Private Schools in A????

[Northern Defender]

I don't want to take anything away from anything you said here, but there have been 7 private schools make it (one is now AA) and 5 public. And there have been 4 private champs (one is now AA) and 2 public.

Here are my results as far as private schools in the A championship?
2000 - Breck (Champions)
2001 - Benilde (Champions) Rochester Lourdes
2002 - Totino Grace (Champions)
2003 - none
2004 - Breck (Champions)
2005 - Totino Grace
2006 - St. Thomas Academy (Champions) Duluth Marhall
2007 - Duluth Marshall
2008 - St Thomas Academy (Champions) Duluth Marshall
2009 - Breck (Champions)
2010 - Breck (Champions)
2011 - St Thomas Academy (Champions)

2007 Hermantown won the Class A Championship....beating Duluth Marshall

[RangeHockeyFan1817]

I don't want to take anything away from anything you said here, but there have been 7 private schools make it (one is now AA) and 5 public. And there have been 4 private champs (one is now AA) and 2 public.

Here are my results as far as private schools in the A championship?
2000 - Breck (Champions)
2001 - Benilde (Champions) Rochester Lourdes
2002 - Totino Grace (Champions)
2003 - none
2004 - Breck (Champions)
2005 - Totino Grace
2006 - St. Thomas Academy (Champions) Duluth Marhall
2007 - Duluth Marshall
2008 - St Thomas Academy (Champions) Duluth Marshall
2009 - Breck (Champions)
2010 - Breck (Champions)
2011 - St Thomas Academy (Champions)

2007 Hermantown won the Class A Championship....beating Duluth Marshall

correct, hermantown did win in 2007, he was only listing privates that made it to the championship, not that won

[MHGr8ness]

People always think that students at private high schools leave their public school program, when in reality, they may have never gone to a public school. For example, the Wayzata student section chanted "traitor" at BSM's Grant Besse. Besse went to private school in junior high (and maybe before that, I'm not sure) and also had a brother who graduated from BSM. Not every private school player is a scholarship seeking mercenary.

This is the case for many who end up at private high schools. But since they are in the city's hockey program, people want to complain they are abandoning their friends by not attending the city's school and playing on that team. Or something to that affect.

And they ignore the idea that the program didn't do enough to keep them. I know, backwards thinking, but somehow logic often gets flipped around when talking about high school hockey

They are abandoning them aren't they? What exactly are they supposed to do to keep them?

[HShockeywatcher]

I don't want to take anything away from anything you said here, but there have been 7 private schools make it (one is now AA) and 5 public. And there have been 4 private champs (one is now AA) and 2 public.

Here are my results as far as private schools in the A championship?
2000 - Breck (Champions)
2001 - Benilde (Champions) Rochester Lourdes
2002 - Totino Grace (Champions)
2003 - none
2004 - Breck (Champions)
2005 - Totino Grace
2006 - St. Thomas Academy (Champions) Duluth Marhall
2007 - Duluth Marshall
2008 - St Thomas Academy (Champions) Duluth Marshall
2009 - Breck (Champions)
2010 - Breck (Champions)
2011 - St Thomas Academy (Champions)

Ha, guess I was one too high Thanks for pointing that out.
(1) Breck, (2) Benilde, (3) Lourdes, (4) Totino, (5) St Thomas, (6) Duluth Marshall.
Okay, so 5 public, 6 private (one that is currently AA).
Thanks for helping my point

They are abandoning them aren't they? What exactly are they supposed to do to keep them?

What are they abandoning? They are going to a different school. Why do they owe anything to the hockey team they played for? The youth communities' boundaries are similar to the high school ones, but they are not the same program.

It is not my job to figure that out. But if you are losing players regularly, I would think it would be a good idea to figure it out.

[sachishi4]

The reason I brought up this subject was to read the different sides of the arguement.

A couple of interesting points I noticed when doing a little research. In the class A championship game since 2000, 14 of the 24 teams have been private. 9 of the 12 champions have been private. Also looking at how some of the more well known private A teams have done against the better teams in AA during the regular season, and realizing they don't fare very well for the most part. So my point is that they are dominating the A state tournament. One guy said only 3-4 teams are private each year? Are you aware that only 8 teams get in.

Now I don't blame the kids in this situation. It's not their choice as to whether the schools play A or AA. But they do have a choice in the matter as to where they go to school. They might have played Mites, Squirts, and Pee Wees for Irondale for example, and get sick of getting their butts kicked, and decide to go to Totino. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. And for a lot of players playing in College or Pros, that only happened because they chose to attend a A private school rather than a lousy AA team.

Now I suppose you can't move every private school up to AA, Legacy Academy for example would have to play a Bantam schedule to be competitive. So it's not fair to all, but it takes away from the original idea of the two classes. I'd love to see them go back to one class. But I'm sure we're closer to seeing three classes than we are one. I guess given the choice as a adminstrator or coach for some of these successful A private schools, like Breck, STA, Totino, etc. I'd WANT to move up to AA and compete against the best year in and year out. That's why I give a school like Benilde credit for CHOOSING that A wasn't enough for them, and they'd prefer to compete against the best.

And from a fans point of view, I'd love to see the best 8 teams in the State in the AA tournament each year. Obviously that won't happen due to upsets, and section 1AA getting a team in each year. I enjoy watching the A tournament each year, and will continue to do so. I just think the MNHSL is being hypocritical, sure they have more kids competing in the state tournament than before, and more teams have an oppurtunity to win a state championship. But I don't think this is what they intended, and I don't think it solved any problems.

People always think that students at private high schools leave their public school program, when in reality, they may have never gone to a public school. For example, the Wayzata student section chanted "traitor" at BSM's Grant Besse. Besse went to private school in junior high (and maybe before that, I'm not sure) and also had a brother who graduated from BSM. Not every private school player is a scholarship seeking mercenary.

He wore a Wayzata jersey. He skated on their ice. He played with those kids.

he skated for their city association, not their high school. He has no obligation or need to go to the public school. I hear this same problem with kids that go to HM from WBL every year. They go to private schools from k-8 and then to HM and they get blasted for not staying loyal. Loyal to who? The high school doesn't own them. Get off your high horse.

[warriors41]

People always think that students at private high schools leave their public school program, when in reality, they may have never gone to a public school. For example, the Wayzata student section chanted "traitor" at BSM's Grant Besse. Besse went to private school in junior high (and maybe before that, I'm not sure) and also had a brother who graduated from BSM. Not every private school player is a scholarship seeking mercenary.

This is the case for many who end up at private high schools. But since they are in the city's hockey program, people want to complain they are abandoning their friends by not attending the city's school and playing on that team. Or something to that affect.

And they ignore the idea that the program didn't do enough to keep them. I know, backwards thinking, but somehow logic often gets flipped around when talking about high school hockey

They are abandoning them aren't they? What exactly are they supposed to do to keep them?

I think the point that is being made is that it may have been decided by the kid's parents by the time he was 5 years old that the player would be attending private school when he gets to that age. It's not like he just packs his bags at 14 and gives all of his teammates a middle finger.

[HShockeywatcher]

This is the case for many who end up at private high schools. But since they are in the city's hockey program, people want to complain they are abandoning their friends by not attending the city's school and playing on that team. Or something to that affect.

And they ignore the idea that the program didn't do enough to keep them. I know, backwards thinking, but somehow logic often gets flipped around when talking about high school hockey

They are abandoning them aren't they? What exactly are they supposed to do to keep them?

I think the point that is being made is that it may have been decided by the kid's parents by the time he was 5 years old that the player would be attending private school when he gets to that age. It's not like he just packs his bags at 14 and gives all of his teammates a middle finger.

That is the point for some students. Some do attend private schools their whole life, yes, but not all. There are also some for sure that make the decision once they get to high school, or soon before. We all know that playing in a system with a set group of kids for your whole like is a huge advantage anyone should have over a group of players just thrown together.

Look at the recent discussion about SSM. Are they the best individual players in MN? No, they are amazing at their system. It is a clear advantage.

So, if it is such an advantage from a hockey perspective, why are they leaving? If you have a business and you see a bunch of employees leaving for another business, what do you do? Just call them traitors and whine? Doubt it, but that's what the hockey community does.

I'm not giving an answer; it's a complicated issue. Just don't agree with the general thought process.

[Red Ice]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AGAIN I SAY

1 class 16 team State High School Hockey Tournement

Only know about section 8 and section 7, but it would be awesome up here.

The 8 section tourney winners are in and seeded 1-8. The section tourneys would still be very important.

All section tourney runner-ups host a 1 game play-in game. The 8 opponents are from teams that lost out earlier, they take the highest ranked 8 teams, section does not matter you could have multiple teams from 1 section. I don't know how these matchups would be made but distance would be a main factor.

8 2nd chance qualifiers seeded 9-16.

Great section tournements and a great state tourney.

Class size does not matter, private vs public does not matter all are welcome.

Go back to Tier I Tier II if you want weaker teams at state.

[iceguy2]

There are a lot of private schools that public schools don't lose sleep over. There are a lot of factors into winning teams besides being private. Sometimes its coaching, having a lot of talent move up from districts, or sometimes its just having an exceptional player come into the program that makes the whole team perform better. Look at last year's state tournament. No cake walk for anyone but great excitement for the sport of hockey.

[northwoods oldtimer]

Red Ice love the format. Makes WAY too much sense for MSHSL to even consider.
Possible exception for MSHSL to that is the fact MSHSL gains substantial profits with the extra games and add profits to the cash cow that is the Boys State High School Tournament!!

[MHGr8ness]

I don't want to take anything away from anything you said here, but there have been 7 private schools make it (one is now AA) and 5 public. And there have been 4 private champs (one is now AA) and 2 public.

Here are my results as far as private schools in the A championship?
2000 - Breck (Champions)
2001 - Benilde (Champions) Rochester Lourdes
2002 - Totino Grace (Champions)
2003 - none
2004 - Breck (Champions)
2005 - Totino Grace
2006 - St. Thomas Academy (Champions) Duluth Marhall
2007 - Duluth Marshall
2008 - St Thomas Academy (Champions) Duluth Marshall
2009 - Breck (Champions)
2010 - Breck (Champions)
2011 - St Thomas Academy (Champions)

Ha, guess I was one too high Thanks for pointing that out.
(1) Breck, (2) Benilde, (3) Lourdes, (4) Totino, (5) St Thomas, (6) Duluth Marshall.
Okay, so 5 public, 6 private (one that is currently AA).
Thanks for helping my point

They are abandoning them aren't they? What exactly are they supposed to do to keep them?

What are they abandoning? They are going to a different school. Why do they owe anything to the hockey team they played for? The youth communities' boundaries are similar to the high school ones, but they are not the same program.

It is not my job to figure that out. But if you are losing players regularly, I would think it would be a good idea to figure it out.

Their friends and teammates obviously. They maybe don't "owe" anything, but it's nice to see people stay loyal to the program that got them started and won't just sellout for a cheap wins.

[MHGr8ness]

People always think that students at private high schools leave their public school program, when in reality, they may have never gone to a public school. For example, the Wayzata student section chanted "traitor" at BSM's Grant Besse. Besse went to private school in junior high (and maybe before that, I'm not sure) and also had a brother who graduated from BSM. Not every private school player is a scholarship seeking mercenary.

He wore a Wayzata jersey. He skated on their ice. He played with those kids.

he skated for their city association, not their high school. He has no obligation or need to go to the public school. I hear this same problem with kids that go to HM from WBL every year. They go to private schools from k-8 and then to HM and they get blasted for not staying loyal. Loyal to who? The high school doesn't own them. Get off your high horse.

Loyal to their friends and teammates. Yes, their association no crap, but still same jersey, team name, ice, and teammates... like I said.

[MHGr8ness]

They are abandoning them aren't they? What exactly are they supposed to do to keep them?

I think the point that is being made is that it may have been decided by the kid's parents by the time he was 5 years old that the player would be attending private school when he gets to that age. It's not like he just packs his bags at 14 and gives all of his teammates a middle finger.

That is the point for some students. Some do attend private schools their whole life, yes, but not all. There are also some for sure that make the decision once they get to high school, or soon before. We all know that playing in a system with a set group of kids for your whole like is a huge advantage anyone should have over a group of players just thrown together.

Look at the recent discussion about SSM. Are they the best individual players in MN? No, they are amazing at their system. It is a clear advantage.

So, if it is such an advantage from a hockey perspective, why are they leaving? If you have a business and you see a bunch of employees leaving for another business, what do you do? Just call them traitors and whine? Doubt it, but that's what the hockey community does.

I'm not giving an answer; it's a complicated issue. Just don't agree with the general thought process.

Leave it to a private school to bring up a metaphor involving money.

[DubCHAGuy]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AGAIN I SAY

1 class 16 team State High School Hockey Tournement

Only know about section 8 and section 7, but it would be awesome up here.

The 8 section tourney winners are in and seeded 1-8. The section tourneys would still be very important.

All section tourney runner-ups host a 1 game play-in game. The 8 opponents are from teams that lost out earlier, they take the highest ranked 8 teams, section does not matter you could have multiple teams from 1 section. I don't know how these matchups would be made but distance would be a main factor.

8 2nd chance qualifiers seeded 9-16.

Great section tournements and a great state tourney.

Class size does not matter, private vs public does not matter all are welcome.

Go back to Tier I Tier II if you want weaker teams at state.

That would just favor the 2nd Tier AA schools who couldn't beat their section rivals, and hurt the small schools even more. Obviously there would be upsets, but your state tournament this year could end up looking something like this:

1 Minnetonka vs. 16 Lakeville North
8 Moorhead vs. 9 Eden Prairie

4 Maple Grove vs. 13 Grand Rapids
5 Edina vs. 12 Hermantown

2 Duluth East vs. 15 Brainerd
7 Hill-Murray vs. 10 St. Thomas

3 Eagan vs. 14 Apple Valley
6 Lakeville South vs. 11 Burnsville

[bubblehockey27]

I looked into how aforementioned schools did against AA competition this year, and this is what I found out...(sorry if numbers aren't "spot on", I did a quick check and noted every AA school I could think of, might have missed one or two)

Breck (W/L) vs. AA schools= 6-1
Blake vs. AA schools= 4-5
Totino-Grace vs. AA schools= 5-3
St. Thomas vs. AA schools= 8-4
Duluth Marshall vs. AA schools= 1-2
St. Cloud Cath. vs. AA schools= 0-1
Roch. Lourdes vs. AA schools= 2-1

Total vs. AA schools= 26-17

If you were to take away the schools that probably should be in class A, but can't be due to enrollment size (Cooper, Irondale, St. Paul Johnson/Como, etc.) that win column gets smaller. IMO, in the grand scale of things, most of those teams belong in class A.

[almostashappy]

Only know about section 8 and section 7, but it would be awesome up here.

The 8 section tourney winners are in and seeded 1-8. The section tourneys would still be very important.

All section tourney runner-ups host a 1 game play-in game. The 8 opponents are from teams that lost out earlier, they take the highest ranked 8 teams, section does not matter you could have multiple teams from 1 section. I don't know how these matchups would be made but distance would be a main factor.

We have enough fun talking about rankings now...can you imagine how contentious it would be if a Top 10 or Top 25 ranking actually mattered? A BCS-style second chance system based on someone's ranking is a non-starter, in my opinion. Win to get in.

[almostashappy]

That would just favor the 2nd Tier AA schools who couldn't beat their section rivals, and hurt the small schools even more. Obviously there would be upsets, but your state tournament this year could end up looking something like this:

1 Minnetonka vs. 16 Lakeville North
8 Moorhead vs. 9 Eden Prairie

4 Maple Grove vs. 13 Grand Rapids
5 Edina vs. 12 Hermantown

2 Duluth East vs. 15 Brainerd
7 Hill-Murray vs. 10 St. Thomas

3 Eagan vs. 14 Apple Valley
6 Lakeville South vs. 11 Burnsville

In red's proposal, the Section runner-ups would have a play-in game against the next 8 highest ranked teams, regardless of section. So you wouldn't expect to see Brainerd or AV or "the other Lakeville" this year...what you would expect to see year after year is a group of 16 that is half (or nearly-half) West Metro teams. And unless MSHSL is going to bring all 16 teams to St. Paul (doubtful), the 8AA champion would have to beat one of those metro teams just to get to "State".

Although, maybe the MSHSL would like the idea of a 16-team tournament in St. Paul. More revenue for them...the ticket packages would be the equivalent of forcing people to purchase all of the tickets for both the A and AA tourneys.

[HShockeywatcher]

I think the point that is being made is that it may have been decided by the kid's parents by the time he was 5 years old that the player would be attending private school when he gets to that age. It's not like he just packs his bags at 14 and gives all of his teammates a middle finger.

That is the point for some students. Some do attend private schools their whole life, yes, but not all. There are also some for sure that make the decision once they get to high school, or soon before. We all know that playing in a system with a set group of kids for your whole like is a huge advantage anyone should have over a group of players just thrown together.

Look at the recent discussion about SSM. Are they the best individual players in MN? No, they are amazing at their system. It is a clear advantage.

So, if it is such an advantage from a hockey perspective, why are they leaving? If you have a business and you see a bunch of employees leaving for another business, what do you do? Just call them traitors and whine? Doubt it, but that's what the hockey community does.

I'm not giving an answer; it's a complicated issue. Just don't agree with the general thought process.

Leave it to a private school to bring up a metaphor involving money.

Apparently I'm a school now

[passthepuck2me]

"...The state high school league created the tiers, and then the two classes to give more students an oppurtinuty for a State Championship, But the current state A rankings has 7 private schools in the top 10. I think it's an embarrasment for these schools to play weaker competition and be proud of it.

Every private school should have to play in AA, due to the unfair advantage they have, and give A back to the kids who really do deserve it.[/quote]>>>"

I'm with you until you think every private school has an advantage. I do agree that when a team, such as Breck, wins 10 or more games by more than 5 points IN HOCKEY, the school's board should be asking the AD what the heck he thinks he's accomplishing for his players' development as well as the school's brand.

Here's a question, If a school opts up to AA, can they do it for only one sport or do all the sports the school supports have to then play at AA.

[KICKED-IN-THE-PRIVATES]

How about we put all the "Metro" Private schools in the same section, and let them stay in Class A. Leave SCC, Lourdes, Marshall (outstate privates) where they are at. They make their sections better..... And gives metro area public A schools more of a chance...

[Rich Clarke]

The better class A teams would likely be seeded in the top five if they were in class AA sections. St. Thomas would likely be second in section 3AA, and Breck would be similar to Benilde in 6AA. These teams would be competetive in AA, but would just be solid AA teams. Maybe that should be enough for them, like it is for Benilde. And maybe the possibility of following in the footsteps of Hill and Holy Angels should drive them more than playing in a tournament where most of their better competition comes from other privates.

But my serious question is what Class A would look like without them. Would it not be teams like Hermantown and Warroad dominating the way Eden Prairie does in football? (not winning every year, but enough to be far more dominant than any MN hockey program). I wonder how many sections could produce a legitimate team that could compete with the top 2 teams each year. I would love to see the depth in class A as exists in AA (even the Lakeville teams that often finish in the middle of the South Suburban can at least play a decent game even if they aren't winning). Wouldn't you see a lot more 9-1 type games until the final? I admit I don't know the class A teams well enough, so I'm asking. Few Class A privates seem to knock off the better A programs, as the section eight teams don't face privates in their section, and Hermantown has done well despite Duluth Marshall. Even Mahtomedi beat St. Thomas in the last year or two as I recall. I would just hate to see one or two programs ripping past everyone else each year (even if the 1-2 programs was different every year).

The solution I've heard is to keep all A teams in Class A, but that would really take away a lot of tradition from the AA tournament. I hear northern fans complaining as it is that they are only in two sections, which of course is the inevitable result of having most northern teams in class A already. If Roseau, Bemidji, and Grand Rapids were forced to stay down, Moorhead and Duluth East would be playing more metro teams in sectionals and one could see a stretch where the northernmost teams at state were Elk River and Andover (assuming they were placed in different sections, of course).

Forcing the privates to play in a private tournament sucked in the 60s and 70s when the state champion never really knew it it was the best team in the state. At least with Hill Murray and Benilde in the state tournament, the MSHSL tourney has more clout than it did before 1975.

Finally, it's not like the top A privates are competing with the top AA programs. St. Thomas lost both games to Hill Murray, as well as Edina and Duluth East. If they were in AA, they likely would be ranked between 10-15--nothing to sneeze at, but they wouldn't be at the highest level.

Perhaps being a top 20 or so program in AA should be what those teams aspire to. I agree with everyone who would like to see them voluntarily opt up. But I think that any mandated change may create more problems than it would solve.

[MHGr8ness]

That is the point for some students. Some do attend private schools their whole life, yes, but not all. There are also some for sure that make the decision once they get to high school, or soon before. We all know that playing in a system with a set group of kids for your whole like is a huge advantage anyone should have over a group of players just thrown together.

Look at the recent discussion about SSM. Are they the best individual players in MN? No, they are amazing at their system. It is a clear advantage.

So, if it is such an advantage from a hockey perspective, why are they leaving? If you have a business and you see a bunch of employees leaving for another business, what do you do? Just call them traitors and whine? Doubt it, but that's what the hockey community does.

I'm not giving an answer; it's a complicated issue. Just don't agree with the general thought process.

Leave it to a private school to bring up a metaphor involving money.

Apparently I'm a school now

I meant alumni. I wouldn't be proud to rep. STA btw...

[karl(east)]

The better class A teams would likely be seeded in the top five if they were in class AA sections. St. Thomas would likely be second in section 3AA, and Breck would be similar to Benilde in 6AA. These teams would be competetive in AA, but would just be solid AA teams. Maybe that should be enough for them, like it is for Benilde. And maybe the possibility of following in the footsteps of Hill and Holy Angels should drive them more than playing in a tournament where most of their better competition comes from other privates.

But my serious question is what Class A would look like without them. Would it not be teams like Hermantown and Warroad dominating the way Eden Prairie does in football? (not winning every year, but enough to be far more dominant than any MN hockey program). I wonder how many sections could produce a legitimate team that could compete with the top 2 teams each year. I would love to see the depth in class A as exists in AA (even the Lakeville teams that often finish in the middle of the South Suburban can at least play a decent game even if they aren't winning). Wouldn't you see a lot more 9-1 type games until the final? I admit I don't know the class A teams well enough, so I'm asking. Few Class A privates seem to knock off the better A programs, as the section eight teams don't face privates in their section, and Hermantown has done well despite Duluth Marshall. Even Mahtomedi beat St. Thomas in the last year or two as I recall. I would just hate to see one or two programs ripping past everyone else each year (even if the 1-2 programs was different every year).

The solution I've heard is to keep all A teams in Class A, but that would really take away a lot of tradition from the AA tournament. I hear northern fans complaining as it is that they are only in two sections, which of course is the inevitable result of having most northern teams in class A already. If Roseau, Bemidji, and Grand Rapids were forced to stay down, Moorhead and Duluth East would be playing more metro teams in sectionals and one could see a stretch where the northernmost teams at state were Elk River and Andover (assuming they were placed in different sections, of course).

Forcing the privates to play in a private tournament sucked in the 60s and 70s when the state champion never really knew it it was the best team in the state. At least with Hill Murray and Benilde in the state tournament, the MSHSL tourney has more clout than it did before 1975.

Finally, it's not like the top A privates are competing with the top AA programs. St. Thomas lost both games to Hill Murray, as well as Edina and Duluth East. If they were in AA, they likely would be ranked between 10-15--nothing to sneeze at, but they wouldn't be at the highest level.

Perhaps being a top 20 or so program in AA should be what those teams aspire to. I agree with everyone who would like to see them voluntarily opt up. But I think that any mandated change may create more problems than it would solve.

[PuckU126]

The better class A teams would likely be seeded in the top five if they were in class AA sections. St. Thomas would likely be second in section 3AA, and Breck would be similar to Benilde in 6AA. These teams would be competetive in AA, but would just be solid AA teams. Maybe that should be enough for them, like it is for Benilde. And maybe the possibility of following in the footsteps of Hill and Holy Angels should drive them more than playing in a tournament where most of their better competition comes from other privates.

But my serious question is what Class A would look like without them. Would it not be teams like Hermantown and Warroad dominating the way Eden Prairie does in football? (not winning every year, but enough to be far more dominant than any MN hockey program). I wonder how many sections could produce a legitimate team that could compete with the top 2 teams each year. I would love to see the depth in class A as exists in AA (even the Lakeville teams that often finish in the middle of the South Suburban can at least play a decent game even if they aren't winning). Wouldn't you see a lot more 9-1 type games until the final? I admit I don't know the class A teams well enough, so I'm asking. Few Class A privates seem to knock off the better A programs, as the section eight teams don't face privates in their section, and Hermantown has done well despite Duluth Marshall. Even Mahtomedi beat St. Thomas in the last year or two as I recall. I would just hate to see one or two programs ripping past everyone else each year (even if the 1-2 programs was different every year).

The solution I've heard is to keep all A teams in Class A, but that would really take away a lot of tradition from the AA tournament. I hear northern fans complaining as it is that they are only in two sections, which of course is the inevitable result of having most northern teams in class A already. If Roseau, Bemidji, and Grand Rapids were forced to stay down, Moorhead and Duluth East would be playing more metro teams in sectionals and one could see a stretch where the northernmost teams at state were Elk River and Andover (assuming they were placed in different sections, of course).

Forcing the privates to play in a private tournament sucked in the 60s and 70s when the state champion never really knew it it was the best team in the state. At least with Hill Murray and Benilde in the state tournament, the MSHSL tourney has more clout than it did before 1975.

Finally, it's not like the top A privates are competing with the top AA programs. St. Thomas lost both games to Hill Murray, as well as Edina and Duluth East. If they were in AA, they likely would be ranked between 10-15--nothing to sneeze at, but they wouldn't be at the highest level.

Perhaps being a top 20 or so program in AA should be what those teams aspire to. I agree with everyone who would like to see them voluntarily opt up. But I think that any mandated change may create more problems than it would solve.

Well said, Rich.

[HShockeywatcher]

The better class A teams would likely be seeded in the top five if they were in class AA sections. St. Thomas would likely be second in section 3AA, and Breck would be similar to Benilde in 6AA. These teams would be competetive in AA, but would just be solid AA teams. Maybe that should be enough for them, like it is for Benilde. And maybe the possibility of following in the footsteps of Hill and Holy Angels should drive them more than playing in a tournament where most of their better competition comes from other privates.

But my serious question is what Class A would look like without them. Would it not be teams like Hermantown and Warroad dominating the way Eden Prairie does in football? (not winning every year, but enough to be far more dominant than any MN hockey program). I wonder how many sections could produce a legitimate team that could compete with the top 2 teams each year. I would love to see the depth in class A as exists in AA (even the Lakeville teams that often finish in the middle of the South Suburban can at least play a decent game even if they aren't winning). Wouldn't you see a lot more 9-1 type games until the final? I admit I don't know the class A teams well enough, so I'm asking. Few Class A privates seem to knock off the better A programs, as the section eight teams don't face privates in their section, and Hermantown has done well despite Duluth Marshall. Even Mahtomedi beat St. Thomas in the last year or two as I recall. I would just hate to see one or two programs ripping past everyone else each year (even if the 1-2 programs was different every year).

The solution I've heard is to keep all A teams in Class A, but that would really take away a lot of tradition from the AA tournament. I hear northern fans complaining as it is that they are only in two sections, which of course is the inevitable result of having most northern teams in class A already. If Roseau, Bemidji, and Grand Rapids were forced to stay down, Moorhead and Duluth East would be playing more metro teams in sectionals and one could see a stretch where the northernmost teams at state were Elk River and Andover (assuming they were placed in different sections, of course).

Forcing the privates to play in a private tournament sucked in the 60s and 70s when the state champion never really knew it it was the best team in the state. At least with Hill Murray and Benilde in the state tournament, the MSHSL tourney has more clout than it did before 1975.

Finally, it's not like the top A privates are competing with the top AA programs. St. Thomas lost both games to Hill Murray, as well as Edina and Duluth East. If they were in AA, they likely would be ranked between 10-15--nothing to sneeze at, but they wouldn't be at the highest level.

Perhaps being a top 20 or so program in AA should be what those teams aspire to. I agree with everyone who would like to see them voluntarily opt up. But I think that any mandated change may create more problems than it would solve.

Well said, Rich.

Apparently Rich Clarke has to say it for people to applaud