Cutting returning "A" players
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
Cutting returning "A" players
Does anyone have an opinion on cutting a returning "A" player? How devistating is that to a kid and should that be a consideration? Do "returners" get special treatment or consideration?
Why are you talking about cutting this kid now before tryouts?
All kids need to prove themselves at tryouts.
Unless your program hasn't been doing a good job of developing the
players, it will be difficult to justify why a kid was good enough to make
the A team as a first year at that level last year and now as a 2nd year player at that level isn't even better than he was last year.
If he is moving to a new level (squirt to peewee for example) there are
few kids who can move from squirt A to peewee A so no justification
is needed.
If it's a numbers problem, the kid was not put at the correct level last
year and should have been explained as such then, so you don't face
the problem now.
All kids need to prove themselves at tryouts.
Unless your program hasn't been doing a good job of developing the
players, it will be difficult to justify why a kid was good enough to make
the A team as a first year at that level last year and now as a 2nd year player at that level isn't even better than he was last year.
If he is moving to a new level (squirt to peewee for example) there are
few kids who can move from squirt A to peewee A so no justification
is needed.
If it's a numbers problem, the kid was not put at the correct level last
year and should have been explained as such then, so you don't face
the problem now.
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gopherhockey33
- Posts: 1029
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:30 pm
Kids grow, develope and mature at different rates. What I tend to see happen is the squirt superstar that didn't have to work too hard because of his size and raw talent, tends to find themselves passed up by HS age by the kids they used to dominate. Some of those kids that were weaker at squirts put forth alot more time and effort on improving than the superstar does.
Peewee and Bantam aged kids can get substantially bigger, stronger, faster and more skilled over one summer. I've seen that happen also. A kid who was a decent first year bantam goes through tryouts the second year and everybody in the arena is amazed at how much the kid has improved.
I've also been around when a first year player with questionable size and skill is placed on the Bantam A team due to numbers. That players developement is hindered from the pace of play and doesn't improve much. Second year Bantams roll around and the kid hasn't grown or matured like most of the other kids. He makes the A team again because he was on it last year and quits before the season ends because he can't keep up. He should have been moved down to the B level before rosterd were set in stone, but the parents were too proud.
If a player plays A his first year, they should not be "grandfathered" onto the A team the second year. To much developement can happen over the seven months after the youth season ends.
It would stink for that kid to play A the first year and B the second, but one of three things will happen:
1) They player will begin working harder, train off ice more and become more focused on improving.
2) Decide that the extra work isn't worth it and keep falling behind or decide to play recreational instead of competatitve hockey.
3) Becaome frustrated and end up quiting all together.
Peewee and Bantam aged kids can get substantially bigger, stronger, faster and more skilled over one summer. I've seen that happen also. A kid who was a decent first year bantam goes through tryouts the second year and everybody in the arena is amazed at how much the kid has improved.
I've also been around when a first year player with questionable size and skill is placed on the Bantam A team due to numbers. That players developement is hindered from the pace of play and doesn't improve much. Second year Bantams roll around and the kid hasn't grown or matured like most of the other kids. He makes the A team again because he was on it last year and quits before the season ends because he can't keep up. He should have been moved down to the B level before rosterd were set in stone, but the parents were too proud.
If a player plays A his first year, they should not be "grandfathered" onto the A team the second year. To much developement can happen over the seven months after the youth season ends.
It would stink for that kid to play A the first year and B the second, but one of three things will happen:
1) They player will begin working harder, train off ice more and become more focused on improving.
2) Decide that the extra work isn't worth it and keep falling behind or decide to play recreational instead of competatitve hockey.
3) Becaome frustrated and end up quiting all together.
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shoot to thrill
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 9:13 am
a teams
Nobody is guaranteed a spot and they shouldn't be. I agree that there can be huge changes during the summer. Some guys just don't want to work hard and others pass them by. Especially as you hit the big growth years at pws and btms. Those are the years that players start to lose interest or dig in harder to get better. It's also a time when some kids try to be okay at a lot of sports and others decide to work harder on 1 or 2. Let the best players make the team whether they are 1st year or 2nd year and whether they were on the A team the year before or not.
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wannagototherink
- Posts: 312
- Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:20 am
You need him
First off I agree with one of the first quotes, this shouldn't be talked about before tryouts, and I'll go a step further, this shouldn't be talked about on a public message board at all...How many kids that read this might have an idea of who you are? If they do find out, then you certainly run the risk of this becoming a problem before you even get rolling. I don't blame you for seeking advice, that is the sign of a good coach, I just think you need to reconsider your forum.
...With that being said, I don't think you ever cut a returning kid with the exception of an individual who had behaviorial problems the year before, and if the problem was addressed at the time, than that individual needs to be responsible for their own action. Otherwise, that kid can absolutely be an asset to your team. First, he has been through your system, he knows what you expect, he's familiar with your drills, and finally, he has knowledge of your schedule and the competition you play against. All these factor help in making the transition for your "new" players to the A level easier...ergo, freeing up more time for you to focus on the team as well as the always important team chemistry. That would be my coaching reason for keeping a kid. Personally speaking, I have a hard time spending a winter with a kid watching him compete and give his best and then turn around the next year and telling him, he's not good enough! But thats just me. Keep in mind it's tough to make that transition from squirts to peewee's and peewee's to bantam's. If this is a peewee to bantam jump, in my opinion that is the toughest jump these kids will make. Give the kid a chance, I bet he surprises you.
...With that being said, I don't think you ever cut a returning kid with the exception of an individual who had behaviorial problems the year before, and if the problem was addressed at the time, than that individual needs to be responsible for their own action. Otherwise, that kid can absolutely be an asset to your team. First, he has been through your system, he knows what you expect, he's familiar with your drills, and finally, he has knowledge of your schedule and the competition you play against. All these factor help in making the transition for your "new" players to the A level easier...ergo, freeing up more time for you to focus on the team as well as the always important team chemistry. That would be my coaching reason for keeping a kid. Personally speaking, I have a hard time spending a winter with a kid watching him compete and give his best and then turn around the next year and telling him, he's not good enough! But thats just me. Keep in mind it's tough to make that transition from squirts to peewee's and peewee's to bantam's. If this is a peewee to bantam jump, in my opinion that is the toughest jump these kids will make. Give the kid a chance, I bet he surprises you.
"I've never seen a dumb-bell score a goal!" ~Gretter
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Hobey Faker
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 2:13 pm
wannagototherink,I don't think you ever cut a returning kid with the exception of an individual who had behaviorial problems the year before, and if the problem was addressed at the time, than that individual needs to be responsible for their own action.
- with this mentality, what would drive these players to improve there game. and how fair would that be to the kid's who bust there tails all summer and pass up this player and are held back because he is garenteed a spot. that is complete bull! you earn your spot like everyone else. This is called tryouts!
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Charliedog
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:55 pm
I agree with Mr. Faker, Don't call them tryouts if they are really not tryouts. If 2nd years are guaranteed spots, then the association should change its' policy to refect that.
I have been around alot of rinks this summer and from our association I have seen the same handful of A's and handful of B's busting their butts to improve. If I were a coach I would take a serious look at these kids. It would be great if the kids could learn a life long lesson such as, hard work brings success.
As for cutting 2nd years, I don't think it happens often and it would be devastating to not make the team, but is it any less devastating to the kid who gets cut because someone else already "owns" a spot?
P.S. remember that Michael Jordan was cut from his 2nd season as a high school basketball team and that seemed to have lit a fire under him!
I have been around alot of rinks this summer and from our association I have seen the same handful of A's and handful of B's busting their butts to improve. If I were a coach I would take a serious look at these kids. It would be great if the kids could learn a life long lesson such as, hard work brings success.
As for cutting 2nd years, I don't think it happens often and it would be devastating to not make the team, but is it any less devastating to the kid who gets cut because someone else already "owns" a spot?
P.S. remember that Michael Jordan was cut from his 2nd season as a high school basketball team and that seemed to have lit a fire under him!