MSHSL RULE change...what is it REALLY for?

[BringRollieBack!!]

Soo I was on a jobsite today and I got in the middle of a friendly debate over the recent MSHSL transfer policies and the States involvement etc..

In this discussion I heard and shared points of view on both sides of the issue (the people involved ranged from Carpenters, plumbers etc..to engineers and architects...a good spectrum)

My knee-jerk reaction has always been "good for the MSHSL..keep the kids playing in their home town", but this reaction has always been because A.) I am old fashioned and not directly involved. and B.)I get tired of hearing people justify their childs transfer because of religion or educational quality. It's obvious that when people transfer their children that they do so for multiple reasons and if sports is one of them, then they should not be ashamed to say so.

Back to topic: One of the guys made an argument that made me re-think my opinion.

In a nut-shell:
What if your child grows up playing association hockey in a middle of the road suburban program with average or better coaching and then finds himself in a highschool system that has coaching that is not what they have been used to growing up. For example a coach who does not spend the time to teach or correct mistakes or bother to interact personally with his players. Does mom or dad simply tell this kid to suck it up and live with it...and hope that their childs passion for their sport is enough to get them through...Or under the new rules do they pick up and move and possibly disrupt other siblings lives and friendships as well as the families financial conditions.

Or should they be able to as a family have the ability to seek out the best solution for their individual needs...possibly leading to an open enrollment at a different school either in their area or maybe in grandpa & grandmas area etc.. Or if the family budget allows...elect for a private school option.

The state sets guidelines and standards for education. They don't for extracurricular athletic and non athletic endeavors. This falls on the AD. If your AD is not fully versed in all athletics then maybe you have a brilliant and compassionate baseball coach and an indifferent or un involved Volleyball coach. ETC...

Remember under the old rules you can't simply decide to jump to a new school at the drop of a hat. It's still up to the new district to approve your transfer and there is rules as to eligibility if you "Jump" multiple times

I understand and appreciate the frustration in the "recruiting" stories that have fueled the debate that led to this rule change.
But this rule WILL NOT change anything in regards to making it "fair for everyone"

I have a young daughter who is really into Gymnastics. I don't know a hoot about gymnastics...but by the time she is in high school I will know a lot more...do I have to study up now and interview the high school coach so that by the time she is in ninth grade I will know if she can continue her love of gymnastics...(by then her love will probably be Billy, or Bobby etc)..
But if it is still gymnastics and if there is a poor coach or maybe no program at all...shouldn't I be able to seek out any options and make what decision is best for my family??

Do we really need more legislation to stop the cheaters? wouldn't more thorough investigation and enforcement of the current rules be a better approach?

JUST ONE DADS 2 CENTS...OPEN TO OTHER THOUGHTS

[Pucknutz69]

Some people chose to leave simply because of the "distractions" at the local school. Some chose the private route. I know that is the reason 4-5 of the A Bantams from this years team are looking at private school for that reason alone. Not to mention the current HS coaches aren't doing a very good job, talking with current players they are glad to be done. Do you think it's right that a parent has to force thier senior hockey player to attend the last practices? The kids hated it so much they wanted to quit. So all the younger players talk with these guys and hear how bad it is. Why would they want to stick around? They want to play not look forward to quitting or hating it.

The new rule is being pushed by coaches that are losing and blaming the kids that are leaving. If the coach has nothing to do with the youth program what is he losing? By be involved I don't mean running the youth program but show some interest for god sakes. Not just run a crappy summer program to make some extra money.

[Slapshot*67]

I agree with both Pucknutz and BBRollie, There is deffinately a reason why families gravitate towards one school or another. I personally send both my children to private school. They have attened since kindergarden. Reasoning behind are decision was personal thats all. In all Honesty we have discussed transfering our son away from his school to another. We have decided academics are first then his friends then sports. 2 to 1 sports lost.
Back to the subject. In my opinion they should open up the flood gates and let anyone and everyone go wherever and whenever they want. It would all even out , there are only so many spots on a team. There's only so much room in a school.
Pucknutz is right. Ask why! Why are they leaving. Why do they feel a need to go. There is a reason. Once again the few have made a decision for the masses. Some one got slited so everyone suffers. Typical.

[BIAFP]

Without this rule the chances of ever having a Cinderella story like this years Roseau AA championship would vanish forever. The conglomerations of metro all-star teams would dominate the state of hockey and the overall quality of play would diminish greatly. This is High School sports we are talking about not the NHL. These win at all cost pantywaist spoiled rich kids need to learn to be part of a "true team" and quit abandoning their communities for their own self gain. There is no "I" in team

[Slapshot*67]

BIAFP, Do you believe what you posted, You should think hard about what you stated. This year would be proff that you are full of it. Roseau is no Cinderella. They have and always will have a fantastic team. By the way one of there stars was a transfer.

[Pioneerprideguy]

Last time I checked, there was no "We" in team either. With every rule, there will be exceptions and there will also be ways around it. Some people have made this issue a private vs public issue. Not so. Most people on here are looking primarily with regards to hockey. What they may not realize is people leave public schools for other public schools and play other sports. If I have a child that is a varsity athlete at a public school and we are not satisfied with the academic/environment/school policies situation at our school, why should we be forced to stay. And, why should we be penalized by switching schools? Would people really care if we transferred to a school with a lesser athletic program?.. I doubt it.

[Jethrotull]

You can still transfer for any reason you wish. Only a small portion of OE's are athletes so most are not affected in any way. If you play sports, you will be assigned to the JV team for one year. If you are a Freshman or Sophomore you probably would have been on JV anyways. If you are are Junior or Senior then this new ruling will be a deterrent. Remember that a High School is an educational institution. High school sports are considered extracurricular activities and are conducted after regular school hours. The State of Minnesota does not run or regulate sporting activities. It is run by the MHSL. The MHSL is a private non-profit and I would say they have done a great job. The only ones whining are the ones the have been effected by this rule change and they are less then .5% of the total student population in Minnesota but some how have been elevated to 100% of the time spent at MHSL meetings latley. Lets just sit back and see how it works for the next few years.

[Pioneerprideguy]

The ripple effect in hockey won't be what everyone is hoping for. People are all excited about the better players remaining in their "community" and playing for their hometown high school. If a player is unhappy or is looking for a better/different situation at a different school, they will still leave. The MSHSL will now force more kids to leave high school and opt to play Jrs. Fans of high school hockey will lose because we will be deprived of watching these kids play.

[wbmd]

The MSHSL will now force more kids to leave high school and opt to play Jrs.

However, most of these kids aren't good enough for juniors.

[Pioneerprideguy]

If they are not that good, then why are so many people upset that they are leaving their schools?

[wbmd]

If they are not that good, then why are so many people upset that they are leaving their schools?

Many leave to try and get more exposure and for the better chance of making the State Tournament.

[TIME&SPACE]

As Yogi Berra said, "If they don't want to come, you can't stop them".

[bubulater]

Without this rule the chances of ever having a Cinderella story like this years Roseau AA championship would vanish forever. The conglomerations of metro all-star teams would dominate the state of hockey and the overall quality of play would diminish greatly. This is High School sports we are talking about not the NHL. These win at all cost pantywaist spoiled rich kids need to learn to be part of a "true team" and quit abandoning their communities for their own self gain. There is no "I" in team

Right on with the last 2 sentences, I love it.

Although I disagree about Roseau, or Warroad for that matter being Cinderella teams, I think this new rule will effect them more than most.

[Ankles Pierre, Jr.]

Great Question!

What is the anti-transfer crowd for?

Ready-Made Excuses: Remember Woog, coming out of the public school mindset, declaring he would lose year after year, because he had the ready-made "at least I did it with only kids from my community" excuse? In Lucia, we have a NCAA champion coach who wants only the best players in the nation, and somehow the Minnesota kids have risen to the challenge!

Anti-Catholic Bigotry: Though it has been established that this rule will only further hurt public schools, the bigots are always willing to shoot themselves in the foot if it might hurt even just one Catholic school kid.

Segregation: Since rich hockey kids can more easily move, go to private school, or leave for Juniors, the only kids stuck in their inferior "community" schools or programs will be the lesser advantaged or poor.

Hypocrisy: Remember the Roseau coach, blathering about sticking with one community, while he himself is a transplant from Canada and has used transfers in the Roseau hockey program?



(That's right, Ankles Pierre called the anti-transfer crowd R. A. S. H.)

[BIAFP]

Right you are AP. Let's put the 60 best hockey players in the State on three private school teams in the mighty twin cities, deplete the entire talent pool of Minnesota and ruin the great State of Hockey forever. What a grand idea

[Pioneerprideguy]

BIAFP,

You make it easier for every parent who allows their child to attend a private school, to write that check out for a better education. You make a perfect poster child for public school education. Please, by all means, keep up the good work!! Brilliant.

[BIAFP]

You make it easier for every parent who allows their child to attend a private school, to write that check out for a better education. You make a perfect poster child for public school education. Please, by all means, keep up the good work!! Brilliant.

Stay on it

[HShockeywatcher]

I think it's great how this thread went from good to bad to worse.

Schools are an educational institution, and part of a child's education lies in their interaction with peers, time management and much more, which includes their physical growth and education. By having sports in our schools we are saying athletics are a part of education. Whether people like it or not.

Sure, maybe only a small portion of people will truly be affected by this, but this rule has always been a rule of the exceptions, not for the general public mostly. But as BringRollieBack pointed out, lots of the time the transfers aren't the child's choice, they are partly or purely the parents' choice, for whatever reasons they think are best for their kids.

I'm just curious how this affects kids on the timed endurance sports (swimming, CC, Nordic, track). If you're a 400m runner in track and you run a 50s 400 are you supposed to be able to be on the team but even when you're winning all the races never have your points count? Seems really silly, making families make decisions to choose between sports, academics and other social aspects of school.

[Ram Hockey]

BIAFP, Do you believe what you posted, You should think hard about what you stated. This year would be proff that you are full of it. Roseau is no Cinderella. They have and always will have a fantastic team. By the way one of there stars was a transfer.

Roseau didn't have any transfers.

[packerboy]

Right you are AP. Let's put the 60 best hockey players in the State on three private school teams in the mighty twin cities, deplete the entire talent pool of Minnesota and ruin the great State of Hockey forever. What a grand idea

Id go with 4 teams.

[BIAFP]

Right you are AP. Let's put the 60 best hockey players in the State on three private school teams in the mighty twin cities, deplete the entire talent pool of Minnesota and ruin the great State of Hockey forever. What a grand idea

Id go with 4 teams.

Great, AHA, CDH, HM and BSM. The death of the greatest High School sporting event in the country so these four schools can hold and annual draft like the USHL, have tryout camps every August for the 1300+ high school hockey players in the state. They can call it the "Elitism League" where only the richest may apply. The kids that make the final cut can open enroll in September and they can have an incredible four team league and State Tournament. The rest of the 1300 remaining players can play at the "2nd fiddle" level with an outdoor tourney in Ely every March. What a great idea this open transfer idea of Packerboy, AP and elitist PioneerPrideGuy have come up with truly is Forget about education as it is obviously about conglomeration of All-Stars at all costs

[PPREZ]

High Schoolers don't need to go to JR's. Get ready for Tier 1 AAA Midget hockey in Minnesota.

[elliott70]

The big suburban schools will always do well - they have the resources.

The private schools will do well because they can bring in quality kids based on giving them more and they have alumni that want them there.
(Their children, grandchildren, etc.)

The out-state schools with long standing tradition will do well as they get the support of the community.

New programs will do well given time and the proper resources.

And it will all cycle around as demographics change and those rare individuals come through a system together.

Recruit - sure, some do it; but it does not alwqys get the results one would think. It is, as all here believe, a TEAM sport. The best teams win.

The MSHSL can do what they think best to stop a problem (perceived or otherwise), but they cannot control the heart, work-ethic, quality coaching to make or break a state championship.

Some on here are worried about their children, or their program, or the sport in general, or the state tournament. And that is fine.

But bottom line is we (those that care for the game and for children) need to make sure we do what is right by the game and the kids playing it.

This rule will be ike all other rules, changed or erased after it is perceived to be no longer needed. The game will continue, if we give it what it needs - kids on skates with a stick on the ice - somewhere - public, private, indoors or out.

That is where the effort should be.

[hockeyadvocate]

Roseau did not have any transfers but they did have a foreign exchange student, coaches kid who could have stayed in the program where he started out, and where his mom works, and a boy who moved from Roseville with his family in 8th grade. All perfectly legal and nothing wrong with any of it, but there was a little help from the outside just like almost any team in state.

[packerboy]

BIAFP wrote "Forget about education as it is obviously about conglomeration of All-Stars at all costs "

Dont be ridiculous. We would put a budget on it. We all may be rich, but we didnt get there by being fiscally irresponsible.