2006-07 Bantam B1 preview

HShockey2180 · Post by **HShockey2180** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:36 pm

I agree, the WBL tournament is stacked with good teams and should be a good indicator of which teams are the best. Teams in the tournament are

WBL Orange
WBL Black
Edina
Rochester
Wayzata
Eden Prarie
Duluth East
Minnetonka

http://www.wblhockey.com/site_maintenan ... RACKET.PDF

ice00breaker · Post by **ice00breaker** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:44 pm

I take back what I said about Tonka earlier. Unless there off to a really slow start, then I dont see them fighting in D6

MNHockeyObserver · Post by **MNHockeyObserver** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:20 pm

Still 6 teams in D6 with a fighting chance. (And no, Tonka is not one of them.) I think people are overlooking Burnsville. Second game of the D6 season is EP Black vs. Burnsville. Should answer a lot of questions about both teams. Still haven't heard from people on who the sleeper in Bantam B will be this season.

I don't see EP Black as the #2 team, but those with a good memory will recall that the PWB championship game two years ago was EP vs. Wayzata. Both programs had two teams at that level, I believe. Maybe I am wrong. Upcoming scrimmages with Blake and Centennial for the Black team.

The Moose has quickly become the first test at Bantam B. But there are still good teams in the Roseville and Hopkins Turkey Tournaments. Eagan vs. Chaska in the Final of Hopkins on 11/26 will be a great game. And watch for the 11/4 D6 semifinal matchup between Green and Bville down in Richfield this weekend. The Blaze load the trophy case early.

Would love to hear other opinions on the Moose, but I'll start:
White beats Orange, Blue beats Rochester, EP Black beats WBL Black and East wallops Tonka. Blue beats White, EP Black beats East, Orange beats Rochester and WBL Black wallops Tonka. (No love for Tonka, I guess. Sorry.) On Sunday, Tonka beats Rochester (there's the love), Orange and Black tie for Consolation (and leave the ice singing Kumbaya), White Beats East for bronze and . . . awww heck, I don't know the last one. Part of me says Black is still pissed from the whooping they got at Regionals last season, but I don't know how many returners they actually have. And part of me says Blue is destined to prevent Black from repeating as Moosers. Guess I will have to book my flight to WBL Int'l Airport for Sunday, November 26th. Arriving Gate 1 on the Orange Concourse.

ice00breaker · Post by **ice00breaker** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:59 pm

Here are my top teams (in parenthesis is the record of the team 2 years ago at PWB1. Obviously, tougher districts make it hard to obtain better records.)

1. Wayzata Blue (Now a B1-1; the combined record of the teams are 63-16-4; Gold went 40-6-3)
2. EP Black (combined with red they were 52-25-7)
3. Edina White (combined with green 64-23-4)
4. EP Red (combined record see EP Black)
5. Chaska (34-8-2)
6. Stillwater (39-7-2)
7. Maple Grove (combined 59-20-5; Crimson went 42-7-3)
8. Duluth East (27-7-2)
9. Blaine (37-6-4)
10. Eagan (28-10)
or Burnsville (20-16-3)

ShootPassScore · Post by **ShootPassScore** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:57 am

HockeyObserver comes through with a very entertaining bracket prediction for the Moose.

I have been hearing a lot about D6 in here. D10 has a number of teams that deserve consideration. Did anyone see Andover Gold last year? They were a team to be reckoned with! I'm not sure about this year, havent heard anything. I saw Blaine last week they are a good skating team. Unfortunately they have a weakness......watch them and you'll see. Then there is Centennial, Princeton, Elk River.....didn't Pine City have a solid team last year?

D3 has a couple of dark horses. Blake can play but I think their stud Brunette moved up. It was pretty bleak after that line. MG may contend, like someone said they had good PeeWee B teams the last two years.

I like the idea of Burnsville being good. They were close last year.

ice00breaker · Post by **ice00breaker** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:55 pm

Edina Green should be in my top 10 above I forgot about them. I am thinking anywhere from #2 to #8

ice00breaker · Post by **ice00breaker** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:49 pm

I know Centennial Red Lost to Edina Green 4-0 but dont know there other scores. Does anyone have any of the scores?

blueblood · Post by **blueblood** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:04 pm

It's still early in the season and teams are adjusting to the new rules.

Scoring seems to be down, unless you're Wayzata Blue. The Moose Goheen tourney is loaded, along with the DAHA and Grand Rapids tourneys (haven't seen Edina's pool play lineup yet).

Relax on Tonka, they are okay, not great, but not as bad as people are saying right now. They have set up a decent preseason schedule with games against perennial powers such as Blaine, a trip to Duluth, and some (hopefully) winnable games to create team confidence.

I will be on the watch for Burnsville and Maple Grove. Here's my preseason top 15 (20 is a stretch at this point). Wait until after the Thanksgiving tourneys to get a good picture of this year's B1 teams.

1 Wayzata Blue
2 Centennial Red
3 Eden Prairie Black
4 Duluth East
5 Stillwater
6 Edina Green
7 Moorhead Black
8 White Bear Lake Black
9 Rochester Black
10 Eden Prairie Red
11 Edina White
12 White Bear Lake Orange
13 Blaine
14 Grand Rapids
15 Chaska

ice00breaker · Post by **ice00breaker** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:13 pm

Im sorry but Centennial Red, Both WBL's and Rochester are so overrated. Unless they suddenly got better (which obviously they did not since Centennial got hammered by Edina and both WBL's tied Centennial) from two years ago where they all were very average teams, I do not see how they could possibly be rated there. And I know that everyone wants the north teams to do good but if Noorhead or Grand Rapids were down by the competiton in D6 or D3 or maybe a few other districts, then they would be very lucky to finish the season above .500

Charliedog · Post by **Charliedog** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:09 pm

Do the Associations with multiple B teams (Edina, White Bear, etc) try to even out the talent or is one team usually stronger?

formerhockeymom · Post by **formerhockeymom** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:52 pm

I think they try to even them out, at least Edina does...just doesn't always work out that way

EagleGuy91 · Post by **EagleGuy91** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:59 pm

C-Dog. It depends on the District policies. Districts 10 and 3 do not have a policy about balanced teams, so you will see Centennial Red much stronger than Black and Wayzata Blue stronger than Gold. I am not sure about Dirstict 2, but White Bear's team are usually balanced. District 6 has a policy regarding balanced teams, so Edina and Eden Prairie generally pick their teams based on a draft of the available players at that level. Not sure what the D8 policy is for places like Rochester, but their teams are generally picked by geography. And I believe Lakeville picks their North/South teams like Wayz and Cent.

IM4U2C · Post by **IM4U2C** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:51 pm

RANKINGS

1. WAYZATA BLUE (CHAMPIONS 2 YEARS AGO, HAVE 2 TEAMS AND STACK ONE, GREAT OFFENSE AND GREAT DEFENSE.)
2. EDEN PRAIRIE RED (RUNNER UP 2 YEARS AGO WITH 7 PLAYERS FROM THAT TEAM-ADDED 4 "A" PLAYERS FROM 2 YEARS BACK-FORD IN NETS)
3. EDINA GREEN (SOUNDLY BEAT CENTENNIAL, SPEED AND GOOD GOALTENDING, QUICK FOREWARDS WHO CAN SCORE)
4. EDEN PRAIRIE BLACK (2 PLAYERS FROM RUNNER UP 2 YEARS AGO, BIG AND HAS ALL VETERANS. ALSO HAS PLAYERS FROM LAST YEARS TEAM THAT WAS RANKED #1 FOR MOST OF YEAR, SOLID GOALTENDING AND GOOD DEFENSE)
5. EDINA WHITE (WHAT CAN I SAY-EDINA IS EDINA, 2 EQUAL TEAMS)
6. CHASKA (RANKED #1 FOR MUCH OF THE YEAR 2 YEARS BACK, ONE "B1"TEAM)
7. MAPLE GROVE (ALSO RANKED #1 FOR MUCH OF THE YEAR 2 YEARS BACK)
8. DULUTH EAST (CONSOLATION CHAMPIONS - 2 YEARS BACK)
9. BLAINE (LOST TO DULUTH IN CONSOLATON CHAMPIONSHIP - 2 YEARS BACK)
10. STILLWATER (HIGH IN THE POLES FOR ENTIRE YEAR, 2 YEARS AGO

ice00breaker · Post by **ice00breaker** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:14 am

It is nice to see someone post some rankings that actually use history from 2 years ago

IM4U2C · Post by **IM4U2C** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:12 am

Hey,

Minnesota hockey runs on 2 year cycles and should tell us who "some" of the top teams "should" be. Of course there will be some teams that will surprise and there will be some that flat out dissapoint

MNHockeyObserver · Post by **MNHockeyObserver** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:48 am

The only two flies in your ointment are the number of kids quitting hockey between PW and BA (which in theory would be the same ratio across all associations and therefore hard to factor in) and team selection . . .meaning it is hard to put Edina Green and EP Red ahead of White and Black (and the same would hold true in the reverse) because the players on those teams two years ago are not necessarily with the same 16 other kids this season. And the coaches are often different, which would make more of an impact - pos or neg - later in the season.

The 2-yr pattern does tend to hold form quite often, though.

ShootPassScore · Post by **ShootPassScore** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:08 pm

It's too hard to make a prediction based on peewee past performances. Like he said players quit. The biggest thing is growth. There is no bigger difference between levels than there is between peewees and bantams. Size, speed and skill are all amplified more at these levels than any other time in hockey. On top of that there is better coaching (generally) at the bantam level and sometimes less opportunity for players that were B1 level at peewee to play B1 level at bantam. You can only go based on repuation of the association and of the coach (if he coached the team previously) and even that is pretty shaky. Right now its all about who plays who and who beats who.

Centennial and Stillwater may have down years this year, this is an aberration but it happens to all associations, cant predict it!

IM4U2C · Post by **IM4U2C** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:58 pm

What else, other than past performance can a reasonable person rate teams before most teams even play a game. You need to be reminded these are basically pre-season favorites. This will change once play begins. But with that said, how can you put teams who have not performed well in the past ahead of teams that have a history of performing well (State tournaments, regional tournaments, districts).
Ranking one equally picked team (Edina, Eden Prairie, Centennial, White Bear Lake) in the top ten and leaving one out makes no sense to me. If that is the case, is one of the coaches that picks these "equal" teams brilliant and one an idiot?
By the way, Lets play hockey has followed peewees and bantam teams in the past and has found that teams that have good peewee teams generally do very well at the bantam level. (They actually followed them through High School, but with open enrollment, I would assume that has changed.

IM4U2C · Post by **IM4U2C** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:14 pm

By the way,

Could you please provide me your supporting data that has Bantam coaches being better than Peewee coaches? Maybe you could list a few examples?

ice00breaker · Post by **ice00breaker** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:41 pm

That is exactly my point that these are preseason favorites that should be ranked based on performance two years ago. Coaching does also factor in. I heard that the Wayzata coach (I think Blue) is good along with EP Red's. I also heard Chaska's coach was the coach of the Peewee state champs from last year. Wayzata Gold's Peewee B1 coach has made a run at states since they started state tournaments for the B teams. So, yes coaching does have an influence, but only to a certain point. I dont understand how centennial and WBL and Rochestor are up there if their teams were not very noticable 2 years ago.

ShootPassScore · Post by **ShootPassScore** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:17 pm

Well that's great insight and I didnt know about the LPH story. The fact is success on a hockey team involves a chemistry. There is never two teams the same and players develop differently as they grow up. Can you agree that peewee to bantam development is the most drastic? I would agree that looking at past Bantam performances may be a barometer, but in no way does the success of a peewee team indicate success in bantams at the B level. A teams are different, they are the ceiling and they generally stick together.

Regarding the coaches, it takes a great deal of character to coach younger players and it really is a blast. I have no beef with that. But the goal of coaching has got to be getting the big boys. If the association is doing things right the best coaches should be coaching the bantams. The high school program demands that. Practices and drills have to be thought out and systems/skills are of a higher magnitude. I dont think it requires specific examples. I'm not trying to start drama by calling someone out, let's be realistic. If you took offense to it, sorry.

HShockey2180 · Post by **HShockey2180** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:34 pm

Ice000breaker,
I don't think its fair to say Rochester is that overrated, I don't know about Centennial and WBL besides that WBL had a very good team last year. For example you said Rochester did not perform well 2 years ago, well alot of the players on this team, had this been last year, would be on either one of the 2 A teams, but Rochester is only playing 1 A team this year, therefore this team is partly made up of players who would previously have been "A" players and on either North or South A in peewee's before that system fell through. Those players who hypothetically may have been A this year, were on the B1 team last year who went to regionals, and ended up losing to Wayzata Blue 2-1, who ended up winning it all. This upsets the balance of the 2 year cycle so i don't think you can make that assumption. Before you ask, yes I am involved with Rochester Hockey, but they do have a strong coach this year (returning from last season), and about half the team from the same team last year because of only 1 A team this year. There were a few kids placed on this team to lessen the difference between the B1 and B2 teams, although i won't get into specifics. I am not saying they are better than all these other teams, but they are certainly not "overrated".

IM4U2C · Post by **IM4U2C** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:18 pm

I would assume that many of the kids playing B1 hockey two years ago would again play B1 This year. I would say the kids on all these teams will grow the same. (or do kids at Centennial, Edina, Eden Prairie grow faster and bigger). As for your comment on coaches, you are just stupid. Just because someone coaches a bantam team does not make him a better coach than the peewee coach. Boy you are stupid. As for a peewee A moving to a bantam A, I would say is a pretty big jump. Being a Peewee "A" from a big organization and playing at B1 is not a very big deal (there will be a little adjustment period). The skill level of the previous "A" now "B1" player will more than make up for size.

Take your big boys theory and stick em. Give me average size, skill, and speed. (and two or three big defenseman). Bad coaches prefer big kids so if all else fails, just hit. Big and slow does not win championships.

By the way, I didn't write the LPH article, I just read the findings, and you are still stupid.

eagleskater81 · Post by **eagleskater81** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:20 pm

yea i have to agree on the part that Rochester is not over-rated. same with both WBl and centennial red. they are better than people give them credit for.

i still think it needs some adjustments but i would wait until after the a couple of big tournements come around before it is finalized. i'm not sure exacly where these teams stand but heres just a rough draft.

1. Wayazata Blue
2. Eden Prarie Black
3. Centennial
4. Stillwater
5. Duluth East
6. Moorhead
7. WBL Black
8. Edina Green
9. Rochester Black
10. WBL Orange

ShootPassScore · Post by **ShootPassScore** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:33 am

Name calling. Very mature way to debate.

"Big boys" doesn't refer to the size of a player it refers to the age level. If you can't debate a point without calling your opponent stupid. You have a long way to go.

You've twisted my points so far out of context I dont even know what to rebut with. I guess I dont understand your points at all. Good luck though.

You are right, I am wrong and stupid. You win, big man. Go tell all of your friends how big you are.

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2006-07 Bantam B1 preview

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