Private School Trash talk thread

[thestickler07]

I'm saying that right now we seem to have a 'semi-prep' environment in this state (public and private) and the genie is already out of the bottle. Kids are hockey shopping. David Backes and Ben Hanowski are becoming dinosaurs.

Alright so you just don't understand the word irony then, glad that's cleared up.

And no, we have nothing close to what prep schools out on the east coast are doing, or any semblance of AAA league play here.

Good competition in high school hockey is the biggest thing keeping that from happening. Kicking out good teams like HM, CDH, STAA, BSM is a good way to get the ball rolling on the rest of the MSHSL league going to s***.

Don't let your hatred blind you bro.

[HShockeywatcher]

So, you are going to use a quote from the MSHSL then not explain what you think it means?


Not sure that you proposed anything specifically, but you're going along with the separate tournament idea.
You're right, beating SSM has nothing to do with coaching or anything else, it's simply from being "fortunate." Nice.

Hey, we're in Minnesota here. We all want the best public schools!
I think you might be in the "Edina is the only public school that knows what we're doing camp." But that would be be snarky, wouldn't it?

You must not read my posts. Hermantown is the public school that is doing it right...until their coach gets behind the microphone

Bolded is irony. Seems that drawing ignorant parallels DOES fly here.

What did you even say here?

If the MSHSL invited a prep school environment by kicking out private schools it would be disastrous for high school hockey in the state.

I'm saying that right now we seem to have a 'semi-prep' environment in this state (public and private) and the genie is already out of the bottle. Kids are hockey shopping. David Backes and Ben Hanowski are becoming dinosaurs.

Becoming is the key word. And instead of reversing it, you are on the side of having them become instant dinosaurs.

[HShockeywatcher]

No, I don't think you should be happy with the status quo, that's what I've been saying for 3/4 of this thread.
My opinion is that you [me, and everybody else] should be totally unhappy with the status quo. But instead of whining about the status quo, my opinion is that we should do what we can to fix the different reasons people are leaving. Many people who end up at privates would've anyway, but many also wouldn't have. This "problem" wouldn't exist if those specific students weren't leaving. It would also exist less if more of those who are still there were participating in extra-curricular activities or if there was more subsidized participation in extra-curricular activities.

We agree on the above.

Interesting. Then why have the private schools go somewhere else?

What improvements do you suggest be made at public systems?

[Bonehead]

I'm saying that right now we seem to have a 'semi-prep' environment in this state (public and private) and the genie is already out of the bottle. Kids are hockey shopping. David Backes and Ben Hanowski are becoming dinosaurs.

Alright so you just don't understand the word irony then, glad that's cleared up.

And no, we have nothing close to what prep schools out on the east coast are doing, or any semblance of AAA league play here.

Good competition in high school hockey is the biggest thing keeping that from happening. Kicking out good teams like HM, CDH, STAA, BSM is a good way to get the ball rolling on the rest of the MSHSL league going to s***.

Don't let your hatred blind you bro.

If you didn't see irony it didn't happen, right?

I agree that kicking ANY teams out of the MSHSL is wrong. But we are watching the way it is become the way it was. As in good luck watching Novak graduate from STA. Or Whalin from WBL.

Sour grapes make a bitter whine, right? Not hatin', just old I guess.

[HShockeywatcher]

I'm saying that right now we seem to have a 'semi-prep' environment in this state (public and private) and the genie is already out of the bottle. Kids are hockey shopping. David Backes and Ben Hanowski are becoming dinosaurs.

Alright so you just don't understand the word irony then, glad that's cleared up.

And no, we have nothing close to what prep schools out on the east coast are doing, or any semblance of AAA league play here.

Good competition in high school hockey is the biggest thing keeping that from happening. Kicking out good teams like HM, CDH, STAA, BSM is a good way to get the ball rolling on the rest of the MSHSL league going to s***.

Don't let your hatred blind you bro.

If you didn't see irony it didn't happen, right?

I agree that kicking ANY teams out of the MSHSL is wrong. But we are watching the way it is become the way it was. As in good luck watching Novak graduate from STA. Or Whalin from WBL.

Sour grapes make a bitter whine, right? Not hatin', just old I guess.

But changing the rules so they voluntarily opt out is okay?

[Bonehead]

Alright so you just don't understand the word irony then, glad that's cleared up.

And no, we have nothing close to what prep schools out on the east coast are doing, or any semblance of AAA league play here.

Good competition in high school hockey is the biggest thing keeping that from happening. Kicking out good teams like HM, CDH, STAA, BSM is a good way to get the ball rolling on the rest of the MSHSL league going to s***.

Don't let your hatred blind you bro.

If you didn't see irony it didn't happen, right?

I agree that kicking ANY teams out of the MSHSL is wrong. But we are watching the way it is become the way it was. As in good luck watching Novak graduate from STA. Or Whalin from WBL.

Sour grapes make a bitter whine, right? Not hatin', just old I guess.

But changing the rules so they voluntarily opt out is okay?

Membership IS voluntary and maybe a few of the big players would go if they were restricted but it feels like good old obfuscation and protectionism at its finest. The emoticons are appreciated, but really.

[Mailman]

gifted at hockey left Stillwater in HS alumi payed all his bills at Hill including Hill gear like hooded sweat shirts and sweat pants books,hockey

Bonehead, you're basically asking Jesse Ventura if 9/11 was an inside job, the government is secretly making underground cities for the apocalypse and if area 51 has aliens.

He (hockeymannorth) is not a credible source. (Bashes private schools constantly on this forum and has no proof to back it up)

But go ahead and prove me wrong.

If I was looking for credible sources this is the last place I'd look!

I'm just trying to get my head around it. My guess is it's not bad as they say it is, but not as good as you say it is. I got no horse in this race - don't even KNOW a current player.

LOL, man, ain't that the truth

[Mite-dad]

The best solution is to just make privates play AA. AA public schools can compete with the private schools. Most of the A publics cannot. I know the outcry will be that some private schools won't be able to compete. Well, neither can a large number of AA publics now so what's the big deal? The privates have shown that they are more capable than public schools to build great programs with their wealthy alumni. And their superior education they provide will be able to draw that talent if they just invest a little in facilities. Most public schools have a difficult time doing this. It is the best solution to level the playing field somewhat.

[about22pandas]

Mite-day,

There are also some awful A privates. Not many, but some.

How about once an A private school makes the tourney 3 times in a row or 4 times in 5 years, or 7 in 10, they have to opt up?

They cannot go back to A unless they finish in last place in their section 3 years in a row.

Same can go for the dominate public A teams - win state 3 times in 5 years and you bump up to AA. Or 4 times in 10 years. Give them a little more leniency, as besides Hermantown, no one in A would probably make their section semifinals. So only the truly dominate ones who can compete in AA are forced to opt up. And truthfully besides Hermantown, none could compete in AA so if they opted up, there wouldn't be an issue with publics having to opt up.


This would solve most if not all of the issues. I feel like the biggest gripe with everyone is privates playing in A. Having the good ones (not even STA or Breck, but even Duluth Marshall, etc) play in AA solves a ton of the issues.

Giving them their own class system would ruin hockey.



Just my two cents.

[sagard]

I prefer less privates in AA. No way do I watch as much tourney with Hill/Benilde/StThomas in it every year. Honestly people have been reduced to rooting for Edina.

I'd love to have three tourneys. Let the AA and Private champs play a week later. Or not.

[Lazy Scout]

It would completely ruin high school hockey to have the privates have their own tournament. In the last 20 years only 5 private schools (25%) have won the AA title. I don't exactly see that as dominating over the public schools. 13 of last 20 years privates have won A title. That seems to be where the discrepancy is. The landscape of hockey is changing, it is not what is used to be in the 80's and 90's. Open enrollment has changed public schools and who can play where. Kids just chase after the best place they think they can play. If some want to pay $12,000-18,000 to play and get an education or open enroll to Edina for free, that is what it has become. STA is long overdue to move up but you can't use them as the only example. There are a lot of small privates that can't even compete at the A class.

[SWPrez]

I still think that the transfer/recruiting is made to be too big of an issue by some.

Look at Holy Angels in the mid-00's. They were the "go to" school for privates on the west side. They did have a good feeder in Jefferson, but there were many other kids in there from many other communities.

About five or six years ago, they had eight goalies show up and try out for the team....many were pretty good and let go - career over, no chance to transfer. These teams get saturated with superstars and implode from the inside out. Programs can get 'too hot' and draw too many strong players like a magnet. Creating dysfunction.

Take a BSM today who happen to be sitting in that "Holy Angels" position, how many more superstars can you have before the apple cart tips over? They get so deep with superstars that the young freshman or sophomores get third or fourth line playing time (meaning few shifts per game) and they see little or no PP or PK time. You saw it with the Baer situation this year --- not enough ice, time to look for more ice elsewhere. Its nice to play on a winner.....when you get to contribute.

Hill Murray seems to do an excellent job with 2nd - 4th liners developing them into a state contender year after year. They may be the closest to having the balance right.

I have said it before....will say it again. Trashcan the transfer rule completely. If MN hockey wants to keep kids playing hockey in Minnesota, provide them with the opportunity to play for a coach they like, free of politics, free of backdoor 'winks' of playing time, or alumni aided aid/elite league positions. Some teams may be able to load up quite well, but six stud forwards and 3 stud D and a goalie is all you need to win and any team would have that opportunity with an open transfer rule.

[Ready2GoYet]

The best solution is to just make privates play AA. AA public schools can compete with the private schools. Most of the A publics cannot. I know the outcry will be that some private schools won't be able to compete. Well, neither can a large number of AA publics now so what's the big deal? The privates have shown that they are more capable than public schools to build great programs with their wealthy alumni. And their superior education they provide will be able to draw that talent if they just invest a little in facilities. Most public schools have a difficult time doing this. It is the best solution to level the playing field somewhat.

I am in the same camp as Mite-dad, all privates should be put in AA. I am not aware of any private schools (that have their own hockey teams) that are not in larger cities/metropolitan areas (Twin Cities, Duluth, St. Cloud, Rochester, etc.). They draw from that area, regardless of what their enrollment is (which the school itself has established, not the population of their school district, since they don't have one). To me it is not about how good they are or the success they have had. It is also not about whether or not they have gone out and recruited and built up a strong program, with one or more trips to St. Paul. The fact is that they can, and at least for me, that is enough to have rules in place to reflect that.

[sagard]

Since 2005 we have Hill, Holy Angels, Benilde, and Cretin win AA titles. STA will join them shortly. I guess we will have to wait for a tourney with:

1 Lakeville
2 Holy Angels
3 STA
4 Hill
5 Breck
6 Benilde
7 Marshall
8 Moorhead

before these teams are put in their own tourney again. Kicking them all into AA and letting them ruin Friday night at X isn't the solution. Letting them play in a league of their own is the only eventual outcome. Just a question of when.

[stpaul]

letting them ruin Friday night at X

The largest crowds in State Tournament history were the past two semi-final Fridays. 2012 HM-Moorhead & BSM-Lakeville So. and 2013 HM-Wayzata & Edina-Duluth East. 3 of the 4 were great 1-goal games. They were hardly ruined by the presence of private schools. 19,000 people disagree with you.

[thorhockey]

19,000 people disagree with you.

..and 95% of those going to the game only to root for, and experience a private school upset - not good hockey.

[thestickler07]

19,000 people disagree with you.

..and 95% of those going to the game only to root for, and experience a private school upset - not good hockey.

Wow that's pretty pathetic.

[394 West]

19,000 people disagree with you.

..and 95% of those going to the game only to root for, and experience a private school upset - not good hockey.

You must not have been to the 2012 Benilde semi game vs Lakeville or the quarter final vs Edina. The crowd was huge for Benilde. More BSM colors flying than either of those schools.

Also the 2008 semi benilde vs Edina was completely packed with red supporters. Weather you care to like it or not BSM has a huge following not just at state but during the season and in sections.

[old goalie85]

Do they recruit fans as well ??

[Lazy Scout]

Thursdays game with Lakeville North, no student fan section, hardly a fan in sight. They even could have gotten out of school and there were still no students. Yep, big AA public school following.

[goldy313]

Just to throw it out there......

In the boys basketball tournament private schools went 10-2 against public schools and won 3 championships. Including 1 by all those "Catholic" kids at DeLaSalle.

[PuckU126]

Since 2005 we have Hill, Holy Angels, Benilde, and Cretin win AA titles. STA will join them shortly. I guess we will have to wait for a tourney with:

1 Lakeville
2 Holy Angels
3 STA
4 Hill
5 Breck
6 Benilde
7 Marshall
8 Moorhead

before these teams are put in their own tourney again. Kicking them all into AA and letting them ruin Friday night at X isn't the solution. Letting them play in a league of their own is the only eventual outcome. Just a question of when.

Yeah, the private schools are a plague to High School sports...

Too bad two of those teams are still A and AHA's program is "transitioning" (maybe Zamman can grace us with a prognosis as to when they'll make it back to the X). Plus, you forgot Lourdes; they'd be 1AA! That leaves 8AA as the only public school representative!

This scenario will never happen. 7/8 privates, come on. At least give your public schools some credit!

By your logic, since you all believe private schools are so good that they need to be segregated (and that's what you're proposing) into their own "elite class," at least the X will have the best teams out there!

[stpaul]

..and 95% of those going to the game only to root for, and experience a private school upset - not good hockey.

That's right. They were rooting for those "poor underdogs" from Wayzata.

[HShockeywatcher]

It would completely ruin high school hockey to have the privates have their own tournament. In the last 20 years only 5 private schools (25%) have won the AA title. I don't exactly see that as dominating over the public schools. 13 of last 20 years privates have won A title. That seems to be where the discrepancy is. The landscape of hockey is changing, it is not what is used to be in the 80's and 90's. Open enrollment has changed public schools and who can play where. Kids just chase after the best place they think they can play. If some want to pay $12,000-18,000 to play and get an education or open enroll to Edina for free, that is what it has become. STA is long overdue to move up but you can't use them as the only example. There are a lot of small privates that can't even compete at the A class.

While STA has now opted up, I'm curious if people understand what they are saying here. All 3 of their recent championships have gone after their last opportunity to opt up. I'm not saying it would've been bad/not supported by the community had they opted up, but the last time they could've opted up, they were coming off two seasons where they lost in sections. The core of the current students (12 seniors) were sophomores then, and 4 weren't on the team then. Only 2 were on the team's top 10 in scoring. Very hard to predict them doing as well as they have in 2 years.

I still think that the transfer/recruiting is made to be too big of an issue by some.

Look at Holy Angels in the mid-00's. They were the "go to" school for privates on the west side. They did have a good feeder in Jefferson, but there were many other kids in there from many other communities.

About five or six years ago, they had eight goalies show up and try out for the team....many were pretty good and let go - career over, no chance to transfer. These teams get saturated with superstars and implode from the inside out. Programs can get 'too hot' and draw too many strong players like a magnet. Creating dysfunction.

Take a BSM today who happen to be sitting in that "Holy Angels" position, how many more superstars can you have before the apple cart tips over? They get so deep with superstars that the young freshman or sophomores get third or fourth line playing time (meaning few shifts per game) and they see little or no PP or PK time. You saw it with the Baer situation this year --- not enough ice, time to look for more ice elsewhere. Its nice to play on a winner.....when you get to contribute.

Hill Murray seems to do an excellent job with 2nd - 4th liners developing them into a state contender year after year. They may be the closest to having the balance right.

I have said it before....will say it again. Trashcan the transfer rule completely. If MN hockey wants to keep kids playing hockey in Minnesota, provide them with the opportunity to play for a coach they like, free of politics, free of backdoor 'winks' of playing time, or alumni aided aid/elite league positions. Some teams may be able to load up quite well, but six stud forwards and 3 stud D and a goalie is all you need to win and any team would have that opportunity with an open transfer rule.

I'm guessing similar things happen at good public schools as well. One could say this is actually creating even more opportunity for students at other schools, which is a rational many have for not liking private schools. But when a kid "leaves a community" doesn't that open up a spot for another?

Just to throw it out there......

In the boys basketball tournament private schools went 10-2 against public schools and won 3 championships. Including 1 by all those "Catholic" kids at DeLaSalle.

Not sure what the jab at DeLaSalle is about, they are a good school and have had a very good basketball program for quite some time. Following the religion of the school is not a requirement to attend, in high school or college.
Do you know which AAA team opted up this year? The 4 smallest teams in AAA are DeLaSalle, Waseca, Blake and EGF, with EGF being the smallest; did they opt up?

[Welcome to the Gongshow]

Edina wins the state trny this year. (best player- Conner Hurley from Eagan and still has a house in Eagan)

Hermantown runner-up and Class A whinning coach of the decade- player Kramer recruit from Virginia.

Elk River with the Buffalo Boys.

Warroad with new Marvin employees that have rock star players that just decided to move to the metropolitan northern border for its culture.

On and On and On.



Stop whinning because you or your kid couldn't make the varsity.