Just curious as to how different associations run their tryouts. What format works best for each age level? For instance, should Bantams do drills as well as scrimmage? Should they scrimmage 4-on-4, 5-on-5 or both? When should you begin to try out at a given position (F/D)? PeeWees?
Add your comments as to both what your association does and what you think works best.
Tryout procedures
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nickel slots
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Our local association conducts 3 days of tryouts. The first day is skills only, and the other 2 are 5 on 5 scrimmages. The scores are weighted towards scrimmage. It wouldn't be a bad idea to try 4 on 4 or even cross-ice 3 on 3 (on each end)... depending on your numbers and how you're evaluating.
Our kids are asked when they are pee wees and bantams to pick a position, but I would have a hard time believing they wouldn't take the top 15 and make it work. They don't do drills geared towards forwards or defensemen.
Our kids are asked when they are pee wees and bantams to pick a position, but I would have a hard time believing they wouldn't take the top 15 and make it work. They don't do drills geared towards forwards or defensemen.
Don't sweat the small stuff.
It's all small stuff.
It's all small stuff.
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shoot to thrill
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re: tryouts
1 or 2 skating drills just to show scorers the better skaters is fine but anything more is a waste of time. 4 on 4 is useless unless you want to know who's a puck hog. The best thing is 5 on 5 and if possible outside scrimmages. Let them play hockey and you'll be able to figure out who the hockey players are.
Re: re: tryouts
Great comment about the 4 on 4 play. We run some drills, then scrimmage. One thing that I'd like to see done, and maybe we will do it this year, is to have 3 on 3 in one zone cross rink. I think you will get a good picture for who the diggers, playmakers and good defenders are as well as the cherry picker/suck hole players.shoot to thrill wrote:1 or 2 skating drills just to show scorers the better skaters is fine but anything more is a waste of time. 4 on 4 is useless unless you want to know who's a puck hog. The best thing is 5 on 5 and if possible outside scrimmages. Let them play hockey and you'll be able to figure out who the hockey players are.
Our association has the philosophy that 4-on-4 is the best format to identify the 15 most "skilled" players and therefore this is the only scrimmage format we use. One problem I've seen with this is that some players tend to disappear when the ice gets smaller (and yes the puckhogs get rewarded). Smart teams simply play physical with us.
Seems to me there would be some benefit to mixing 4 on 4 and 5 on 5 up. At least until they change the rules of the game to 4 on 4 (which with the new crackdown on infractions I'm guessing we will see a lot of anyways).
Seems to me there would be some benefit to mixing 4 on 4 and 5 on 5 up. At least until they change the rules of the game to 4 on 4 (which with the new crackdown on infractions I'm guessing we will see a lot of anyways).
Tryouts
I like to see some 3 on 3 on each end for a snapshot of smaller area play. I also think some 4 on 4 is good which will expose the more skilled players and will also show those that are hiding. More time should be spent 5 on 5 and if at all possible, bring in an outside team for your final 18 to 22 players after trimming down the pools.
Seeing them against another team after just playing against their buddies for a couple days, will help show the evaluators and coaches who really wants it. Also, when bringing in an outside team, spend some time with each team playing shorthanded and on powerplay. With the new rule changes here, special teams play will be critical until the players grow into the new rules.
Basically, you want to see who can play the game or not. Sometimes the player that can skate like the wind during some drills can be totaly lost during scrimmage play from a physical standpoint or just from a knowledge standpoint. Good luck to all during the upcoming tryout season.
Seeing them against another team after just playing against their buddies for a couple days, will help show the evaluators and coaches who really wants it. Also, when bringing in an outside team, spend some time with each team playing shorthanded and on powerplay. With the new rule changes here, special teams play will be critical until the players grow into the new rules.
Basically, you want to see who can play the game or not. Sometimes the player that can skate like the wind during some drills can be totaly lost during scrimmage play from a physical standpoint or just from a knowledge standpoint. Good luck to all during the upcoming tryout season.
A couple of years ago I read an article about an association trying an entirely different approach. I believe it was Buffalo or somewhere in the NW metro area. They were going to have tryouts extend over several games and practices before settling on the final teams. I am curious about how that turned out. Anyone know?
Shuck the puck!!!
We use almost solely a cross rink 3 on 3 format, it's a BS style of tryout. How often is hockey played 3 on 3 anyway? Other bad points are physical play is out cherrypicking is in, we have a horrible time developing any solid defensemen for the high schools because these kids are cut and we end up with 5'4" 130 pound bantams being turned into D-Men. Very few actual game situations happen, no 2 on 1's, you don't have to backcheck, you can't forecheck. If you're going to use a 3-3 format I think you also need to weigh it towrads just getting forwards out of it. It's been killing the high school programs not getting fundamentally sound kids, no grinders, just skaters.
We also do ours in under a week which really hurts anyone invoved in other fall sports. This year we're trying a closed tryout format, but I think in the long run it will just lead to more problems. Though peoples view of the same thing can be dramatically different usually a concensous can be drawn by a majority, closed door meetings in general lead to more suspicion than open ones do and we have enough suspicion involved in tryouts already.
We also do ours in under a week which really hurts anyone invoved in other fall sports. This year we're trying a closed tryout format, but I think in the long run it will just lead to more problems. Though peoples view of the same thing can be dramatically different usually a concensous can be drawn by a majority, closed door meetings in general lead to more suspicion than open ones do and we have enough suspicion involved in tryouts already.
Split em up based on where they were last year.
Drop the puck 5on5 and some 4on4 and thats it. 3 sessions is all you need , 4 at the most.
Everything else is boloney. Skating drills are for development, not evaluation.
The kids are competing against each other for spots. They should therefore play against one another and not another community or team during tryouts.
Get tryouts over with as quick as possible.
Its hard enough on everybody when they last a week. Dont prolong the agony. Nothing material is going to change if you drag it out. The #1 and #15 player arent going to exchange spots if you drag it out.
Get the kids on a team , give em a coach and make em better.
Drop the puck 5on5 and some 4on4 and thats it. 3 sessions is all you need , 4 at the most.
Everything else is boloney. Skating drills are for development, not evaluation.
The kids are competing against each other for spots. They should therefore play against one another and not another community or team during tryouts.
Get tryouts over with as quick as possible.
Its hard enough on everybody when they last a week. Dont prolong the agony. Nothing material is going to change if you drag it out. The #1 and #15 player arent going to exchange spots if you drag it out.
Get the kids on a team , give em a coach and make em better.
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State Champ 97
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Wait a minute. We want the best kids at the highest levels. Put them in different situations and see how they react. I would say use more 5-5 rather than 3-3 but skating drills and scrimmage against other teams can tell you a lot about a player. I do believe that the cream will rise to the top in a week to 10 days.
Following the simple procedure set out will get the best players at the highest levels. It works at all levels of the game.
What do you want to know about a player that dropping the puck 5on 5 wont tell you?
Do you play in a 3on3 District?
Does your District have a skills competition that determines playoff spots?
KISS is the best approach.
What do you want to know about a player that dropping the puck 5on 5 wont tell you?
Do you play in a 3on3 District?
Does your District have a skills competition that determines playoff spots?
KISS is the best approach.
I heard from a business owner that owns a hockey training business that eden prairie has a player development person that has an off season training facility, is a grader in tryouts and is the pee wee a coach. if true, doesn't that create huge conflict of interest concerns for ep parents? in other words, if you don't go to his camp and play the game you may be overlooked.
Can anyone verify this?
Can anyone verify this?
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mnhockey36299
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instigator
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Whether this guy's kid got cut or not is irrelavent to the question asked. Yes, Noel Rahn is the PWA coach at EP, and yes he did buy what used to be NorthStar Ponds (now Velocity Hockey Center), and yes he does run hockey training camps. Personally, I feel that presents a conflict of interest. I don't know Noel Rahn from anybody but I hope the guy is stand-up enough to not let his business interfere with his coaching responsibilities.
Why is there this rush in the lower levels of hockey (and for that matter, a number of sports) to lock teams down after a brief try out period? Most associations use the same or similar uniforms at each level so why can't a kid that starts on a 'B' team move up if they play well enough in the early games and similarly, an 'A' player move down. I see JV players move up and Varsity players move down. I see Jrs move up and down in leagues, and I see the Wild and Houston sending players back and forth.
I've seen situations where kids will play like mad during tryouts to make an A or B team and then never bother to put out that kind of effort again in the season. Similarly, I've seen kids just miss making a team, work hard and perform well above those at the level above them. When that happens it is sometimes followed the next year by the kid looking for a different outlet for their hockey.
It would be relatively easy for MN Hockey to allow kids to move. They simply would have to be registered within the association at in their age group. Let the associations make sure they are only playing at one level at a time. The rosters for any given tournament or game could be different but are submitted before hand anyway.
I've seen situations where kids will play like mad during tryouts to make an A or B team and then never bother to put out that kind of effort again in the season. Similarly, I've seen kids just miss making a team, work hard and perform well above those at the level above them. When that happens it is sometimes followed the next year by the kid looking for a different outlet for their hockey.
It would be relatively easy for MN Hockey to allow kids to move. They simply would have to be registered within the association at in their age group. Let the associations make sure they are only playing at one level at a time. The rosters for any given tournament or game could be different but are submitted before hand anyway.
Shuck the puck!!!
move up
actually a player on a B team can move to the A team and from an A team to a B team. This is allowed until FINAL roster verification- towards the end of December I believe.
It has been done but I think lots of coaches and boards are worried about potential issues when if they do it.
I agree with your post!!
It has been done but I think lots of coaches and boards are worried about potential issues when if they do it.
I agree with your post!!
pucker52, I think the answer to your question is because it isnt that important and it isnt worth the agrravation.
It isnt high school and it sure as heck isnt the NHL.
Many would find it inappropriate to have a 10 year old switch teams after 2 months of the season because he 'wasnt doing the job'
The emphasis after tryouts should be on settleing in with the team , getting to know the coach and forgetting about which team you are on. Keeping a demotion hanging over a kids head isnt healthy and probably inappropriate to youth sports.
It isnt high school and it sure as heck isnt the NHL.
Many would find it inappropriate to have a 10 year old switch teams after 2 months of the season because he 'wasnt doing the job'
The emphasis after tryouts should be on settleing in with the team , getting to know the coach and forgetting about which team you are on. Keeping a demotion hanging over a kids head isnt healthy and probably inappropriate to youth sports.
Yeah you're right packerboy. They'd rather sit on the end of the bench and get three shifts a game?!? And please don't tell me coaches don't do that, even at the lower levels. When I coached we played teams in Mites that doubled shifted the better kids. In Mites! In squirts, A and B, I saw kids on the other team leave the ice in tears because they had one shift in the third period of close games. I think if offered the choice, anyone of them would have said, move me down so I can at least play.
I also watched two teams completely disintegrate because someone had messed up on evaluating the goalies. The upper teams were saddled with kids that simply didn't have the skills. The goalies became the subject of hatred by their teammates because the goalies on the lower level teams were better. By the end of the season on the one team, they were skating with less than 8 kids; of the rest, two went on to discover wrestling never to return to hockey, three became practice players for a Wisconsin team and never came back to the association, and the other two disappeared into the ether. On the other team, there were two lockerroom fights and an on-ice incident before the goalie gave up the game after three of the skaters had quit.
My time on the bench was limited to a few years and I always thought to myself, if this is what I see at games and tournaments, how much of this is going on around the state? I can't imagine that the association that I was involved in was that much better or worst than the majority of others. Maybe it was worse but in talking with folks from across the state over the past two decades, I don't think so.
I also watched two teams completely disintegrate because someone had messed up on evaluating the goalies. The upper teams were saddled with kids that simply didn't have the skills. The goalies became the subject of hatred by their teammates because the goalies on the lower level teams were better. By the end of the season on the one team, they were skating with less than 8 kids; of the rest, two went on to discover wrestling never to return to hockey, three became practice players for a Wisconsin team and never came back to the association, and the other two disappeared into the ether. On the other team, there were two lockerroom fights and an on-ice incident before the goalie gave up the game after three of the skaters had quit.
My time on the bench was limited to a few years and I always thought to myself, if this is what I see at games and tournaments, how much of this is going on around the state? I can't imagine that the association that I was involved in was that much better or worst than the majority of others. Maybe it was worse but in talking with folks from across the state over the past two decades, I don't think so.
Shuck the puck!!!
Well pucker52, The association(s) that experience comes from have many more problems than having kids switching teams is going to solve.
If they screw up the tryouts that bad, they dont know what they are doing.
Are the same people that screw it up in the first place going to be making the decisions about who moves up and down?
I am pretty sure your experience is anything but typical.
If they screw up the tryouts that bad, they dont know what they are doing.
Are the same people that screw it up in the first place going to be making the decisions about who moves up and down?
I am pretty sure your experience is anything but typical.