Twins Rotation

[goldy313]

Minnesota Twins opening day line up from 1982:
1-Jim Eisenrich cf
2-Gary Ward dh
3-Dave Engle rf
4-Roy Smalley ss
5-Kent Hrbek 1b
6-Gary Gaetti 3b
7-Butch Wynager c
8-Rob Wilfong 2b
9-Mickey Hatcher lf

Pete Redfern p

As the year went on Wynager and Smalley were traded to the Yankees, replaced by Tim Laudner and Johnny Castino. The opening day roster isn't too bad, with guys like Ron Washington in there as well. It's hard to believe they lost 100 games until you look at the pitchers. Redfern (he was a #1 overall pick?), Terry Felton, Paul Boris, Ron Davis, etc.

30 years ago Butch Wynager made $19,000, Rod Carew made $140,000.

Tony Oliva won the batting title his rookie year, Rod Carew won the batting title in his 3rd year, will Mauer equal that? In the past 41 years Twins have won 11 batting titles, better than 1 in 4, only Boston with 13 has more. During a 29 year span in that time only 3 batting crowns went outside of Minnesota, Boston and KC.

[Irishmans Shanty]

1. Eisenrich- already battling a nervous disorder, career came to a halt when 8,000 fans in RF/CF at Fenway chanted "shake". Now playing Amateur ball in Cloud area?
2. Ward-traded to Rangers for John Butcher and Mike Smithson during Twins pennant drive in '84
3. Engle-Scout with Angels' system
4. Smalley-Traded to Yanks for Greg Gagne, Ron Davis, and Paul Boris in April of '82, Smalley returned and played role in '87 championship team
5. Hrbek - Cornerstone of 2 world series, Hunting/Fishing TV personality, great guy to have on your celebrity scramble team
6. Gaetti - cornerstone of '87 championship, found JC and had falling out with Hrbek. Spat escalated as Gman snubbed Hrbek during All-star game introductions when he displayed "Jesus Lives" on his batting glove. Heir apparent to Billy Graham?
7. Wynager - ?
8. Wilfong - ?
9. Hatcher - base coach with Dodgers?

Some of '82 Staff
Redfern (5-11)-?
Felton-went (0-13) walked an astounding 76 batters in 117 innings.
Viola (4-9) started career 11-25, cornerstone of '87 championship, flopped when he went to Mets
Brade Havens (10-14)
Al Williams (9-7)
Ron Davis posted 49 saves for the Twins in 1984. Could had 60+ if he converted at Nathan and Guardado efficiency.

ANALYSIS
As of '82 season, very few pieces of the '87 championship were there yet. However, the ones already playing were the young homegrown prospects (Gaetti, Hrbek, Viola). If you compare '82 to today it goes like this. Hrbek=Morneau, Gaetti = ?, Puckett = Mauer, Viola = Liriano, Santana = Blyleven, Reardon = Nathan. Bad news is Gaetti isn't here yet, good news is Blyleven, Reardon are already here. The Gagnes, Brunanskys, and Gladdens need to be groomed or acquired through free-agency.

[goldy313]

Actually a whole bunch of the '87 team was there aside from the pitchers. Tim Laudner caught 93 games, Hrbek, Gaetti, and Brunansky were also regulars. Randy Bush and Sal Butera also had regular roles.

Eisenrich was a rookie in '82, he went on to play 15 years in the majors with a .292 average but never did get his problems completely under control, missing entire seasons and parts of seasons.

Wynager is a hitting coach with Milwaukee I think.

[ChrisK]

Jim Eisenreich had Tourette's Syndrome but didn't figure it out until after he left the Twins. He tore up the amateur leagues around St.Cloud until the Royals took a chance on him where he did OK. Then in 1993 he went to the Phillies and played on one of my favorite World Series teams full of wild and crazy characters. He ended up winning a World Series with the Marlins in 1997 and finished with a lifetime .290 batting average. Not bad for a guy the Twins gave up on and if their medical staff would've had a clue may have spent a few more years in the majors, which I'm sure pitchers playing in St.Cloud area in the mid-'80s would have appreciated.

[Irishmans Shanty]

Three things come from last night's game. First, Santana is hitting his summer hot streak yet again. This season is falling right in line with the last three. Decent start, slow for his standards, then a ridiculous run of something like 15 starts without a loss to come. Santana will not put up a gaudy number of wins this year. With six wins and roughtly 20 starts left, he could hit twenty, but to me it doesn't matter. I can't think of another pitcher who I would take over him. He is one of only a few that can take the mound and completely step on any lineup's throat. Come Cy Young time, he will be 17-8, lead both leagues in ERA and K's and will finish behind Mussina, and Schilling in voting. That's fine, and more importantly, I think Santana is fine with it as well. I credit any star who stays in KC, Minnesota, SD, Seattle, Milwaukee etc. and doesn't gripe, it's a no brainer that if they were in N.Y., Boston, or Philly, they would get 20X the recognition and endorsements. Secondly, the Twins are clearly a better hitting team than last year. Here's why, this years's edition of Mauer, Morneau, and Cuddyer are light years ahead of last year. Also, Kubel looks like a hit, no just because of last night, but over the last two weeks he's shown he can play. Third, the Twins are clearly a better team at home, they play with more confidence and it leads to more wins. As this core matures the Wins on the road will come.

[packerboy]

Good points IS.

Maybe we can add Cuddy and Kubel to Mauer ,Morneau, Santana, and Liriano.

I see they are sending Batista out. I give Ryan a lot of credit for that. Its admitting a mistake and taking your medicine and moving on.

The plan is to put Bartlett at SS and Castro at 3rd. Maybe we can add Bartlett to the list or at least find out....which makes sense right now.

I watched the game last night from the 5th inning on. Very entertaining. I dont have a problem with following and supporting a team that is in transition. No matter what moves they make, they wont contend this year but I thnk they can finish above .500 and be fun to watch.

[Irishmans Shanty]

Batista going, well he can thank Cuddyer for that, his play has made Batista obsolute. Batista, in his defense was not tragically awful. He hit the way they thought and his defense was what it always has been. They tried to catch lighting in a bottle on the cheap and it didn't happen.

[packerboy]

The paper says he wasnt giving them what they wanted offensively. I dont if the expectations were reasonable but anyway, why let Batista go and keep White?

At least Batista has 5 HRS and can play a position. mayb White is next to go.

[Irishmans Shanty]

If Batista goes then White should have no chance. White has been a bigger disapointment than Batista, however, I think White has a two year deal and Batista had one. With Sierra still injured and probably one swing away from the DL at any given time, the Twins may ride out White for a while and see if he can turn it around. Unfortunately for White but good for us is that his chances to get action will be limited with other guys beginning to heat up. White was given the job and had a 100 AB audition. It would be a travesty right now if Redmond, Kubel, or Cuddyer loose AB's to White.

[packerboy]

Anyway, back to the game and Gardy.

Its the bottom of the 9th and Castillo leads of with a double. Ford lays down a bunt too hard and Castillo is thrwn out at 3rd.

Why bunt? Why not take 3 shots at a hit? If the bunt works they walk Mauer.... and the double play is in order.

I dont get it.

[Irishmans Shanty]

I don't mind the bunt, but it's execution like that can get me to fall out of love with a player, in this case Ford needs to get it done. You could see Gardy was pissed, and I know exactly why. Gardy is thinking why did I just see a guy bunt right into the defense coverage? I know Ford's problem, he is tortured genius. His mind processes like a computer. Ford's SAT or IQ scores are probably a solid standard deviation above the general public. Ford's thinkng, I'm moving a guy to third... bunt towards first no matter what. Lew, not when the 1st baseman is 50 feet away. In this case, put it down third, Castillo runs well and is going to get a good jump. Make the pitcher react, move, bend, field, set, and throw. A guy like Ford, is just like the number one ranked kid in the sophomore class, he's brilliant but he doesn't have the ability to improvise or go against the grain when the situation calls for it. This isn't the first Ford brain fart, this goes back to him not having his spikes on a couple of years ago when his number was called.

[goldy313]

Why bunt? Because you get the runner to 3rd with 1 out and 3 pretty good contact hitters coming up, a wild pitch, passed ball, any ball hit to the outfield or up the middle wins the game. Add to that Lou isn't exactly a contact hitter or on anything resembling a hot streak now. Ford screwed it up, you don't bunt down the first base side allowing a play at third, he's an idiot to do that. Since the winning run was on second and if the Red Sox thought Ford was at all a threat they would have walked him. I would have bunted too.

Going with all these young guys is good, but unlike 1982, most of their young guys aren't rookies and it will take big bucks to keep guys like Santana, Nathan, Rincon, and Cuddyer who will all be unrestricted free agents at the end of their current contracts. Mauer and Morneau will both be resrticted free agents soon as well. Only Liriano, Bonser, and Kubel are rookies and their all extremely unproven at this point.

[packerboy]

I agree that the execution was bad. He should have taken the pitch. Teh ony place he could bunt that pitch is where he did of foul it off.

I dont like to bunt in that situation because:

1. The bunt doesnt always work.

2. If it does, you take the bat out of a guys hands who is hitting .380.

3. You have your leadoff hitter with decent speed in scoring position with nobody out...why give up an out to get him in.

4. Why the hell is Lew Ford batting second?

[Irishmans Shanty]

That is something I believe we can all agree on. Why is Ford batting #2?

[goldy313]

I see Ford got himself sat down tonight, I kind of like this new "tough" Gardy where no one is above the law. Recently he has sat Morneau, Hunter, and Castillo all of whom have came back better for it. Hunter's bat isn't great, but at least he walked a couple of times and his effort in the field is back up there.

Radke's fourth consecutive good start is good news, I thought this game might be trouble the way the Red Sox can hit, but he looked good. After all the troubles out west I'm glad the Twins have put on a good effort this homestand so far.

This upcoming month is probably the easiest stretch on the Twins schedule, hopefully they can make up some ground

[jimjackjohnmmmm]

Morneaus heatin up!

[Irishmans Shanty]

1. Hey Lew, I know you saw Punto get the bunt down tonight. See what happens when you don't bunt into the coverage.
2. As of June 14: Morneau with 15 HR and 51 RBI's, in addition to the deep ball, I think I have seen a sprinkling of singles from the big fella as well.
3. How are the Red Sox 10 over, who are they playing? What a lifeless group they have been through two nights, and that bullpen, wow is that bad.
4. Wish I would have had the Red Sox feed the last two nights, would have been nice to here the lobsta accented NESN announcas trying to homa up those games. "Joe Maua, singles to lef"
5. Twins charge to the top has started. Caught the Tribe, who's next?

[ChrisK]

Did Morneau hit that grand slam to the opposite field? He's been on a tear the last week, raising his average 27 points with 4 HRs. He's looked more confident at the plate when I've seen him and it seems like he's going opposite field more often instead of trying to pull everything.

The Bosox did just put former closer and current setup man Keith Foulke on the DL which might have put their pen in a bit of disarray. They do have Jonathan Papelbon, the rookie phenom closer, once they get the ball to him the game is usually over.

And I believe Radke had another good start last night, despite another rocky first inning. It looks like he and I won't be shipping out to Rochester, much to packerboy's chagrin.

[Blue Breeze]

Nice to see the Twins play well again, although I would like to see a string like this on the road. The rotation has been much better and the bullpen seems to be settling into place with Reyes, Rincon, and Nathan at the back. I'm hoping at the new stadium the right field porch is about 290 feet with our young lefties like Mauer, Morneau, Kubel, and first round pick Parmelee.

[jimjackjohnmmmm]

Silva pitches a great seven innings and kubel homers again. This season is starting become interesting, kinda like vikes. When was the last time a twins starting pitcher threw a bad game??

[EREmpireStrikesBack]

Carlos Silva's last start.

Trading Castro, good move. Bringing up Bartlett, good move. Just please, please, please get rid of Rondell when Stewart is healthy. There is no way Kubel can ever see the minors again and there is noway Rondell should ever take another at bat for the Twins. Also, get rid of Lohse when you get a chance. Get an ok utility player for him and nobody will question you.

My words of wisdom for the Twins. Take them or leave 'em.

[Irishmans Shanty]

This goes without saying but this sweep really magnifies why the Twins are an infinitely better team with a good Radke and Silva. Who knows whether this tandem can go back to back like this again but if it happens once I suppose it can happen twice. As far as the bats go, it's been a long time since there has been a hope that someone in their lineup can change the game with one swing of the bat, Morneau, Kubel, and Cuddyer all seem to have volunteered. This weeks personell moves are applauded as well. Ryan made the decision to clear out some veterans and I think the younger guys sticking around will respond. Bartlett's ability to get on and advance all the way to third on a base hit to left led to a much needed run that seemed redundant at the time, not to mention his defensive gem against Manny. Good move in trading Castro, I see no reason to suit up Rodriguez, Punto, Castillo, Bartlett, and Castro together, aren't they primarily the same guy? I believe Denny Hocking served all those roles himself at one time.

[packerboy]

It isnt just the fact thet they are veterans, they are also boat anchors.

Kubel has done more to help the team offensively in 2 weeks than Castro, Batista and White have done all season....combined.

None of it will mean anything without starting pitching. If they can keep that going, it could get interesting by August.

Last year they finished a few games over .500 without any offense. If they can get the same starting pitching as last year for the rest of the season..............

[goldy313]

I don't think it will take too long for major league advance scouts to figure out how to pitch to Kubel and Bartlett so I'm not entirely sold on the Twins new found hitting just yet, but they have been, along with Morneau and Cuddyer in spots, very promising. The Red Sox, statistically, have worse pitching than the Twins and the Twins have been darn good at home this season so winning the series isn't that big of a shock, but the sweep is.

What is even more promising is that the Twins held the Red Sox to 6 runs in 3 games, even better the 3 starters held the Sox to just 2 runs, each a solo HR.

Hopefully the Twins can keep some of the momentum going on the road.

[EREmpireStrikesBack]

Easiest solution: No more road games.

Oh, and get rid of Rondell.

And finally, cheer for the Yankees.