Tier 1 now in MN

greybeard58 · Post by **greybeard58** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:43 am

National tournaments
1996 Girls/Womens Bloomington
1999 Tier1 Bantam Edina
2000 Tier I Bantam Bloomington
2003(?) Girls/Womens Super Rink
plus a number of Junior B tournaments at the super rink

MWS coach · Post by **MWS coach** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:19 am

One downside I see to this if other options such as Elite League or private tier 1 teams such as Blades, BE, Magicians etc. are no more as the model has two birth years. How many of younger age group will make these teams? In age groups older than U14, what options will remain available for the younger half of the first birth year a few years down the road? I am sure someone will figure it out but initially could be less opportunities for the younger bubble players.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:35 am

MWS coach wrote:One downside I see to this if other options such as Elite League or private tier 1 teams such as Blades, BE, Magicians etc. are no more as the model has two birth years. How many of younger age group will make these teams? In age groups older than U14, what options will remain available for the younger half of the first birth year a few years down the road? I am sure someone will figure it out but initially could be less opportunities for the younger bubble players.

U15 is an ever expanding age group in the Tier 1 community./ My guess is that U15 will be a full fledged recognized age group in the next couple of years with it's own national tourney and when that happens MN will probably follow suit with a team for that age as well under this model. Right now you have U14, U16 and U18. In a few short years you will likely have U14, U15, U16, & U18 and that really should cover things at that point.

OU812 · Post by **OU812** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:54 am

Elliot, can you clarify a couple things Plz?

What is the status under this proposal of the Blades, Magicians, NWings etc - would they be allowed to compete for the fall tournament and a spot in nationals? I see they would get "special affiliate status", but didn't exactly know what that meant as far as the national tournament.

Also, each fall the elite league rosters almost all the top 80 or so MN HS players (the ones that don't leave early for juniors, anyway). How does that league fit into the new model, if at all? What about the elite development league for underclassmen? Bottom line, is the new Tier 1 structure going to be competitive enough for the top players?

Finally it looked like the new MN Hockey Tier 1 teams would be divided by section (like the HP programs). So would top players in each section try out for the HP programs in May, going as far as they can through the summer, then try out again in July for the Tier 1 team?

Thx.

observer · Post by **observer** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:39 am

BE, Blades, Magicians, for example will not be allowed to play before and/or after?

Did we get an answer on this? I presume the Revolution has plans to continue.

Some Districts will be excellent. As someone else said Final 54 teams definitely could compete.

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:39 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Bonin2121 wrote:How many game series vs. Shattuck? Before this Shattuck got an auto bid to Nationals? How does Bauer Emerson get to Nationals?

I don't follow Tier 1 stuff much.
My understanding is that they will not be going to nationals.
Under this proposal only Shattuck will be grandfathered in - all others will be governed directly by MH.

The series details have not been worked out.

He answered this earlier in the thread.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:44 pm

OU812 wrote:Elliot, can you clarify a couple things Plz?

What is the status under this proposal of the Blades, Magicians, NWings etc - would they be allowed to compete for the fall tournament and a spot in nationals? I see they would get "special affiliate status", but didn't exactly know what that meant as far as the national tournament.

As of today, no, they would not compete for nationals. But the details are still being worked on - we will see if they have enough political impact to be included - but the idea was tier 1 to be controlled by MH.

Also, each fall the elite league rosters almost all the top 80 or so MN HS players (the ones that don't leave early for juniors, anyway). How does that league fit into the new model, if at all? What about the elite development league for underclassmen? Bottom line, is the new Tier 1 structure going to be competitive enough for the top players?

Assuming all the top players go to the Tier 1 league then yes it will be competitive.
The future of elite and elite D is to be determined

Finally it looked like the new MN Hockey Tier 1 teams would be divided by section (like the HP programs). So would top players in each section try out for the HP programs in May, going as far as they can through the summer, then try out again in July for the Tier 1 team?

As was discussed, the details need to be worked out. It may just be one try-out, but that may not be feasible.

Thx.

Sauce · Post by **Sauce** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:47 pm

The big question for me is will the top players actually play for the MN Tier 1 League...I really doubt it. The high end talent would be dispursed all over the place, too many options as it stands. The safest option for those players would be to play for the Blades/Magicians or a team where they can guarantee a good coach, good practices with a group of good players from top to bottom with the same skill set.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:29 pm

You don't think sct 7/2/6/4 ect would have solid u16 teams ??

Section 8 guy · Post by **Section 8 guy** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:11 am

Regarding the talk about how none of the "districts" will be strong enough to compete with the top Tier 1 teams......didn't Edina's PeeWee team go to Michigan as an intact team and go 2-1-1 or something like that vs 4 of the top 15 or so Tier 1 teams in the country? If that's right (and maybe it's not)......I know those Edina teams were phenomenal community PeeWee teams.......but I can't imagine a team made up of kids from an entire district couldn't be competitive with them.

observer · Post by **observer** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:49 am

Good point. After watching several district and sectional HP tourneys for both boys and girls I do know the teams in the Final 54 tourneys play so much better than the District and Section teams. Very impressive hockey. District and Section teams may be a stretch.

MN Hockey will mess it up just like USA Hockey and will scatter the placements around instead of allowing truly the best players. There won't be 6-8 from any one program.

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:37 pm

Sauce makes the good point

It will be important for a smooth transition plan to be rolled out as soon as possible this spring, so kids and families will see the timelines, coaches, facilities, sponsors, likely talent pool, rules and interpretations, etc

the_juiceman · Post by **the_juiceman** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:29 am

elliott70 wrote:
Dangler82 wrote:
elliott70 wrote:CLARIFICATION

this is how it is to work as of right now. Details are still being worked on but this is what has been proposed:

Everything will be under MH (no private tier 1 teams)
14U will be by district with certain districts combining (ex. 15 & 16 combined).
There will be 8 tier 1 teams (plus Shattuck). They will play in the late summer/fall with a play-off to determine the winner. The winner will come back in the spring to play Shattuck to send a team to Nationals.

16U & 18U will be by high school sections per the HP program. 8 teams at each level with a fall play-off and winner playing in the spring against Shattuck.

(Something similar on the girls side of it.)

It was brought up that fair and transparent evaluations need to be done in selecting teams. HP is not always perceived as having this.

A lot of details still to be worked out.
This question may have already been answered, but.

Will the teams be formed based on birth year, or MN Hockey age cut-offs?
USAH ages (calendar year) will be used.

Will this be an invite only deal like HP? or will it be open try-outs?

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:41 am

the_juiceman wrote:
elliott70 wrote:
Dangler82 wrote: This question may have already been answered, but.

Will the teams be formed based on birth year, or MN Hockey age cut-offs?
USAH ages (calendar year) will be used.
Will this be an invite only deal like HP? or will it be open try-outs?

Details have not been worked out.
My assumption is that a player will need to be nominated somehow just to control the process. In other words C level, lower B level players may be excluded.
But I do not know as the process has yet to be determined.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:42 am

WestMetro wrote:Sauce makes the good point

It will be important for a smooth transition plan to be rolled out as soon as possible this spring, so kids and families will see the timelines, coaches, facilities, sponsors, likely talent pool, rules and interpretations, etc

I agree and these were points I stressed before we voted on it.

OU812 · Post by **OU812** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:06 pm

Elliot thx for the feedback. Thx also for all the MNH efforts over the years - we have a great overall setup here, for all the kids, and MinnHockey should get a lot of credit for that.

Having said that, I'm still not sure enough top end kids will be sold on the idea of playing in this new Tier 1 fall/spring league. I know you responded to my last post by saying "assuming all the top kids" choose the new Tier 1 option, it would be competitive, but I am with some of the others on this forum asking if that's a realistic assumption. I think if the Elite League remains an option for players it would be hard to make this new Tier 1 MN Hockey level competitive. The Blades, Magicians, USHL and NAHL "before and after" options all seem to attract some of the top end kids. If this Tier 1 thing is going to work looks like all of those groups would have to agree to step aside somehow, right? Since those other groups all appear to be planning (so far, anyway) to go ahead with the 2015-2016 schedules, just seemed unclear what exactly was happening.

Also, didn't we have a possible MN spring USA tournament team proposed in the past that was shelved by MNH due partly to lack of interest by the players?

Anything you can share about how everybody moves forward on this would be appreciated.

Just my two cents. Thx.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:10 pm

OU812 wrote:Elliot thx for the feedback. Thx also for all the MNH efforts over the years - we have a great overall setup here, for all the kids, and MinnHockey should get a lot of credit for that.

Having said that, I'm still not sure enough top end kids will be sold on the idea of playing in this new Tier 1 fall/spring league. I know you responded to my last post by saying "assuming all the top kids" choose the new Tier 1 option, it would be competitive, but I am with some of the others on this forum asking if that's a realistic assumption. I think if the Elite League remains an option for players it would be hard to make this new Tier 1 MN Hockey level competitive. The Blades, Magicians, USHL and NAHL "before and after" options all seem to attract some of the top end kids. If this Tier 1 thing is going to work looks like all of those groups would have to agree to step aside somehow, right? Since those other groups all appear to be planning (so far, anyway) to go ahead with the 2015-2016 schedules, just seemed unclear what exactly was happening.

Also, didn't we have a possible MN spring USA tournament team proposed in the past that was shelved by MNH due partly to lack of interest by the players?

Anything you can share about how everybody moves forward on this would be appreciated.

Just my two cents. Thx.

I will post on the board anything that happens as the committee moves forward.

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:42 pm

I assume there have been discussions at the highest of the highest levels in terms of the key Minnesotan hockey faithful and sponsors about the future of the Elite League vs the new Tier 1 season. Certainly dont want to catch families or kids in middle of any conflicts or uncertainties. But, I find it a bit curious about timing of Russo's recent LPH article as well as recent schedule postings on the Elite League website, ( website is usually quite dormant, and posting usually very last minute)

the_juiceman · Post by **the_juiceman** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:15 pm

OU812 wrote:Elliot thx for the feedback. Thx also for all the MNH efforts over the years - we have a great overall setup here, for all the kids, and MinnHockey should get a lot of credit for that.

Having said that, I'm still not sure enough top end kids will be sold on the idea of playing in this new Tier 1 fall/spring league. I know you responded to my last post by saying "assuming all the top kids" choose the new Tier 1 option, it would be competitive, but I am with some of the others on this forum asking if that's a realistic assumption. I think if the Elite League remains an option for players it would be hard to make this new Tier 1 MN Hockey level competitive. The Blades, Magicians, USHL and NAHL "before and after" options all seem to attract some of the top end kids. If this Tier 1 thing is going to work looks like all of those groups would have to agree to step aside somehow, right? Since those other groups all appear to be planning (so far, anyway) to go ahead with the 2015-2016 schedules, just seemed unclear what exactly was happening.

Also, didn't we have a possible MN spring USA tournament team proposed in the past that was shelved by MNH due partly to lack of interest by the players?

Anything you can share about how everybody moves forward on this would be appreciated.

Just my two cents. Thx.

so this is only for the "elite" players? if so, why not just use the HS "elite" league teams and sanction them for Tier 1 under USA Hockey? Are there not enough other "non-elite" kids that want to play the B/E that are looking for more development to become better players?

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:24 pm

Use the section teams and the rest can play in the High School elite league.

nu2hockey · Post by **nu2hockey** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:42 pm

If you are an Elite League player, stay with the Elite League or Blades,or Magicians,etc
This faux tier one league is a sham ,designed to get more money out of families .
You can be sure , that by attaching this to the HP program, mn hocky is counting on the subtle pressure of"if you want to make national camp you have to play this".

scoreandscoreoften · Post by **scoreandscoreoften** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:59 pm

Aren't all these programs designed to get more money out of families? Somebody is making money in all of them.

Doubt it would happen with all the struggle for power but, what would be wrong with all these and other programs exisisting at the same time. Sure if only one or two programs live on, the skill level will be higher but, if they all existed many more players would get the chance to play and develop, and isn't that the goal.

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:05 am

nu2hockey wrote:If you are an Elite League player, stay with the Elite League or Blades,or Magicians,etc
This faux tier one league is a sham ,designed to get more money out of families .
You can be sure , that by attaching this to the HP program, mn hocky is counting on the subtle pressure of"if you want to make national camp you have to play this".

Not a sham at all. If Tier 1 is inevitable, much better MN Hockey than some private business. And it's not MORE money. You're only going to play one or the other, not both, so your money is going to go somewhere. I'd rather see it go to MN Hockey than into some guy's pocket, but whatever floats your boat.

OU812 · Post by **OU812** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:14 pm

I'm not so worried about who runs it, but I'm against any changes that make the current system worse for Minnesota kids. I guess my main concern is that the level of fall competition not be lowered, because I don't see how that helps the kids involved or makes the quality of our hockey better for everybody.

Right now the elite league level of play is outstanding; two seasons ago I heard a speaker say it was the "top development league of it's kind in the country, maybe the world". The roughly 90 MN HS players in the elite league class of 2014, for example, included 23 D-1 scholarship recipients, with 6 of those players drafted by the NHL that June. All the kids involved - and their HS teams too - benefit when the caliber of play is that high. NHL scouts, college coaches and junior scouts flock to watch the games. This is great for all of MN hockey. Currently these kids are placed on elite league teams based on merit, not geography, and they don't have to give up any spring options, like games in the USHL or NAHL, or baseball, track and field, or golf, or whatever. Let's not create any new reasons for the top kids to consider taking off for juniors permanently and leave HS hockey.

The Elite D league (which is run by a different group, btw) helps another around 200 MN underclassmen work on their game in the fall. This group is just as important to MN HS hockey, if not more so, because they fill out so many spots on HS rosters. And, of course, the whole point of creating the elite league and elite D was to promote kids staying in HS hockey for the winter.

Both these leagues are non profit corporations, and the board members and coaches are all volunteer, so I don't see the money as a big factor either way. Just asking everybody to keep the actual hockey players in mind.

Hope it all gets worked out.

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:50 pm

I find myself agreeing with OU812 various analysis and questions, and again hope there have been/will be discussions at the highest levels as to how this transition will work and what the final outcomes are expected to be, to ensure families and kids are not placed in positions of conflict or uncertainty . And to ensure level of fall competition is at least as good, and hopefully even better. Also, hopefully to ensure all well motivated longstanding high level hockey faithful and sponsors feel the transition path will be fair and respectful.