Here's a quote from today's Patrick Reusse column:
"Brad Radke should be on the disabled list. He's trying to pitch because the Twins need him.
There's one official hole in the rotation with Baker gone, and another possible because of Radke's painful right shoulder, but the real uneasiness around these parts has to be with Liriano's sore forearm.
This kid was on the disabled list five times in his first two seasons of pro ball. That slinging motion and the way he torques his left elbow to throw the slider had some scouts wondering when he might start feeling the effects.
Until we know more, there's one comparison to terrify Twins followers: Scott Erickson in 1991.
He was 12-2 with a 1.39 ERA in 15 starts and 1161/3 innings to open his first full season. He was twisting his elbow with vigor to make his slider break and his fastball sink. And in a poor outing on June 29, his right elbow started to hurt.
He made 17 starts from late June until the end of the regular season and was 8-6 with a 5.54 ERA in 872/3 innings.
Look at Erickson's numbers -- pre- and post-sore elbow -- and consider this:
Liriano has made 14 starts since moving into the rotation in mid-May. He's 11-2 with a 1.65 ERA in 922/3 innings, and now he's missed a start because of soreness near his elbow.
Hardcore Twins fans might find themselves having as much trouble digesting solids as the manager, until Liriano makes his next start and says his left arm feels fabuloso."
Check out my post on July 6th, Reusse reads us too!
Twins 34-34 on 6/18
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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EREmpireStrikesBack
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Packerboy=Reusse??
It must be packerboy, who woulda thought!
Patrickboy
All right ChrisK, just because our physiques are similar is not a good reason to 'out' me as Reusse.
They need to sweep KC. Just like that they are 3 back again.
Its one thing to level off after a hot streak and then start another one....its quite another to go in the tank.
Lets go Twins.
They need to sweep KC. Just like that they are 3 back again.
Its one thing to level off after a hot streak and then start another one....its quite another to go in the tank.
Lets go Twins.
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EREmpireStrikesBack
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jimjackjohnmmmm
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jimjackjohnmmmm
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Irishmans Shanty
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There is a saying in show business that goes "always leave them wanting more". I guess that's what our club believes in. On July 21st the Twins left the safety of their dome for a stretch of games where they would play 13 of 19 on the road. Of the 19, there was a trip to cle, chi, and det and a home trifecta with a good hitting Ranger team. You would think that 10-9 during that stretch would be acceptable considering the Twins' road woes. Not so, through 15 of those, the Twins have already won 10. The problem is, we need more.
Sweep
So after all my doomsaying Radke goes out and pitches 8 solid innings and Silva has a good start. However, Santana still seems a bit shaky and the new call-up, Mike Smith, was all over the place yesterday, only lasting 3 innings. It sounds like they will be calling up Garza after all. And I'll be crossing my fingers tonight hoping Liriano's elbow holds up.
Still, the Twins get a big four game sweep in KC and you really couldn't ask for more. The Royals aren't much of a team so a playoff level team should take it to them and that's exactly what the Twins did. Now let's see the Twins take it to the Tigers!
Still, the Twins get a big four game sweep in KC and you really couldn't ask for more. The Royals aren't much of a team so a playoff level team should take it to them and that's exactly what the Twins did. Now let's see the Twins take it to the Tigers!
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Blue Breeze
- Posts: 931
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Even if Garza isn't deemed 'ready' by the so called Twins braintrust, he has to be a better option than any of the pitchers we are trotting out there right now. He could be viewed like a trade deadline acquisition and give this team a boost with his live arm and hopefully a few quality starts. His call-up is inevitable, why not have it be now.
Garza
I agree completely, BB. Bonser, Baker and Smith haven't looked 'ready' either. Pitchers usually take awhile to adjust to major league hitters, Liriano being a notable exception, but if Garza can give the Twins some good starts to go with the expected shaky ones it would be better than what they've been getting from the no.5 spot. From what they're saying in the paper it looks like they'll be calling up Garza this week, so the Twins' brain trust must be reaching the same conclusion.
Its April in August
Every time they play the Tigers it looks like April and May again.
The Tigers are very good but come on.
Lets go Twins.
The Tigers are very good but come on.
Lets go Twins.
Tiggers
Yeah, it just seems that the Tigers have the Twins number this year.
So Liriano only makes it four innings before his elbow hurts too much to continue, this is not good. Radke goes tonight against Nate Robertson who had a rather rocky start last time against the Twins, let's hope Radke's shoulder holds up. The Garza watch continues, Ryan and Gardy are supposed to meet today to discuss calling him up and from what they're saying it sounds as if he'll be up soon. The good news is that the White Sox are also having trouble with their starters, Buehrle lost again last night and Contreras hasn't won in awhile either.
The Twins have not won in Detroit this year. That needs to end, go Twins!
So Liriano only makes it four innings before his elbow hurts too much to continue, this is not good. Radke goes tonight against Nate Robertson who had a rather rocky start last time against the Twins, let's hope Radke's shoulder holds up. The Garza watch continues, Ryan and Gardy are supposed to meet today to discuss calling him up and from what they're saying it sounds as if he'll be up soon. The good news is that the White Sox are also having trouble with their starters, Buehrle lost again last night and Contreras hasn't won in awhile either.
The Twins have not won in Detroit this year. That needs to end, go Twins!
Arm not elbow fo Cisco kid
Well, at least its not his elbow. Forearm trouble heals with rest and anti inflamatory meds. If he can get healthy, theyll stay in it.
Garza? If they thought he could help them win, wouldnt he be here?
The last blurb I read about him was they didnt think he was ready because he had no command of his breaking pitches. Not a good thing at this level.
All of you Radke fans have been sayin all year how he is such a cagey veteran who does well in the big games.
Lets see it tonight.
Garza? If they thought he could help them win, wouldnt he be here?
The last blurb I read about him was they didnt think he was ready because he had no command of his breaking pitches. Not a good thing at this level.
All of you Radke fans have been sayin all year how he is such a cagey veteran who does well in the big games.
Lets see it tonight.
Garza watch is over
Well, that was short, the Garza watch is officially over, the Twins have called him up and demoted Mike Smith. My feeling was that Gardenhire wanted him up ASAP and Ryan was holding back, apparently keeping the Twins' tradition of not moving too fast (or holding back, whichever way you want to look at it) prized prospects.
I did read some comments in the Strib from Kelly and Ryan where they said he had thrown too many fastballs in his first Triple-A start and from Thursday's Strib:
"Righthander Matt Garza, who has made four starts at Class AAA Rochester, was passed over in favor of Mike Smith because Garza still needs fine-tuning, namely in throwing all of his pitches. Twins General Manager Terry Ryan said so earlier in the week, and former Twins manager Tom Kelly, who recently scouted Garza, has expressed the same opinion. Garza is 2-1 with a 2.33 ERA at Rochester."
I don't get the impression that this is a guy who has no command of his breaking stuff, they just want him to mix it up more. He turned in a big performance on Saturday and in today's Strib Ryan was quoted:
"But in an interview with the Rochester Democrat & Chronicle, Ryan acknowledged that Garza will probably pitch in the big leagues this year.
"I don't think there's any doubt," Ryan said. "I saw him in Double-A; I saw his debut. I was concerned maybe we pushed him hard. He proceeded to strike out 13 in front of my eyes, and throw a no-hitter for five or six [innings].""
After seeing Bonser and Baker flame out, it'll be a nice surprise if Garza can hold his own but the Twins are really going to need him to. I think Liriano's injury is serious and I'll be surprised to see him back before the end of the season. If he does come back this year, he won't be the same pitcher we saw earlier in the season.
I did read some comments in the Strib from Kelly and Ryan where they said he had thrown too many fastballs in his first Triple-A start and from Thursday's Strib:
"Righthander Matt Garza, who has made four starts at Class AAA Rochester, was passed over in favor of Mike Smith because Garza still needs fine-tuning, namely in throwing all of his pitches. Twins General Manager Terry Ryan said so earlier in the week, and former Twins manager Tom Kelly, who recently scouted Garza, has expressed the same opinion. Garza is 2-1 with a 2.33 ERA at Rochester."
I don't get the impression that this is a guy who has no command of his breaking stuff, they just want him to mix it up more. He turned in a big performance on Saturday and in today's Strib Ryan was quoted:
"But in an interview with the Rochester Democrat & Chronicle, Ryan acknowledged that Garza will probably pitch in the big leagues this year.
"I don't think there's any doubt," Ryan said. "I saw him in Double-A; I saw his debut. I was concerned maybe we pushed him hard. He proceeded to strike out 13 in front of my eyes, and throw a no-hitter for five or six [innings].""
After seeing Bonser and Baker flame out, it'll be a nice surprise if Garza can hold his own but the Twins are really going to need him to. I think Liriano's injury is serious and I'll be surprised to see him back before the end of the season. If he does come back this year, he won't be the same pitcher we saw earlier in the season.
Garza era beguns
Well, lets hope the move pays off.
As I have said before, even if he gets knocked around a bit, it will be good experience and as ChrisK ponts out, he cant be any worse than Baker, Smith and the Boof.
I dont think Liriano can be seriously hurt if it is the muscles in his fore arm. If it isnt a joint, its usually not that bad but we will see.
As I have said before, even if he gets knocked around a bit, it will be good experience and as ChrisK ponts out, he cant be any worse than Baker, Smith and the Boof.
I dont think Liriano can be seriously hurt if it is the muscles in his fore arm. If it isnt a joint, its usually not that bad but we will see.
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Irishmans Shanty
- Posts: 3988
- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:38 pm
Well, it has happened. The golden arm has broken down. For those of you who trumpet (I am not one) the pitch count and the protection of young arms, this may be your chance to pile on and say "I told you so".
Is Liriano broken down because a struggling team early in the year demanded his talent or has he blown a tire because he is an injury waiting to happen? I believe the Twins' front office is now second guessing their move of mid-May. One only needs to compare the Twins' handling of Liriano with that of a young Johann Santana. Seems to me that the talented Santana had his pitches/innings held to a minimum while toiling around in the Twins pen for a couple of seasons. In '02 Santana was ready to start but was not promoted, then again in '03 he started the year in the pen. What I am left to wonder now is did the Twins change their organization wide policy of protecting young arms or did they succomb to pressure from posters such as myself who begged for Liriano's promotion?
Seems as though the Twins might be going down the same road with a certain prospect by the name of Garza.
In Conclusion:
Terry Ryan you screwed up. At the deadline you needed to build depth and you didn't. At the deadline the Twins were hotter than crap and people said "they don't need help, they're winning every night with what they have". I know they didn't need help then but there were 60 games left on the schedule. The injury bug will hit, especially when you have hard working players involved in nightly contests that mean the world to their playoff aspirations. When Punto breaks a wrist diving into first on an infield chopper does Tiffee start the rest of the year and do they continue to contend?
As the guy at mission control said in Apollo 13, "I believe this will be our greatest moment."
Go Twins, even the Royals got one in Detroit this year.
Is Liriano broken down because a struggling team early in the year demanded his talent or has he blown a tire because he is an injury waiting to happen? I believe the Twins' front office is now second guessing their move of mid-May. One only needs to compare the Twins' handling of Liriano with that of a young Johann Santana. Seems to me that the talented Santana had his pitches/innings held to a minimum while toiling around in the Twins pen for a couple of seasons. In '02 Santana was ready to start but was not promoted, then again in '03 he started the year in the pen. What I am left to wonder now is did the Twins change their organization wide policy of protecting young arms or did they succomb to pressure from posters such as myself who begged for Liriano's promotion?
Seems as though the Twins might be going down the same road with a certain prospect by the name of Garza.
In Conclusion:
Terry Ryan you screwed up. At the deadline you needed to build depth and you didn't. At the deadline the Twins were hotter than crap and people said "they don't need help, they're winning every night with what they have". I know they didn't need help then but there were 60 games left on the schedule. The injury bug will hit, especially when you have hard working players involved in nightly contests that mean the world to their playoff aspirations. When Punto breaks a wrist diving into first on an infield chopper does Tiffee start the rest of the year and do they continue to contend?
As the guy at mission control said in Apollo 13, "I believe this will be our greatest moment."
Go Twins, even the Royals got one in Detroit this year.
Nice one!
With elbows breaking down in front of him and rookies flaming out behind him, Radke comes through with a performance that even packerboy might have to call gutsy. It's only one win, but the Twins needed to get a game in Detroit and who would've thought three months ago that it'd be Radke that would be the first Twins pitcher to win a game at Comerica this year.
packerboy you're right in that a muscle injury wouldn't be an major issue, but the problem is they don't know what Liriano has injured. According to the Yahoo game report Gardenhire said there's a 99.999 percent chance Liriano is going on the DL after his MRI on Thursday which is supposed to determine if it's the forearm, elbow or both.
Shanty, I think the Twins were taken with Liriano's arm, which was like having a Corvette in the driveway that you could only drive to the corner strip mall and were desperate to right a pitching staff that was imploding. And they could end up doing the same thing to Garza if they're not careful. The majors are littered with pitchers with outstanding promise that can't stay off the DL. Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Ben Sheets, the list goes on. I don't know either if the pitch count is the answer but it does seem like arms are taken care of better than they used to be and they still end up on the DL.
And I was saying it before the trade deadline and I'll say it again, Ryan should have tried to get another arm for this staff. The options weren't good but it sounds like Ryan was just going after hitters.
Radke's stepped up, now Johan needs to take the ball and take the series from the Tigers. He has not pitched well of late. Go Johan, Go Twins!
packerboy you're right in that a muscle injury wouldn't be an major issue, but the problem is they don't know what Liriano has injured. According to the Yahoo game report Gardenhire said there's a 99.999 percent chance Liriano is going on the DL after his MRI on Thursday which is supposed to determine if it's the forearm, elbow or both.
Shanty, I think the Twins were taken with Liriano's arm, which was like having a Corvette in the driveway that you could only drive to the corner strip mall and were desperate to right a pitching staff that was imploding. And they could end up doing the same thing to Garza if they're not careful. The majors are littered with pitchers with outstanding promise that can't stay off the DL. Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Ben Sheets, the list goes on. I don't know either if the pitch count is the answer but it does seem like arms are taken care of better than they used to be and they still end up on the DL.
And I was saying it before the trade deadline and I'll say it again, Ryan should have tried to get another arm for this staff. The options weren't good but it sounds like Ryan was just going after hitters.
Radke's stepped up, now Johan needs to take the ball and take the series from the Tigers. He has not pitched well of late. Go Johan, Go Twins!
Injuries happen
Liriano has pitched 119 innings in 27 games.
He probably would have pitched more than that if he was in the minors.
Injuries happen. He may have to change his motion a bit if that amount of work causes injury. Maybe he isnt a starter.
What ever it is , it isnt because he was rushed along.
Maybe they babied him too much.
Is Radke having shoulder problems because he was rushed along.
Radke was great last night just like I knew he would be. As I have said all along, the guy will come around. I know ChrisK and others doubted it, but I knew Radke would be fine and I have always been a big fan.
That 9 million they are paying him should be doubled.
Go Twins.
He probably would have pitched more than that if he was in the minors.
Injuries happen. He may have to change his motion a bit if that amount of work causes injury. Maybe he isnt a starter.
What ever it is , it isnt because he was rushed along.
Maybe they babied him too much.
Is Radke having shoulder problems because he was rushed along.
Radke was great last night just like I knew he would be. As I have said all along, the guy will come around. I know ChrisK and others doubted it, but I knew Radke would be fine and I have always been a big fan.
That 9 million they are paying him should be doubled.
Go Twins.
Schedule
You hate to put too much emphasis on this but the schedule really is good for the Twins the last week of the season.
They finish the season with 4 vs KC and 3 vs CWS.....all at home.
They need to stay close. If they do, we could be still posting in OCT.
They finish the season with 4 vs KC and 3 vs CWS.....all at home.
They need to stay close. If they do, we could be still posting in OCT.
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jimjackjohnmmmm
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Hey, as downtrodden as we are about the whole pitching/slash Liriano situation, we did just take 2 of 3 from Detroit ON THE ROAD. Yes Liriano is gone for a few weeks, at least, but who knows, every player in the field has stepped up at different times it seems every game. We have to stay realistic, making the playoffs will be VERY hard, but the least we could do is give them good vibes and support. These kids are playing their hearts out and winning for us. I love this team.
GO TWINS.
GO TWINS.
Twins
Right you are jimjack. This is a good group of players.
But we cant help getting sweaty palms over the Liriano situation. He is very important to their chances. With him healthy, they are as good as the other teams in the WC race, maybe better. Without him, they are an underdog.
Not to bring any negativity into the discussion but wasnt it fun watching Torii Hunter hit against Tiger pitching. How can he be in the league that long and still swing at that crap. He is so easy to get out. He gets himself out.
Way to go Justin Morneau.BTW, was that on the first pitch?
But we cant help getting sweaty palms over the Liriano situation. He is very important to their chances. With him healthy, they are as good as the other teams in the WC race, maybe better. Without him, they are an underdog.
Not to bring any negativity into the discussion but wasnt it fun watching Torii Hunter hit against Tiger pitching. How can he be in the league that long and still swing at that crap. He is so easy to get out. He gets himself out.
Way to go Justin Morneau.BTW, was that on the first pitch?
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Irishmans Shanty
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- Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:38 pm
My most memorable Twins Home Runs.
1. Puckett in the World Series vs. Braves
2. Baylor in the World Series vs. Cardinals
3. Pierzynski in the Divisional Playoffs vs. A's
4. Morneau's last night.
Regardless of how this season ends, Morneau's blast last night forever will be a part of my memory. First of all, it showed the Twins' ability to come from behind on the road against a team that has simply found a way to win every tight game. Secondly, Morneau picked up a cleanup hitter who didn't get the bat off of his shoulders in a key 8th inning AB. And finally, just as the Tiger color commentator was half way through a statement beginning with "You just don't want to make a mist....." the ball was half way out of the park. The timing of that hit and the announcer's statement couldn't have been better for a Twins fan.
As the season moves into the second half of August, MVP talk is picking up. If the season ends the way the standings are today, how big would Morneau's numbers need to be in order to challenge Big Poppy? Right now Morneau is .322, 30, 101. That's pretty darn good already. I always have felt that a non East/West Coast player needs to go above and beyond the competition to get an award.
1. Puckett in the World Series vs. Braves
2. Baylor in the World Series vs. Cardinals
3. Pierzynski in the Divisional Playoffs vs. A's
4. Morneau's last night.
Regardless of how this season ends, Morneau's blast last night forever will be a part of my memory. First of all, it showed the Twins' ability to come from behind on the road against a team that has simply found a way to win every tight game. Secondly, Morneau picked up a cleanup hitter who didn't get the bat off of his shoulders in a key 8th inning AB. And finally, just as the Tiger color commentator was half way through a statement beginning with "You just don't want to make a mist....." the ball was half way out of the park. The timing of that hit and the announcer's statement couldn't have been better for a Twins fan.
As the season moves into the second half of August, MVP talk is picking up. If the season ends the way the standings are today, how big would Morneau's numbers need to be in order to challenge Big Poppy? Right now Morneau is .322, 30, 101. That's pretty darn good already. I always have felt that a non East/West Coast player needs to go above and beyond the competition to get an award.
The Tigers could really help out the Twins in their next two series with the Sox and the other sox by cleaning up on them. The way the Tigers year has been going they should be able to take at least 75% of those games. Boston has NOT looked very good as of late and Chicago isn't playing all that well either.
GO TIGERS!
WIN TWINS!
GO TIGERS!
WIN TWINS!