Did anyone experience this in Districts?, Regions?, State??
What is your opinion of this for A Teams? B Teams?
Squirts/Peewee's/Bantams or Girls .. Please share your opinion ...
Cold Dry Hands ... aka, the shortened bench
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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Hockeyguy_27
- Posts: 745
- Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm
Re: Cold Dry Hands ... aka, the shortened bench
Sometimes you have to do what you have to do as a coach. When a game is on the line you have to go with the players you feel can get the job done. It would be nice to never have to do this but the reality is if you roll three or four lines as a coach, don't pay attention to what your opponent is putting out on ice, you can be doing your team a great disservice. Sorry if that sounds harsh.taxi43 wrote:Did anyone experience this in Districts?, Regions?, State??
What is your opinion of this for A Teams? B Teams?
Squirts/Peewee's/Bantams or Girls .. Please share your opinion ...
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HockeyRocks1
- Posts: 142
- Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:46 pm
- Location: Not anywhere near Ram Country Unfortunately
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gopherhockey33
- Posts: 1029
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selloutcrowd99
- Posts: 329
- Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:26 pm
I agree. Maybe as a squirt, you shouldn't shorten the bench as much, but as you grow older, shortening the bench becomes a way of the game. Kids want to win, and playing the worse players can jeopardize a teams win. Not only that, but many teams have there whole community riding on their back, and these coaches can't take chances to lose. To a certain extent, it is ok to shorten the bench, especially in the significant games.gopherhockey33 wrote:if you coach a bantam A state tourney final game, follow up on those words. ill almost guaruntee you wont be able to.
Shortening the bench also gives the player who is being sat a bigger incentive to become better and improve his play.
You need to realize that as your little son becomes older, he will have to be facing more and more adversities like these in the future.
The truth hurts
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HockeyRocks1
- Posts: 142
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- Location: Not anywhere near Ram Country Unfortunately
WOW, It's youth hockey fella's. At Bantam-a,b1, or Pw-a there is nothing wrong with shortening the bench in the last five minutes of a playoff or tourney game and trying to get the come back goal, protect lead or winning goal. But if it's common to shorten the bench in all game's and situations then you've probably drafted the wrong team, have the players in the wrong positions or haven't developed them properly. Things need to be kept in perspective in all sports at the youth levels. If your self worth or community is depending on the outcome of 12 to 14 year old's playing hockey you need to wake up, get a life and move to a more stable community.
Ozone is right.
You need to know at the beginning of the year where you are putting the emphasis on winning.
Invitational tournaments, district (league) season, district/region play-offs, cross-town rivalry games; which one(s) are the big games?
And this decision needs to be made by the coaches, the players and to some extent the association expectations.
Shortening the bench, going with a few on the power play/penalty kill in an early season scrimmage game is wrong.
Pick the game(s), let the players know it and go for the win. But it is easier to win with 3 good lines and 6 D and 2 goalies then it is with one or two studs.
And I think that is about what everyone is saying.
You need to know at the beginning of the year where you are putting the emphasis on winning.
Invitational tournaments, district (league) season, district/region play-offs, cross-town rivalry games; which one(s) are the big games?
And this decision needs to be made by the coaches, the players and to some extent the association expectations.
Shortening the bench, going with a few on the power play/penalty kill in an early season scrimmage game is wrong.
Pick the game(s), let the players know it and go for the win. But it is easier to win with 3 good lines and 6 D and 2 goalies then it is with one or two studs.
And I think that is about what everyone is saying.
it was painful to watch some of the District and Regional Games this year.
I saw Peewee and Bantam level games with teams from various parts of the state, rolling with 2 lines and a benched goalie.
this is 5 to 6 kids per team ... at 13 & 14yrs old riding the pine in Regional Games. Games they may never get to again in their lives.
I also saw the teams that rolled 2 lines defeat teams that played all of their players. It was dissapointing to see the "teams" be eliminated from competition.
Some of the teams that rolled 2 lines had players with Aunts, Uncles and Grandparents in attendance wondering why their nephew/grandson is parked on the bench. My nephew was one of them ...
... I am unsure if I would have been happy or sad for him to make it to State ... it would have been even more pine time for him.
I understand the desire to win. I understand that associations want to hang banners from their rafters. But I am not sure the kids understand this notion.
It would be nice if all rosters were set at 2 lines + 1 goalie ... with any additional players on the taxi squad ... at least then the coaches, players, parents and associations would know the expectations right from the start rather than having the rug pulled out from under the innocent players that thought that they had made the "TEAM" ...
I saw Peewee and Bantam level games with teams from various parts of the state, rolling with 2 lines and a benched goalie.
this is 5 to 6 kids per team ... at 13 & 14yrs old riding the pine in Regional Games. Games they may never get to again in their lives.
I also saw the teams that rolled 2 lines defeat teams that played all of their players. It was dissapointing to see the "teams" be eliminated from competition.
Some of the teams that rolled 2 lines had players with Aunts, Uncles and Grandparents in attendance wondering why their nephew/grandson is parked on the bench. My nephew was one of them ...
... I am unsure if I would have been happy or sad for him to make it to State ... it would have been even more pine time for him.I understand the desire to win. I understand that associations want to hang banners from their rafters. But I am not sure the kids understand this notion.
It would be nice if all rosters were set at 2 lines + 1 goalie ... with any additional players on the taxi squad ... at least then the coaches, players, parents and associations would know the expectations right from the start rather than having the rug pulled out from under the innocent players that thought that they had made the "TEAM" ...
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HockeyRocks1
- Posts: 142
- Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:46 pm
- Location: Not anywhere near Ram Country Unfortunately
taxi43
One of our B coaches pulled that stuff at districts. Skated basically two lines and played the same goalie four games in a row.
elliott70 excactly. Pick your games and coach your teams correctly and everyone enjoys the game.
This year both of my son's played for coaches that rolled line after line. It might have cost us four games between the two team. They did use specific players in situations but stuck to the team theme..... One team made it to state, the other finished very well. ALL the kids were happy and the parents were even happier.
One of our B coaches pulled that stuff at districts. Skated basically two lines and played the same goalie four games in a row.
elliott70 excactly. Pick your games and coach your teams correctly and everyone enjoys the game.
This year both of my son's played for coaches that rolled line after line. It might have cost us four games between the two team. They did use specific players in situations but stuck to the team theme..... One team made it to state, the other finished very well. ALL the kids were happy and the parents were even happier.
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greybeard58
- Posts: 2567
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:40 pm
The old saying that a chain is only as strong as the weakest link rings very true. If a coach continues to shorten the bench during the year, shows that he might not be teaching his team the skills needed. There have been coaches who did not spend a lot of time with the weaker skaters with the excuse that if they had more ambition they would work harder and then their playing time would increase. Over the years I have both witnessed and heard first hand of a few interesting cases.
In one case a coach wanted to win so bad he shortened the bench in the first period. When the team had penalty problems in the third the coach turned to one of the benched players and told him to get in there, the player responded that you didn't need me earlier and you don't need me now and left the ice. The language was cleaned up.
The second was a team the through regions and state the 3rd line barely was on the ice no matter what the score and in a couple on games it wasn't close.They ones who played finally got tired and didn't win the last game.
One association many years ago had in their handbook had a statement about this. I hope I am close.
When you coach a team you win with all your players and you loose with all. When it comes the time and you choose to sit a player you as a coach just told the player that you have no confidence in him, you told his teammates you have no confidence in him and finally the player will have no confidence in himself.
The other statement came from a son to his father was"Why didn't I play more daddy". This came from a C squirt player and the coach wanted to win so bad the line was out once in each period for a short shift.
Three of the players that got all of the ice time one quit before Highschool the other 2 had bad grades and never played. The next year there was a different coach who taught. The 3rd line that rarely saw ice time, by the time they graduated 2 were all conference and the other honorable mention.
In one case a coach wanted to win so bad he shortened the bench in the first period. When the team had penalty problems in the third the coach turned to one of the benched players and told him to get in there, the player responded that you didn't need me earlier and you don't need me now and left the ice. The language was cleaned up.
The second was a team the through regions and state the 3rd line barely was on the ice no matter what the score and in a couple on games it wasn't close.They ones who played finally got tired and didn't win the last game.
One association many years ago had in their handbook had a statement about this. I hope I am close.
When you coach a team you win with all your players and you loose with all. When it comes the time and you choose to sit a player you as a coach just told the player that you have no confidence in him, you told his teammates you have no confidence in him and finally the player will have no confidence in himself.
The other statement came from a son to his father was"Why didn't I play more daddy". This came from a C squirt player and the coach wanted to win so bad the line was out once in each period for a short shift.
Three of the players that got all of the ice time one quit before Highschool the other 2 had bad grades and never played. The next year there was a different coach who taught. The 3rd line that rarely saw ice time, by the time they graduated 2 were all conference and the other honorable mention.
It is a pretty tough call. From the outside it is easy to say, play everyone evenly, you never know who will be a star. Does sitting Jimmy down for the third period break his confidence... of course. Does it possibly get him to a state tourney banquet, with guest speakers and cake for dessert... maybe. Its a tough, tough call... especially in a competitive association. There are games worth winning (tourney championships, region, state) and there are games where winning is far from important (up by 5, scrimmage, other non-league game, league game). I like to see that third line playing a lot in the latter. I like to see them learning things in practice too. That is where the majority of the game is really learned. The choice is simple at the beginning of the year, if you are suprised you made a team, be suprised to be on the rink a bunch in season extending games. But I bet being a third line "A" player, is still a better learning and hockey experience than being the B1 stud.... ask any B1 stud.
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regdunlop77
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:35 pm
shortbenched in Canada
Ex-Leaf Domi trashes coach
Outburst sparked by son's ice time: Witnesses
By ALAN CAIRNS and JOE WARMINGTON, Sun Media
Witnesses say former Leaf tough guy Tie Domi launched a verbal tirade against his son's hockey coach during a peewee game at a North York arena last night. (File photo)
Former Leafs' tough guy Tie Domi was "like a beast" as he screamed obscenities at his 11-year-old son Max's peewee hockey coach at a North York arena last night.
Witnesses say Domi's profane tirade happened in front of a dozen stunned and scared young players, parents and fans.
One onlooker called Toronto Police to the arena at 8:05 p.m., saying Domi was involved in "a fight."
At about that same time, several witnesses say, Domi blasted Toronto Marlboro's peewee AAA coach Lucas Miller after the team lost 2-0 to the Toronto Red Wings in a playoff game.
"He was like a beast or a caged animal," said a parent who was in the rink. "I mean, this is kid's hockey."
The Sun received many calls from irate parents but also some from those who side with Domi.
Threats made
A call on the Toronto Police radio told responding cops that threats were made against a minor league coach and he was afraid to go into the dressing room.
Lucas Miller's wife, Jolaine, told the Sun last night she is "now concerned for the future and (her husband's) safety."
She said, "Our main concern is to get him (Domi) out of the rink."
She said parents are worried about Domi showing up at a team practice today or at another game between the two teams Sunday.
She described her husband as shaken but okay. But several parents said the whole thing was an overreaction.
"I was there and I think it's only news because it's Mr. Domi," said Mike Soucier, whose son Mikey plays on the team. "Tie is very passionate. He just said to the coach, 'You are not coaching to win'."
He said the coach was just as "excited."
He said it was Miller's wife who called the police, who in turn "ripped up the report."
"There is no story here," adds Dan Fotinos, whose son Alex is on the same squad.
Jolaine Miller said she was surprised Domi was so agitated since her husband "gave Max a break tonight."
It seems the younger Domi had forgotten his hockey gloves but was not benched -- which is the normal practice.
Toronto Police confirmed last night that officers were called to the arena, but there were no arrests, no charges laid and that nobody laid any complaint against the former hockey pugilist.
Several witnesses say that while Domi swore repeatedly during an angry tirade, there was not any physical contact between the two, nor did Domi make any threats.
Witnesses say Domi came down from the stands and accosted Miller outside the team's ice-level dressing room at the end of the game.
An enraged Domi was apparently upset at Max's lack of ice time.
"He was just going nuts ... about his son should have got more ice time," said one witness, who did not give her name on the advice of her father.
'Sewer mouth'
"He had a sewer mouth. It was ridiculous," she said.
The witness said the coach (Miller) told Domi in a normal voice that he was "off base" and "way out of line".
"It was unbelievable," she said, adding that she expected more from a an ex-NHLer and supposed role model.
Another witness to the incident, who also refused to give his name, said he saw Domi shaking his finger at Miller and yelling out "every other kid on the f------ team got more ice time than his son."
Domi turned to walk away, but then whisked around and rifled more profanities at Miller.
"You're a f------ s----- coach. What the f--- do you think you're doing ... You're just playing two f------ lines," the witness said.
Outburst sparked by son's ice time: Witnesses
By ALAN CAIRNS and JOE WARMINGTON, Sun Media
Witnesses say former Leaf tough guy Tie Domi launched a verbal tirade against his son's hockey coach during a peewee game at a North York arena last night. (File photo)
Former Leafs' tough guy Tie Domi was "like a beast" as he screamed obscenities at his 11-year-old son Max's peewee hockey coach at a North York arena last night.
Witnesses say Domi's profane tirade happened in front of a dozen stunned and scared young players, parents and fans.
One onlooker called Toronto Police to the arena at 8:05 p.m., saying Domi was involved in "a fight."
At about that same time, several witnesses say, Domi blasted Toronto Marlboro's peewee AAA coach Lucas Miller after the team lost 2-0 to the Toronto Red Wings in a playoff game.
"He was like a beast or a caged animal," said a parent who was in the rink. "I mean, this is kid's hockey."
The Sun received many calls from irate parents but also some from those who side with Domi.
Threats made
A call on the Toronto Police radio told responding cops that threats were made against a minor league coach and he was afraid to go into the dressing room.
Lucas Miller's wife, Jolaine, told the Sun last night she is "now concerned for the future and (her husband's) safety."
She said, "Our main concern is to get him (Domi) out of the rink."
She said parents are worried about Domi showing up at a team practice today or at another game between the two teams Sunday.
She described her husband as shaken but okay. But several parents said the whole thing was an overreaction.
"I was there and I think it's only news because it's Mr. Domi," said Mike Soucier, whose son Mikey plays on the team. "Tie is very passionate. He just said to the coach, 'You are not coaching to win'."
He said the coach was just as "excited."
He said it was Miller's wife who called the police, who in turn "ripped up the report."
"There is no story here," adds Dan Fotinos, whose son Alex is on the same squad.
Jolaine Miller said she was surprised Domi was so agitated since her husband "gave Max a break tonight."
It seems the younger Domi had forgotten his hockey gloves but was not benched -- which is the normal practice.
Toronto Police confirmed last night that officers were called to the arena, but there were no arrests, no charges laid and that nobody laid any complaint against the former hockey pugilist.
Several witnesses say that while Domi swore repeatedly during an angry tirade, there was not any physical contact between the two, nor did Domi make any threats.
Witnesses say Domi came down from the stands and accosted Miller outside the team's ice-level dressing room at the end of the game.
An enraged Domi was apparently upset at Max's lack of ice time.
"He was just going nuts ... about his son should have got more ice time," said one witness, who did not give her name on the advice of her father.
'Sewer mouth'
"He had a sewer mouth. It was ridiculous," she said.
The witness said the coach (Miller) told Domi in a normal voice that he was "off base" and "way out of line".
"It was unbelievable," she said, adding that she expected more from a an ex-NHLer and supposed role model.
Another witness to the incident, who also refused to give his name, said he saw Domi shaking his finger at Miller and yelling out "every other kid on the f------ team got more ice time than his son."
Domi turned to walk away, but then whisked around and rifled more profanities at Miller.
"You're a f------ s----- coach. What the f--- do you think you're doing ... You're just playing two f------ lines," the witness said.
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Hockeyguy_27
- Posts: 745
- Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm
Re: shortbenched in Canada
And Domi seemed like such a nice, likeable, gentlemanly type of guy 
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buhockeyace
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:50 pm
Speaking from being on the coaching end of the spectrum, the benched player end of the spectrum, and the player getting double shifted end of the spectrum in my career. I agree with playing a full bench for the whole season, and in playoffs when ever possible. If you watch the highschool season or college season, the teams that are playing two lines the whole season will win some games, but as the season wears on they tail off. This is due to injury, fatigue, and other teams developing thier third and fourth lines to compete with other teams first lines (for matching lines in the playoffs). But when the season is on the line, (3rd period 1 goal game in the section final), you will most likely need to shorten the bench. Remember, as a coach your job is to do what is in the best intrest of the team and program as a whole, this includes improving kids individually but also getting the win when the season is on the line. The message that I am trying to get accross is that there are many coaches that go to a short bench to early, and the whole program suffers. They may win a pee wee state title but never make it to the Xcel center as high school players. At the same time, it isn't fair to the team to be playing the fourth line against the other teams first line in overtime.