I agree IS. I would add that you cant really ever play the game to win..so why make it mean something.
The selection process is goofy. It was way better in the 'old days' when the managers and players voted. But even then there was always a strong sentiment to get everybody in the game. So, often times the game would be decided late by 'second stringers'.
Here is the packerboy All Star game suggestions:
1. The managers and players select the starters.
2. The All Star manager selects the pitchers including the starter.
3. The fans get to select a number of players (say 5) like they just did with AJ and then the manager gets to fill in the rest.
4. Finally, and maybe most importantly, play high school substitution rules. This would allow everyone to get in the game but still have the real ALL Stars in the game at the end.
If we did that, then I could see putting something on the outcome.
Twins 34-34 on 6/18
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
All-Star game
Good ideas packerboy, I especially like the last one. The game really should still be an exhibition, my feeling is that home field advantage in the World Series should go to the team with the best record. Sure, strong teams in weak divisions would have an advantage but it would mean that a team would be rewarded for its performance on the field during the regular season.
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Blue Breeze
- Posts: 931
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:31 pm
All-Star Game
A lot of good points. I like the high school re-entry rule along with getting the game back to an exhibition and reward home field to the team with the best record.
Fan voting is a joke. Paul Loduca? There are at least half a dozen more deserving catchers in the NL. Thank God Varitek lost out on the vote in the AL or we could have the same gripe there. Fans are so focused on their teams, and considering the population density and focus around baseball in the northeast, they dominate the voting. It should be taken out of the fans hands. I think it should be strictly player voting. Let the manager decide the starting pitcher and starters, but have the players select 30 guys, they have the best grasp on who is deserving. Managers often get too wrapped up in their own guys. The White Sox have 7 this year, although in defense of Ozzie Guillen they are deserving. But a few years ago the Yankees had 10 I believe, and that was ridiculous. Managers are nearly forced to reward their own players rather than those most deserving.
On the topic of Liriano and his less than stellar competition, you really can't argue that. But it's not his fault and he has dominated in his starts. Tonight he shut down an explosive Rangers lineup without his best stuff. He is an All-Star snub, but he will have his chances down the road.
Fan voting is a joke. Paul Loduca? There are at least half a dozen more deserving catchers in the NL. Thank God Varitek lost out on the vote in the AL or we could have the same gripe there. Fans are so focused on their teams, and considering the population density and focus around baseball in the northeast, they dominate the voting. It should be taken out of the fans hands. I think it should be strictly player voting. Let the manager decide the starting pitcher and starters, but have the players select 30 guys, they have the best grasp on who is deserving. Managers often get too wrapped up in their own guys. The White Sox have 7 this year, although in defense of Ozzie Guillen they are deserving. But a few years ago the Yankees had 10 I believe, and that was ridiculous. Managers are nearly forced to reward their own players rather than those most deserving.
On the topic of Liriano and his less than stellar competition, you really can't argue that. But it's not his fault and he has dominated in his starts. Tonight he shut down an explosive Rangers lineup without his best stuff. He is an All-Star snub, but he will have his chances down the road.
All Stars and Francisco
The home field should alternate.
The 'best record' may come as a result of playing in a soft division plus they are in different leagues so comparing records is meaningless, even if their is some interleague play.
As far as 'discounting' Liriano's record based on the competition, his numbers are foir just a little over a quarter of a season. He didnt start until the midddle of May. So, he posted 9 wins as a starter in a quarter of a season.
Its true he hasnt shut down the Tigers, yet, but he will.
The 'best record' may come as a result of playing in a soft division plus they are in different leagues so comparing records is meaningless, even if their is some interleague play.
As far as 'discounting' Liriano's record based on the competition, his numbers are foir just a little over a quarter of a season. He didnt start until the midddle of May. So, he posted 9 wins as a starter in a quarter of a season.
Its true he hasnt shut down the Tigers, yet, but he will.
I see Liriano made the All-Star team when Contreras backed out. Contreras, Halladay, and Santana all pitched Sunday afternoon and are all scheduled to pitch Friday so I doubt any will see significant pitches during the All-Star game, Rogers should start and go until his spot comes up in the line up, Kazmir will probably get 2 innings as well, dollars to doughnuts Halladay doesn't see the field if he doesn't start leaving possibly 2 innings for Liriano.
The Twins futility on the road continus dropping 4 of 6 against less than stellar competition. A caller on the Twins pregame show asked about getting a good first baseman and letting Morneau DH, Terry Ryan said though he wasn't pleased with the progress of Justins defense he didn't believe in having a specific guy do the DHing. (Note to Terry Ryan: this is the AL we use the DH here, the top 3 guys in RBI are all DH's it's OK to have a guy there who can hit instead of Lew Ford) In the 6th inning Santana got Teixeira to pop a foul near the Ranger dugout, Santana and Redman gave vigorous chase while Justin watched the ball hit the railing no more than 15 yards from 1B, 2 pitches later Teixeira hit a 2 run homer prompting a I'd put the next throw to first in Justins ear from Jack Morris. The Twins will never win anything with that kind of effort on the road, and that's the kind of effort they have gotten all season.
The Twins futility on the road continus dropping 4 of 6 against less than stellar competition. A caller on the Twins pregame show asked about getting a good first baseman and letting Morneau DH, Terry Ryan said though he wasn't pleased with the progress of Justins defense he didn't believe in having a specific guy do the DHing. (Note to Terry Ryan: this is the AL we use the DH here, the top 3 guys in RBI are all DH's it's OK to have a guy there who can hit instead of Lew Ford) In the 6th inning Santana got Teixeira to pop a foul near the Ranger dugout, Santana and Redman gave vigorous chase while Justin watched the ball hit the railing no more than 15 yards from 1B, 2 pitches later Teixeira hit a 2 run homer prompting a I'd put the next throw to first in Justins ear from Jack Morris. The Twins will never win anything with that kind of effort on the road, and that's the kind of effort they have gotten all season.
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EREmpireStrikesBack
- Posts: 5140
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- Location: Minnesota
Lots of letters
How hard would it be to pry the alphabet kid from the Royals. He'd probably come back here.
DH Morneau and have Mientkiewicz play first. When Mauer is not catching and the DH, have Morneau play first and Doug ( I am not typing his last name again) PH and/or come in late for D.
This is so easy.
DH Morneau and have Mientkiewicz play first. When Mauer is not catching and the DH, have Morneau play first and Doug ( I am not typing his last name again) PH and/or come in late for D.
This is so easy.
Rampant plagarism
I just read Jim Souhan's column who is covering the All Star game for the Strib.
Its unbelievable. He totally copies IS's last post and the comments the rest of us made and does a column on it.
Couldn't he at least acknowledge that the posters of minnhock inspired the column? Geez.
Its unbelievable. He totally copies IS's last post and the comments the rest of us made and does a column on it.
Couldn't he at least acknowledge that the posters of minnhock inspired the column? Geez.
Good point
He could be 
Hey , wait a minute, come to think of it, have you ever seen IS and Souhan together? No way. AND they have never been on the radio at the same time either. Hmmm.
Hey , wait a minute, come to think of it, have you ever seen IS and Souhan together? No way. AND they have never been on the radio at the same time either. Hmmm.
The second half..whats new is old
Intersting that the Twins start the 'second half' with none of the free agent 'help' they signed in the off season.
With the release of Sierra, they now have none of the free agents they suigned on the roster.
I commend Ryan for admitting the mistakes but he sure made some mistakes. You would think he could have learned his lesson from last years 'no brainer' Bret Boone fiasco that ChrisK was so supportive of.
Anyway, lets hope that this will be the end of the cheapo free agent signings. If you are going to do it, do it right. Get a Thome or a Soriano.. or both when they are available.
With the release of Sierra, they now have none of the free agents they suigned on the roster.
I commend Ryan for admitting the mistakes but he sure made some mistakes. You would think he could have learned his lesson from last years 'no brainer' Bret Boone fiasco that ChrisK was so supportive of.
Anyway, lets hope that this will be the end of the cheapo free agent signings. If you are going to do it, do it right. Get a Thome or a Soriano.. or both when they are available.
A rare packerboy slip up
OOPS...I forgot about Castillo....I wonder why that would happen.
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jimjackjohnmmmm
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 12:30 pm
Ryan Boone
It seems like Ryan does better with trades than free agent signings but it wouldn't surprise me if teams are reluctant to deal with the Twins now.
One exception would be the forementioned Boone deal, which actually was a trade with the Mariners for 'future considerations' though it might end up being a trade in name only. I still don't think it was a bad move, what was bad was that it was really the only move Ryan made especially when it became clear that Boone was not working.
The Twins do an excellent job of plucking good young players from other organizations and a lousy job of nabbing old veteran free agents. They need to do a better job of scouting and evaluating veteran talent, I'd hate to see them spend more money and just come up with more expensive Tony Batistas or Rondell Whites.
One exception would be the forementioned Boone deal, which actually was a trade with the Mariners for 'future considerations' though it might end up being a trade in name only. I still don't think it was a bad move, what was bad was that it was really the only move Ryan made especially when it became clear that Boone was not working.
The Twins do an excellent job of plucking good young players from other organizations and a lousy job of nabbing old veteran free agents. They need to do a better job of scouting and evaluating veteran talent, I'd hate to see them spend more money and just come up with more expensive Tony Batistas or Rondell Whites.
Its a mixed bag
Well Chrisk, I see you just cant admit that the Boone 'no brainer' deal was a fiasco that packerboy called right from the beginning.
There have been a few el cheapo free agent/ veteran pickup signings that have worked for our boys over the years.
Dan Galdden, Don Baylor, Pags, Juan Beringier, Kenny Rogers, just to name a few. Most of those were Andy Macphail but Ryan was around then.
If you go the cheapo route its a flip of the coin.
If they would dumped your hero Radke and spent the money on Thome or Soriano, kept The Gambler, we wouldn't be 11 games back.
Now thats a no brainer.
There have been a few el cheapo free agent/ veteran pickup signings that have worked for our boys over the years.
Dan Galdden, Don Baylor, Pags, Juan Beringier, Kenny Rogers, just to name a few. Most of those were Andy Macphail but Ryan was around then.
If you go the cheapo route its a flip of the coin.
If they would dumped your hero Radke and spent the money on Thome or Soriano, kept The Gambler, we wouldn't be 11 games back.
Now thats a no brainer.
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Irishmans Shanty
- Posts: 3988
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:38 pm
Too many teams alive
Don't hold your breath for the Twins to make a deal to improve the team by the end of the month. Due to the blugeoning the AL gave the NL in interleague play this year there are just too many AL teams that still have playoff hopes. Toronto, NY, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, and the entire West still have to believe they are alive. Even our Twins, though many of us have been realistic about the playoffs have enough homer in us to think that just maybe they could win 8 of 10 out of the gates to narrow the gap a little more. With this many teams alive, available difference makers will be at a premium for teams willing and able to mortgage the future to win now.
Final All-Star game thoughts:
Ozzie Guillen can do no wrong, everything he touches turns to gold. Even the All-Star game is not immune to his horseshoe mojo. With the second semester starting tonight it marks the end of All-Star nonesense. The celebrity softball game has to go. I'm no underwear model but who wants to watch guys like Kruk and Matlock try to run. It's sad, those guys weren't playing all that long ago. Dean Cain playing SS, a miked-up Harold Reynolds, who cares. I would like to see MLB institute a skills competition that would be similar in nature to what the NHL incorporates to its all star weekend. Here's an idea, showcase the talents that these guys have. There is more to their skill set than clobbering 61mph pitches into the Alleghany River. Put some targest up around the infield and make these guys hit liners off them, some of those guys could do it all day. Have some outfielders use their arms to throw a ball into a bucket from 250 feet away, kind of like Ray Bourque hitting the plates in the net. How about gunning the speed the ball comes off the bat, just like an Al Iafrate slapper from between the circles. Maybe it sounds stupid, but anything is better than their current softball game.
Final All-Star game thoughts:
Ozzie Guillen can do no wrong, everything he touches turns to gold. Even the All-Star game is not immune to his horseshoe mojo. With the second semester starting tonight it marks the end of All-Star nonesense. The celebrity softball game has to go. I'm no underwear model but who wants to watch guys like Kruk and Matlock try to run. It's sad, those guys weren't playing all that long ago. Dean Cain playing SS, a miked-up Harold Reynolds, who cares. I would like to see MLB institute a skills competition that would be similar in nature to what the NHL incorporates to its all star weekend. Here's an idea, showcase the talents that these guys have. There is more to their skill set than clobbering 61mph pitches into the Alleghany River. Put some targest up around the infield and make these guys hit liners off them, some of those guys could do it all day. Have some outfielders use their arms to throw a ball into a bucket from 250 feet away, kind of like Ray Bourque hitting the plates in the net. How about gunning the speed the ball comes off the bat, just like an Al Iafrate slapper from between the circles. Maybe it sounds stupid, but anything is better than their current softball game.
Boony, trades, et al
Well packerboy, you did make the call that Boone would not work out, but I'd hardly call it a fiasco. He appeared in 14 games and only had 53 at bats, so they pulled the plug on it fairly quick. This year's crop of free agent signings might be closer to a fiasco.
All the free agents you mentioned below, with the exception of Rogers, were from the MacPhail era. How can a team that's so good at finding young diamonds in the rough be so bad at picking older players? Part of the reason , as packerboy has pointed out, is that they don't spend a lot of money even Rogers was picked up on the cheap. And I don't think he was interested in staying with the Twins, though it may have been because they didn't want to pay him. My point would be that not only do they need to loosen the purse strings but they need to make sure they spend the money on players who will produce. You're not saving any money signing guys who don't even make it through the whole season...
All the free agents you mentioned below, with the exception of Rogers, were from the MacPhail era. How can a team that's so good at finding young diamonds in the rough be so bad at picking older players? Part of the reason , as packerboy has pointed out, is that they don't spend a lot of money even Rogers was picked up on the cheap. And I don't think he was interested in staying with the Twins, though it may have been because they didn't want to pay him. My point would be that not only do they need to loosen the purse strings but they need to make sure they spend the money on players who will produce. You're not saving any money signing guys who don't even make it through the whole season...
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Irishmans Shanty
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Boone was not a fiasco, he was a disaster. If the Twins pulled the plug on Boone too early why hasn't any other MLB team picked him up? Boone is done and was done when he arrived in Mpls. Speculation about his possible steroid use aside, he has allegedly been spending a lot of time in Vegas over the last couple years. It is said that many establishments there no longer want his business. Boone may have had some numbers left in his bat but his off the field issues ended his career more than his diminishing physical skills.
The game should be enough
Well IS, I agree but what in heck are you doing watching the softball game anyway? Do some yardwork or something.
I remember when the game was enough. Just not the case anymore. We have to have home run derby(which I watched....after mowing the lawn ) and softball games and skills competition. We have to have the Rolling Stones at halftime of the Super Bowl for cripe sake. Nutso.
I agree Chris but the only way that you can be somewhat sure you will get your moneys worth in the free agent market is to spend big money. Soriano, Thome kind of money. But they wont do that. They would rather keep it a low risk/low reward type situation.
Problem being that you cant win that way. The teams you need to beat arrent doing it that way.
I remember when the game was enough. Just not the case anymore. We have to have home run derby(which I watched....after mowing the lawn
) and softball games and skills competition. We have to have the Rolling Stones at halftime of the Super Bowl for cripe sake. Nutso.I agree Chris but the only way that you can be somewhat sure you will get your moneys worth in the free agent market is to spend big money. Soriano, Thome kind of money. But they wont do that. They would rather keep it a low risk/low reward type situation.
Problem being that you cant win that way. The teams you need to beat arrent doing it that way.
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Irishmans Shanty
- Posts: 3988
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:38 pm
Re: The game should be enough
[quote="packerboy"]Well IS, I agree but what in heck are you doing watching the softball game anyway? Do some yardwork or something.
Valid question, but in my defense it was the selection of another customer who beat me to the TV in the waiting room of the Aladdin Oil Change Express. Had I been controling the remote I would have sooner been viewing Canadian Parliament.
Valid question, but in my defense it was the selection of another customer who beat me to the TV in the waiting room of the Aladdin Oil Change Express. Had I been controling the remote I would have sooner been viewing Canadian Parliament.
Canada
Shanty, don't knock the Canadian Parliament, those Quebec separatists keep things exciting.
I do have to say that this year's All-Star game was one of the best ones I've seen, starting with Brad Penny striking out the side, Vernon Wells' throwing out Soriano at the plate, Beltran manufacturing a run and continuing through the improbable ending.
By the way, I wasn't suggesting the Twins got rid of Boone too soon, far from it, I thought they got rid of him before he did too much damage.
I do have to say that this year's All-Star game was one of the best ones I've seen, starting with Brad Penny striking out the side, Vernon Wells' throwing out Soriano at the plate, Beltran manufacturing a run and continuing through the improbable ending.
By the way, I wasn't suggesting the Twins got rid of Boone too soon, far from it, I thought they got rid of him before he did too much damage.
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Irishmans Shanty
- Posts: 3988
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:38 pm
If I could have Gardy's ear for a moment prior to the start of tonight's series, I would make a motion to him to intentionally walk Travis Hafner every at bat over the next four days. Regardless of the situation, I believe walking him 12-18 times between today and Sunday will yield a far better result than trying to get him out. Hafner, Thome, and Adam Kennedy just can not be allowed to beat up this organization anymore. Liriano's left arm should be able to handle Hafner's left handed cut, but I just don't want to see him swing anymore. Walk him and move on.
Hafner/Radke/Liriano
First off, am I the only one who thinks if you painted Hafner green and shaved his head, he'd look a lot like Shrek?
Good call Shanty, even Liriano couldn't keep him from going deep. We've got Radke tonight, I think it might be best to avert your eyes when he faces Hafner otherwise they might have to give tonight's game an R rating for violence. I was just checking out the preview for tonight's game and caught this: "[Radke] skipped the team's trip to Texas last weekend to get a shot in his throwing shoulder in order to get ready for the second half." I have seen suggestions that Radke might be hurting more than either he or the team is letting on. If true, on the one hand you kind of have to admire his grit in pitching through the pain, but on the other, if he is hurt shouldn't he be on the DL, I mean he hasn't done a lot for the team on the field.
And Liriano is getting press, check out this column:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=j ... &type=lgns
This guy has him second in the Cy Young and Rookie of the Year at the midseason mark.
Good call Shanty, even Liriano couldn't keep him from going deep. We've got Radke tonight, I think it might be best to avert your eyes when he faces Hafner otherwise they might have to give tonight's game an R rating for violence. I was just checking out the preview for tonight's game and caught this: "[Radke] skipped the team's trip to Texas last weekend to get a shot in his throwing shoulder in order to get ready for the second half." I have seen suggestions that Radke might be hurting more than either he or the team is letting on. If true, on the one hand you kind of have to admire his grit in pitching through the pain, but on the other, if he is hurt shouldn't he be on the DL, I mean he hasn't done a lot for the team on the field.
And Liriano is getting press, check out this column:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=j ... &type=lgns
This guy has him second in the Cy Young and Rookie of the Year at the midseason mark.
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Irishmans Shanty
- Posts: 3988
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:38 pm
Didn't matter
My decree to walk Hafner every at bat in the series would not have helped in game #1. Hafner had a big night with a double and a HR, however, if the Twins had intentionally walked him and the batters behind him did what they did, the score would have been 8-4. Walking Hafner in the first leads to a 3 run shot by Blake instead of a 2 run shot in the 2nd. Walking Hafner in the 3rd leads to a 3 run shot by Peraltta instead of a solo shot in the 4th. Walking Hafner in the 5th eliminates that run but it is still a net loss of 2 runs via the walk system.
Conclusion: Twins pitchers have to keep the ball in the stadium against this team. Cleveland has abused the Twins with the HR for what is beginning to feel like an eternity. Maybe Cleveland does this to everyone but the story for me is getting old. Mel Hall started this disaster, then came Joe Carter, Cory Snyder, Juan Gonzalez, Richie Sexson, Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Ben Broussard, Casey Blake, and Travis Hafner to name a few. It still seems like only yesterday that Viola surrendered a 10-0 lead in Cleveland, I think Mel Hall had the final dagger in the game that night.
Who was the Twins' 1B slugging prospect that went on to Cleveland and became a part of those mid 90's Cleveland teams?
Conclusion: Twins pitchers have to keep the ball in the stadium against this team. Cleveland has abused the Twins with the HR for what is beginning to feel like an eternity. Maybe Cleveland does this to everyone but the story for me is getting old. Mel Hall started this disaster, then came Joe Carter, Cory Snyder, Juan Gonzalez, Richie Sexson, Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Ben Broussard, Casey Blake, and Travis Hafner to name a few. It still seems like only yesterday that Viola surrendered a 10-0 lead in Cleveland, I think Mel Hall had the final dagger in the game that night.
Who was the Twins' 1B slugging prospect that went on to Cleveland and became a part of those mid 90's Cleveland teams?
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nickel slots
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