Thoughts on Duluth East?

[elliott70]

Most people would say Randolph is very capable of being a jerk.
Most would say Duluth East (like a lot of MN HS hockey programs) do some sort of 'recruiting'.

Can Randolph coach hockey?
Criteria - winning - yeah, the guy can win.

So that is that....

Can we now talk about Duluth East hockey...
their team and players?

[elliott70]

My opinion

Toninato will play D1 hockey...
Olson, I think so...
Randolph will play hockey after HS...
Where? I think that depends on him and how hard he works at it.

[elliott70]

And, yes, I do have a built in bias to Toninato.

[keepyourheadup]

Randolph is a stretch to play in college, his skating better improve.

[elliott70]

Randolph is a stretch to play in college, his skating better improve.

I am not saying college D1 or 3?
But he will play juniors somewhere.

[keepyourheadup]

agreed

[DuluthHockeyBoy]

A few scattered thoughts.

-History question that largely predates me: how much credit does Randolph deserve for building up the East youth program? Isn't he in large part responsible for taking command of it and setting it up as a feeder program for the high school? Of course, this does not necessarily mean he is a great coach. Building a program and then managing it once it's been built are two very different things that take very different talents. It is possible to be good at one and struggle with the other. But we should give credit where credit is due.

-My observation on East's past eight or so seasons: rarely do the Hounds "meet expectations" relative to their talent level. Either they overachieve (05, the past two years), or they crash and burn with an ugly upset loss (06-09).

-7AA is not as strong a section as the West Metro sections, but most years it is in the upper half in the state in terms of difficulty. It is just about always harder than sections 1, 3, 4, and 8 (or the equivalents of those sections before realignment). Historical computerized rankings confirm this.

-The Jake Randolph fixation amuses me. My observation on watching Jake: there are advantages to being a coach's son that have nothing to do with nepotism. He may not have the potential of an Olson or a Toninato, but one can tell that he knows how to play within the East system as well as anyone. When scouts or people looking towards the next level opine on the East top line, they admire players like Olson. When other high school players or coaches who are fixated on the HS game look at the line, they pick out Randolph. Jake Randolph was raised to play hockey in the East system, and he is a great complimentary player on a line with two other strong forwards. (It was the same way his sophomore year when he had different linemates.) Will he be able to translate those skills to the next level? I don't know. But I think it's a mistake to say he is merely riding on the coattails of better players. He plays his role in the system as well as anyone, and that lets the other players elevate their game.

-It'd be interesting to take an objective look at the careers of the players who left East early and see how they all turned out.

Some good random thoughts. Agree with your assessment of Jake and his role- I think he is a smart player and is a master of the DE system. And I am sure he will have some success beyond HS. I just think he gets a bit more attention than is warranted. I don't agree that HS coaches and players who look at the line pick him out- I think they respect his smarts and ability to play the system, but see Olson as the strongest talent.

I don't know much about the history of the DE youth program- I just know what I have seen the last 15 years or so, and he has not been instrumental other than his camps (which are excellent for young kids). But they are not open to all kids, and are not affiliated with DE Youth hockey ago.

While I think there have been a couple great years with several top teams in it over the last 15 years- I don't think section 7 has been too tough to get out of for a school their size and a feeder program like they have. The computer may say they are in the top half, but most years there is only 1 team to get by, and DE is typically the stronger team- on paper. Not saying there have not been some great GR and Cloquet teams- but they don't have the same numbers or depth. They beat DE because they know how to play against their system- they also usually have a upperclassmen group who leads the team. Seniors in a section game looking down the bench at their buddies they have grown up playing with, have something to play for and can often over-achieve. Something Mike has missed in the interest of developing future talent for the DE program. Just not important to him (despite what he says on TV), and has not helped him.

Not sure I understand how the team the last 2 years has over-achieved- team has been made up of Bantam kids and Bantam teams that were top ranked teams in the state.......haven't lost many kids to Marshall, and I don't think section 7 has a team in it (other than DE) with a win against a top 10 team in state the last two years. Pretty easy path to state for a team with plenty of talent and depth.

[karl(east)]

Some good random thoughts. Agree with your assessment of Jake and his role- I think he is a smart player and is a master of the DE system. And I am sure he will have some success beyond HS. I just think he gets a bit more attention than is warranted. I don't agree that HS coaches and players who look at the line pick him out- I think they respect his smarts and ability to play the system, but see Olson as the strongest talent.

I don't know much about the history of the DE youth program- I just know what I have seen the last 15 years or so, and he has not been instrumental other than his camps (which are excellent for young kids). But they are not open to all kids, and are not affiliated with DE Youth hockey ago.

While I think there have been a couple great years with several top teams in it over the last 15 years- I don't think section 7 has been too tough to get out of for a school their size and a feeder program like they have. The computer may say they are in the top half, but most years there is only 1 team to get by, and DE is typically the stronger team- on paper. Not saying there have not been some great GR and Cloquet teams- but they don't have the same numbers or depth. They beat DE because they know how to play against their system- they also usually have a upperclassmen group who leads the team. Seniors in a section game looking down the bench at their buddies they have grown up playing with, have something to play for and can often over-achieve. Something Mike has missed in the interest of developing future talent for the DE program. Just not important to him (despite what he says on TV), and has not helped him.

Not sure I understand how the team the last 2 years has over-achieved- team has been made up of Bantam kids and Bantam teams that were top ranked teams in the state.......haven't lost many kids to Marshall, and I don't think section 7 has a team in it (other than DE) with a win against a top 10 team in state the last two years. Pretty easy path to state for a team with plenty of talent and depth.

Good discussion.

On the first point, I'm not saying all HS coaches and players think Jake Randolph is better; it's just something I've observed in interviews of other people commenting on the East team.

Anyone know when the East youth program broke off from the rest of the city? I believe Randolph was responsible for that, though I can't be sure. Either way, it's pretty easy to draw a line between East hockey pre-Randolph (1 state tourney berth between 1965 and his hiring in 1988, and they were in a very, very weak section for much of that time) and post-Randolph (13 berths in 22 years, plus the trip in Wentworth's year). And it isn't as if there was some demographic explosion in Duluth to explain this--they may be the only strong program in this state to ever arise in a city with a stagnant/shrinking population. The youth coaches might have a decent amount of freedom, but it's clear where they're ultimate loyalties lie. (Just ask some of the Marshall people who complain about pro-East favoritism...) Though I will defer to people with more knowledge of how East's dramatic rise came about, since I was not around for it.

I'm not in Duluth anymore, and I probably spend as much time watching programs like Edina and Eden Prairie these days as I do watching my alma mater. Distance has shown me what a unique program East is--they're a non-metro team built in the model of an elite metro program, and they're doing it with a fraction of the resources of some of the metro programs. They have an edge in depth against Grand Rapids and Cloquet, but definitely don't compared to the giant metro programs. (Of which Elk River is one.)

Not many people favored East to get out of the section 2 years ago, nor did many think they'd make the state final last year. Neither group's senior class has been incredibly strong--far weaker than the other top teams, I'd say--yet they've done quite well. In the weekly rankings I do on here, I got a fair amount of crap for putting East relatively high each of the past two seasons. Maybe I'm just dealing with Metro-area people who aren't aware of the talent coming out of the East program, but their success has surprised a number of observers, some of whom are very aware of the success at the youth level. That may not be dramatic overachievement, but I was very pleased with the end results both years, and I think I have pretty high standards.

The cutting seniors issue has been around for a while, though I don't think Randolph operates any differently than most coaches of large metro programs. (The book "Blades of Glory" has a good chapter on Saterdalen's dealings with cutting seniors that illustrates this.) We can speculate on how that affects team performance, though it's hard to arrive at anything concrete--I think people will see what they want to see.

There's a vicious cycle that affects any program with a lot of talent:
1. Deep team relies on only upperclassmen to have a ton of success (East in the mid-90s)
2. Younger players from the team start leaving for other schools or opportunities where they'll get more playing time (East late 90s/early 00s)
3. Coach will start playing younger players so they don't leave his program, at the possible expense of upperclassmen (early 00s)
4. Talented young players start leaving early for NTDP or juniors, leaving team with thin senior classes (mid-late 00s)

Has any coach figured out how to escape that? I'm not sure. But I don't think this problem afflicts Cloquet or Grand Rapids--the programs don't have that initial burst of depth, plus community loyalty is a lot stronger in small towns.

If we want to further explain some of the East disappointments over the past decade, I would give Dave Esse an awful lot of credit--he gets more out of less than any other coach I've seen.

Trivial detail: Rapids did beat Edina last year, a definite top-10 team.

[northernhockey13]

Well, now that we've all met and played nice-nice, let's get back to task: "How will East be in 2012?

Now there's a good idea.

With 7 returning forwards and 3 returning defensemen, there won't be many open spots for regular shifts on this year's Hounds team. There will be especially few opportunities for sophomores, though the incoming bantam group is not as good as the last few. The goalie competition intrigues me, and I expect both players will be given a shot. Ideally competing against one another will only raise their level of play and not be a source of friction.

The top line gets all of the attention, but the only East forward who made the national Advanced Camp is not on that line--I'm curious to see what sort of year the 2nd line will have. If they have a breakout year like the current first line did last year, they'll be in great shape.

I heard Kyle Campion will step in at Forward for one spot and Jack Forbort on the other. Also, Bealieau and Beau Hughes will step in at Defense. Rumor on the street is that Dylan Parker has the edge for goaltending too.

[Hounds19]

Well, now that we've all met and played nice-nice, let's get back to task: "How will East be in 2012?

Now there's a good idea.

With 7 returning forwards and 3 returning defensemen, there won't be many open spots for regular shifts on this year's Hounds team. There will be especially few opportunities for sophomores, though the incoming bantam group is not as good as the last few. The goalie competition intrigues me, and I expect both players will be given a shot. Ideally competing against one another will only raise their level of play and not be a source of friction.

The top line gets all of the attention, but the only East forward who made the national Advanced Camp is not on that line--I'm curious to see what sort of year the 2nd line will have. If they have a breakout year like the current first line did last year, they'll be in great shape.

I heard Kyle Campion will step in at Forward for one spot and Jack Forbort on the other. Also, Bealieau and Beau Hughes will step in at Defense. Rumor on the street is that Dylan Parker has the edge for goaltending too.

Duluth east will beat minnetonka for the title, 5-2

[O-townClown]

Heavy is the head that wears the crown. After the season they had with Gaarder, Budish, and Everson as sophomores, Edina was the favorite for the next two seasons, adding Anders Lee along the way. They lost games at the wrong time, which pleased many. Of course, their title came the season following their departure!

Best of luck to Duluth East. We'll see how they handle being the frontrunner.

[east hockey]

Heavy is the head that wears the crown. After the season they had with Gaarder, Budish, and Everson as sophomores, Edina was the favorite for the next two seasons, adding Anders Lee along the way. They lost games at the wrong time, which pleased many. Of course, their title came the season following their departure!

Best of luck to Duluth East. We'll see how they handle being the frontrunner.

I would prefer to have Eagan be the frontrunner.

Lee

[allstatebenders]

Well, now that we've all met and played nice-nice, let's get back to task: "How will East be in 2012?

Now there's a good idea.

With 7 returning forwards and 3 returning defensemen, there won't be many open spots for regular shifts on this year's Hounds team. There will be especially few opportunities for sophomores, though the incoming bantam group is not as good as the last few. The goalie competition intrigues me, and I expect both players will be given a shot. Ideally competing against one another will only raise their level of play and not be a source of friction.

The top line gets all of the attention, but the only East forward who made the national Advanced Camp is not on that line--I'm curious to see what sort of year the 2nd line will have. If they have a breakout year like the current first line did last year, they'll be in great shape.

I heard Kyle Campion will step in at Forward for one spot and Jack Forbort on the other. Also, Bealieau and Beau Hughes will step in at Defense. Rumor on the street is that Dylan Parker has the edge for goaltending too.

My guess is they will start Skoog and if he starts to do bad, they will play Parker. They could probably even might get equal playing time this year, and Randolph will play the hottest goalie in Sections.

[BodyShots]

Now there's a good idea.

With 7 returning forwards and 3 returning defensemen, there won't be many open spots for regular shifts on this year's Hounds team. There will be especially few opportunities for sophomores, though the incoming bantam group is not as good as the last few. The goalie competition intrigues me, and I expect both players will be given a shot. Ideally competing against one another will only raise their level of play and not be a source of friction.

The top line gets all of the attention, but the only East forward who made the national Advanced Camp is not on that line--I'm curious to see what sort of year the 2nd line will have. If they have a breakout year like the current first line did last year, they'll be in great shape.

I heard Kyle Campion will step in at Forward for one spot and Jack Forbort on the other. Also, Bealieau and Beau Hughes will step in at Defense. Rumor on the street is that Dylan Parker has the edge for goaltending too.

My guess is they will start Skoog and if he starts to do bad, they will play Parker. They could probably even might get equal playing time this year, and Randolph will play the hottest goalie in Sections.

It will be tough to determine who is hot when they will only see a handful of shots each game.

[old goalie85]

I agree !!!!

[northwoods oldtimer]

Now there's a good idea.

With 7 returning forwards and 3 returning defensemen, there won't be many open spots for regular shifts on this year's Hounds team. There will be especially few opportunities for sophomores, though the incoming bantam group is not as good as the last few. The goalie competition intrigues me, and I expect both players will be given a shot. Ideally competing against one another will only raise their level of play and not be a source of friction.

The top line gets all of the attention, but the only East forward who made the national Advanced Camp is not on that line--I'm curious to see what sort of year the 2nd line will have. If they have a breakout year like the current first line did last year, they'll be in great shape.

I heard Kyle Campion will step in at Forward for one spot and Jack Forbort on the other. Also, Bealieau and Beau Hughes will step in at Defense. Rumor on the street is that Dylan Parker has the edge for goaltending too.

Duluth east will beat minnetonka for the title, 5-2

[old goalie85]

How did the goalie situation shake out???????

[stpaul]

The roster posted at the MSHSL website has Dylan Parker and Paige Skoog as the varsity goalies.

[east hockey]

The roster posted at the MSHSL website has Dylan Parker and Paige Skoog as the varsity goalies.

Which was expected, only question now being "who will start?". I don't think either has a clear advantage, although Parker may have the edge due to his play in the Elite leagues.

Lee

[StreetStix]

From what I hear, Skoog is proving somewhat inconsistent and so Parker is currently the favorite - of course that's all hearsay from someone in the program. Also, someone mentioned it earlier, but look out for Beaulieu this year, the kid could go nuts if given the chance. Great talent and depth in the team, looking forward to the season.

[old goalie85]

Goalie situation still the same ??

[east hockey]

Goalie situation still the same ??

Might know more Thursday and Saturday when they play Cambridge and Wayzata.

Lee

[The X]

I heard Kyle Campion will step in at Forward for one spot and Jack Forbort on the other. Also, Bealieau and Beau Hughes will step in at Defense. Rumor on the street is that Dylan Parker has the edge for goaltending too.

Duluth east will beat minnetonka for the title, 5-2

Now thats some funny stuff right there, Northwoods and his popcorn! Should be a great year in section 7 this year for sure. Anyone know how the Rapids goalie situation is shaking out?

[puckhead58]

What "goalie situation" in Grand Rapids?

[Redlight]

Nice squad this year. My guess is that we will see East in St. Paul in March and playing a late game on Saturday! Go Hounds.