The Refs are ruining the game

[playfair]

Someone please explain to me what is going on with the refs this year? They are ruining the season and the game. They are inconsistent and just blantently making bad calls or not making them at all. What is going on?

[xk1]

You wouldn't be a Wayzata fan would you?

[playfair]

Actually I am or was a hockey fan until this season, why do you ask?

[hockeygod]

I know what you mean, a game should be called consistantly from begining to end no matter who's leading but it seems they call it tighter on whichever team is leading and make more calls tword the end of the games....it's turning into basketball at some games where the ref's are trying to decide the winner.

[playfair]

I agree with what you say. They are definitely trying to control the game but for the wrong reasons. The sad part is that they are taking all the fun out of the game for the players and the fans.

[xk1]

Given the controversy over the winning goal last night it helps the reader figure out where the question is going. If you are talking about too many or inconsistent calls it's a different discussion than the one that will happen if it's just about that one call or other that may have been like it.

I think all would agree that with more calls this year they are naturally going to be inconsisent. On the other hand I haven't seen any more goals getting waved off or counted incorrectly than any other season.

[gopher25]

The biggest problem I see with the girls game is that our refs have not been doing it long enough to understand the girls game. Which is different from the boys game. It drives me mad to see a ref call body contact everytime someone falls down! Could it be the person is not as strong on their skates as they should be? They don't undersand "rubbing out" and call interference!

Another problem I see is the interference that is being called all of the time. I know USA hockey wants to see it called tighter but refs in my opinion are trying to be a part of the game which is not their job. Their jobs are to officate the game and make sure they are facilitating an environment where everyone is safe. This year in particular I see them trying to even up calls more or they make a bone head call late in the game or in over times that wasn't called through out the game. It doesn't make any sense to me. The other huge problem I see is that there are way too many penalties which causes too much special teams play, in turn kids get about half of the ice time if you aren't on the PP or PK, not a good way to grow a sport!

[hockeygod]

What I see is the game getting less skilled because of all the calls, You don't see players stepping up as much to make the big plays because they fear any act of aggression will be called for interference, they should call the blatant stuff, don't let the games get out of hand, and unless there is a safety issue involved let the kids play the game...right now there stealing the aggression from girls hockey

[MNHockeyFan]

It drives me mad to see a ref call body contact everytime someone falls down! Could it be the person is not as strong on their skates as they should be? They don't undersand "rubbing out" and call interference!

This is the biggest problem of all in my opinion. Many refs are confusing body contact with body checks. Properly positioned, body contact and "playing the body" should be perfectly legal. I do not have a problem with the refs enforcing all the interference/hooking you see with the stick, as this slows the game down and girls hockey needs to be fast and skill-based to be exciting. Nor do I have a problem with the traditional interference away from the puck, when someone hits or impedes a player's progress when they are trying to get into position to receive a pass, etc. But the body contact thing when a player just falls down after totally inadvertant contact (or no contact at all sometimes) is crazy.

[playfair]

I agree will the last two post. What you said is so true. Thanks for postting it.

[xk1]

I agree about the special teams taking ice time away from the third line. I don't see teams becoming less aggressive. I have seen them become smarter about it which is what the rules are for.
The problem of weak players falling down when jostling for the puck with an older stronger player is not new, just more frequent because there are more calls.
IMHO it's not the quality or quantity but the consistency that's the issue, I have yet to see a game that was called the same way for two consecutive periods let alone games.

[Zamman]

some of the points here are warrented, but others are not. The reffing has to be consistant or it does not work. Last night at the Farmington/AHA girls game there were 25 penalties called in the game, one parent tossed and I believe 2 bench penalties. The game was actually a good game, but some of the penalties were real bad.
My suggestion for people on this board is if you feel the officiating is so bad, then go out and become a ref and take care of the issue. I, work at the rink so I will not ref. I have to deal with the people getting tossed from the building......

[xwildfan]

Have observed a couple of games where the refs let the players decide the outcome. Dan Lick (SSP/IGH) was one of the officials at both games. There was contact allowed and perhaps a couple of missed calls. But the games had a good flow. I would much rather have a couple of missed calls than a parade to the penalty box.

[Dickie Dunn]

Let's stir the pot...how about the female ref in last season's Class A Girl's Final.

[wisconsin23]

i agree. i've even seen refs call a penalty on a girl who stopped at the blue line to avoid being offsides, and the oppent ran into her and fell, no shoulders thrown, no sticks, just someone not looking and running into the player at the blue line... all about strength and stance. Also i have noticed where the third line or even the second rarely get to help in the PP or PK, alot of coaches have just the first line out for 2 to even 5 minutes at a time... alot of girls cant handle going hard for 4 and with up to 10 penalties per team in a game that can really hurt the teams and slow the game down alot.

[twowayplay]

Lou Nanne was on KFAN this evening talking about the issue with the Ref's calling the new rules. He said that it is USA Hockey administration pushing these rules on the Ref's and that many of the ref's do not like it. He indicated that USA Hockey wants to have their ref's to learn the rules so they will b trained for higher levels. Lou is expressed his frustration at the big increase in penalties. He said it hurts development because kids learn better playing 5 on 5 not 5 on 4 or 5 on 3.

[hockeyrube7]

Lou Nanne was on KFAN this evening talking about the issue with the Ref's calling the new rules. He said that it is USA Hockey administration pushing these rules on the Ref's and that many of the ref's do not like it. He indicated that USA Hockey wants to have their ref's to learn the rules so they will b trained for higher levels. Lou is expressed his frustration at the big increase in penalties. He said it hurts development because kids learn better playing 5 on 5 not 5 on 4 or 5 on 3.

That last part of that is very true. The first part is not, these are not "new" rules at all, they are just inforcing them to the original intent. If they would call them by the intent, there would be no problem. But the angling and body positioning is being mistaken for impedence. And this may lead in to another post, but 7th and 8th graders seem to fall down a ton when a bigger/stronger junior or senior "rubs them out", and gets the call, are they really ready for HS, or are we just making HS ready for them?

I have said this in past posts, but consistancy is the key. You can call a game good or bad, but if you call the same penalty in minute one, as in minute 51, all would be fine. This is not happening. And I agree with the previous post that said, the game is not called the same from one period to the next, let alone game to game.

[twowayplay]

You right these are not new. I did mean the new emphasis of enforcement. Part of my point is that an Administrtive body (USA Hockey) made a decision to "enforce" the rules but did not supply the proper resources (training or more clarification o application at each level) to implement them. On the other hand, if I watch the video USA sent out it is fairly clear about "intent to impead" and not incidental contact

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[SEhockeyDAD]

First and foremost, there are many more things that could ruin the game more than refs. "Ruining the game"? On the whole, not even close. Second, as twowayplay pointed out, USA Hockey is behind attempted changes, not the refs. Refs do the best they can while between one and a hundred people tell them how they're doing it wrong.

So lets change the name of the thread to "USA Hockey is doing something that has me ticked off." In regards to this, I have a couple thoughts.

I'm in favor of USA Hockey's intent. The game should be decided by the best hockey talent, not the biggest, best obstructors. The NHL has decided to let more offense into the game to make it more exciting to watch. As far as I'm concerned, that's a good way to go at every level, inlcuding HS girls hockey.

What seems to have most people upset are either inconsistancy or the great number of penalties per game. As for the latter, players need to learn how to avoid taking penalties under stricter enforcement and coaches need to instruct them in that. Seems to me that a team that learns how to stay out of the box will have an advantage. Complaining about how many penalties are called seldom gives you an advantage.

As for consistency from ref to ref, thats tougher. In the first place, I doubt that there's ever been a time when all referees called every game the same everywhere in the state. So actually, any edict to more strictly enforce certain rules has a chance to make refs more consistant than they were before. The problem is the enormity of the system. How can each ref be graded on how they're doing? Does a USA Hockey official watch every ref sometime during the season? A meeting with video of refs to show them what they called right and called wrong? No way that theres time and resources enough to do that. I'm sure that they'll do what they can; tutorials, off-season training and the like.

It'll get more accepted with time and eventually practically forgotten that "new enforcement" was a hassle. I'm optimistic that HS girls hockey will be better for it. It certainly won't be ruined.

[ghshockeyfan]

Plain and simple the period of acclimation and means necissary to accomplish the desired outcome have been more excessive that we anticipated. Let's give it a little more time, and if I of all people can say that, with a team that is in the box more often than not in a game, then that says a lot! Some one remind me of this post the next time I get on here and complain about being in the box all night!

[GoFigure]

I know the refs are constantly having to critique the coaches, the fans, the people in the boxes, and the players, but isn't there a place where coaches get to critique the refs. If this is done more often, would it not be a way to help MSHSL weed out the bad refs. We don't always want to blame them, however, there seems to be a real concern with their abilities with many teams. They need to be held accountable for their actions just like the coaches are. They (REFS) are so quick to hand out bench penalties, but when they are questioned they are appalled that anyone would question them. I think this is a serious issue that needs attention. Not sure by who, but someone.

[ghshockeyfan]

I know the refs are constantly having to critique the coaches, the fans, the people in the boxes, and the players, but isn't there a place where coaches get to critique the refs. If this is done more often, would it not be a way to help MSHSL weed out the bad refs. We don't always want to blame them, however, there seems to be a real concern with their abilities with many teams. They need to be held accountable for their actions just like the coaches are. They (REFS) are so quick to hand out bench penalties, but when they are questioned they are appalled that anyone would question them. I think this is a serious issue that needs attention. Not sure by who, but someone.

The coaches rate the officials through the MSHSL website and possibly through their officials assn. if they provide that capability either electronically or through a paper based "postcard" system (distributed to coaches at games by some officials assn's).

[theref]

To Go Figure:

It is never a coaches job to question an officials judgement. A coach may ask why the official called something one way or another, but the second the coach starts saying "I think" or "this is what I saw" you are starting to question someone else's judgement, which generally doesn't go over to well with any trained and experienced individual. The funny thing is at any hockey game, there are 95% of the fans yelling at referees on any given play, the other 5% are sitting there quietly knowing that either the ref was right or that they are just thankful they don't have to do the job.

[Cowboy1]

The refs will never satisfy everyone, I think it is a tough and thankless job! That being said, far to often in Girls Hockey the refs are from the home town, instead of from neutral towns from the surrounding areas, which puts even more pressure on them when calls are borderline.

[Purehockey]

I think half of the girls high school refs are very bad. They never let the game have any flow. They are always calling every little thing on both teams they need to let the girls play. This is not u10 or 12 there will be some contact.