An apology from an EP fan

Jethrotull · Post by **Jethrotull** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:17 am

The Gopher men’s hockey team brings pride to the "state of hockey" because of their homegrown success. Sadly, EP's girl’s hockey team cannot do the same for the local residents.

hockeyrube · Post by **hockeyrube** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:24 am

Sadly, I am not surprised at all. For the past 2-3 years, I have voiced my concerns over the negative ramifications regarding our current O/E situation. I assure you that the authors of the School Choice statute did not intend for it to be used for these purposes. EP may win another State Championship this year, but they will leave alot of wreckage behind them for many years to come. Their lack of fan base can also be attributed to the lack of connection between their HS and Youth programs - as noted at the State Tournament last year (where every school they played had 10X the fans that EP had)
Rube

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:38 am

If EP really feels they have been slighted by the addition of outside players they should have their school board pass a rule similar to the one in the Eagan ISD where transfers have to sit out unless they are residents. Stop whinning to the MSHSL and do something about it in your own community.

Just what unsportsmanlike acts went on?

hotdog · Post by **hotdog** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:51 am

hockeyrube wrote:Sadly, I am not surprised at all. For the past 2-3 years, I have voiced my concerns over the negative ramifications regarding our current O/E situation. I assure you that the authors of the School Choice statute did not intend for it to be used for these purposes. EP may win another State Championship this year, but they will leave alot of wreckage behind them for many years to come. Their lack of fan base can also be attributed to the lack of connection between their HS and Youth programs - as noted at the State Tournament last year (where every school they played had 10X the fans that EP had)
Rube

The educated observer would note... EP's low fan base is not because of OE/Transfers but the fact they win in every sport and it's really not a big deal to the student body when another team qualifies for any tourney. Being one of the largest schools in the state allows them to draw from a larger pool of players. Football, soccer, lacrosse, basketball, tennis, swimming, gymnastics, etc... are all top teams at their high school.

The 2 or 3 games I have attended for EP, there have been above average attendance. I haven't gone to games I knew were not going to be close (like Lakeville North).

IMO: The score was 9-0 last night. Goal by period were 6-2-1. There were a couple Top 10 teams that scored 13 or 14 the last couple nights. Maybe it could have been worse. I think using the "don't score more than 10 rule" works for many.

OE/Transfers: To me needs to be looked at and modified. The correlation I see with transfer going to both EP and Edina started when BSM was put into their section. To me it just levels the playing field. IMO: If these two teams didn't have OE student athletes it would probably be a slam dunk for BSM advancing to the State Tourney. I don't know the situation for either team too well, but I don't think there were OE students before the addition of a private school into section 6. I see the same happening with section 5 and those competing with AHA may have to look elsewhere to compete.

Bensonmum · Post by **Bensonmum** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:10 am

hotdog wrote:

The educated observer would note... EP's low fan base is not because of OE/Transfers but the fact they win in every sport and it's really not a big deal to the student body when another team qualifies for any tourney. Being one of the largest schools in the state allows them to draw from a larger pool of players. Football, soccer, lacrosse, basketball, tennis, swimming, gymnastics, etc... are all top teams at their high school.

This is a very good point. The EP campus rivals a small college, and believe me, it is by design. When the current (and former) administration of the disrict designed the High School, it was with an eye to the future for unlimited expansion. The EP district acted exactly opposite of most huge growing districts, the best example being Lakeville (see also Eagan, Anoka, and eventually Woodbury). Lakeville built a second High School, making not only smaller, more manageable campuses for the kids, but also allowing twice as many kids in the district to participate in extra-curriculars, sports included. Without protest they gave up their domination in sports in order to make a better life for more kids overall. EP? No way. There's no way the administration of the EP district will ever build another high school because they have to continually feed their (the adults') huge egos with more state championships. If that means only a tiny percentage of EP native students get to participate, so be it. To hell with the kids, it's all about the adults. And to be clear, I'm not in favor of restricting OE whatsoever. It's just a shame that OE gets abused by 'school' like EP.

[/quote]

BCGHockey · Post by **BCGHockey** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:25 am

Jetrotull you crack me up, claiming to be an EP Fan. If that is the case why do a number of your posts from the past reference Lakeville and Lakeville Hockey. If you do not like what happened last night have the guts to standup and admit you are from Lakeville and explain why you feel the way you do. As far as fan turn out, why would someone come to watch a game that they are sure will be a blowout. Even Pro teams have a difficult time selling tickets to games that the fan base know will not be that exciting.

hotdog · Post by **hotdog** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:29 am

Bensonmum wrote:hotdog wrote:
The educated observer would note... EP's low fan base is not because of OE/Transfers but the fact they win in every sport and it's really not a big deal to the student body when another team qualifies for any tourney. Being one of the largest schools in the state allows them to draw from a larger pool of players. Football, soccer, lacrosse, basketball, tennis, swimming, gymnastics, etc... are all top teams at their high school.
This is a very good point. The EP campus rivals a small college, and believe me, it is by design. When the current (and former) administration of the disrict designed the High School, it was with an eye to the future for unlimited expansion. The EP district acted exactly opposite of most huge growing districts, the best example being Lakeville (see also Eagan, Anoka, and eventually Woodbury). Lakeville built a second High School, making not only smaller, more manageable campuses for the kids, but also allowing twice as many kids in the district to participate in extra-curriculars, sports included. Without protest they gave up their domination in sports in order to make a better life for more kids overall. EP? No way. There's no way the administration of the EP district will ever build another high school because they have to continually feed their (the adults') huge egos with more state championships. If that means only a tiny percentage of EP native students get to participate, so be it. To hell with the kids, it's all about the adults. And to be clear, I'm not in favor of restricting OE whatsoever. It's just a shame that OE gets abused by 'school' like EP.

[/quote]

On the flip side.... Lakeville is in huge trouble for next year with a 10% budget shortfall and there will be cutting in every aspect of the word! EP has large schools and smaller expenses because of it. I'm not sure if it was to build large programs and win state championships, but I could be wrong. Lakeville opening a new high school isn't the sole reason for their budget shortfall, but has anyone been to the new high school? It's very nice!

My business side says... EP Administration has saved tax payers a lot of money. I'm not an advocate of living in the Burbs; I prefer the confines of my small lot in the inner city. A larger school save money on overhead, but gives less opportunity for sports. We live in a Jesse Ventura world that wants their cake and whatever else they can get for free. Just a thought...

On another note: Thursday: Roseville vs. Edina.... I will make this game!

Jethrotull · Post by **Jethrotull** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:52 am

Reply

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:55 am

You never mentioned what you considered unsportsmanlike so how could one comment on it!

BCGHockey · Post by **BCGHockey** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:07 am

The Star Trib. shows the scoring to be 6-2-1 per period. It appears from that, that EP throttled back. If unsportsmanship is playing the game extremely agressive, going hard after pucks, backchecking, and forechecking, then EP may be guilty of unsportmanship. Then other teams like Roseville, Edina, BSM, Stillwater, and AHA must also be guilty. Is this just a freak of rankings how all the teams that play a similiar style are ranked so high?

offsides · Post by **offsides** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:14 am

Jethrotull,

Please, please provide some examples of the poor sportsmanship. This was about as noncontroversial a game as you could see. The injury occurred when an edge was lost, bodies tangled and two kids went into the boards. No penalty was called.

Jethrotull, your apology is curious because nothing occurred within the framework of last night's game that needs apologizing for. If you don't like OE, fine, but make a reasonable, intelligent distinction bewteen that and what occurred in the game.

Jethrotull · Post by **Jethrotull** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:46 am

reply

offsides · Post by **offsides** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:39 pm

Tull,

I'd be surprised if the LV coaches saw the game as you did. I was stationed in the LV penalty box which is adjacent to their bench and heard most of what they said. The only time I heard them question anything was the injury play. My guess is that they, too, understand that there was no intent on the play.

As far as the rest of the stuff you mention, I don't know. I saw lots of penalties called, just as the refs said before the game they were going to do. Yes, EP had more, but LV had their share including checking and high sticking. Ep is 50 times more aggresive than LV. In a closely called game, the aggressor will get called for more.

Hockey's a rough game. Cuts and bruises are part of being a hockey player. I have seen many, many rougher and cheaper girls hockey games than the one last night. My guess is that you'd get little agreement from impartial observers.

BCGHockey · Post by **BCGHockey** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:39 pm

Jetrotull,

Why would any player make deliberate knee contact, isn't there as much of a chance of hurting themselves as there is the other player. In regards to the checking form behind at fullspeed why was there not a call made as such (are you impling that your fellow refs are incompetant)? From the sounds of other posts when the player got hurt are you impling again the refs got the call incorrect, no penalty was called. Maybe both players were out of control ?

I have had 2 kids play hockey and have made trips to the hospital with both. Broken bones, concussions, and miinor other injuries and never blamed other players or teams. Things do happen on the ice, it is a contact sport even when girls are playing and not all contact is on purpose. Ice and the boards are hard.

Jethrotull · Post by **Jethrotull** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:07 pm

reply

BCGHockey · Post by **BCGHockey** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:39 pm

It took 4 positng by tull but, it finally came out. O/E were involved in or the cause of these issues/penalties.

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:49 pm

No thread is complete until it involves OE and or privates...

gopher9 · Post by **gopher9** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:57 pm

Hey Jethro

I find it hard to believe that you live in E.P. and know so much about Lakeville?? (16 other posts?) The disrespectfull comments you are making about the E.P.girls hockey team is exaggerated beyond belief and uncalled for!! I dont know what game you were watching last night but none of this is true! They are a hard working team and deserve some respect!! Regaurdless of O.E. When you come off of that QUAYLUDE you took last night and make some sense they deserve an apology!

hockeywild7 · Post by **hockeywild7** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:58 pm

I can only attest to the EP game against Stillwater at the Kaposia tournament as this is the only game I have seen EP play. I didnt see any cheap plays or anything else that might be considered unsportsmanlike from EP or Stillwater for that matter. As a Stillwater fan I would also say that EP had a pretty decent fan turnout as well. I heard comments from some of the stillwater players that the some of the EP fans and parents gave them very nice compliments after the game. Sometimes teams take on a roll as the villian because they are having alot of success such as Edina boys teams years past and everyone wants to see them lose. As for the transfer situation you cant blame the kids, coaches or school for something that is number 1 legal, and number 2 sometimes beyond their control as to who chooses to transfer where and why.

Jethrotull · Post by **Jethrotull** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:10 pm

Well said XK.

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:22 pm

Thanks, perhaps I will change my moniker to XK666.

pondhockey · Post by **pondhockey** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:30 pm

BCGHockey wrote:If unsportsmanship is playing the game extremely agressive, going hard after pucks, backchecking, and forechecking, then EP may be guilty of unsportmanship. Then other teams like Roseville, Edina, BSM, Stillwater, and AHA must also be guilty. Is this just a freak of rankings how all the teams that play a similiar style are ranked so high?

I wasn't at the game, so this is just my thought on the subject in general:

Is this what we want to teach our children that it's ok to not play by the rules if the end result is to win (be ranked high)? It also reminds me of what my Mother used to say "If Johnny jumped off a cliff, would you do that too?" Meaning just because other teams do it, does that make it right?
Also, to respond to hockey being a rough game and injuries occur, specifically BGC having to take his/her kids to the hospital (which I'm sorry that happened to your family) - of course accidents will happen, but when a player disregards the rules that enforce safety it can escalade into more players in the same game disregarding the rules, which leads to the injuries that may require trips to the hospital.

Just my observances having "lived" at the rink for the last 15 years with all my players.

offsides · Post by **offsides** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:36 pm

Tull,

Your last post just desroyed what little credibility you had left.

Hockeywild7, Ep vs. SW was what hockey is all about. Tough, fast paced, hard-nosed and agressive. As you say, EP is already the villian, that's ok. But, as "rube" proved in the second post on this thread, the bashers never let the truth get in the way when looking for an opportunity.

Jethrotull · Post by **Jethrotull** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:01 pm

See ya kids

Zamman · Post by **Zamman** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:10 pm

Not to sure about the comment on the fan base.... I work at an arena with four varsity programs. Two girls and two boys, a public and a private. From what I see there is little in the way of fan support. Mostly parents and a few students. Fact is that in todays world, we have too busy of lives to go to all events the school offers. Both schools are small, and on any given night may have hockey, basketball, wrestling, dance, gymnastics, swimming, skiing, debate, band or any other school function. AHA also has the distance factor to deal with, they always have. On top of that kids have homework and jobs. When the playoffs start the kids come out. I wish we had more fans from both schools, it makes the game a lot more fun.
A few years ago, Richfield student section would be nearly packed and they were loud and obnoxious, the way student sections should be. Now they show up and sit on their hands.

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com