last i checked they had one banner, not banners.
they should be better this year with the improved underclassman returning added to another good year for transfers. i can only see a couple teams that will push them this year but don't know if any of them will actually do it.
the battle should be for 2nd place this year as ep should blow by everyone, but inevitably there will be someone that will have a shot at beating them, just a matter if they get enough luck to actually do it.
cdh could surprise as they also have a good group of outsiders coming in.
ep?
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ghshockeyfan
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ghshockeyfan
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PondHock07
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ghshockeyfan
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Transilvania is what I heard one person calling the EP V program (assuming in reference to transfers).
Bottom line. EP is probably one of the 3-4 best ever HS programs in G HS hockey. The talent & depth is amazing. Also, some great kids there and I can't blame them for seeking out the best opportunities even though I know it hurts the hometown programs.
Bottom line. EP is probably one of the 3-4 best ever HS programs in G HS hockey. The talent & depth is amazing. Also, some great kids there and I can't blame them for seeking out the best opportunities even though I know it hurts the hometown programs.
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defensedad
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Transilvania
GHS
How many did they get this year? 3or 4? First of all, if Morris had homegrown talent, I would totally agree that this is one of the best HS programs ever! You can not call a transfer team of all stars a good program! Like stated before in other threads,, they should be called the SW All Stars. The talent and depth is totally amazing. My guess is that EP grown girls will only account for about 20% of points this year. What are the chances that a player from last years state championship team may not even make varsity? I would not like to be one of the parents who had a daughter who was a border JV/V player and then gets bumped because a player that is better transfers in. There is no team that will beat EP this year and probably next also.
The thing that bothers me the most is your quote.
" Also, some great kids there and I can't blame them for seeking out the best opportunities even though I know it hurts the hometown programs."
That is certainly not a statement a coach should be making! The sport is about teamwork, not about individual effort. As a coach I would have thought you would have been more about a team effort for support, not one of what is best for an individual player. This is about what is best for the team, not about a select few. Do you treat the stars on your team different than the avarage players? I hope not.
Transilvaniaghshockeyfan wrote:Transilvania is what I heard one person calling the EP V program (assuming in reference to transfers).
Bottom line. EP is probably one of the 3-4 best ever HS programs in G HS hockey. The talent & depth is amazing. Also, some great kids there and I can't blame them for seeking out the best opportunities even though I know it hurts the hometown programs.
How many did they get this year? 3or 4? First of all, if Morris had homegrown talent, I would totally agree that this is one of the best HS programs ever! You can not call a transfer team of all stars a good program! Like stated before in other threads,, they should be called the SW All Stars. The talent and depth is totally amazing. My guess is that EP grown girls will only account for about 20% of points this year. What are the chances that a player from last years state championship team may not even make varsity? I would not like to be one of the parents who had a daughter who was a border JV/V player and then gets bumped because a player that is better transfers in. There is no team that will beat EP this year and probably next also.
The thing that bothers me the most is your quote.
" Also, some great kids there and I can't blame them for seeking out the best opportunities even though I know it hurts the hometown programs."
That is certainly not a statement a coach should be making! The sport is about teamwork, not about individual effort. As a coach I would have thought you would have been more about a team effort for support, not one of what is best for an individual player. This is about what is best for the team, not about a select few. Do you treat the stars on your team different than the avarage players? I hope not.
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ghshockeyfan
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Education. That could be one reason that there are "best opportunities."
I can think of some others, but the bottom line is that anyone who knows me knows that I'm dedicated to a fault it seems sometimes - AND I don't run around trying to find a ready-made program/opportunity just looking for what's best now - I like the challenge of (re)building somewhere as that's what true dedeication and coaching is what about. One of these times I'll get to see it through to fruition.
There is a lot to be said for staying in a sitaution that isn't best for the individual. I'll give you that. I don't know that putting the needs first of others that do NOT have a common goal/mindset/approach is what's best always.
Each year I ask my kids if they want to transfer, and if so I tell them I'll help them do so, seek out options, etc. The bottom line is that I don't want a player in my program that would rather be elsewhere. For that reason, I believe that all players should seek out what they think is best for them.
I'll catch heck for this comment, but it is what it is. I don't believe in guilting someone into staying somewhere that isn't best for them (in their opinion). Either they want to stay or they don't. That's the bottom line.
The interesting part is that the "grass isn't always greener" elsewhere, and some need to learn that life lesson the hard way as well. Sometimes you don't realize how good you have it until you go elsewhere, and also sometimes in going elsewhere you find out that it is indeed a heck of a lot better.
As for treating Stars better than Average players, I hope you get out to IGH/Vets one day during my learn-to-skate program that supplements my JV to see what I'm truly "all about." Maybe that will answer your question. The truth is that I coach for the begining player that overachieves. I'm not an elite coach at heart, which should be evident in much of what I do - the only differnece is that no one cares to hear about the beginners and we always talk about the elite... We've had 10 new girls try hockey in grades 9-12 in the last 2 years and I'm probably just as, if not more so, proud of them than any stars.
And, yes - I treat players differently on my team - so I do treat my Stars differently. The beginning players get a lot of attention in a better player-to-coach ratio than the Stars or average players. I should ask how many HS V coaches spend 1-1.5 hrs a day with beginning skaters in the JV capacity after their V duties have finished...
Yep, I definitely cater to the stars... care more about them... live to coach them... it's all about them...
I can think of some others, but the bottom line is that anyone who knows me knows that I'm dedicated to a fault it seems sometimes - AND I don't run around trying to find a ready-made program/opportunity just looking for what's best now - I like the challenge of (re)building somewhere as that's what true dedeication and coaching is what about. One of these times I'll get to see it through to fruition.
There is a lot to be said for staying in a sitaution that isn't best for the individual. I'll give you that. I don't know that putting the needs first of others that do NOT have a common goal/mindset/approach is what's best always.
Each year I ask my kids if they want to transfer, and if so I tell them I'll help them do so, seek out options, etc. The bottom line is that I don't want a player in my program that would rather be elsewhere. For that reason, I believe that all players should seek out what they think is best for them.
I'll catch heck for this comment, but it is what it is. I don't believe in guilting someone into staying somewhere that isn't best for them (in their opinion). Either they want to stay or they don't. That's the bottom line.
The interesting part is that the "grass isn't always greener" elsewhere, and some need to learn that life lesson the hard way as well. Sometimes you don't realize how good you have it until you go elsewhere, and also sometimes in going elsewhere you find out that it is indeed a heck of a lot better.
As for treating Stars better than Average players, I hope you get out to IGH/Vets one day during my learn-to-skate program that supplements my JV to see what I'm truly "all about." Maybe that will answer your question. The truth is that I coach for the begining player that overachieves. I'm not an elite coach at heart, which should be evident in much of what I do - the only differnece is that no one cares to hear about the beginners and we always talk about the elite... We've had 10 new girls try hockey in grades 9-12 in the last 2 years and I'm probably just as, if not more so, proud of them than any stars.
And, yes - I treat players differently on my team - so I do treat my Stars differently. The beginning players get a lot of attention in a better player-to-coach ratio than the Stars or average players. I should ask how many HS V coaches spend 1-1.5 hrs a day with beginning skaters in the JV capacity after their V duties have finished...
Yep, I definitely cater to the stars... care more about them... live to coach them... it's all about them...
GHS does more behind the scene stuff for girls hockey than anyone in the state, period. He is by far the biggest and most vocal promoter of girls hockey at all levels in Minnesota. If there ever was a person who should be in charge of girls hockey in Minnesota, it would be him. He is one of the few coaches around that a parent could be totally confident that his or her daughter would be treated with utmost respect and have a great hockey experience.
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hockeyrube
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xwild,
It's been a long time since I have posted on here, but the subject of EP always gets me going. Here is my two cents worth. I am an old timer - old fashioned, so my internal bias will be very obvious.
Agree with your comments on GHS. GHS is the real deal when it comes to supporting girls hockey at all levels. He is a great spokesperson for the game of girls hockey - he has lived most of it at every level.
However, I have to agree with defense dad on EP. It is truely an All-Star Team, and hardly what I would call a "program". I am not criticizing the kids that decided to O/E to EP over the past few seasons, as they certainly have that right. I won't debate their reasoning for O/E, but I will most definitely question whether Academics was the major motivation. Look at the actual statute on O/E - it was meant to allow kids to transfer schools for Academic reasons - NOT SPORTS. At the very least, call a spade a spade - EP is a very good SW All-Star Team.
Thankfully, the MSHSL will probably have the good sense to institute a 1-year waiting period on O/E athletes - and we can then stop having this debate on the motivation of O/E student athletes. If we are all to believe that Academics is the motivation for most of the O/E to EP, then I guess the kids will keep on coming - only they'll give up a year of athletics to do so. Anyone want to speculate that the stream of hockey players O/E to EP will come to a halt after this new rule ???????????
Again, I am old fashioned and not a big fan of O/E for Athletic reasons. I believe kids can learn a much greater life lesson by showing leadership within their hometown programs, and helping to make their hometown teams better for everyone.
Good luck to all this season.
Rube
It's been a long time since I have posted on here, but the subject of EP always gets me going. Here is my two cents worth. I am an old timer - old fashioned, so my internal bias will be very obvious.
Agree with your comments on GHS. GHS is the real deal when it comes to supporting girls hockey at all levels. He is a great spokesperson for the game of girls hockey - he has lived most of it at every level.
However, I have to agree with defense dad on EP. It is truely an All-Star Team, and hardly what I would call a "program". I am not criticizing the kids that decided to O/E to EP over the past few seasons, as they certainly have that right. I won't debate their reasoning for O/E, but I will most definitely question whether Academics was the major motivation. Look at the actual statute on O/E - it was meant to allow kids to transfer schools for Academic reasons - NOT SPORTS. At the very least, call a spade a spade - EP is a very good SW All-Star Team.
Thankfully, the MSHSL will probably have the good sense to institute a 1-year waiting period on O/E athletes - and we can then stop having this debate on the motivation of O/E student athletes. If we are all to believe that Academics is the motivation for most of the O/E to EP, then I guess the kids will keep on coming - only they'll give up a year of athletics to do so. Anyone want to speculate that the stream of hockey players O/E to EP will come to a halt after this new rule ???????????
Again, I am old fashioned and not a big fan of O/E for Athletic reasons. I believe kids can learn a much greater life lesson by showing leadership within their hometown programs, and helping to make their hometown teams better for everyone.
Good luck to all this season.
Rube
Rube,
Totally agree with you about EP. They are more like the AAA teams that get thrown together during the off season. They should play in the same league that SSM does.
OE has totally changed (for the worse) what HS sports should be. I am also somewhat of an oldtimer. My memories of HS sports at its best was watching SSP v Sibley at Wakota in the early 70's before a totally packed Wakota Arena. That was HS hockey at its best. There were other just as exciting rivalries in other parts of the state: Johnson v Harding, Edina v Richfield, Jefferson v Kennedy, etc.
I really don't see how an EP resident can get excited about watching EP play this year; especially if they happen to have young daughters in the EP program. Parent to child: "Let's go watch the HS team that you may play for when you get to HS, unless there are 5 or 6 players that come in from other areas and take your spot."
Same deal for the past SSP teams; great teams, but lots of non-resident players.
Totally agree with you about EP. They are more like the AAA teams that get thrown together during the off season. They should play in the same league that SSM does.
OE has totally changed (for the worse) what HS sports should be. I am also somewhat of an oldtimer. My memories of HS sports at its best was watching SSP v Sibley at Wakota in the early 70's before a totally packed Wakota Arena. That was HS hockey at its best. There were other just as exciting rivalries in other parts of the state: Johnson v Harding, Edina v Richfield, Jefferson v Kennedy, etc.
I really don't see how an EP resident can get excited about watching EP play this year; especially if they happen to have young daughters in the EP program. Parent to child: "Let's go watch the HS team that you may play for when you get to HS, unless there are 5 or 6 players that come in from other areas and take your spot."
Same deal for the past SSP teams; great teams, but lots of non-resident players.
Last year at the state tournament, Eden Prarie had about 1/3 of the fans compared to Stillwater/Roseville/Coon Rapids. How can that not be embarassing? Eden Prarie has a good youth program with numbers. Their U14 team won state a few years back. Not to mention their high school is one of the largest in the state. In my opinion if a high school coach/AD wants to take a bunch of transfers, go for it. You will not win over the respect of the youth program and eventually your well will run dry. Isn't part of the fun of winning a state championship, is being able to share it with the community? I know when I won a few there was nothing like bringing that trophy back to the high school gym with everyone from the community there to celebrate with us. As a person who has been around women's hockey since the early 1990's it is really frustrating to see people who do not see big picture and realize that stripping communities of talent only makes the game worse in the long run. Why not go back to co-op teams so we guarantee the best talent only gets to play....its sickening. Its not just eden prarie. I think all of the big teams have a few transfers on their team.
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hockeyrube
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gopher25,
Very well said indeed. Evidence of the well running dry...... check out SSP's youth program which didn't even field a U12A team for the past 4-5 years. Just now they are on the rebound thanks to a rebuilding effort at the youth level. I was at the EP/Stillwater game at State, and remember the bunches of Stillwater youth players in their jerseys cheering madly.
Nobody can deny that the EP team this year will be unbeatable. They are scary good and way deep. But don't glorify it as some kind of dynasty built over many years of playing together as youth players. Call it what it is, and move on. They are in their own league, but so is SSM, Ice Cats, Walser, etc etc.
Again - the MSHSL will take care of this issue, and those kids who want to transfer O/E will have every opportunity to do so. They will simply have to give up their 1st year of athletics at the new school, which shouldn't bother them at all if we are to believe that they are simply looking for a better academic environment with more academic opportunities.
Amen
Rube
Very well said indeed. Evidence of the well running dry...... check out SSP's youth program which didn't even field a U12A team for the past 4-5 years. Just now they are on the rebound thanks to a rebuilding effort at the youth level. I was at the EP/Stillwater game at State, and remember the bunches of Stillwater youth players in their jerseys cheering madly.
Nobody can deny that the EP team this year will be unbeatable. They are scary good and way deep. But don't glorify it as some kind of dynasty built over many years of playing together as youth players. Call it what it is, and move on. They are in their own league, but so is SSM, Ice Cats, Walser, etc etc.
Again - the MSHSL will take care of this issue, and those kids who want to transfer O/E will have every opportunity to do so. They will simply have to give up their 1st year of athletics at the new school, which shouldn't bother them at all if we are to believe that they are simply looking for a better academic environment with more academic opportunities.
Amen
Rube
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ghshockeyfan
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Thanks all for the kind words and I think this has been a positive discusion. I just hate being misinterpreted but that's what happens...
The bottom line to me is that we should have good rules re: open enrollment that allow kids to get the education they want while not penalizing them too much athletically either. For this reason, I would support a player sitting out of sections/state for a year before I'd want to take away a year of HS hockey from them as that's probably not good for their hockey - but also overall personal - development.
I have mixed emotions on this as I was one of the first of those kids that went to another HS for a number of reasons.
Great discusion though, and I do agree that there can be a hometown backlash/impact long term if the xfers aren't accepted well, etc.
The bottom line to me is that we should have good rules re: open enrollment that allow kids to get the education they want while not penalizing them too much athletically either. For this reason, I would support a player sitting out of sections/state for a year before I'd want to take away a year of HS hockey from them as that's probably not good for their hockey - but also overall personal - development.
I have mixed emotions on this as I was one of the first of those kids that went to another HS for a number of reasons.
Great discusion though, and I do agree that there can be a hometown backlash/impact long term if the xfers aren't accepted well, etc.
New rules will make it harder but will really only penalize those kids with minimal impact on their new team. The difference makers will simply move, transfer guardianship, or any of the other ways around it. There will also be more kids transferring going into 9th grade. If people want out of their current situation bad enough it will happen. Rules like these rarely have the desired impact and often the result is the exact opposite of what was intended.
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hockeyrube
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ghs/xk1,
Good points all around. Respect everyone's thoughts on a rather challenging subject. Ghs-I like your idea on just sitting out sections/state rather than the entire season - could be a compromise of sorts.
xk1 - agree on the "people will find a way" theory - always amazed at the lengths some people will go to in order to further their own personal gain.
ghs - good luck this season - sounds like some good skaters from the U12A coming up to help out - wish you guys the best.
Rube
Good points all around. Respect everyone's thoughts on a rather challenging subject. Ghs-I like your idea on just sitting out sections/state rather than the entire season - could be a compromise of sorts.
xk1 - agree on the "people will find a way" theory - always amazed at the lengths some people will go to in order to further their own personal gain.
ghs - good luck this season - sounds like some good skaters from the U12A coming up to help out - wish you guys the best.
Rube
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ghshockeyfan
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xk1 knows his stuff. I may not always 100% agree, but he brings up some very valid points here xfer wise.
Re: my team... I lost 2 returning players to ACL/Knee (HS Soccer) to start (one all year, other ???)... add that to only having 7 skaters & a goalie with HS V experience... thank goodness for an amazing 12A team last year, but many young kids are headed straight for V as a result... If anyone remembers my Kennedy teams from a few years back, this one is younger (believe it or not) & also very talented...
I'm also real excited that we have 8 "inexperienced" players (less than a year of organized hockey) this year with JV. I don't think that some of the other HS winter sports coaches are happy with me, but the kids seem to fall in love with hockey when they get the chance to try it - so that's awesome! We also have been working on a "Girls Try Hockey" initiative and that is starting to show some new little girls at the youth level so that is awesome too.
Re: my team... I lost 2 returning players to ACL/Knee (HS Soccer) to start (one all year, other ???)... add that to only having 7 skaters & a goalie with HS V experience... thank goodness for an amazing 12A team last year, but many young kids are headed straight for V as a result... If anyone remembers my Kennedy teams from a few years back, this one is younger (believe it or not) & also very talented...
I'm also real excited that we have 8 "inexperienced" players (less than a year of organized hockey) this year with JV. I don't think that some of the other HS winter sports coaches are happy with me, but the kids seem to fall in love with hockey when they get the chance to try it - so that's awesome! We also have been working on a "Girls Try Hockey" initiative and that is starting to show some new little girls at the youth level so that is awesome too.
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defensedad
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EP
Kennedy vs EP (Kennedy)
The announcer made a mistake last night that was very comical but fitting.
After the 8th goal was scored by EP, they announced the scoring.
" Scoring for Kennedy number 29 Maria Stoa"
Many people laughed their guts out.
The announcer made a mistake last night that was very comical but fitting.
After the 8th goal was scored by EP, they announced the scoring.
" Scoring for Kennedy number 29 Maria Stoa"
Many people laughed their guts out.
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ghshockeyfan
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Re: EP
This was bound to happen I think - although Stoa wore #7 her 8th grade year and #77 for 9th & 10th grade I think at BK. Her brother wears #29 @ the U I believe too... Feste switched from #19 to #33 I think, and Ludwigson has always been #21...defensedad wrote:Kennedy vs EP (Kennedy)
The announcer made a mistake last night that was very comical but fitting.
After the 8th goal was scored by EP, they announced the scoring.
" Scoring for Kennedy number 29 Maria Stoa"
Many people laughed their guts out.
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hockeyrube
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- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:31 am
Just a thought...........
Why is Stoa still on the ice against her former team, now decimated by O/E, when the score is 8-0 ?????????????? Does that seem a little wrong to anyone else ??????? Why can't EP dress a 4th line for that game, and play the 3rd and 4th lines once the score gets out of hand, and sit the 1st and 2nd lines. Where is the sportsmanship ???????
Why is Stoa still on the ice against her former team, now decimated by O/E, when the score is 8-0 ?????????????? Does that seem a little wrong to anyone else ??????? Why can't EP dress a 4th line for that game, and play the 3rd and 4th lines once the score gets out of hand, and sit the 1st and 2nd lines. Where is the sportsmanship ???????
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hockeyrube7
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Rube #1, I too tend to find this very offensive, but I have to say, I have seen this with many HS teams, and seems to be a consitant theme. I've even seen teams up 10-0 in the 3rd, go on a PP, and use their #1 PP line. While I disagree with this abuse of a weaker team, I do try to understand the need some times, as these lines may not be working well at the time, and or just may need the work. We as fans don't usually know the circumstances that are happening on the bench or in locker room, let alone the coaches head.hockeyrube wrote:Just a thought...........
Why is Stoa still on the ice against her former team, now decimated by O/E, when the score is 8-0 ?????????????? Does that seem a little wrong to anyone else ??????? Why can't EP dress a 4th line for that game, and play the 3rd and 4th lines once the score gets out of hand, and sit the 1st and 2nd lines. Where is the sportsmanship ???????
hockeyrube7 wrote:Rube #1, I too tend to find this very offensive, but I have to say, I have seen this with many HS teams, and seems to be a consitant theme. I've even seen teams up 10-0 in the 3rd, go on a PP, and use their #1 PP line. While I disagree with this abuse of a weaker team, I do try to understand the need some times, as these lines may not be working well at the time, and or just may need the work. We as fans don't usually know the circumstances that are happening on the bench or in locker room, let alone the coaches head.hockeyrube wrote:Just a thought...........
Why is Stoa still on the ice against her former team, now decimated by O/E, when the score is 8-0 ?????????????? Does that seem a little wrong to anyone else ??????? Why can't EP dress a 4th line for that game, and play the 3rd and 4th lines once the score gets out of hand, and sit the 1st and 2nd lines. Where is the sportsmanship ???????
There are many factors that go into how a game like this is played. I have not seen Kennedy play this year, but my guess is they're rebuilding their program. Secondly, I tend to look at shots to see how the game may have gone. What I found...
Saves: B-Hunter 24-11-x-35, Teklu x-10-10-20; E-Elliott 1-1-4-6.
This shows me the shots for the first and second periods were 54-2, and the score was 9-0. This seems like it may have been pretty lopsided to begin with. The 3rd period showed shots were 12-4, more balanced than the first two periods.
I also look at the box score and find that no single player scored more than two goals, 8 different players had goals, and 1 player scored her first goal of the season (Hellier) in the first period. I might be wrong, but I didn't see her (Hellier) on their squad at the Kaposia. This may or may not mean she's on their 4th line which someone commented on earlier. Again, I wasn't at the game, (to be honest games like this are not worth my time) No offense to either team.
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hockey 1919
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EP
We are still talking about a coach that has his assistants go out and recruit. He runs it up against all the teams they play. Not one of there top players is homegrown. He is the so called president of the girls coaches association. Keep running it up, good for the sport