lake
3. Roseville
4. Hill-Murray
5. Stillwater
6. Mounds View
7. North St Paul
8. Johnson
9. Saints
10. Como Park

That is what you will see next Sunday!

I agree with this after White Bear's loss to Cretin I don't think they can get the #1 seed and I think Roseville's win over Woodbury should put them ahead of Hill who just lost to Richfield.

[formerlybackofnet]

I believe this year the Classic Suburban is better of the two confrences.

1. Tartan
2. White Bear Lake
3. Roseville
4. Hill-Murray
5. Stillwater
6. Mounds View
7. North St Paul
8. Johnson
9. Saints
10. Como Park

That is what you will see next Sunday!

I agree with this after White Bear's loss to Cretin I don't think they can get the #1 seed and I think Roseville's win over Woodbury should put them ahead of Hill who just lost to Richfield.

If WB beats Woodbury this week (and that is a big if) WB gets the #1 seed, if not, Tartan.

[BodyShots]

I believe this year the Classic Suburban is better of the two confrences.

1. Tartan
2. White Bear Lake
3. Roseville
4. Hill-Murray
5. Stillwater
6. Mounds View
7. North St Paul
8. Johnson
9. Saints
10. Como Park

That is what you will see next Sunday!

I agree with this after White Bear's loss to Cretin I don't think they can get the #1 seed and I think Roseville's win over Woodbury should put them ahead of Hill who just lost to Richfield.

If WB beats Woodbury this week (and that is a big if) WB gets the #1 seed, if not, Tartan.

And if Roseville beats Cretin, and Woodbury beats WBL, then Roseville moves ahead of WBL. I'd even put HM ahead of WBL. Like I said, everything is up in the air until the season is over.

[formerlybackofnet]

I agree with this after White Bear's loss to Cretin I don't think they can get the #1 seed and I think Roseville's win over Woodbury should put them ahead of Hill who just lost to Richfield.

If WB beats Woodbury this week (and that is a big if) WB gets the #1 seed, if not, Tartan.

And if Roseville beats Cretin, and Woodbury beats WBL, then Roseville moves ahead of WBL. I'd even put HM ahead of WBL. Like I said, everything is up in the air until the season is over.

You are correct sir!

[joycer10]

I believe this year the Classic Suburban is better of the two confrences.

1. Tartan
2. White Bear Lake
3. Roseville
4. Hill-Murray
5. Stillwater
6. Mounds View
7. North St Paul
8. Johnson
9. Saints
10. Como Park

That is what you will see next Sunday!

I agree with this after White Bear's loss to Cretin I don't think they can get the #1 seed and I think Roseville's win over Woodbury should put them ahead of Hill who just lost to Richfield.

If WB beats Woodbury this week (and that is a big if) WB gets the #1 seed, if not, Tartan.

idk if it's that big of an if. Woodbury has not been playing well lately, sure if Woodbury steps up their game to the leval they're capable of then i think White Bear will have a tough time winning but if not it's going to be a very interesting game.

[HShockeywatcher]

BodyShots and formerlybackofnet,
I will not say your opinions are wrong, but here are my objections:
1. It sounds like you are holding Tartan responsible for not scheduling WBL and Roseville and not holding Roseville and WBL responsible for not scheduling Tartan.
2. This is a ten team section. Tartan played NSP twice (#7), Hill twice (#2-4), Mounds View once (#5-6), Stillwater once (#5-6), and Como Park once (#9).

Tartan beat MV and SW with 9GF and 5 GA. MV and SW are 1-3 against RV and 1-2-1 against WBL this season. Based on those numbers, there is nothing definitive about who is better than who aside from that all of the SEC teams can compete with each other on any given night. Which, in my opinion, puts Tartan up there.

Just my two cents.

[BodyShots]

BodyShots and formerlybackofnet,
I will not say your opinions are wrong, but here are my objections:
1. It sounds like you are holding Tartan responsible for not scheduling WBL and Roseville and not holding Roseville and WBL responsible for not scheduling Tartan.
2. This is a ten team section. Tartan played NSP twice (#7), Hill twice (#2-4), Mounds View once (#5-6), Stillwater once (#5-6), and Como Park once (#9).

Tartan beat MV and SW with 9GF and 5 GA. MV and SW are 1-3 against RV and 1-2-1 against WBL this season. Based on those numbers, there is nothing definitive about who is better than who aside from that all of the SEC teams can compete with each other on any given night. Which, in my opinion, puts Tartan up there.

Just my two cents.

I'm not holding anybody responsible for their schedules. Just stating the facts.

It you want to look at common opponents, then here are Tartan's and WBL's:
Century - Tartan lost 6-3, WBL won 7-1
Woodbury - Tartan lost 8-2, WBL lost 4-3 (2nd game this Thursday)
MV - Tartan won 5-3, WBL won 2-1 and 7-0
Park - Tartan won 6-2, WBL won 8-1 and 9-2
Still - Tartan won 4-2, WBL lost 2-1 (OT) and tied 4-4
HM - Tartan tied 1-1 and won 4-2, WBL lost 5-2

If you want to look at other non-conference foes:
Tartan - Como, Shakopee, Red Wing, and Faribault
WBL - Fargo S, Moorhead, Cloquet, Centennial, AHA, Tonka, DE.

In my opinion, if WBL beats Woodbury, they should be seeded above Tartan. If they lose, then Tartan should be above WBL. I would love to see these two in the section finals!

[WBLHockeyfan04]

Look at WBL's schedule compared to Tartan's. I'm not taking anything away from Tartan, because they're a good hockey team. But WBL has faced Centennial, AHA, Minnetonka, Moorhead, and Duluth East in their non conference games. I know that 3 of those were during the Schwans cup, but it's still top level competition in class AA. In all fairness to Tartan, they've won the games this season that they should have won. And not losing to Hill this year. Makes them deserving of the top seed, but I believe if WBL had Tartan's schedule. They wouldn't have no more than 4 or 5 losses this year. I guess my main point here is how good is Tartan? It's tough for me to really form an opinion of them, because they haven't played anyone other than Hill Murray, STA, and Woodbury this season that I think has any shot at going to state. (And lost to Woodbury by 6, and were swept by STA) I know the scheduling thing has been brought up throughout this thread, but it really is important to me in judging how good a team really is. I know I've predicted a Hill vs WBL section championship, but at this moment I think a Tartan vs WBL game intrigues me more. I guess we'll have to see what happens, but if WBL is playing at the top of their game. No team in this section will beat them. No matter what the seeding is.

[formerlybackofnet]

BodyShots and formerlybackofnet,
I will not say your opinions are wrong, but here are my objections:
1. It sounds like you are holding Tartan responsible for not scheduling WBL and Roseville and not holding Roseville and WBL responsible for not scheduling Tartan.
2. This is a ten team section. Tartan played NSP twice (#7), Hill twice (#2-4), Mounds View once (#5-6), Stillwater once (#5-6), and Como Park once (#9).

Tartan beat MV and SW with 9GF and 5 GA. MV and SW are 1-3 against RV and 1-2-1 against WBL this season. Based on those numbers, there is nothing definitive about who is better than who aside from that all of the SEC teams can compete with each other on any given night. Which, in my opinion, puts Tartan up there.

Just my two cents.

I'm not holding anybody responsible for their schedules. Just stating the facts.

It you want to look at common opponents, then here are Tartan's and WBL's:
Century - Tartan lost 6-3, WBL won 7-1
Woodbury - Tartan lost 8-2, WBL lost 4-3 (2nd game this Thursday)
MV - Tartan won 5-3, WBL won 2-1 and 7-0
Park - Tartan won 6-2, WBL won 8-1 and 9-2
Still - Tartan won 4-2, WBL lost 2-1 (OT) and tied 4-4
HM - Tartan tied 1-1 and won 4-2, WBL lost 5-2

If you want to look at other non-conference foes:
Tartan - Como, Shakopee, Red Wing, and Faribault
WBL - Fargo S, Moorhead, Cloquet, Centennial, AHA, Tonka, DE.

In my opinion, if WBL beats Woodbury, they should be seeded above Tartan. If they lose, then Tartan should be above WBL. I would love to see these two in the section finals!

I also a'm not holding anybody responsible for their schedule. Strength of schedule usually takes precident over win/loss record. I wouldnt be suprised to see Hill still get the #1 seed, just because they are Hill.

[Pioneerprideguy]

Things appear to be taking shape for the top 5 teams. After last night's games I believe Stillwater is locked in at 5, Roseville 4, and WB 3. Conventional wisdom will place HM 2 & Tartan 1 based solely on their head-head games. If HM beats Moohead (#1 seeded team) on Sat., will that be enough to slide them past Tartan?

[wbmd]

Things appear to be taking shape for the top 5 teams. After last night's games I believe Stillwater is locked in at 5, Roseville 4, and WB 3. Conventional wisdom will place HM 2 & Tartan 1 based solely on their head-head games. If HM beats Moohead (#1 seeded team) on Sat., will that be enough to slide them past Tartan?

Probably not. They said on the W.B.L. - Woodbury telecast last night that the seedings for 4AA are Saturday morning.

[Pioneerprideguy]

They may mispoke & meant Sunday as it has always been.

[pioneers]

Yes they usually seed 4AA on Sunday. Doubt Lechner would want to be in a seeding meeting on Saturday mornng with a game at 3

[pucknutz]

Things appear to be taking shape for the top 5 teams. After last night's games I believe Stillwater is locked in at 5, Roseville 4, and WB 3. Conventional wisdom will place HM 2 & Tartan 1 based solely on their head-head games. If HM beats Moohead (#1 seeded team) on Sat., will that be enough to slide them past Tartan?

PPG let me tip my cap to you, a person from the HM side with the wisdom and testicular fortitude to say...yeah maybe Tartan #1. So many people on this board use the theory that this is always gonna be HM or WBL #1 regardless. Listen, Tartan isn't a great team, but they are talented enough and deep enough to maybe pull one off for the underdogs. Tartan is kind of a blue collar, meat and potatos bunch that can either play well enough to win, or play selfishly and get their doors blown off. Much like the Pioneers this year, Tartan suffered a setback when Alex Gierke got hurt, and like the Pioneers, Tartan found others to step up and answer the bell.