They were saying on the radio last night that the Dodgers are missing quite a few players due to injury and the Cubs of course are missing Derek Lee. The other thing to keep in mind is that the NL teams don't have a regular DH which makes their lineup thinner than the average AL lineup. That said, anytime Carlos Silva goes 8 innings you have to figure he's not facing a high quality lineup.
After seeing the Chisox sweep the Cards with two of the games huge blowouts, the winner of the AL Central will have to be considered a favorite to win it all. I still think the Tigers pitching will falter later in the season and the White Sox come out on top.
I was up north last week, we just had a radio and I was flipping the AM dial around when I caught the end of the 20-2 or whatever White Sox-Card game. It came in better than the Twins game and I had to move the dial around to make sure we'd heard the score right.
Twins 34-34 on 6/18
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
Weak NL lineups
But the Twins dont have a DH either.
Even with Derek Lee, the Cubs lineup wasnt very scary.
I dont know who the big guns are that the Dodgers have that are out.
Big market teams like Chicago and LA in the NL really dont have much.
Anyway, as IS pointed out, their offense is a lot better this year. Now, they are getting the same pitchng that they had last year with a legitimate major league offense.
If that continues , they may be the best team yet not to make the playoffs under the most recent format.
BTW, Does Lew Ford have embarrasing pictures of some Twins upper management guys? Why is he constantly playing? Denny Hocking looks like a Hall of Famer next to him.
Even with Derek Lee, the Cubs lineup wasnt very scary.
I dont know who the big guns are that the Dodgers have that are out.
Big market teams like Chicago and LA in the NL really dont have much.
Anyway, as IS pointed out, their offense is a lot better this year. Now, they are getting the same pitchng that they had last year with a legitimate major league offense.
If that continues , they may be the best team yet not to make the playoffs under the most recent format.
BTW, Does Lew Ford have embarrasing pictures of some Twins upper management guys? Why is he constantly playing? Denny Hocking looks like a Hall of Famer next to him.
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EREmpireStrikesBack
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Irishmans Shanty
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The Twins are six above level, even the biggest Homers in the world couldn't have predicted this three weeks ago. As a team, to no fault of their own, they continue to tread water in the standings, however, some real interesting individual stories are beginning to unfold as we reach the backside of '06. A 23 year old catcher hitting .389 thru 257 AB's, a 23 year old lefty who embarasses whoever is in his way, and a skinny 25 year old Canuck with 62 RBI's.
Early zeros from the staff, early runs from the bats, two out RBI's, Lohse smiling and conversing with teamates on the field, opponents unwilling or unable to make plays, good defense, 30,000 on a weeknight, prospects producing, are you kidding me, is this the same team that was annihlated in Detroit and pissed away wins out west back in early June?
With everything going well, I believe the biggest surprise is Bartlett. He actually looks like a guy who could have some productive longevity with this club.
-He runs well and is aggressive(going 1st to 3rd on a base hit to left
last week)
-he gets on base (.364 BA can't be sustained over long haul, but do you
notice he gets beaned a lot, he just has a knack for finding his way
on)
-range (can make plays going to his right)
-arm strength (hoses a guy after short hop eats him up last night)
-he's been humbled (at 27 not making the roster out of spring training
lit a fire in him, something the enigma, Guzman never had)
-poise and moxy (he looks and plays like he's been there for a while)
Things are going well, so I'll say something that I will probably regret, but I believe Bartlett can do everything that Gagne could and then some.
Early zeros from the staff, early runs from the bats, two out RBI's, Lohse smiling and conversing with teamates on the field, opponents unwilling or unable to make plays, good defense, 30,000 on a weeknight, prospects producing, are you kidding me, is this the same team that was annihlated in Detroit and pissed away wins out west back in early June?
With everything going well, I believe the biggest surprise is Bartlett. He actually looks like a guy who could have some productive longevity with this club.
-He runs well and is aggressive(going 1st to 3rd on a base hit to left
last week)
-he gets on base (.364 BA can't be sustained over long haul, but do you
notice he gets beaned a lot, he just has a knack for finding his way
on)
-range (can make plays going to his right)
-arm strength (hoses a guy after short hop eats him up last night)
-he's been humbled (at 27 not making the roster out of spring training
lit a fire in him, something the enigma, Guzman never had)
-poise and moxy (he looks and plays like he's been there for a while)
Things are going well, so I'll say something that I will probably regret, but I believe Bartlett can do everything that Gagne could and then some.
Points
Great points Shanty, this team looked dead in the water a month ago. It appears, as someone else has already pointed out, that a lot of their problems may have related to the quality of their competition. Even if this team doesn't make the playoffs there are a lot of reasons to watch them beginning with Mauer and Liriano.
Though he deserves a lot of the blame for the free agent signings over the winter, some credit should go to Ryan for shaking up the pitching staff after a month of futility and cutting some of his losses by releasing Batista. I was a bit surprised at the speed with which he made the moves. It would be even better if he unloaded White and managed to get a warm body for Lohse.
packerboy, you're right about the Dodgers' injuries, the only veteran batter on the DL is Bill Mueller (remember him from trade talks last year?) and Gagne is really the only star player on the DL for the Dodgers. And I too wonder why Loooo Ford is still getting regular at bats, it's not like he's turned a corner after last year's mediocre season in fact his numbers are worse this year.
Though he deserves a lot of the blame for the free agent signings over the winter, some credit should go to Ryan for shaking up the pitching staff after a month of futility and cutting some of his losses by releasing Batista. I was a bit surprised at the speed with which he made the moves. It would be even better if he unloaded White and managed to get a warm body for Lohse.
packerboy, you're right about the Dodgers' injuries, the only veteran batter on the DL is Bill Mueller (remember him from trade talks last year?) and Gagne is really the only star player on the DL for the Dodgers. And I too wonder why Loooo Ford is still getting regular at bats, it's not like he's turned a corner after last year's mediocre season in fact his numbers are worse this year.
Bartlett bandwagon etc
Bartlett has done well so far but dont get carried away IS.
One thing that strikes me is how far off they were on the team they brought north in April? Its only June and ther have been some big changes both in the everyday lineup and in the rotation.
Its interesting that the resurgence has been engineered by young guys they already had and not free agents.
But why did Liriano start the season in the pen; why Castro, why Batista?
I wonder what their record would be if they started the season with the guys they have now.
I credit Lew Ford for the streak. He should play more. He is so silky smooth in the outfield and man what a bat.
One thing that strikes me is how far off they were on the team they brought north in April? Its only June and ther have been some big changes both in the everyday lineup and in the rotation.
Its interesting that the resurgence has been engineered by young guys they already had and not free agents.
But why did Liriano start the season in the pen; why Castro, why Batista?
I wonder what their record would be if they started the season with the guys they have now.
I credit Lew Ford for the streak. He should play more. He is so silky smooth in the outfield and man what a bat.
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Irishmans Shanty
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Packerboy...You're right, I got a little carried away, must have been the late night tonic talking.
The more Ford has to play, the more the Organization finds out that he can't. Ford is smart, he knows this, he doesn't even want to be on the field that much. Kubel's non-'05 season, Hunter's broken foot, and Stewart's plantar fasciautittialfjoqjwelajfaifjis have made a once a week guy into a regular over the last 1.5 years. Poor Ford was batting in the #3 hole a lot to finish last year. If Ford plays 5 times a month you can put up with the fact that he hits everything off the plate or within 5 feet of it, but when you have to watch it nightly, its tough.
The more Ford has to play, the more the Organization finds out that he can't. Ford is smart, he knows this, he doesn't even want to be on the field that much. Kubel's non-'05 season, Hunter's broken foot, and Stewart's plantar fasciautittialfjoqjwelajfaifjis have made a once a week guy into a regular over the last 1.5 years. Poor Ford was batting in the #3 hole a lot to finish last year. If Ford plays 5 times a month you can put up with the fact that he hits everything off the plate or within 5 feet of it, but when you have to watch it nightly, its tough.
Gardy has always done a good job keeping everybody involved and looking at the Twins roster their bench consists of Ford, Sierra, White, Rodriguez, and Redmond. There just isn't a lot of options there, Redmond can't play everyday and they have to keep an infielder on the bench leaving the 3 amigos, Sierra is hitting the ball well enough that hopefully he an be a viable DH option otherwise we'll be stuck with sweet Lew.
Gardy was on KFAN this morning and pointed out that when they went 2-7 on their west coast trip they actually picked up a game on the AL Central leaders, so not picking up a game in this recent hot streak doesn't bother him much. The fact that they pitched well enough to pick up 5 games during that West coast swing but couldn't field or hit does, but the turn around came after that. Maybe I read between the lines too much but he made it sound like Morneau had to either turn it around or pack his bags for Rochester, whatever he said during that closed door meeting, Justin really turned it around after that.
Gardy was on KFAN this morning and pointed out that when they went 2-7 on their west coast trip they actually picked up a game on the AL Central leaders, so not picking up a game in this recent hot streak doesn't bother him much. The fact that they pitched well enough to pick up 5 games during that West coast swing but couldn't field or hit does, but the turn around came after that. Maybe I read between the lines too much but he made it sound like Morneau had to either turn it around or pack his bags for Rochester, whatever he said during that closed door meeting, Justin really turned it around after that.
Talk is cheap
Morneau was a team leader in RBIs and HRs when Gardy sat down with him. If they would have sent him down they would have sent their leading HR and RBI guy to the minors....for swinging at a bad pitch.
If Gardy sitting down with a guy will make him into a better hitter, why the hell doesnt he sit down with Hunter. Hunter swings at bad pitches and gets himself out constantly and in key situations.
I dont have any problem with Gardy involving everyone but why does everyone have to include Ford ? We dont have any players in the system better than him?
If Gardy sitting down with a guy will make him into a better hitter, why the hell doesnt he sit down with Hunter. Hunter swings at bad pitches and gets himself out constantly and in key situations.
I dont have any problem with Gardy involving everyone but why does everyone have to include Ford ? We dont have any players in the system better than him?
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Irishmans Shanty
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More good news from the Dome
It's possible that discussion occured last night or this morning, Hunter just delivers a salami in the top of the first. Looked like a good low pitch he hit. The 10 am start LA time means most Dodger fans will wake up to a four run deficit.packerboy wrote: If Gardy sitting down with a guy will make him into a better hitter, why the hell doesnt he sit down with Hunter. Hunter swings at bad pitches and gets himself out constantly and in key situations.
About time
Its about time he stuck his oar in the water.
But this is a good sign. Lets get everybody involved.....ah, you too Lew.
But this is a good sign. Lets get everybody involved.....ah, you too Lew.
Hunter still has as many hits and an OBP higher than Morneau, his power numbers aren't comparable but he makes up for that in the field.
Morneau's problem weren't as much with his bat as with his defense when he got in Gardy's doghouse, though he wasn't hitting .240 then either. He reminded me of Dave Kingman, could hit the heck out of the ball when he touched it but couldn't field his position or drive the ball when it mattered. Sub .240/25-30 HR hitters are out there, but not worth the position spot in the roster if they can't field. Justin figured that out and now is a .280 hitter plus at least shows some interest in the field, both big improvements over the past season plus first 2 months of the year.[/quote]
Morneau's problem weren't as much with his bat as with his defense when he got in Gardy's doghouse, though he wasn't hitting .240 then either. He reminded me of Dave Kingman, could hit the heck out of the ball when he touched it but couldn't field his position or drive the ball when it mattered. Sub .240/25-30 HR hitters are out there, but not worth the position spot in the roster if they can't field. Justin figured that out and now is a .280 hitter plus at least shows some interest in the field, both big improvements over the past season plus first 2 months of the year.[/quote]
Almost halfway
If I would have been told in April that at this point the Twins would be 42-35, I would not have even flinched and figured that they would be 5 games out of 1st and in a dog fight for the wild card.
They have 3 games with the Brewers and then go to KC. They could be 45-36 at the half way point.
They could win 90 plus ballgames, have the league batting champ and the Cy Young award winner.,...and not make the playoffs.
They have 3 games with the Brewers and then go to KC. They could be 45-36 at the half way point.
They could win 90 plus ballgames, have the league batting champ and the Cy Young award winner.,...and not make the playoffs.
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Irishmans Shanty
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Times have changed
A few seasons ago there were some rumblings about changing teams around into new divisions so that they could all be somewhat equal. The very soft AL Central was the culprit at the time. The AL East and West were clearly deeper, those in the national media said "When will any of these Central teams be a factor? Many of them are small market teams." The Sox are not small market, but they are clearly the bastard son of Chicago. Well, it has finally happened, the clique of sports being cyclical has proven to be accurate again. Though the semester break doesn't start until July 11, game 81 for the Twins will be Monday. The Twins could be flirting with 10 over and be double digit games behind not one team, but two. Through 81 games, the power base has certainly shifted from the NL to the AL and from the edges to the middle.
It's only a matter of time before even the heavy hitters like Steve Phillips, Mike and Mike, John Kruk, Herald Reynolds, Peter Gammons (hopefully), Tim Kirkjian, and Kevin Kennedy start talking about the Twins in terms of "It's a good thing for NY, Bos, and the West Champ that they aren't going to be in the playoffs, who would want Santana and Liriano 4 times in a five game series. The Twins would not be the best team in the playoffs, but in a five game series they could be a problem for anyone.
It's only a matter of time before even the heavy hitters like Steve Phillips, Mike and Mike, John Kruk, Herald Reynolds, Peter Gammons (hopefully), Tim Kirkjian, and Kevin Kennedy start talking about the Twins in terms of "It's a good thing for NY, Bos, and the West Champ that they aren't going to be in the playoffs, who would want Santana and Liriano 4 times in a five game series. The Twins would not be the best team in the playoffs, but in a five game series they could be a problem for anyone.
Playoff team
Well IS , with the Cy Young winner and runner up in your rotation with a top notch closer and the leagues leading hitter in your lineup, the Twins would not be the best team in the playoffs but darn well might be the best playoff team.
We Twins fans benefitted the last few years by being in a weak division and we are now paying for that. Going back further , we would not have had a World Series in '87 but for a weak division.
This team is better than the ones that made the playoffs recently but wont be there.
We Twins fans benefitted the last few years by being in a weak division and we are now paying for that. Going back further , we would not have had a World Series in '87 but for a weak division.
This team is better than the ones that made the playoffs recently but wont be there.
The Baseball Tonight crew still foam at the mouth over the Cardinals, Mets, Red Sox, and Yankees giving the AL Central and the Reds almost no respect. The Tigers did go 2-5 at home against the Sox and Yankees recently which may contribute to it some, but considering that the Tigers would have a 6 game lead in the AL East as of today it's becoming a bit more sensationalism than journalism. If it wasn't for Joe Mauer or Roger Clemens the Twins recent streak would not be mentioned on the program.
By contrast the PTI guys made the point yesterday that only 1 team from the AL East will make the playoffs and that the winner of the AL East may very well be undeserving of a spot as the Tigers, White Sox, Twins, and A's might be the best 4 teams in baseball come September.
I realize that ESPN may not be (aside from Bob Lee and Outside the Lines) the most journalistic of all the channels, geez they employ Jay Marriotti for his opinion for Pete's sake.
By contrast the PTI guys made the point yesterday that only 1 team from the AL East will make the playoffs and that the winner of the AL East may very well be undeserving of a spot as the Tigers, White Sox, Twins, and A's might be the best 4 teams in baseball come September.
I realize that ESPN may not be (aside from Bob Lee and Outside the Lines) the most journalistic of all the channels, geez they employ Jay Marriotti for his opinion for Pete's sake.
Perspective
Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves guys, yes both the Tigers and White Sox have huge leads but the season is still less than half done. My gut tells me that the Tigers will fall back to earth before the end of the season and even though it's usually more interested in filling itself with beer than prognosticating, I'm inclined to go with the gut on this.
Kenny Rogers is not a good 2nd half pitcher and I just don't see the rest of that young staff holding up against the pressure from both the Twins and White Sox. A lot of the good Tigers hitters are injury prone also. Not to mention Cleveland which lay dormant for part of last year before almost stealing the division from the White Sox.
It will be interesting to see how the Tigers, White Sox and Indians fare against a Twins staff that now includes Liriano. The trouble is the Twins have to sweep a few of those series to get things close again.
Kenny Rogers is not a good 2nd half pitcher and I just don't see the rest of that young staff holding up against the pressure from both the Twins and White Sox. A lot of the good Tigers hitters are injury prone also. Not to mention Cleveland which lay dormant for part of last year before almost stealing the division from the White Sox.
It will be interesting to see how the Tigers, White Sox and Indians fare against a Twins staff that now includes Liriano. The trouble is the Twins have to sweep a few of those series to get things close again.
too far ahead
I dont think that the Tigrs are going to play .680 for the season but if they play only .500 ball the rest of the season, they will win 96 games.
No way they will not be in the playoffs.
I dont have much of a problem witht the 'lack of respect' the AL Central gets. Its only a half of a season.
Remember how ga ga everybody was over Cleveland because they were great for a half a year.
The AL Central has the Sox who are World Champs but it also has KC. The teams in between are relative new comers and unproven.
No way they will not be in the playoffs.
I dont have much of a problem witht the 'lack of respect' the AL Central gets. Its only a half of a season.
Remember how ga ga everybody was over Cleveland because they were great for a half a year.
The AL Central has the Sox who are World Champs but it also has KC. The teams in between are relative new comers and unproven.
No backsliding
The last 2 games have been like dejay vue all over again.
No timely hitting and shakey pitching. They were darn lucky they didnt get swept by KC.
Not good.
No timely hitting and shakey pitching. They were darn lucky they didnt get swept by KC.
Not good.
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Irishmans Shanty
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Liriano vs. Doc
Where does Liriano stack up against a couple of rookie phenoms that went on to more future stardom? For those who remember the summers of '81 and '84 two rookie pitchers, Fernando and Doc Gooden respectively, took the Bigs and a limited national media by storm with their dominating performances. With the newbie, ESPN devoting its coverage to polo, Australian Rules Football, and various tape-delayed lumberjack competitions this meant the only national coverage or reporting came from Saturday's Game of the Week, Monday Night Baseball, and This Week in Baseball.
Rec Inn Hits SO ERA
Gooden 17-9 218 161 276 2.60
Valenzuela 13-7 192 140 180 2.48
Liriano 9-1 81 59 94 1.99
Conclusion:
In a day when we are oversaturated with media coverage, how does Liriano fly under the Radar on the national seen? Liriano has a chance, and I guess that's the key at this point, to blow away what Doc and Fernando did. So where's the love for Liriano, I know it's starting to heat up, but the buzz around him is nowhere near what Gooden and Fernando had by July of their rookie years.
Rec Inn Hits SO ERA
Gooden 17-9 218 161 276 2.60
Valenzuela 13-7 192 140 180 2.48
Liriano 9-1 81 59 94 1.99
Conclusion:
In a day when we are oversaturated with media coverage, how does Liriano fly under the Radar on the national seen? Liriano has a chance, and I guess that's the key at this point, to blow away what Doc and Fernando did. So where's the love for Liriano, I know it's starting to heat up, but the buzz around him is nowhere near what Gooden and Fernando had by July of their rookie years.
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EREmpireStrikesBack
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Things are starting to pick up for him. But along with the oversaturation that you speak of, that means we are getting all kinds of news on other happenings as well. World Cup, NBA Draft, NHL FA, NFL Training Camp... it's not all about baseball just because it is baseball season.
Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls
Liriano not famous yet
I have been watching baseball now for over 40 years. I have never seen anybody like Liriano. Nobody.
I remember Mark 'The Bird' Fidrych who won 20 or so his rookie year and was voted to the All Star game his rookie year. He was a phenom but he wasn't as dominant as Liriano.
Liriano is the most dominant rookie pitcher I have ever seen. He is 9-1 with an ERA under 2. He has Bob Gibson like stuff and numbers...but as a rookie.
He is the most impressive rookie baseball has seen in a long time. He could win the Cy Young.
But IS is right..it doesnt seem like anybody cares. Maybe for his sake, thats good. Keep things simple for the youngster.
I remember Mark 'The Bird' Fidrych who won 20 or so his rookie year and was voted to the All Star game his rookie year. He was a phenom but he wasn't as dominant as Liriano.
Liriano is the most dominant rookie pitcher I have ever seen. He is 9-1 with an ERA under 2. He has Bob Gibson like stuff and numbers...but as a rookie.
He is the most impressive rookie baseball has seen in a long time. He could win the Cy Young.
But IS is right..it doesnt seem like anybody cares. Maybe for his sake, thats good. Keep things simple for the youngster.
Liriano
I'd have to say Gooden's rookie year was pretty phenomenal. A 19 year old striking out 276 batters, wow. Liriano's in his company right now but he has to sustain it for the rest of the season. The player that comes to my mind is Scott Erickson who had a great start to the 1991 season before flaming out but Liriano is a better pitcher than Erickson.
In addition to ER's point, Liriano's profile is lower because he plays for a small market team. If he makes the All-Star team though, I'm sure they'll be talking about him even if he doesn't make it in the game. Now that I think about it, Erickson was slated to start the All-Star game in 1991 but got hurt and Jack Morris started instead. Maybe the fact that the Twins are in third place in their division also keeps Liriano under the radar.
In addition to ER's point, Liriano's profile is lower because he plays for a small market team. If he makes the All-Star team though, I'm sure they'll be talking about him even if he doesn't make it in the game. Now that I think about it, Erickson was slated to start the All-Star game in 1991 but got hurt and Jack Morris started instead. Maybe the fact that the Twins are in third place in their division also keeps Liriano under the radar.
The fact that Liriano is pitching in Minnesota and not New York or Los Angeles plays a big part in why he doesn't get the National attention. Another reason might be look at who he has put up these stats against: Only one team, the Dodgers, had a winning record when Liriano started against them. 5 of his wins come against NL teams and the NL is horrendous, His ERA against winning teams is 5.0, giving up 10 runs in 18 innings, 7 in 3.2 innings in 2 outings against the Tigers. Coming out of the Bullpen probably had a lot to do with it, but as was pointed out today in the paper he has yet to start in a meaningful game. That will change come mid July when the Twins have the White Sox and Tigers in back to back series. I'm not saying Liriano isn't a dominat pitcher, just pointing out a couple of reasons he doesn't get all the attenyion he maybe should.
I just came back from 2 games in KC, stopped by in Des Moines and watched a AAA game this afternoon. The Twins trouble on the road continues and is the downfall of this team, they just look lost. They're a putrid .350 on the road in the AL, they have zero chance of getting into any kind of contention with that level of play. No one will accuse KC of being a good team, but they were much better than the Twins this series and the Twins are only 3-3 at KC, the worst team in the AL.
I just came back from 2 games in KC, stopped by in Des Moines and watched a AAA game this afternoon. The Twins trouble on the road continues and is the downfall of this team, they just look lost. They're a putrid .350 on the road in the AL, they have zero chance of getting into any kind of contention with that level of play. No one will accuse KC of being a good team, but they were much better than the Twins this series and the Twins are only 3-3 at KC, the worst team in the AL.
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Irishmans Shanty
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All Star game, Game or Exhibition
Due to AJ's victory in the fan poll, it now means Liriano will get a couple of well deserved days off. Now I could care less if Liriano is in the All-Star game or not, in fact, it is probably better for the Twins that he isn't. However, MLB has to decide if the All-Star game is really a game or is it an exhibition. Due to the fact that the outcome now decides home field advantage for the World Series, that tells me it is no longer an exhibition. If that's true, why in god's name do fans still get to choose the participants? Ozzie Guillen, who is crazy, isn't so crazy that he would rather have AJ on the bench than Liriano in the bullpen.
The day the fans were given the power to vote, was also the same day the game became a joke (exhibition). The problem now is, the game isn't supposed to be a joke anymore. Bud, let the players and managers decide who plays, if you don't want to do that, then make it an exhibition again.
P.S. Bud Selig, I'm a fan. I will still watch if you take away my power to vote. I know you've always said the game is for me, but, I'm here to tell you that to make it mine, I don't have to choose the participants.
The day the fans were given the power to vote, was also the same day the game became a joke (exhibition). The problem now is, the game isn't supposed to be a joke anymore. Bud, let the players and managers decide who plays, if you don't want to do that, then make it an exhibition again.
P.S. Bud Selig, I'm a fan. I will still watch if you take away my power to vote. I know you've always said the game is for me, but, I'm here to tell you that to make it mine, I don't have to choose the participants.