Achiever Academy Roster

[MinnGirlsHockey]

Anyone have information on where girls are coming from to form a team?

Getting back to the original topic - I'm not interested in names at this point, but I'm wondering about the general make-up of the program for their 1st year. Will they have enough players for both a Varsity and a JV team? Will the Varsity be comprised of mostly 9th (and maybe 8th) graders and move-in transfer students? Will the JV be comprised of mostly 7th & 8th graders and non-move-in transfer students (I assume that transfers would still be subject to the MSHSL transfer rule)?

Also, since they appear to have multiple Twin Cities locations or "campuses", during the season I assume all girls H.S. players would do their schoolwork and hockey training at the same location?

I guess we'll learn the answers to these questions soon enough but if anyone has any insights, thanks in advance for sharing.

[sinbin]

Some thoughtful posts, OMD. The great news is that there are increasing choices for everyone, so that a one-size-fits-all model no longer need apply. As my kids have gone through the college selection process, one aspect is stressed time and time again - to what extent has the sutdent maximized the resources at his/her disposal? If you attend a small rural high school, but took every available high-level course they offered and participated in athletics and clubs, you'll do well. If you took the exact same course load at a private school or public school with a myriad of options, you will not be given the same credit. So, for those who choose to take the online learning or charter school path, will that count against them potentially as the perception might be that they took an easier path and didn't fully challenge themselves? I realize that each student is different and that some will thrive in an individualized environment (but that's not how the current college environment works). Not every student attending a high school/prep school hockey factory will win a college scholarship; most will need to rely on academics. With the jury still out in college admission officers' minds, will this trend harm those in this boat? This assumes that a college education is still the primary goal. If it's more about playing HS hockey, then perhaps this new wave is achieving that goal quite nicely.

[DrGaf]

Any thoughts about this?

Start ordering the participation medals. 1 per kid enough?

[JJhockeySS]

Not every student attending a high school/prep school hockey factory will win a college scholarship; most will need to rely on academics. With the jury still out in college admission officers' minds, will this trend harm those in this boat? This assumes that a college education is still the primary goal.

This is a key piece to this whole discussion, as I would imagine all families of female hockey players would have education as the final goal. Making decisions without this premise is an entirely different discussion topic.

Sinbin makes an excellent point that I'll take a step further. There are 34-36 D 1 programs in the country (number varies depending on how many years out you count future start up programs). Roughly 27 of them offer athletic scholarships. ALL schools have financial help available for students who qualify from an academic standpoint. It is rare for a student athlete to get 100% full ride athletic scholarship (from one of the 27 schools in the nation that offer them), schools typically offer partials and some times can tie it in to academics to get to 100% or close to (again if the student qualifies for academic money). The key point that we try to get to our families is there is a small amount of money at a small amount of schools, some in which your daughter would not want to play for, available for athletic scholarship money. While in contrast there is a good amount of money at every single school in the nation for kids who qualify from an academic standpoint (different at every school). As a coach while we stress the hockey side of things, it means nothing if you aren't strong academically as well. With this in mind it will be very interesting to see how college admissions treat the online HS education system, and if these kids are able to qualify not only for admission but for the extra financial aid money available.

[royals dad]

I think it has been stated a few times here already, if NAHA girls are getting into the schools with their High School academics, and they are I don't think AA girls will have any issues. Don't give this bull about how great the JWHL teams are either, NAHA might be the only team in (their division) this year that could even get out of section 4A.

As for money issues it is very true that not all scholarships are 100%, it is also true that ALL of the ivy's (and some D3s) use their endowments to have tuition be need based. Therefore if you get in to Harvard and your parents income is below 90K a year you will pay little or no tuition. As most if not all of the hockey players at Harvard would not get in without hockey, the idea that they do not have athletic scholarships is only true for high income families.

I dont really think you can tell AA parents that they are boxing their kid into a dead end for post secondary education. Or that hockey as a means to scholarships or school opportunity is a pipe dream for their daughters. Truth is D1 and D3 schools will be lined up for great players with moderate ACTs and good players with high ACT scores. I dont know any other sport with the level of opportunity per player that girls hockey in MN has.

If you are against the idea of AA because the playing field for MHSL seems out of balance I can understand that. Although it is not much different from other privates (I think you would be just as upset if Blake or Breck were moved into your Ds section). I dont think you can rip the choice of the parent any more than any other school choice, its is a personal family decision. And yes the paradigm is shifting any way you spell it.

[Coachk]

Really, which team from the power house 4A, would beat the Boston Shamrocks or the NSA team. Must be Simley or SSP. Stick to the topic and don't mix apples with oranges.
[/quote]

[skatez]

The big question I have with this school is how are they being allowed to play in MSHSL? I see no problem with the school, or the academics, and for some families it probably is the best fit. It seems to me that a gigantic can of worms has been opened.

This thread started out as a thread about their roster. No one apparently knows what their roster will look like, but I have heard they will have quite a few players from out of state who can move in for the season and then go back home after. How does the high school league monitor a school where students take classes online? Can you be enrolled in Achiever but live in St. Louis?

What if a girl goes to school in St. Louis, or North Dakota, or Northern Wisconsin that "transfers" to Achiever? (All places they are getting players from). Can they theoretically move to MN for four months, play the season, and then move back home and attend or graduate from their local school? I think the answer is yes, and I think that's what we will see.

What Achiever is essentially doing is bringing AAA Hockey into the MSHSL.

I see this going one of two ways: either it bombs for one reason or another, or high school sports as we know it will never be the same.

Someday will the state tournament consist of Achiever Academy, Minnesota Made High, OsOnline, The Hockey School, and St. Crossovers (for the catholic kids)???

[Rocketwrister]

The big question I have with this school is how are they being allowed to play in MSHSL? I see no problem with the school, or the academics, and for some families it probably is the best fit. It seems to me that a gigantic can of worms has been opened.

This thread started out as a thread about their roster. No one apparently knows what their roster will look like, but I have heard they will have quite a few players from out of state who can move in for the season and then go back home after. How does the high school league monitor a school where students take classes online? Can you be enrolled in Achiever but live in St. Louis?

What if a girl goes to school in St. Louis, or North Dakota, or Northern Wisconsin that "transfers" to Achiever? (All places they are getting players from). Can they theoretically move to MN for four months, play the season, and then move back home and attend or graduate from their local school? I think the answer is yes, and I think that's what we will see.

What Achiever is essentially doing is bringing AAA Hockey into the MSHSL.

I see this going one of two ways: either it bombs for one reason or another, or high school sports as we know it will never be the same.

Someday will the state tournament consist of Achiever Academy, Minnesota Made High, OsOnline, The Hockey School, and St. Crossovers (for the catholic kids)???

Very good points you brought up. I hope it's not ture with out of state kids transferring in for a few months and then going back home....i think the MSHSL has screwed this one up.

[royals dad]

Don't give this bull about how great the JWHL teams are either, NAHA might be the only team in (their division) this year that could even get out of section 4A

Really, which team from the power house 4A, would beat the Boston Shamrocks or the NSA team. Must be Simley or SSP. Stick to the topic and don't mix apples with oranges.

Just responding to your statement "NAHA plays in an totally different kind of league that prepares those players for D1 and U18 opportunities." NAHA is part of the topic as it is a comparable academic format to AA. They out scored their league at about a 4 to 1 clip last year while going 27 and 1. This year the JWHL looks to be way down based on Stoney Brook and NAHA tourneys. What ever makes you bitter about MN, the old everything outside MN is better argument is what needs to be put to rest.

[Coachk]

I am not bitter about MN hockey, I have coached all levels for 17 years. It is just sad to see all the coaching openings every year, the towns combining because of a lack of players. A power house like SSp that no longer has a feeder program. Parents that feel like there is a need for Achiever academy. Something is failing on the girls side and it doesn't seem to be on the path to getting turned around anytime soon. It also sad when a HS coach focuses on 2 or 3 players and uses the others as fill ins for those players short 4 years of hockey. Its sad to see a coach choosen to coach a 4A high school team, play their daughter with significant less talent over other players ignoring all who question. I love all hockey no matter where and what level.The parents that choose Tier 1 over HS, most are not rich and have to sacrifice to have their daughters play. Thats their choice and none of anybodys business. My point is HS hockey and Tier hockey are different. Attention needs to be focused on how to fix what is wrong. If that is done there will be no need for Achiever academy or any others like it.

[OsMetroDad]

Thats their choice and none of anybodys business. My point is HS hockey and Tier hockey are different. Attention needs to be focused on how to fix what is wrong. If that is done there will be no need for Achiever academy or any others like it.

CoachK - Coming from a completely different perspective, ie., competitive swimming, I find it interesting that the hockey traditionalists here in Minnesota want to impose absolute control over people's choices and are so reluctent to change, which is a universal constant. No matter how hard MN hockey digs its feet into the sand, change is inevitable. We saw it in usa swimming during the 70's & 80's and we are seeing it now in MN hockey with law suits between Mn-Made vs. Mn D6, etc. NorEDU/AA is just another step in the change process, and its not neccesarily a bad thing either because it provides choices and opportunities beyond what has been availible in the past. It's appearent that the old established system is not robust enough to stand the test of time because then there would not be folks like the Black's over at NorEDU/AA & Dave Snuggarud at Break-away Academy that are developing innovated approaches to preparing student athlete's for college level education. The change that you are seeing in education from brick & mortar schools to virtual campuses is primarily technology driven, which more and more people of all ages are migrating to for all sorts of learning situations. I understand the human desire to think that the old ways are always better, and that change is equated to something being broken or wrong, but the fact of the matter is that it is simply change, nothing more and nothing less. You also eluded to two other trends going on in girls hockey which are completely separate functions, and are accurately identified: (1) Growth of HS coops, and (2) concentration of girls talent towards private schools like HM, BSM, Blake, Breck, etc. Both of these social trends in my opinion are demographically and economically driven. Ice hockey is an expensive sport to play, and like swimming requires a year-round training regiment if being an elite player is one's goal. Perhaps using tax dollars to subsidize development programs/training could mitigate these trends, but that's a much bigger issue and won't be solved soon.

[Coachk]

That is the most thoughful response I have ever recieved. I agree the trend in education is online and the sooner a student can navigate the process the better equiped they are. My wife was also a swimmer and she has filled me in on all the changes. I know things won't be the same as before, except parents complaining and coaches quiting. I have been in this so long that the complaints and problems remain the same just the faces of who are expressing do. I have been and I am involved with Tier hockey, but have been involved with youth and high school hockey. I have see just about everything. The one point I want people to know is Minnesota community based hockey is not the norm across the US. AAA and Tier are, many people outside of Minnesota marvel at our programs. All programs change, some get better and some get worse. Years ago my goaltender daughter chose Culver Academy over NAHA because NAHA was so bad. I believe they won the U19 championship last year. Change happens, but I still want the Wood Stick back.

[D6 Girls Fan]

Getting back to one of my original questions about this program:

Who will put them on their schedule?

[MN_Bowhunter]

Who will put them on their schedule?

Considering that the league has made an exception for UAA and is allowing teams to add a 26th game to their schedule to accommodate them, I'm sure they will find enough teams to play. I would suppose teams in Section 4A will schedule them so they can see what they're up against.

[sinbin]

So do all teams get a 26th game or only those who choose to play against AA?

[OsMetroDad]

Getting back to one of my original questions about this program:

Who will put them on their schedule?

Any team that embraces playing competitive hockey. NorEDU/AchA schedule should be out soon, but it looks like they picked up a bunch of 2A games when Bloomington Kennedy's program folded into a coop with BloomJeff. Should be on the Mn Girls Hk Hub soon.

[OsMetroDad]

So do all teams get a 26th game or only those who choose to play against AA?

most likely just those in section 4A

[SECoach]

It's so very, very hard to express to a parent that is buried so deep in the middle of the grind, how different things will look a few years from now. For that reason, I won't begin to try. I'll just say that it will, I wish you and your family the best, and we'll see you on the other side.

[BP]

So do all teams get a 26th game or only those who choose to play against AA?

Just teams that play AA. AA got a waiver, like their boys did last year, so allow teams to play a 26th game, because most teams schedules were set at that point.

[MinnGirlsHockey]

Getting back to one of my original questions about this program:

Who will put them on their schedule?

Any team that embraces playing competitive hockey. NorEDU/AchA schedule should be out soon, but it looks like they picked up a bunch of 2A games when Bloomington Kennedy's program folded into a coop with BloomJeff. Should be on the Mn Girls Hk Hub soon.

Schedule has been posted on the Hub. Not sure of their potential tournament opponents, but with their schedule almost complete it looks like only 3 opponents are in Class A (all from Section 4A: Simley, SPU and Minnehaha).

Sat Nov 9 - St. Louis Park (0-0-0) TBD TBD
Tue Nov 12 - @ Hopkins (0-0-0) Minnetonka Ice Arena 7:00 PM
Fri Nov 15 - @ Simley (0-0-0) Inver Grove Heights 7:30 PM
Sat Nov 16 - North St. Paul (0-0-0) TBD
Tue Nov 19 - @ North Wright County (0-0-0) Monticello TBD
Thu Nov 21 - @ Holy Family/Waconia (0-0-0) Victoria Ice Arena TBD
Sat Nov 23 - @ St. Paul United (0-0-0) Drake Arena TBD
Fri Nov 29 - @ TBD (0-0-0) New Prague Tournament TBD
Sat Nov 30 - @ TBD (0-0-0) New Prague Tournament TBD
Sat Dec 7 - @ Rochester JM/Lourdes (0-0-0) Graham Arena TBD
Tue Dec 10 - Lakeville South (0-0-0) TBD
Sat Dec 14 - @ Dodge County (0-0-0) Kasson TBD
Thu Dec 26 - @ TBD (0-0-0) Burnsville Tournament TBD
Fri Dec 27 - @ TBD (0-0-0) Burnsville Tournament TBD
Sat Dec 28 - @ TBD (0-0-0) Burnsville Tournament TBD
Mon Dec 30 - @ TBD (0-0-0) Schwan Cup TBD
Tue Dec 31 - @ TBD (0-0-0) Schwan Cup TBD
Wed Jan 1 - @ TBD (0-0-0) Schwan Cup TBD
Sat Jan 4 - Minnehaha (0-0-0) Richfield Ice Arena, Richfield TBD
Tue Jan 7 - @ Burnsville (0-0-0) Burnsville Ice Arena TBD
Thu Jan 9 - Holy Family/Waconia (0-0-0) TBD
Thu Jan 16 - @ Lakeville North (0-0-0) Ames Arena TBD
Mon Jan 27 - @ Irondale (0-0-0) Schwan Superrink TBD

[allhoc11]

No home games? Seems weird, or maybe they are just going to every community they took a kid from and considering those home games for those kids........sorry low blow, couldn't resist.

SE Coach can't wait to see this world you talk about, you sound like the people who promoted the segway years back, we can only hope this new world is as big of a success as the segway. SEE YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE!

[SECoach]

No home games? Seems weird, or maybe they are just going to every community they took a kid from and considering those home games for those kids........sorry low blow, couldn't resist.

SE Coach can't wait to see this world you talk about, you sound like the people who promoted the segway years back, we can only hope this new world is as big of a success as the segway. SEE YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE!

Sorry I couldn't make my point with you.......wait.....maybe that was my point.

[OsMetroDad]

[quote="allhoc11"]No home games? Seems weird, or maybe they are just going to every community they took a kid from and considering those home games for those kids........sorry low blow, couldn't resist./quote]

allhoc11 - Considering that AchAcd were not sure that they would have a girls HS team until mid-summer, i'd say they did a great job of creating a challenging game schedule for the up coming 2013-2014 season. Your sarcasm coming out of a cheary fellow like yourself who probablly doesn't even have a HS age daughter playing any more is a bit mis-placed for this discuusion. If you don't like the idea of change and opportunity, go start your own girls program and then you might appreciate the hard work it takes to get something like NorEDU/AchAc or Break-away up and running. Look at it a bit differently in terms of demographics, as the metro population grows, over time there are always going to be new programs forming to accomodate the increase in hockey players in a particular locale. Did you verbally criticize both Holy Family and Providence Acad girls programs when they got started a few years ago? In the case of both AchAc & Break-away, they are really serving as a demongraphic pressure relief value on the current system. I also see it as a very positive situation all around where as the kids who elect to participate at a new program like NorEDU or Break-away academies just open up opportunities for other kids to play varsity at the schools they left. All is good, all-hoc-11 Enjoy life for a change.

[hockeyfan21]

Take a look at the online only high schools and their performance, consistently sub par and sometimes so low and fraudulent that the parents have legal recourse.

I give it 3 years until the state gets enough data on Northern Educate and we see an article in the strib about it being a diploma mill. Don't give me that crap about "individualized learning", kids are in front of a computer and have virtually no real interaction with other students or instructors other than "where is the answer to question 6".

If parents want 3 hours of on ice work for their kids fine, everyone is allowed to be a crazy parent. But to think that online only education is fine for an elementary student is borderline negligent. I've taught in both public and private schools, in grades 5th through 12th. I've taken college classes completely online and you learn next to nothing compared to what you do in a classroom.

hockeyfan21 - It shows that you haven't done much homework on the current state and progress of on-line curriculums/schools. AA is actually a HYBRID model being part brick & mortar traditional school, part virtual class room , and part home schooling. Its a good model that allows for high motivated students to excell and also provide a great environment for students that need that extra flexibility in the work day. The curriciulm content from my perspective is excellent, and when it comes right down to it, it has to be, and will be because it can be regularly updated, enhanced and improved where text books are out of date as soon as they are published. Yes, it a new paradygme that is not for every student, and nor should it be. The best thing that I see the AA environment doing for my child is that it will better prepare her for college than most other schools because of the self-discipline that is developed by the student to learn in this environment. Guess I rather embrace it than be afraid of a future and growing mode of education.

Actually....

I began my high school teaching career 17 years ago in Pennsylvania in a Hybrid learning environment. Students attended school on either M-W or T-Th basis. The remainder of their time was with at home, self-paced (call it home schooled if you want...) primarily static content acquisition work. The in class time was on critical thinking, clarification and enrichment. It worked great! For far less than 25% the students.

The other students struggled to hold themselves accountable and keep up with the work. They had an adjoining Middle School based on the same model that they shuttered after two years because the students were falling so far behind traditional middle school students. The students simply weren't ready to have that much accountability on their own. And their parents, best interests and all, were not teachers who could help them as much as they anticipated they could with the content. They never opened the planned elementary school.

Unlike AA, the in-class time was spent with state licensed teachers who were required to have a minimum of a bachelors degree in the field of study taught (In my case economics, and psychology) and a masters degree in teaching pedagogy. After 4 years teaching, the pattern of students/parent behavior never changed. The school transitioned to a 100% online format out of financial necessity. It became a paper mill of diplomas, and I left.

I have spent the last 13 years teaching in a public high school (not a very prestigious one, not a "basement dweller" but it fits where I want to live and raise my family) and continue to teach a "flipped" classroom method. Most high schools are doing it.... I teach two college in the school classes as well. In addition I teach as an adjunct professor through the MNSCU system for psychology.

Each spring I teach one online only intro to psychology class. The level of work (and these are "college students") in the online class is markedly lower than the level of work I receive from high school juniors and seniors in the same class taught with at least some physical presence.

And this is talking about motivated people ages 17-20+. The idea of an online only school, with no highly trained staff (heck even give me someone who did their joke 8 week TfA program) for elementary students makes me cringe for those kids.

Online learning is here to stay. I haven't used a physical textbook in 8 years. But learning isn't about a textbook, or a webpage. It's about critical thinking, human interaction, and wrestling with ideas. Google still doesn't offer those features... Neither does skating for 3 hours a day.

[sinbin]

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:21 am Post subject:
sinbin wrote:
So do all teams get a 26th game or only those who choose to play against AA?

Just teams that play AA. AA got a waiver, like their boys did last year, so allow teams to play a 26th game, because most teams schedules were set at that point.

So some may argue that these teams will reap a modest competitive advantage by being able to play a 26th game while their competitors play only 25. Probably fairly insignificant, and no one will want to lose to AA, but still not completely equitable across all girls' HS teams.