Mr. Hockey 2010-2011

[Gopher Blog]

Unfortunately because of the lack of transparency, we have no clue how close the vote was for any specific year. We might be talking about a vote or two difference in some cases.

It makes for nice debate but the reality is that no matter what side you argue on, you can find ways to criticize things with this award. Just like any award that is selected on players that play different competition levels, etc. It is no different than scouting players for the draft in some sense. Scouts are comparing players against each other despite competition differences, position differences, etc. There will always be room for debate and solid arguments can often be made for more than one guy.

The reality there is no way to satisfy everybody. Most critics have some personal reason to complain as opposed to some innocent bystander opinion.

TEO, you were rather cocky in your remarks on who would win Mr. Hockey two seasons ago (brashly remarking to me how it is "your job" to predict behavior so you felt you knew how the voters would go, etc). It didn't work out that way. Nobody argues that Hanowski shouldn't have been a serious candidate and he had a legit argument to be the winner (just as Gardiner does). But it is tough to argue that the actual winner didn't deserve it that year either. Pretty much what we could say most years since the pool is somewhat watered down these days since some very good players end up with the NTDP or in the USHL for their senior year.

[FREDFLINTSTONE]

FYP

Leddy lost 3 games all year. Those 3 games were to either the number one or number 2 ranked team in the state (AA). Honowski payed a soft schedule at best. Did he get to state in the A class. I don't know because I only follow the AA. I guess it's good to have some size, but I think that is why he was a one way player.

I was trying to draw a parallel between Hanowski's situation to Ness's situation, not really trying to compare Hanowski to Leddy.

Here's one stat that takes Little Falls' soft schedule out of the equation... Hanowski is the leading scorer for the STATE TOURNAMENT since the inception of the Mr. Hockey award.

Again, I think either Hanowski should have won the award OR Gardiner should have won the award. I would not be able to argue that they both should have won the award.

I think you would have a case for Hanowski had he followed up his 5 or 6 point game against Virginia with a multiple point game against Breck, but he was absent from the score sheet against Breck.

[FREDFLINTSTONE]

Leddy lost 3 games all year. Those 3 games were to either the number one or number 2 ranked team in the state (AA). Honowski payed a soft schedule at best. Did he get to state in the A class. I don't know because I only follow the AA. I guess it's good to have some size, but I think that is why he was a one way player.

I was trying to draw a parallel between Hanowski's situation to Ness's situation, not really trying to compare Hanowski to Leddy.

Here's one stat that takes Little Falls' soft schedule out of the equation... Hanowski is the leading scorer for the STATE TOURNAMENT since the inception of the Mr. Hockey award.

Again, I think either Hanowski should have won the award OR Gardiner should have won the award. I would not be able to argue that they both should have won the award.

I think you would have a case for Hanowski had he followed up his 5 or 6 point game against Virginia with a multiple point game against Breck, but he was absent from the score sheet against Breck.

As far as Gardinar, don't look at how he plays today, look back at the HS player. Had he played "D" for more than one year, he would have had a much better chance. He simply made too many rookie mistakes at "D".

[The Exiled One]

TEO, you were rather cocky in your remarks on who would win Mr. Hockey two seasons ago.

It's a message board, I thought being cocky was the point.

I think you would have a case for Hanowski had he followed up his 5 or 6 point game against Virginia with a multiple point game against Breck, but he was absent from the score sheet against Breck.

The Mr. Hockey voting was completed before the Breck game.

[FREDFLINTSTONE]

TEO, you were rather cocky in your remarks on who would win Mr. Hockey two seasons ago.

It's a message board, I thought being cocky was the point.

I think you would have a case for Hanowski had he followed up his 5 or 6 point game against Virginia with a multiple point game against Breck, but he was absent from the score sheet against Breck.

The Mr. Hockey voting was completed before the Breck game.

I stated the only case "you" would have had. No one said anything about the voters and when they voted. I believe they got it right, and my case is backed up by that Breck game. Hanowski can put up huge numbers when playing soft teams, but gets goose egged when playing good teams.

[The Exiled One]

TEO, you were rather cocky in your remarks on who would win Mr. Hockey two seasons ago.

It's a message board, I thought being cocky was the point.

I think you would have a case for Hanowski had he followed up his 5 or 6 point game against Virginia with a multiple point game against Breck, but he was absent from the score sheet against Breck.

The Mr. Hockey voting was completed before the Breck game.

I stated the only case "you" would have had. No one said anything about the voters and when they voted. I believe they got it right, and my case is backed up by that Breck game. Hanowski can put up huge numbers when playing soft teams, but gets goose egged when playing good teams.

I know that UMD isn't quite as good as Breck, but I do think that Ben's proven he can put up points against solid opponents, despite your convincing data set of 1 game.

[FREDFLINTSTONE]

It's a message board, I thought being cocky was the point.
The Mr. Hockey voting was completed before the Breck game.

I stated the only case "you" would have had. No one said anything about the voters and when they voted. I believe they got it right, and my case is backed up by that Breck game. Hanowski can put up huge numbers when playing soft teams, but gets goose egged when playing good teams.

I know that UMD isn't quite as good as Breck, but I do think that Ben's proven he can put up points against solid opponents, despite your convincing data set of 1 game.

I don't think UMD is as good as Breck either, but that is a whole new topic.

Give me a list of the quality teams he has played and list the points he amassed in those games.

[BBB]

Leddy did a lot of things great that didn't show up on the scoresheet. When I saw him play he was basically unbeatable in one on ones and controlled the play in his own zone. His passing and breakouts were as good as it gets. Hanowski probably didn't have to worry about anything but scoring given Small Falls schedule. The played one good team that year and lost by 5 goals. Regardless of who the better player was the benefit of the doubt is going to go to the guy who plays better competition or in a better conference. Just like the heisman trophy would go to the player from Texas over a player from Boise State if all other things were considered equal.

anyway, I think both the Ness/Gardiner and Hanowski/Leddy races are still in the air.

As far as Ness/Gardiner, that is the funniest comment ive heard on here since march when someone claimed the class A tourney was just as deep as the AA. I am guessing you don't follow hockey?

[warriors41]

Leddy did a lot of things great that didn't show up on the scoresheet. When I saw him play he was basically unbeatable in one on ones and controlled the play in his own zone. His passing and breakouts were as good as it gets. Hanowski probably didn't have to worry about anything but scoring given Small Falls schedule. The played one good team that year and lost by 5 goals. Regardless of who the better player was the benefit of the doubt is going to go to the guy who plays better competition or in a better conference. Just like the heisman trophy would go to the player from Texas over a player from Boise State if all other things were considered equal.

anyway, I think both the Ness/Gardiner and Hanowski/Leddy races are still in the air.

As far as Ness/Gardiner, that is the funniest comment ive heard on here since march when someone claimed the class A tourney was just as deep as the AA. I am guessing you don't follow hockey?

But you just bashed Hanowski for playing a weaker schedule and being from a weaker conference. Roseau's schedule isn't very difficult being as they are so far north and can't afford to schedule many of the better metro teams. Also the Marriuchi (?) conference sin't nearly as good as whatever Minnetonka played in. You bash one player for one thing and sing praises for another player in the same situation.

[BBB]

I didn't try to bash Hanowski if I did. I just stated that they played a weak schedule where he probably wasn't really challenged much and could sort of do what he wanted. If anything I said he probably lost votes because of the schedule he played where it might have given 494 players like Leddy an unfair advantage.

[warriors41]

I didn't try to bash Hanowski if I did. I just stated that they played a weak schedule where he probably wasn't really challenged much and could sort of do what he wanted. If anything I said he probably lost votes because of the schedule he played where it might have given 494 players like Leddy an unfair advantage.

The point I'm trying to make is that while it is true that Hanowski played an easier schedule than Leddy, the same is true regarding Ness and Gardiner. Roseau essentially plays a A schedule because of where they are located; it's tough for them to schedule high end AA teams. Ness had a much easier time showing how good he was against his lower quality opponents than Gardiner did with Minnetonka's tougher schedule.

[BBB]

Im not doubting that either. Yes, Roseau had an easy schedule and that could have hurt Ness in the voting but he still won the award. My point on Ness/Gardiner was that I didn't agree with the guy who said they are still on the same level.

[Gopher Blog]

Even though prior year results shouldn't be a part of Mr. Hockey, one area where the Ness/Gardiner vs. Leddy/Hanowski discussion has a difference is Ness was an absolute stand out player at the state tourney when Roseau won the AA title his junior year. Hanowski wasn't bad his junior year at state but his team lost right out of the gate and it probably didn't help his chances the next year when people questioned whether his output was a matter of horribly weak competition most games.

Right or wrong, playing that well on the big stage and winning the state title probably didn't hurt Aaron's chances the next year... even with a less rigorous schedule than Gardiner.

[warriors41]

Even though prior year results shouldn't be a part of Mr. Hockey, one area where the Ness/Gardiner vs. Leddy/Hanowski discussion has a difference is Ness was an absolute stand out player at the state tourney when Roseau won the AA title his junior year. Hanowski wasn't bad his junior year at state but his team lost right out of the gate and it probably didn't help his chances the next year when people questioned whether his output was a matter of horribly weak competition most games.

Right or wrong, playing that well on the big stage and winning the state title probably didn't hurt Aaron's chances the next year... even with a less rigorous schedule than Gardiner.

Absolutely, I'm sure that was in the mind of the voters. One thing to consider about Hanowski's state tournament his junior year was that while his team did lose in the first game, it was the toughest game the future A champ, STA, would have. They steam rolled everyone else after that. But it does hurt a player who only gets one game on tv which I think may have a role in this as well. Ness's senior year he had two games broadcast before the state tournament. I'm not sure how many Gardiner had to be honest, but the more you hear of one player compared to the other, the better your chances.

[The Exiled One]

This thread got really off topic, but with Elite League back in action and the early departures identified (10 by my last count), I figured it's about time to get it started up again.

For forwards, I'm all about Rau, Cameranesi, and Omdahl. For defensemen, Everson and Molenaar. Rau is the favorite.

[HockeyMN1]

Speaking of great years of HS hockey, it's hard to argue for Ness over Gardiner and then NOT argue for Hanowski over Leddy.

Not really... Ness was leading his team to an undefeated season at the time of the voting when Gardiner's team was out the of running. Also, Ness was considered the best player in Minnesota, just smaller than a typical NHL defenseman should be. Gardiner was a close second but didn't control games like Ness did.

Hanowksi was putting up monster numbers on a Class A team that occasionally would play little sisters of the poor, while Leddy was leading an EP that had been ravished by the defections of their top players and was a sophomore heavy team to the State Tournament. Also, the debate about who the best player that year was between Leddy and Budish and Budish was not in the equation.

While it is true that Ness was leading his team to an undefeated season, it was a very easy schedule is the regular season. You can't give praise to Ness and tear down Hanowski for the same thing. Roseau's regular season schedule is tougher a little bit, but is still basically a class A schedule. It is very hard for them to schedule quality AA opponents because of their location. Minnetonka I am sure was playing a much harder schedule as they are in a much tougher, deeper section and conference. Let's not forget either that Gardiner was having his first year of playing defense as he was moved from forward.

Anyway, I think both the Ness/Gardiner and Hanowski/Leddy races are still in the air.

If you think the Leddy/Hanowski race is still up in the air, then logically you must think that it is acceptable to use hindsight to determine who the winner should have been, correct? Okay, so Leddy's a frickin pro. 2 years out of high school he's making 6 figures and last year he was first line on the Gophs D. Hanowski slowly worked himself in with SCSU and is heading back to St. Cloud. Also Leddy played real teams every game. How is this race still "up in the air"?

[ACTUALFORMERPLAYER]

Not really... Ness was leading his team to an undefeated season at the time of the voting when Gardiner's team was out the of running. Also, Ness was considered the best player in Minnesota, just smaller than a typical NHL defenseman should be. Gardiner was a close second but didn't control games like Ness did.

Hanowksi was putting up monster numbers on a Class A team that occasionally would play little sisters of the poor, while Leddy was leading an EP that had been ravished by the defections of their top players and was a sophomore heavy team to the State Tournament. Also, the debate about who the best player that year was between Leddy and Budish and Budish was not in the equation.

While it is true that Ness was leading his team to an undefeated season, it was a very easy schedule is the regular season. You can't give praise to Ness and tear down Hanowski for the same thing. Roseau's regular season schedule is tougher a little bit, but is still basically a class A schedule. It is very hard for them to schedule quality AA opponents because of their location. Minnetonka I am sure was playing a much harder schedule as they are in a much tougher, deeper section and conference. Let's not forget either that Gardiner was having his first year of playing defense as he was moved from forward.

Anyway, I think both the Ness/Gardiner and Hanowski/Leddy races are still in the air.

If you think the Leddy/Hanowski race is still up in the air, then logically you must think that it is acceptable to use hindsight to determine who the winner should have been, correct? Okay, so Leddy's a frickin pro. 2 years out of high school he's making 6 figures and last year he was first line on the Gophs D. Hanowski slowly worked himself in with SCSU and is heading back to St. Cloud. Also Leddy played real teams every game. How is this race still "up in the air"?

Hanowski played on a better team last year. That allowed the Huskies to ease himinto the lineup. The Wild traded Leddy fearing the Gophers were going to destroy him. The Blackhawks hurried and signed him before John Hill could mess him up beyond repair........
I'm not saying Hanowski was better just your rationale has as much credibilty as mine, none. I will also say hindsight has nothing to do with Mr. Hockey. If we are using hindsight we should start debating the winners 20 years ago.

[FREDFLINTSTONE]

While it is true that Ness was leading his team to an undefeated season, it was a very easy schedule is the regular season. You can't give praise to Ness and tear down Hanowski for the same thing. Roseau's regular season schedule is tougher a little bit, but is still basically a class A schedule. It is very hard for them to schedule quality AA opponents because of their location. Minnetonka I am sure was playing a much harder schedule as they are in a much tougher, deeper section and conference. Let's not forget either that Gardiner was having his first year of playing defense as he was moved from forward.

Anyway, I think both the Ness/Gardiner and Hanowski/Leddy races are still in the air.

If you think the Leddy/Hanowski race is still up in the air, then logically you must think that it is acceptable to use hindsight to determine who the winner should have been, correct? Okay, so Leddy's a frickin pro. 2 years out of high school he's making 6 figures and last year he was first line on the Gophs D. Hanowski slowly worked himself in with SCSU and is heading back to St. Cloud. Also Leddy played real teams every game. How is this race still "up in the air"?

Hanowski played on a better team last year. That allowed the Huskies to ease himinto the lineup. The Wild traded Leddy fearing the Gophers were going to destroy him. The Blackhawks hurried and signed him before John Hill could mess him up beyond repair........
I'm not saying Hanowski was better just your rationale has as much credibilty as mine, none. I will also say hindsight has nothing to do with Mr. Hockey. If we are using hindsight we should start debating the winners 20 years ago.

Leddy was not traded because the Wild thought the Gophers were going to destroy him. Chicago did not sign him so Hill could not mess him up.

[The Exiled One]

So much for getting it back on topic!

[OpenMind]

In support of the call to get this thread back on topic, I'll suggest a dark horse candidate: Derek Frawley of Minnetonka. IMO, he was underutilized and maybe overshadowed a bit last year. Look for a break out year this year.

[High Flyer]

So much for getting it back on topic!

ok, I'll bite

2011 Mr. Minneosta will not be from EP

[FREDFLINTSTONE]

So much for getting it back on topic!

ok, I'll bite

2011 Mr. Minneosta will not be from EP

I know why your moniker is "High Flyer"

[High Flyer]

So much for getting it back on topic!

ok, I'll bite

2011 Mr. Minneosta will not be from EP

I know why your moniker is "High Flyer" :wink:

Going into the sr. season I think it's a dead heat between Everson-Edina and Rau-EP. Sure, a lot of people look at the numbers that Rau has put up and it is always tough to compare a defenseman to a forward when just looking at stats.

But right now I'm looking at who is the best player on the ice this year and who is having the greatest positive impact for their team. I watched the two last week very closely, and Everson would have my vote right now, though it’s early with a lot of hockey to be played.

I will also say there are a hand full of other seniors, who with a big year, could very well over take these two, especially if they don't perform to the level of everyone’s expectations:

My Mr. Hockey Nominations
Edina-Everson, Sit, Fogarty
EP-Rau, Molenar
STA-Fleming, Reid, Schroeder
HM-Bahe, Becker, Controneo
Wayzata-Cameriski
White Bear-Wahlin, Birkinbine
Mtka-Shutt
AHA-Labate
Virgina-Hendrickson
Roseau-Omdahl
BSM-Daily

[FREDFLINTSTONE]

ok, I'll bite

2011 Mr. Minneosta will not be from EP

I know why your moniker is "High Flyer"

Going into the sr. season I think it's a dead heat between Everson-Edina and Rau-EP. Sure, a lot of people look at the numbers that Rau has put up and it is always tough to compare a defenseman to a forward when just looking at stats.

But right now I'm looking at who is the best player on the ice this year and who is having the greatest positive impact for their team. I watched the two last week very closely, and Everson would have my vote right now, though it’s early with a lot of hockey to be played.

I will also say there are a hand full of other seniors, who with a big year, could very well over take these two, especially if they don't perform to the level of everyone’s expectations:

My Mr. Hockey Nominations
Edina-Everson, Sit, Fogarty
EP-Rau, Molenar
STA-Fleming, Reid, Schroeder
HM-Bahe, Becker, Controneo
Wayzata-Cameriski
White Bear-Wahlin, Birkinbine
Mtka-Shutt
AHA-Labate
Virgina-Hendrickson
Roseau-Omdahl
BSM-Daily
WBL-Wahlin, Birkinbine

Get real. Everson is good, but no way Mr. Hockey. Did any of the players you have listed lead their team in scoring the past 2 years?

[The Exiled One]

My Mr. Hockey Nominations
Edina-Everson, Sit, Fogarty
EP-Rau, Molenar
STA-Fleming, Reid, Schroeder
HM-Bahe, Becker, Controneo
Wayzata-Cameriski
White Bear-Wahlin, Birkinbine
Mtka-Shutt
AHA-Labate
Virgina-Hendrickson
Roseau-Omdahl
BSM-Daily
WBL-Wahlin, Birkinbine

Wahlin and Birkinbine have a better chance of winning because they play on two teams... White Bear and WBL.

As an SCSU fan, I'd love for Hendrickson to be in the running. But let's face it, he's been getting worse since he committed last Thanksgiving. He's not off to a great start in the Elite League, I'm hoping he can step it up.