minnesota high school league get a clue.

dandunnigan3 · Post by **dandunnigan3** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:12 pm

breck 10-1, south st paul 6-1. mshsl lets try and make 1a and 4a more better by changing the sections up.

PASH2 · Post by **PASH2** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:55 pm

Rumor has it that Alexandria might be joining section 4A in the near future.

hockeyfan11 · Post by **hockeyfan11** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:58 pm

quit complaning about it...

BSU Beavers · Post by **BSU Beavers** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:05 pm

Everyone keeps complaining about these Sections are too weak and need to be realigned. How come no one ever posts a solution to this problem? The MSHSL does it based on geography and trying to keep the sections balanced based on number of members, not competition. If you want to go with competition, you would have to wait until the last week to know what section you are going to be playing in. Strengths of teams and of Sections go up and down year by year. The MSHSL does a very nice job, all things considered.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:25 pm

Why doens't anybody else realize that maybe it is the A hockey factories like Breck and Warroad that should be moved up? This is SSP first chance at the A tournament, and they probably could have won their respective AA section. If teams like Breck, Warroad, SSP and Blake would play at their level instead of playing and beating up on teams below their level the problem would be solved. The A tournament should be better than this, maybe not in quality of teams, but in competitiveness of games. I am tired of hearing that we should go to a 16 team tournament, or change the sections. Anybody else remember how bad the Tier system was? Well in my opinion this is becoming just as big a farce. It is a situation such as this that makes people look down at the A tournament A good start to a solution would be to switch the format around and have the bottom 64 teams in A and the top 91 in AA. All privates in AA unless they can prove they deserve to be in A (teams like Minnehaha, and SPA). Or base the level on things such as size and success of the youth programs, availability of year round ice, get MAHA involved, etc.. Move the whole A tournament to another venue, make it less desirable to play in (they already do this in baseball). Certain A schools need to accept the fact that you're not and you shouldn't go to the state tournament every year, it is a reward for an excellant season, not a right just because your Warroad and Lourdes, so we should go 4 out of 5 years or we're not successful. It is a stupid excuse, and people from Lourdes to Warroad use it to justify playing A hockey. Wayzata went 50 years between appearances for petes sake, they should have been in A hockey according to this logic. I like the idea of a two class system, however, the current system is proving to be more and more of a farce every year.

spellmo · Post by **spellmo** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:36 pm

I think we should make 1AA and 2AA stronger... I mean Lakeville... Tartan what a joke<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... lasses.gif ALT="8)">

Hockeyisthebest21 · Post by **Hockeyisthebest21** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:43 pm

I would love to watch a good game during the state tournament. 5A vs. 1A, I waited for this game the whole year. In the 1A thread, they all would get mad for people saying this section is a joke. Turned out it was a joke 10-1 Breck. I am so glad Breck beat upon them. We do need equal sections.

Whatwillwork · Post by **Whatwillwork** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:57 pm

I do have a solution. I don't care what you do with A, keep it the same or follow AA. For AA, I suggest doing it college style, you have 4 regions and play it over 2 weekends. Duluth, Moorhead/St Cloud, Twin Cities, and Rochester/Mankato host. Seed all AA teams from 1 to whatever. Each region sends 2 teams to the State Tourney. At least this way we have the chance to have the best 8 teams in the State at the Tourney.

wdc fan · Post by **wdc fan** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:01 pm

Well....Let's see...How can you help it when schools graduate a ton at a time, then you need to rebuild....It happens... What are you going to do when you have 3 teams that are solid for years...Split them because it's to tough..To give everyone a chance... But, I'll go with what the other person said, "QUIT COMPLAINING"

joshdog · Post by **joshdog** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:20 pm

Shots were 27/22 Breck. 2-1 deep into 2nd period. AL's homegrown boys coudn't keep up with the big horses of Breck. The people that weren't there can speculate all they want. I know what the Breck coaches had to say and it would probably surprise you.

hockeystar29 · Post by **hockeystar29** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:26 pm

Have you people noticed that warroad and beck have dominated class A for years and if you havent notice breck and warroad could still compete at the AA level warroad only lost to moorhead 4-2 and moorhead is ranked 2 in AA

dandunnigan3 · Post by **dandunnigan3** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:27 pm

wadena fan how about we look at your schedule little falls mesabi east ely pequot lakes kittsen central luverne crookston red lake falls benson crosby-ironton detroit lakes you guys have already impressed the state of minnesota so it really doesn't matter how your team does in the state tournament

BSU Beavers · Post by **BSU Beavers** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:38 pm

I thought this thread was trying to look at how to make the Sections more balanced. If you want to talk schedules, then there is maybe even less wiggle room in that topic. Wadena's conference mandates that you play every team twice. They then try to play as many of their Section opponents in one game so that at seeding, there is a little less arguing. Then you try to fill in the gaps with other teams. Since some teams are contracted two or three years in advance and then usually at least a two year contract (home and home), your hands are tied sometimes. And like I said earlier, not every team reloads every year, many go in cycles. They have a down year, get better for a year and have a great year and then repeat the cycle. I can tell you the Wadena has tried to schedule other "tougher" teams, but many don't want to enter into a home and home, two year agreement with them. It is not their fault some of the teams won't play them. They have tried.

dandunnigan3 · Post by **dandunnigan3** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:41 pm

they tried against south st paul <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p">

wdc fan · Post by **wdc fan** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:00 pm

Yeah, I guess the schedule is weak... But they made it there and are trying there best... Best get beat, look at Warroad!

Linden16 · Post by **Linden16** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:01 am

Goldy, they tried your solution, it was called Tier II and it was a miserable failure. Why is everyone complaining? I think it adds credibility to class a that some of the teams are thatb good and can compete with AA teams, if we follow your suggestion to put the bottom teams in class a, everyone will complain how bad the hockey is and the kids will get no credit. Whoever wins A this year or the past years has had a damn good team and deserve to be recognized as a champ for their class. Blowouts happen, I don't remember too many scores like that in the past but Fridays games should be very competitive and whoever wins Friday will be well deserving of beiong the class a champ.

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:50 am

I agree that there are perrenial weaker sections, but any proposal to realign the sections will still result in a weak section or two. Even if you put a dot in the middle of the twin cities and created 8 pie-like slices emanating outward from there, a couple of the sections will be weak and a couple will be loaded. Besides, you can't predict which schools will be able to make a surprise run, or which "sure thing" will lose players to private schools and juniors. I'm a section 1AA dad, and I've got mixed feelings about section 1. On one hand, it gave both players and parents a real air of excitement near the end of the year knowing that our guys had a legitimate shot to make it to state. On the other hand, we knew that they had no realistic chance to do much if they did make it. If the powers that be really, really want to create a state tournament that features the actual 8 best teams, they need to seed and bracket just about the whole state. (And don't let Let's Play Hockey seed them, either; something more objective, please.) Pain in the butt, yes, but unless you want to realign sections every single year, that's the only way you're going to weed out weak teams and ensure all the best teams a shot in the state tournament. BTW, I agree with goldy. Put the private schools in AA. Here in Rochester, Lourdes is pretty blatant about recruiting and maintaining their low enrollment in order to reamain a single A school. And it's pretty irritating to see some parents open up their wallet a buy their kid a ticket to play in the state tournament along with the recruits. Sorry if I offend anyone, but that's the way I see it down here. Ideally, I'd like every kid to play with the neighbors they grew up with. Even if their team isn't one of the elite, the journey over the years with longtime friends is really the prize.

Cornermukker · Post by **Cornermukker** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:37 am

I understand the argument to have the "best" teams play in the tournament. But..... It has never been about 20 schools in any of the MSHSL sports or State tournaments. I like good hockey as much as anyone, but to just make it so a few are always a part of it doesn't make any sense. The big factor a well is and will always be MONEY. Schools and their respective districts have to keep raising activity fees. At some point they will have to cut programs / sports. It is big picture, and we have to look at that angle.. just my opinion. On a side note, I thought that last nights game between Warroad and Orono was a good example of why the " other teams " deserve to be there. ( not that Orono is not a good team)

backofnet · Post by **backofnet** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:55 am

Maybe we should go to 3 or 4 levels like Football or Basketball? Let's destroy the tournament like these sports have.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:45 am

There are a lot of things regarding the sections that the MSHSL does that don't make sense, for example moving Roseville out of 2AA into the already packed with talent 3AA. I also don't understand why South St.Paul dropped down to Class A, though I think that's a school decision, not a MSHSL decision. This year's Breck team is good enough to compete in the AA tournament, from what I've seen they're one of the top teams in the state. Remember they played yesterday with their back up goalie. I just don't see any of the other teams giving them much of a fight. With those comments in mind, I love seeing the smaller outstate schools in the tournament. Isn't that one of the things that the tourney is all about, the David v. Goliath matchups? WDC and Albert Lea didn't make the grade this year, here's hoping they learn from the experience and come back with a better prepared team.

Williamsephs · Post by **Williamsephs** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:13 am

Ok I agree that maybe the state tournament won't be the best eight teams, but it should definitely be better than it was yesterday. I posted something like this earlier but this is a little different take more related to this discussion. If you want the sections to represent the general geography of the state and want a more competitive state tournament you could just split up section 5a. It has been intentionally manufactured into the toughest section in the state (Breck, Blake, Benilde, Mahtomedi, Saint Louis Park, and Totino Grace) for the sole reason of keeping the private school's from dominating the state tournament (which punishes St. Louis Park and Mahtomedi as well). I mean think about it, the winner of that section has won 4 of the last 5 state tournaments, and all 6 of those teams were in the top ten at some point this season. They'd probably win all the State Tournaments if they didn't have to beat eachother up just to qualify. Section 5a makes no sense geographically either. Mahtomedi is in St. Paul! So why don't we split it up, put Benilde in Orono's section (they play in the same conference), put Totino-Grace and Mahtomedi back in a St. Paul section where they belong , and let Breck, Blake, and St. Louis Park slug it out in section 5a. At least that way we'll ensure there are 4 good teams in the tournament; Orono/Benilde, Blake/Breck/St.Louis Park, Mahtomedi/Totino, Warroad. That way we'll have better quarterfinal games, great semi-final games, and an awesome championship that will hopefully represent the best two teams in the state. As it is I think I can see a championship between Breck and Orono that pits the #1 team in the state versus the #6 or #7 team. Think about it, Benilde had a 1-0-1 record against Orono this year and won their conference, yet they were eliminated in the first game of the section 5a tournament with a 4 or 5 seed... I don't understand why a team such as Orono, that would most likley not have even gotten past the first round of the section 5a tournament, is the best remaining competition for Breck. I mean why don't we just play the section 5a tournament and hand them the trophy?

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:42 am

Section reassignment isnt the problem. People have been whining about section 2AA all year. It is the same section that has produced Roseville and Hastings the last 5 years and those teams went to St Paul as legitimate contenders 2 or 3 of those years. The point is:sections can be up and down. What happened Wed. afternoon happened because of Class assignment. Why are Breck and SSP in the same tournament with Albert Lea and WDC? Class A should be for AL and WDC, not Breck. But the answer isnt "Kill all the private schools" Place schools in a class based on program strength not enrollment....public and private.

upucker · Post by **upucker** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:50 am

Yes thats a very good idea Joe. Albert Lea and WDC had a very good game this morning 3-0 with Albert Lea taking a win and the freshman goalie gets a shut out. Breck should be in AA when they get the cream of the crop to come play for them it throws MSHSL rules about school size out the window.

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minnesota high school league get a clue.

minnesota high school league get a clue.

Re: minnesota high school league get a clue.

Re: minnesota high school league get a clue.

Solutions?

Solutions?

1AA and 2AA

weak sections

Re: weak sections

Re: weak sections

Re: weak sections

class A

wadena

Are we talking schedules or sections?

wadena

Re: minnesota high school league get a clue.

goldy

Balancing Sections

Re: minnesota high school league get a clue.

Re: minnesota high school league get a clue.

Sections

better sections

Re: better sections, better class assignment

You got it Joe