Is Breck the best team in the state?

[muckandgrind]

I personally could give a Bodyshot's butt about the argument of whether or not a team like Breck or STA moves up to Class AA. Or if it's unfair for our Section 4AA to be ruled by H-M.. By rules, their enrollment falls within scope of which level they have chosen to play at, and just because Roseau, H-M and East opt to play up, doesn't mean anyone else has to.

Private schools are a business. For every Hill-Murray, there is a St. Bernard's, which has declared after 100+ years of providing an education, that it is closing. For every STA, there is a Mounds Park Academy/St. Paul Academy co-op. It's a private business, and if they choose to recruit to keep enrollment up for ALL extra-curricular activities, then that's what they have to do. Maybe on a job resume, it's looks better that you attended Cretin versus Highland Park..

Maybe there are more players like Mark Alt, who moreso went to CDH to be a QB, but just happened to be a very good hockey player. We can't assume all these players went to a private school just for hockey. Tom Quinlan was a H-M grad that was a solid hockey player, but plays in the MLB.

Does STA or Breck care what we think? Are they in business to please us? If trying to win a Class A state championship is more important to them, then let them do what they want. Maybe they are realistic and KNOW they can't compete with Class AA schools when it comes to sections, as to why they choose to stay in Class A. After all, they have lost twice to Mahtomedi to get to state.

You know, Holy Angels and Benilde didn't take much heat this year, because as it turned out, were nothing more than 4 seeds in sections (I think).. They were good squads. But, if they won the sections like H-M, everyone would be complaining about the unfair advantage.

The past couple years, H-M has CUT more kids than White Bear had trying out. For my selfish reasons, if it weren't for private schools like H-M, my son probably never would have worn a HS sweater, and think of the kids that got cut from H-M, that were probably good enough to play at a public school, but, no longer get the chance to play HS.

Although I agree that a private school is more about the morality and education , and sports/extra curricular activiites should be secondary, to make a blanket statement that all private schools should be in Class AA is wrong. And to state that the elite private schools should be in Class AA is borderline discriminatory for the MSHSL to require.

We all need to stop bitching about the publics versus privates, and just continue to hate the privates. This stuff isn't going to change.

With that said, Randy Shaver from KARE 11, and the leader and originator of HS sports weekly coverage was on 93X Monday morn, and he stated it was time for Breck to think about a move to Class AA.. It will take a guy like Shaver to possibly shake some things up, not us.

You make a good argument, but the flip side is that if a school like Breck wants to stay at the "A" level, then no one should never be able to claim, or even ask the question about Breck being the "best team in the state". If they truly want to be in the consideration for one of the top teams in the State, then they need to play at the highest level.

[StayAtHomeD]

I personally could give a Bodyshot's butt about the argument of whether or not a team like Breck or STA moves up to Class AA. Or if it's unfair for our Section 4AA to be ruled by H-M.. By rules, their enrollment falls within scope of which level they have chosen to play at, and just because Roseau, H-M and East opt to play up, doesn't mean anyone else has to.

Private schools are a business. For every Hill-Murray, there is a St. Bernard's, which has declared after 100+ years of providing an education, that it is closing. For every STA, there is a Mounds Park Academy/St. Paul Academy co-op. It's a private business, and if they choose to recruit to keep enrollment up for ALL extra-curricular activities, then that's what they have to do. Maybe on a job resume, it's looks better that you attended Cretin versus Highland Park..

Maybe there are more players like Mark Alt, who moreso went to CDH to be a QB, but just happened to be a very good hockey player. We can't assume all these players went to a private school just for hockey. Tom Quinlan was a H-M grad that was a solid hockey player, but plays in the MLB.

Does STA or Breck care what we think? Are they in business to please us? If trying to win a Class A state championship is more important to them, then let them do what they want. Maybe they are realistic and KNOW they can't compete with Class AA schools when it comes to sections, as to why they choose to stay in Class A. After all, they have lost twice to Mahtomedi to get to state.

You know, Holy Angels and Benilde didn't take much heat this year, because as it turned out, were nothing more than 4 seeds in sections (I think).. They were good squads. But, if they won the sections like H-M, everyone would be complaining about the unfair advantage.

The past couple years, H-M has CUT more kids than White Bear had trying out. For my selfish reasons, if it weren't for private schools like H-M, my son probably never would have worn a HS sweater, and think of the kids that got cut from H-M, that were probably good enough to play at a public school, but, no longer get the chance to play HS.

Although I agree that a private school is more about the morality and education , and sports/extra curricular activiites should be secondary, to make a blanket statement that all private schools should be in Class AA is wrong. And to state that the elite private schools should be in Class AA is borderline discriminatory for the MSHSL to require.

We all need to stop bitching about the publics versus privates, and just continue to hate the privates. This stuff isn't going to change.

With that said, Randy Shaver from KARE 11, and the leader and originator of HS sports weekly coverage was on 93X Monday morn, and he stated it was time for Breck to think about a move to Class AA.. It will take a guy like Shaver to possibly shake some things up, not us.

You make a good argument, but the flip side is that if a school like Breck wants to stay at the "A" level, then no one should never be able to claim, or even ask the question about Breck being the "best team in the state". If they truly want to be in the consideration for one of the top teams in the State, then they need to play at the highest level.

Yeah, that would be like the Wisconsin State Hockey Champ claiming to be the best team in the 5 state area or something like that.

Wouldn't that be cool though? Having a regional tourney televised with MN, MI, WI, ILL and maybe MA, PA and NY playing for a title?

[hshockeyfan53]

Hermantown was better than Breck in the championship game although it's not always the best team who wins. The Hawks not only out shot Breck by 11, but they flat out outplayed them. The lucky bounces sometimes don't go your way but that's the beauty of the sport.

[northwoods oldtimer]

I understand what you're saying but I just can't accept that kids who were developed against the best AA talent in the state-when they are assembled together on a small private school team they should be A.

How can New Ulm ever compete with that? How is that fair and what is Class A intended for then? I guess I would much rather see us go back to a one tier system because this one IS NOT what it was intended to be.

I remember the arguments and the assurances and everything I was afraid of has come to pass.

You are correct "the assurances" have not panned out under current system. The situation has as much to do with the hockey culture as it does with intent. Some kids (parents) go to privates to "be seen" that has to be considered when discussing programs (example like Hill Murray) and the wealth of talent they get year in and year out. Same goes for Marshall school of Duluth and the kids they landed this past season, each worked to varying degrees of success. With the current AAA summer development it is fair to say alliances have a potential to exist when considering hockey futures for kids. The "hockey culture" may have an impact on intent more than can be quantified into statistics.

[goldy313]

If I get some time I'll try to get more in depth about this tonight, but the gentleman who has sat next to me at the state tournment since it moved back into St. Paul was a former coach at either Henry or Washburn and was on the coaches committee years ago that wanted to go to a 2 class tournament. He defends the Tier system but faults the implementation process as over the course of time the coaches in charge changed and the plan was hijacked.

Originally the tier system was to help teams that were new or struggling over the long term; for instance Hill-Murray was in the St. Paul City conference and beat Humbolt by 30 goals in their two games, under the original idea teams like Humbolt would be sent to tier 2 thereby freeing up Hill-Murray from that obligation and Humbolt from that disaster. Tier 1 and Tier 2 teams would be seperate all year. It wasn't about enrollment, 25 years ago St. Thomas Academy was the #1 seed in the section 4 (Hill-Murray was state runner up and ended the year 21-4 with losses to STA twice, Cretin, and Burnsville), Breck #3 in section 5. These teams have been good for years.

The problem with Tier as it was implemented was it rewarded a team for being seeded 9 or 10 but punished a team for being 7 or 8. The original intent was to have the bottom 64 or so teams predetermined to be in tier 2 and be seperate, they could play their tournament at the Coliseum or wherever, not on TV, and and in front of few fans and St. Paul would still have the 1 class full tournament with all the amenities and privlidges. By 1992 the MSHSL went to 2 classes and the coaches association under some bad leadership put in the tier system purposely flawed so they could go to 2 classes by enrollment nievely thinking any school with tradition would choose AA, obviously that didn't happen and ironically the schools who clamored for 2 classes to be rid of the Hibbing's, Warroad's, Hill-Murray's and Edina's are either not fielding programs or still in sections with them.

[Goldfishdude]

You make a good argument, but the flip side is that if a school like Breck wants to stay at the "A" level, then no one should never be able to claim, or even ask the question about Breck being the "best team in the state". If they truly want to be in the consideration for one of the top teams in the State, then they need to play at the highest level.

Muckie, and for those that have also stated this, ABSOLUTELY!!! As the way the system is setup, they cannot make this argument since there are two teams that have won their final game.

Seek and Destroy offered awesome analysis by showing the schedules of Breck and Tonka. I don't have it at my finger tips, but I would think the Marshall School of Duluth has a better schedule than Breck.

However, I will make one other statement in respect to Breck, or any other private school who chooses to stay at Class A, about them having an unfair advantage. That is not a correct statement. They have a FAIR ADVANTAGE, because they are still acting by the guidelines that the MSHSL has implemented. Does it suck for the other Class A teams? Yes it does.. 100%! Is it an "unfair" advanatge? No! It's just an advantage.

Breck fans can bark up a tree all they want about being the best, but if Breck is going to partcipate in the manner it has chosen, then Breck fans will continue to be subjected to deal with the fact that people will have FAIR critiscm, and those private school haters will be vocal UNTIL they move up, and the Breck fans will have to accept it.

This year, we don't hate Holy Angels or Benilde as much, do we? Look at Lourdes... do we hate them for being in Class A?

[mulefarm]

Breck had 14 conference games. That left them 11 dates to schedule games. Knowing the type of team they had coming back I think they did a disservice to their players by not getting the most competive schedule possible. Maybe thats why only have 1 player committed. Coaches and scouts want to se them perform against quality compitition.

[gomnhky]

Didn't Breck win the Silver Division of this year's Schwan Cup? I believe that entitles them to move up to the Gold Division and Holy Angels will be relegated to the Silver Division since they went 0 and 3. My hunch tells me that Breck may decline since they were such a senior laden team but that would certainly be a good starting point to put the "best team in the state" theory to test. This year's Gold Division of the Schwan Cup had five of the eight teams represented in AA of the state tournament.

[east hockey]

You make a good argument, but the flip side is that if a school like Breck wants to stay at the "A" level, then no one should never be able to claim, or even ask the question about Breck being the "best team in the state". If they truly want to be in the consideration for one of the top teams in the State, then they need to play at the highest level.

Muckie, and for those that have also stated this, ABSOLUTELY!!! As the way the system is setup, they cannot make this argument since there are two teams that have won their final game.

Seek and Destroy offered awesome analysis by showing the schedules of Breck and Tonka. I don't have it at my finger tips, but I would think the Marshall School of Duluth has a better schedule than Breck.

However, I will make one other statement in respect to Breck, or any other private school who chooses to stay at Class A, about them having an unfair advantage. That is not a correct statement. They have a FAIR ADVANTAGE, because they are still acting by the guidelines that the MSHSL has implemented. Does it suck for the other Class A teams? Yes it does.. 100%! Is it an "unfair" advanatge? No! It's just an advantage.

Breck fans can bark up a tree all they want about being the best, but if Breck is going to partcipate in the manner it has chosen, then Breck fans will continue to be subjected to deal with the fact that people will have FAIR critiscm, and those private school haters will be vocal UNTIL they move up, and the Breck fans will have to accept it.

This year, we don't hate Holy Angels or Benilde as much, do we? Look at Lourdes... do we hate them for being in Class A?

Going by their opponents' average PageStat rating, the five most difficult schedules in Class A:

1. St Thomas Academy
2. East Grand Forks
3. Mahtomedi
4. East Ridge
5. Warroad

Breck was 17th.

Even though STA had the toughest Class A schedule, there were 30 Class AA teams with a tougher schedule by PageStat rating.

Lee

[StillAnEagle]

You make a good argument, but the flip side is that if a school like Breck wants to stay at the "A" level, then no one should never be able to claim, or even ask the question about Breck being the "best team in the state". If they truly want to be in the consideration for one of the top teams in the State, then they need to play at the highest level.

Muckie, and for those that have also stated this, ABSOLUTELY!!! As the way the system is setup, they cannot make this argument since there are two teams that have won their final game.

Seek and Destroy offered awesome analysis by showing the schedules of Breck and Tonka. I don't have it at my finger tips, but I would think the Marshall School of Duluth has a better schedule than Breck.

However, I will make one other statement in respect to Breck, or any other private school who chooses to stay at Class A, about them having an unfair advantage. That is not a correct statement. They have a FAIR ADVANTAGE, because they are still acting by the guidelines that the MSHSL has implemented. Does it suck for the other Class A teams? Yes it does.. 100%! Is it an "unfair" advanatge? No! It's just an advantage.

Breck fans can bark up a tree all they want about being the best, but if Breck is going to partcipate in the manner it has chosen, then Breck fans will continue to be subjected to deal with the fact that people will have FAIR critiscm, and those private school haters will be vocal UNTIL they move up, and the Breck fans will have to accept it.

This year, we don't hate Holy Angels or Benilde as much, do we? Look at Lourdes... do we hate them for being in Class A?

Yeah I guess the question isn't if it's FAIR - it's whether it's the "RIGHT" thing to do. Regardless of MSHSL rules Breck should step up and do that right thing - which would be to play in the AA class. Stop cleaning up on the little boys and grow some hair on your chest.

[summer]

You make a good argument, but the flip side is that if a school like Breck wants to stay at the "A" level, then no one should never be able to claim, or even ask the question about Breck being the "best team in the state". If they truly want to be in the consideration for one of the top teams in the State, then they need to play at the highest level.

Muckie, and for those that have also stated this, ABSOLUTELY!!! As the way the system is setup, they cannot make this argument since there are two teams that have won their final game.

Seek and Destroy offered awesome analysis by showing the schedules of Breck and Tonka. I don't have it at my finger tips, but I would think the Marshall School of Duluth has a better schedule than Breck.

However, I will make one other statement in respect to Breck, or any other private school who chooses to stay at Class A, about them having an unfair advantage. That is not a correct statement. They have a FAIR ADVANTAGE, because they are still acting by the guidelines that the MSHSL has implemented. Does it suck for the other Class A teams? Yes it does.. 100%! Is it an "unfair" advanatge? No! It's just an advantage.

Breck fans can bark up a tree all they want about being the best, but if Breck is going to partcipate in the manner it has chosen, then Breck fans will continue to be subjected to deal with the fact that people will have FAIR critiscm, and those private school haters will be vocal UNTIL they move up, and the Breck fans will have to accept it.

This year, we don't hate Holy Angels or Benilde as much, do we? Look at Lourdes... do we hate them for being in Class A?

I think Breck does have the best team in the state. I also think the MSHSL for whatever reason (lobbying/big money/big business) has given private schools the right to have an unfair advantage. If it was fair, you couldn't buy your way into the school for a chance to play on an all star team. The only time it will change is if Holy Angels and Benilde-Saint Margaret win their current section year after year, the powers at Edina, Wayzata and Eden Prairie would never let that happen, unless they bought their kids onto those private all star teams.

[muckandgrind]

You make a good argument, but the flip side is that if a school like Breck wants to stay at the "A" level, then no one should never be able to claim, or even ask the question about Breck being the "best team in the state". If they truly want to be in the consideration for one of the top teams in the State, then they need to play at the highest level.

Muckie, and for those that have also stated this, ABSOLUTELY!!! As the way the system is setup, they cannot make this argument since there are two teams that have won their final game.

Seek and Destroy offered awesome analysis by showing the schedules of Breck and Tonka. I don't have it at my finger tips, but I would think the Marshall School of Duluth has a better schedule than Breck.

However, I will make one other statement in respect to Breck, or any other private school who chooses to stay at Class A, about them having an unfair advantage. That is not a correct statement. They have a FAIR ADVANTAGE, because they are still acting by the guidelines that the MSHSL has implemented. Does it suck for the other Class A teams? Yes it does.. 100%! Is it an "unfair" advanatge? No! It's just an advantage.

Breck fans can bark up a tree all they want about being the best, but if Breck is going to partcipate in the manner it has chosen, then Breck fans will continue to be subjected to deal with the fact that people will have FAIR critiscm, and those private school haters will be vocal UNTIL they move up, and the Breck fans will have to accept it.

This year, we don't hate Holy Angels or Benilde as much, do we? Look at Lourdes... do we hate them for being in Class A?

I think Breck does have the best team in the state. I also think the MSHSL for whatever reason (lobbying/big money/big business) has given private schools the right to have an unfair advantage. If it was fair, you couldn't buy your way into the school for a chance to play on an all star team. The only time it will change is if Holy Angels and Benilde-Saint Margaret win their current section year after year, the powers at Edina, Wayzata and Eden Prairie would never let that happen, unless they bought their kids onto those private all star teams.

If you want to make the argument that Hill-Murray is the best team in the state, I might buy that. But Breck???? Puh-leeze. They played a weak schedule and played Class A in the tournament. That alone disqualifies them from any "best team in the State" talk. Hermantown almost took them out...Hill-Murray, Edina or Minnetonka would've absolutely DESTROYED Breck.

[Goldy23]

Muckie, and for those that have also stated this, ABSOLUTELY!!! As the way the system is setup, they cannot make this argument since there are two teams that have won their final game.

Seek and Destroy offered awesome analysis by showing the schedules of Breck and Tonka. I don't have it at my finger tips, but I would think the Marshall School of Duluth has a better schedule than Breck.

However, I will make one other statement in respect to Breck, or any other private school who chooses to stay at Class A, about them having an unfair advantage. That is not a correct statement. They have a FAIR ADVANTAGE, because they are still acting by the guidelines that the MSHSL has implemented. Does it suck for the other Class A teams? Yes it does.. 100%! Is it an "unfair" advanatge? No! It's just an advantage.

Breck fans can bark up a tree all they want about being the best, but if Breck is going to partcipate in the manner it has chosen, then Breck fans will continue to be subjected to deal with the fact that people will have FAIR critiscm, and those private school haters will be vocal UNTIL they move up, and the Breck fans will have to accept it.

This year, we don't hate Holy Angels or Benilde as much, do we? Look at Lourdes... do we hate them for being in Class A?

I think Breck does have the best team in the state. I also think the MSHSL for whatever reason (lobbying/big money/big business) has given private schools the right to have an unfair advantage. If it was fair, you couldn't buy your way into the school for a chance to play on an all star team. The only time it will change is if Holy Angels and Benilde-Saint Margaret win their current section year after year, the powers at Edina, Wayzata and Eden Prairie would never let that happen, unless they bought their kids onto those private all star teams.

If you want to make the argument that Hill-Murray is the best team in the state, I might buy that. But Breck???? Puh-leeze. They played a weak schedule and played Class A in the tournament. That alone disqualifies them from any "best team in the State" talk. Hermantown almost took them out...Hill-Murray, Edina or Minnetonka would've absolutely DESTROYED Breck.

Mucker, I think you've being doing a little to much grinding for your own good. I think its safe to say the Shattuck is the best team in the State by quite a bit and while Breck lost to them the score was only 4-1. So to say that they would be "DESTROYED" by inferior Minnetonka or Edina teams is just plain ignorant.

Is Breck the best team in the State this year? Don't really know. Are they one of the top 4 or 5 teams? For sure.

I agree with all of the posts supporting a 16 team one class tournament!

[muckandgrind]

I think Breck does have the best team in the state. I also think the MSHSL for whatever reason (lobbying/big money/big business) has given private schools the right to have an unfair advantage. If it was fair, you couldn't buy your way into the school for a chance to play on an all star team. The only time it will change is if Holy Angels and Benilde-Saint Margaret win their current section year after year, the powers at Edina, Wayzata and Eden Prairie would never let that happen, unless they bought their kids onto those private all star teams.

If you want to make the argument that Hill-Murray is the best team in the state, I might buy that. But Breck???? Puh-leeze. They played a weak schedule and played Class A in the tournament. That alone disqualifies them from any "best team in the State" talk. Hermantown almost took them out...Hill-Murray, Edina or Minnetonka would've absolutely DESTROYED Breck.

Mucker, I think you've being doing a little to much grinding for your own good. I think its safe to say the Shattuck is the best team in the State by quite a bit and while Breck lost to them the score was only 4-1. So to say that they would be "DESTROYED" by inferior Minnetonka or Edina teams is just plain ignorant.

Is Breck the best team in the State this year? Don't really know. Are they one of the top 4 or 5 teams? For sure.
I agree with all of the posts supporting a 16 team one class tournament!

You're saying that just because they lost to SSM by a score of 4-1, that should put them in the top 5 HS teams in the State? Again, by virtue of the fact that they CHOSE to play at a lower level, both schedule-wise and tournament class, they take themselves out of any consideration as being among the best teams in the State.

[slapshot445]

[quote="saucepass"]Hey Slapshot- sounds like you are an edina jock sniffer. Get your boys and call some breck boys....book some ice time and play a game. If you are that confident, than they will step up and beat brecks team. I believe the breck kids would strap them on over the next few weeks. Would Edinas? With both schools money...make it a charity event?!?!

Only problem is Edina would be embarrassed if they lost....

Without the hermantown trap, no school can skate with breck..edina or hill murray would be close.[/quote]

you think edina is afraid?

edina played multiple top 10 teams throughout the year including tonka multiple times, aha, bsm, wayzata, eden prarie, and many more. the toughest team breck played was blake. you're not convinving anyone, all of those teams would kill breck. i still cant believe this is even being debated. and you're calling edina afraid

[slapshot445]

[quote="saucepass"]I think they may be better teams...but they don't have the team speed to keep up with them.

You can coach the teams to do what Hermantown did to slow them down. But if you play breck straight up, they have too much speed.

I believe that the top 6 teams in the state can beat each other on any given night.[/quote]

too bad breck isn't in the top 6, not even top 10.

[slapshot445]

[quote="moose27"][quote="slapshot445"][quote="moose27"][quote="sickflow22"]Class A is a JV tournament[/quote]


Go work on your hair buddy!! The Final Four teams in the A tournament were as a good as the final four in the AA tournament.[/quote]

you obviously have no hockey integrity whatsoever, edina would beat breck 5 to 0. i know cuz i personally have played against multiple players from both teams, edina jv would be more suitable for breck to play. it's just fact if you watch the games it is obvious which class is better[/quote]


Your integrity was lost with two letters pal.. JV.. If you honestly watched the final 4 in each class and said this, it is obvious you have no scouting or evaluation skills whats so ever!![/quote]

actually i watched every game in the final four for each tournament, like i said you're not convinving anyone. the state champion is edina end of discussion, i cant believe breck would be too pu$$y to move to aa, but then sit there and call themselves the best in the state. it's absolutely false

[BBB]

I think its safe to say the Shattuck is the best team in the State by quite a bit

They only beat HA 5-4 at home and a BSM at home 4-2. That is hardly enough for me to believe they are far and away the best team in the state. With only scores to compare these teams, I see HA lost by 3 to tonka, wbl, tonka by 4, tied Edina early in the season but lost in the regions and lost to Hill. Holy Angels mostly beatup on weak teams but struggled against good AA competition. Benilde was nothing special this year either.
I would like to see how shattuck would stack up Against Edina, Tonka, and Hill on the road or at nuetral sites. My guess would be they would be 1 and 2 in three games.

[Goldfishdude]

You make a good argument, but the flip side is that if a school like Breck wants to stay at the "A" level, then no one should never be able to claim, or even ask the question about Breck being the "best team in the state". If they truly want to be in the consideration for one of the top teams in the State, then they need to play at the highest level.

Muckie, and for those that have also stated this, ABSOLUTELY!!! As the way the system is setup, they cannot make this argument since there are two teams that have won their final game.

Seek and Destroy offered awesome analysis by showing the schedules of Breck and Tonka. I don't have it at my finger tips, but I would think the Marshall School of Duluth has a better schedule than Breck.

However, I will make one other statement in respect to Breck, or any other private school who chooses to stay at Class A, about them having an unfair advantage. That is not a correct statement. They have a FAIR ADVANTAGE, because they are still acting by the guidelines that the MSHSL has implemented. Does it suck for the other Class A teams? Yes it does.. 100%! Is it an "unfair" advanatge? No! It's just an advantage.

Breck fans can bark up a tree all they want about being the best, but if Breck is going to partcipate in the manner it has chosen, then Breck fans will continue to be subjected to deal with the fact that people will have FAIR critiscm, and those private school haters will be vocal UNTIL they move up, and the Breck fans will have to accept it.

This year, we don't hate Holy Angels or Benilde as much, do we? Look at Lourdes... do we hate them for being in Class A?

I think Breck does have the best team in the state. I also think the MSHSL for whatever reason (lobbying/big money/big business) has given private schools the right to have an unfair advantage. If it was fair, you couldn't buy your way into the school for a chance to play on an all star team. The only time it will change is if Holy Angels and Benilde-Saint Margaret win their current section year after year, the powers at Edina, Wayzata and Eden Prairie would never let that happen, unless they bought their kids onto those private all star teams.

First off, great info, Lee on the strength of schedules...

Next.... I am not trying to pretend I know it all, because I don't, and I am not trying to be a publicist and lobbyist for private schools. I am trying to provide cognitive and rational thought process.

People have to understand, private schools are a PRIVATE business. They don't get tax dollars, and other than meeting the curriculum standards that the State of Minnesota resides over (as per getting school accreditation), I am not sure it's accurate to say the State allows/ provides big business/lobbying.

I would argue most of the current transfer rules were set in place to restrict the private school "advantage". If a player gets cut, in order to transfer back to a public school, most likely the player will have to play a year of JV. I believe it's intent is designed to discourage those bubble kids from taking the chance of going to a private school if the student-athlete's desire is to play HS hockey.

There's alot to be said about school pride. Having great athletics and academics makes it EASIER for parents and kids to send their students to these schools, and as demographics change or just plain locations of the schools, in order for them to survive, it's a huge bonus that quality student-athletes attend.

As cited before, St. Bernard's in St. Paul announced it's closing. I am an alum of St. Agnes, and it almost closed. These schools rely heavily on private donations, and admissions to survive, plus whatever any Church contributions. The teachers make less money in most cases than public schools. It's a sacrifice the teacher choose, too.

And as stated, how is it fair you are buying a way on to an all-star team?? Well, I think you answered your own question. There IS a price to pay. That makes it a FAIR advantage... This isn't like Hopkins basketball, where it's a public school and the basketball kids come from wherever.

BUT, how many kids a year end up going back to a public school after getting cut from a private school? I bet the percentage is low, which tells me, they student-athlete is there for the education and values taught. At WBL, we had one kid come back from St. Thomas this past year, and that was a combination of the student-athlete didn't like the school, and also, financial hardships affected the family. He had to play JV.

[masterB]

Muckie, and for those that have also stated this, ABSOLUTELY!!! As the way the system is setup, they cannot make this argument since there are two teams that have won their final game.

Seek and Destroy offered awesome analysis by showing the schedules of Breck and Tonka. I don't have it at my finger tips, but I would think the Marshall School of Duluth has a better schedule than Breck.

However, I will make one other statement in respect to Breck, or any other private school who chooses to stay at Class A, about them having an unfair advantage. That is not a correct statement. They have a FAIR ADVANTAGE, because they are still acting by the guidelines that the MSHSL has implemented. Does it suck for the other Class A teams? Yes it does.. 100%! Is it an "unfair" advanatge? No! It's just an advantage.

Breck fans can bark up a tree all they want about being the best, but if Breck is going to partcipate in the manner it has chosen, then Breck fans will continue to be subjected to deal with the fact that people will have FAIR critiscm, and those private school haters will be vocal UNTIL they move up, and the Breck fans will have to accept it.

This year, we don't hate Holy Angels or Benilde as much, do we? Look at Lourdes... do we hate them for being in Class A?

I think Breck does have the best team in the state. I also think the MSHSL for whatever reason (lobbying/big money/big business) has given private schools the right to have an unfair advantage. If it was fair, you couldn't buy your way into the school for a chance to play on an all star team. The only time it will change is if Holy Angels and Benilde-Saint Margaret win their current section year after year, the powers at Edina, Wayzata and Eden Prairie would never let that happen, unless they bought their kids onto those private all star teams.

If you want to make the argument that Hill-Murray is the best team in the state, I might buy that. But Breck???? Puh-leeze. They played a weak schedule and played Class A in the tournament. That alone disqualifies them from any "best team in the State" talk. Hermantown almost took them out...Hill-Murray, Edina or Minnetonka would've absolutely DESTROYED Breck.

Final statement: the argument that because a team played in a lower conference against weaker competition in NO WAY automatically disqualifies them from the discussion of being the best. So tired of hearing this argument. The analogy I think of is Lebron James's and his St. Vincent-St. Mary's bball squad. They played in a small Catholic league in Ohio and were not in the biggest level in the state. They absolutely destroyed their competition, and when the argument was made that they were the best in the state, you wouldn't disqualify them because they were in a small catholic league (which is appropriate for this school based on their small enrollment) and beat up on weaker conference opponents w/ a few tough games against out of state competition sprinkled in. For those ND football fans out there, same with Jimmy Clausen and his Westlake Village HS football team in CA. That being said, do I think Breck was the MN HS equivalent of St. Vincent-St. Mary's? No. Maybe back when they had Blake Wheeler, but not this year. There was no "Lebron" on that team. Just want to refute the notion that a team is automatically out of the discussion just because of class level.

[Goldfishdude]

I agree with you MasterB..... It neither disqualifies them from being a part of the discussion "as the best team in the state", nor does it mandate repression from the private school haters to chastise the choice these private school's make in which Class is chosen to participate.

All I am trying to suggest, because of the financial costs/risks involved per student-athlete in attending a private school is that the private schools have a fair advanatge and not an unfair advantage, and because they don't have feeder systems, the private schools have no real choice but to operate in the manner that the MSHSL governs.

Wayzata, Eden Prairie, Edina, Tonka (to name a few) have a fair financial advantage, and that's why we ridicule/hate them. Breck and STA have a fair financial advanatge, therefore, we can't ridicule them and label them as having an unfair advantage.

I guess what I am trying to stress is that people should hate private schools just for the sake of hating them, but it isn't an unfair advantage.

[moose27]

[quote="northwoods oldtimer"][quote]There is no way the small time communities can compete with that. Thus the reason for Class A hockey.[/quote]


I 100% disagree!!


More and more youth programs in class A schools need to step up to the plate and commit to their programs. Look at the successful class A programs that are public schools. I can all but guarantee the commitment level to the hockey program is drastically different in Hermantown, Warroad as it is in New Ulm. Sorry but if you want a successful Class A program you have to work that much harder because you have that much less in the number of participants in your program and the resources you have!! Kudos to the programs like Warroad and Hermantown that get it done!! Hard work and a little bit of luck goes a long way for a class A program. Get the parents and the kids committed to long process from day 1 and pray and hope that you recruited the athletes in your town from day 1 for youth hockey program!!

Do i agree with the system we have for class A hockey. NO... But you know what. It is what it is and i am tired of people always looking for any easy way out and making excuses. Make it easier for myself and my child to succeed. It is an excuse and you know what only the weak make excuses. A public school has won the Class A tournament in the past and will in the future!! Warroad, Red Wing, Hermantown have all done it!!! Spend less time writing posts on a dam message board and take the mites in your town out to the out door rink or to college or pro game to build the passion to become a hockey player!!

[sickflow22]

Class A is a JV tournament

Go work on your hair buddy!! The Final Four teams in the A tournament were as a good as the final four in the AA tournament.

ya right not even close..Hill murrays, edinas, AV's, and Minnetonka 4th line JV players would dominate class A if they made up a team

[letsgowild]

Karl, good point about New Ulm compared to Warroad and Hermantown. My rebuttal is that I believe that the great programs are a result of a community effort which I believe better fits the spirit of the Class A tournament.
[/quote]

Just to get the record straight New Ulm never played Warroad and they only played Hermantown once in the youth program and New Ulm beat Hermantown 4 to 1 in bantam a"s two years ago in Hermantown....

[slapshot445]

[quote="masterB"][quote="muckandgrind"][quote="summer"][quote="Goldfishdude"][quote="muckandgrind"] You make a good argument, but the flip side is that if a school like Breck wants to stay at the "A" level, then no one [b]should never be able to claim, or even ask the question about Breck being the "best team in the state". [/b]If they truly want to be in the consideration for one of the top teams in the State, then they need to play at the highest level.[/quote]

Muckie, and for those that have also stated this, ABSOLUTELY!!! As the way the system is setup, they cannot make this argument since there are two teams that have won their final game.

Seek and Destroy offered awesome analysis by showing the schedules of Breck and Tonka. I don't have it at my finger tips, but I would [i]think[/i] the Marshall School of Duluth has a better schedule than Breck.

However, I will make one other statement in respect to Breck, or any other private school who chooses to stay at Class A, about them having an unfair advantage. That is not a correct statement. They have a FAIR ADVANTAGE, because they are still acting by the guidelines that the MSHSL has implemented. Does it suck for the other Class A teams? Yes it does.. 100%! Is it an "unfair" advanatge? No! It's just an advantage.

Breck fans can bark up a tree all they want about being the best, but if Breck is going to partcipate in the manner it has chosen, then Breck fans will continue to be subjected to deal with the fact that people will have FAIR critiscm, and those private school haters will be vocal UNTIL they move up, and the Breck fans will have to accept it.

This year, we don't hate Holy Angels or Benilde as much, do we? Look at Lourdes... do we hate them for being in Class A?[/quote]

[b]I think Breck does have the best team in the state[/b]. I also think the MSHSL for whatever reason (lobbying/big money/big business) has given private schools the right to have an [b]unfair [/b]advantage. If it was fair, you couldn't buy your way into the school for a chance to play on an all star team. The only time it will change is if Holy Angels and Benilde-Saint Margaret win their current section year after year, the powers at Edina, Wayzata and Eden Prairie would never let that happen, unless they bought their kids onto those private all star teams.[/quote]

If you want to make the argument that Hill-Murray is the best team in the state, I might buy that. But Breck???? Puh-leeze. They played a weak schedule and played Class A in the tournament. That alone disqualifies them from any "best team in the State" talk. Hermantown almost took them out...Hill-Murray, Edina or Minnetonka would've absolutely DESTROYED Breck.[/quote]


Final statement: the argument that because a team played in a lower conference against weaker competition in NO WAY automatically disqualifies them from the discussion of being the best. So tired of hearing this argument. The analogy I think of is Lebron James's and his St. Vincent-St. Mary's bball squad. They played in a small Catholic league in Ohio and were not in the biggest level in the state. They absolutely destroyed their competition, and when the argument was made that they were the best in the state, you wouldn't disqualify them because they were in a small catholic league (which is appropriate for this school based on their small enrollment) and beat up on weaker conference opponents w/ a few tough games against out of state competition sprinkled in. For those ND football fans out there, same with Jimmy Clausen and his Westlake Village HS football team in CA. That being said, do I think Breck was the MN HS equivalent of St. Vincent-St. Mary's? No. Maybe back when they had Blake Wheeler, but not this year. There was no "Lebron" on that team. Just want to refute the notion that a team is automatically out of the discussion just because of class level.[/quote]



the problem is breck didn't destroy their competition, and were outplayed in a game by a team that is nowhere near the top of state.