Orono Coach Brad Ryan Gone?

[hockeygod]

not all these things happened this past year to our team, but I have seen it all happen this past year to a few teams we played. I could make a list of what happened to our team but it is all water under the bridge now and I have to say once the AD was made aware of it he took the proper steps including hiring a new coach who everyone says is incredible unfortunitly my daughters time has past at Hill and she won't get the benifit of the changes that were made. but the girls playing from now on will and they should consider themselves very lucky. As far as coaches getting fired it is all about communication. None of us knows what goes on in any circomstances unless we live through it but I haven't seen a many problems with a coach that can't be solved by him communicating better. When a parent complains about something, even ice time, it should be dealt with, it takes a minute to tell the parent Johnny has to work on his, shooting, or grades or whatever but it takes hours to deal with the complaint once you've ignored it....things just don't go away they either get better or worse and the coach and his staff are the ones who can control the direction it goes.

[Can't Never Tried]

not all these things happened this past year to our team, but I have seen it all happen this past year to a few teams we played. I could make a list of what happened to our team but it is all water under the bridge now and I have to say once the AD was made aware of it he took the proper steps including hiring a new coach who everyone says is incredible unfortunitly my daughters time has past at Hill and she won't get the benifit of the changes that were made. but the girls playing from now on will and they should consider themselves very lucky. As far as coaches getting fired it is all about communication. None of us knows what goes on in any circomstances unless we live through it but I haven't seen a many problems with a coach that can't be solved by him communicating better. When a parent complains about something, even ice time, it should be dealt with, it takes a minute to tell the parent Johnny has to work on his, shooting, or grades or whatever but it takes hours to deal with the complaint once you've ignored it....things just don't go away they either get better or worse and the coach and his staff are the ones who can control the direction it goes.

Ok... so now what happens when Johnny's upset over something....and all his team mates know it, and johnny's mom or dad get involved and get the results they're looking for?
So they're all happy now, and the word gets out that if you have a problem, or don't like how things are going, just call the coach because it gets results....it would be an unbelievable nightmare for the coach, he is no longer running the team the parents are.
There is no easy answer to this... the parents are adults as well and can decide the direction as well, they can choose to remain silent, they can be confrontational, or they can take their concern to the AD and request a meeting between the 3 parties (4 in you include the player) for resolution.
I've never heard of a coach calling a parent and saying I don't like the way you are raising Johnny. ( maybe it's happened in abuse situations??IDK).

Don't get me wrong I have had my share of sleepless nights being upset, I also know that looking back it's made my kids stronger to force them to deal with their own issues...
(it hurts like ---)
But it's sports.. if they were in danger, or court, or something really life threatening then intervention is required.

[hockeygod]

a coach dosn't need to change his coaching style or even his decisions but like all of us, when asked he should be able to tell people why he made those decisions....why am I not playing? becuase you can't skate as good as the other kids....it's that simple, the dad asks why johnny isn't playing? because he can't skate as good, if wants to play more you should see about getting him skating lessons.....it really is that simple. istead when Johnny asks why he isn't playing he hears "it's my decision" or "cause your not good enough" when a dad hears that he's upset because in his eyes johnny is the best one on the team so dad has a fit saying the coach dosn't like his son, If the rest of the team gets answers like that to there questions before long everyone is saying the coach knows nothing about hockey and it's all because he couldn't tell little Johhny he needs to work on his backward crossovers more than he can get in practice.

[Neutron 14]

a coach dosn't need to change his coaching style or even his decisions but like all of us, when asked he should be able to tell people why he made those decisions....why am I not playing? becuase you can't skate as good as the other kids....it's that simple, the dad asks why johnny isn't playing? because he can't skate as good, if wants to play more you should see about getting him skating lessons.....it really is that simple. istead when Johnny asks why he isn't playing he hears "it's my decision" or "cause your not good enough" when a dad hears that he's upset because in his eyes johnny is the best one on the team so dad has a fit saying the coach dosn't like his son, If the rest of the team gets answers like that to there questions before long everyone is saying the coach knows nothing about hockey and it's all because he couldn't tell little Johhny he needs to work on his backward crossovers more than he can get in practice.

Just so everyone knows, we've got to the real issue here.

[hockeygod]

your so funny, taking things a little out of context arn't we. whether we like it or not thats the way alot of parents are, they think there kids are awesome but in reality they all fit someplace in the middle with the exception of a very few. But if a coach tells me my kid needs to work on something I mention to my daughter and if they want to do something about it hey can. If not then I don't want to hear about it. but by giving me a complete answer I'm able to at least tell my kid what her problem is. incomplete answers give me nothing and thats what upsets parents and players the most

[Can't Never Tried]

a coach dosn't need to change his coaching style or even his decisions but like all of us, when asked he should be able to tell people why he made those decisions....why am I not playing? becuase you can't skate as good as the other kids....it's that simple, the dad asks why johnny isn't playing? because he can't skate as good, if wants to play more you should see about getting him skating lessons.....it really is that simple. istead when Johnny asks why he isn't playing he hears "it's my decision" or "cause your not good enough" when a dad hears that he's upset because in his eyes johnny is the best one on the team so dad has a fit saying the coach dosn't like his son, If the rest of the team gets answers like that to there questions before long everyone is saying the coach knows nothing about hockey and it's all because he couldn't tell little Johhny he needs to work on his backward crossovers more than he can get in practice.

Just so everyone knows, we've got to the real issue here.

Hey Neut I was taking the soft approach here now you've gone and cracked it wide open...and I will have to work the rest of the day

[Can't Never Tried]

your so funny, taking things a little out of context arn't we. whether we like it or not thats the way alot of parents are, they think there kids are awesome but in reality they all fit someplace in the middle with the exception of a very few. But if a coach tells me my kid needs to work on something I mention to my daughter and if they want to do something about it hey can. If not then I don't want to hear about it. but by giving me a complete answer I'm able to at least tell my kid what her problem is. incomplete answers give me nothing and thats what upsets parents and players the most

This is kind of a fun one
First of all the coach should tell the player not the parent, the problem is coaches do tell players a lot of the time, and then they go home and tell mom and dad that coach says I gotta work harder, mom and dad get tweaked and go after the coach cause my kids better then that, and then the parent protection factor kicks in.

The reason most parents think their kids are better then what others, and coaches think... is the fact that most parents watch their kid, not the whole game...trust me I know it's almost impossible not to do it.
Watch a game your child is not playing in and you see things differently,
or pick a different kid and watch the whole game focused on that player and you will see that your child does not stand out as much as you think!

I wish I could sell the glasses that make us see things this way.

[hockeygod]

That parent protection factor really sucks, I try not to be but I have to admit that I have been affected by it at times also and I sit on my hands until the feeling wears off......The only time I find myself talking to a coach is to verify information, tell him his team looks good when the acually do look good or let him know about why my kids won't be at a practice or a game. with girls hockey they are in it mostly for the experiance of playing they don't even really cut and my daughter was on the team she belonged on. The things that really upset me is the way some of the players were treated. I seen a coach arrive for the first day tryouts with a list preprinted on who was being considered for varsity, I also seen a coach who only showed up for games. There were many instances that were better and worse than these that all could have been explained away but instead the coach is the one that went into the protection mode and lashed out at some people including the kids which upset enough people that his staff was let go...his problems, like most coaching problems could have been taken care of simply by him giving complete answers to the stupid questions he knows people are going to ask.

[Can't Never Tried]

Let me touch on a couple more things then...
1. Don't verify the info! that's the HS kids responsibility, if they miss something and are disciplined they learn from it.
It's also up to the kid to tell the coach he won't be at a function, let the coach verify with you if he feels the need.
Mom and dad have to stay out of it...pure and simple!

2. Having a list or an idea of whom to watch prior to season tryouts may be a result of many factors, one of which may be he's done some homework and is prepared, talked around to people in the know, has gone and watched them play off season hockey, etc.. if he knew who the team was why would he bother to bring a list?

3. Showing up for games only is unacceptable...terminate!

4. You don't have to tell the coach his team looks good, more then likely this happens when that persons child has had a good game or got to play a lot, it comes off bad to a coach trust me on that one.

[hockeygod]

You probly should be coaching a bunch of orphans then because like it or not parents try to communicate with coaches.

Most families have the kid tell the coach and then verify with the coach that the kid told them and when the coach tells my kids something I verify with him if it sounds unusal or like something is wrong ...it's called making sure everyone is on the same page so that nothing gets screwed up.

As for telling coaches it was a good game when they play good, not all parents just say that when there kids play good, some of us actually watch the game and know the the coaches appreciate a kind word every once in while.

You can have your lists of players all you want but in private schools there is an influx of new players every year and to automaticly exclude those players because they wern't on the list (that was handed out to the players after practice so they knew where to go next practice) is being very shortsighted
.
You seem like you've gone into the protection mode of a coach. I feel for you, try sitting on your hands until the moment passes.

[Can't Never Tried]

Nope ..done coaching for some of the stated obvious reasons! and because I wanted to watch the game
Parent still.... I know both sides well.
Really.......... on most families?? I only know what ours does, which is make the kids responsible, if they can drive a car they better be able to listen and keep a hockey schedule without help.

Don't take it personal it's a good discussion many can learn from.

[24Bingo]

I can't resist anymore. Hockeygod, you come off as another over involved parent that will not allow your child to learn from their own experiences. Instead of helping young adults, or in your case a young adult that is moving on to independence, you want to resolve all of the issues yourself. Your actions enable dependence and blaming. It will never be the fault of yours or child with your attitude, it will always be be because of someone else that you don't receive the credit you feel is owed. This will not work later in life and you will have an eternity of handling issues because you have not taught the necessity to tackle adversity or conflict resolution. Sorry if this a little harsh but I believe that it has become all too common. I'm grateful that my parents allowed me to struggle with my own issues in sports. Although they did offer support, they didn't always give me the answers. If I had an issue with a coach, the question from my parents was, " what did you do to have that action from him?" That question was then followed by " So, what are you going to do to change it?" Just my two cents.

[Knowlzee]

In a free society, if you did not like the lack of communication by a coach,....or if you didn't like that he was absent from a practice,.....or if he was a bully,.....or if he only showed up for games,....or if he had a list of players considered for varsity......you could leave and go to a different school. However, now in our society where a few have determined that we have to stay at our "home school",....the choices are limited to quitting hockey,......or sell the house and move,.....or in hockeygod's case, rally the angry parents together and whine to the AD.

Wouldn't another option such as transferring, be just as effective for all involved? Wouldn't it be more desireable to just be able to go to a different campground,....rather than form a group of angry parents to use the coaches tent as a bathroom, so to speak? If hockeygod is the problem he could just leave,.....if the coach is truly incompetent, the AD would get the message when existing players leave, and new players don't appear,.....in either case, the coachs' tent floor can remain dry.

[Can't Never Tried]

In a free society, if you did not like the lack of communication by a coach,....or if you didn't like that he was absent from a practice,.....or if he was a bully,.....or if he only showed up for games,....or if he had a list of players considered for varsity......you could leave and go to a different school. However, now in our society where a few have determined that we have to stay at our "home school",....the choices are limited to quitting hockey,......or sell the house and move,.....or in hockeygod's case, rally the angry parents together and whine to the AD.

Wouldn't another option such as transferring, be just as effective for all involved? Wouldn't it be more desireable to just be able to go to a different campground,....rather than form a group of angry parents to use the coaches tent as a bathroom, so to speak? If hockeygod is the problem he could just leave,.....if the coach is truly incompetent, the AD would get the message when existing players leave, and new players don't appear,.....in either case, the coachs' tent floor can remain dry.

Had not thought of the "being trapped in our hometown" angle
I would think that would be all the more resolve to make the best of your situation....if you truly work hard in the off season it's amazing how the situation improves, it's like now they see me, where I was invisible before.

Running away is never the solution.... because your just relocating a problem!

[Hockeyguy_27]

You guys are so funny, you form a lynch mob without even knowing all the facts...hows that any different than what happens to coaches, as for the Hill Murrays girls coach yes I was part of the lynch mob but I was far from the leader. As for my daughter, she no longer goes to Hill Murray. I was just trying to point out that if coaches comunicated better with the parents they wouldn't be losing there job as much. That was the case with Hill's girls coach, As more pressure was put on him he climbed deeper into his shell and allowed the rumblings to turn into earthquakes that proved to be the end of his coaching tenure, and by handling things the way he did we saw it as he was firing himself. Because he never felt he needed to justify his decisions to the parents he never gained the support he needed to fend off the onslaught he was up against..he underestemated the resolve of quite a few parents and hid in his silence.

The basic disagreement I have with what you are saying is that the coach is obligated to explain his actions to the parents. This is not to say coaches should be exempt from accountibility--This accountability however, is to the players and the athletic director. The way I'm understanding what you're saying a coach would have to justify why he chose certain players on the team, why his line combinations are what they, why he uses certain players on PP and PK, why a players didn't get to play in the last 5 minutes of a tie game....I've had coaches who I didn't think were fair but that is life. I'd complain to my Dad and he would tell me to shut my mouth and adjust to the coach. He would also tell me that someday I would have bosses I didn't like but would have to deal with them. That advice was good for me and has proven to be a very valuable life lesson.

[winger91]

There has to be balance. Parents have to sometimes step up for their kids because there are bad coaches, but they also have to know when to step back and let their kids be coached. My parents have had to step up for me but there were circumstances that made it happen, (our coach's kid was on the team and he pretty much just coached his kid) but 99% of the time they let the coach coach. I would be totally embarrassed if my parents fought with the coach unless there was a really good reason, and sometimes there are.

[Irishmans Shanty]

"Good communication" is a pretty broad concept, talk itself isn't fruiful unless it is talk about the right things. In my world, a coach has to make sure that his players know their roles within the team. Sometimes this involves a sit down discussion and sometimes it doesn't. The best coaches are the ones who recognize when to call that meeting before the meeting calls him.

Once roles are defined, and this better happen in November, playing time follows. Not all players may like their roles but they can work within the system as long as they know there is a system.

This is the biggest reason why being a first year coach is a nightmare. You don't know who anyone is and role definition takes longer to unfold.

[breakout]

"Good communication" is a pretty broad concept, talk itself isn't fruiful unless it is talk about the right things. In my world, a coach has to make sure that his players know their roles within the team. Sometimes this involves a sit down discussion and sometimes it doesn't. The best coaches are the ones who recognize when to call that meeting before the meeting calls him.

Once roles are defined, and this better happen in November, playing time follows. Not all players may like their roles but they can work within the system as long as they know there is a system.

This is the biggest reason why being a first year coach is a nightmare. You don't know who anyone is and role definition takes longer to unfold.

Good points

[Knowlzee]

Running away is never the solution.... because your just relocating a problem!

The above statement may be true if the student/parent transfer is the problem, and they do not learn from the previous experience.

However, if the coach is the source of the problem, the transfer option may be the most civilized. In civilized America, pressure to remove an incompetent coach as a result of market forces, should be preferred over the lynch mob approach used by hockeygod and his gang of angry parents.

This is typical unintended consequences when government (MSHSL in the case of transfer rules) is sought (rather than personal freedom of choice), and used to solve an apparent problem, government invariably creates another problem (or more).

Look forward to an increase in the lynch mob approach, with the new even tighter transfer rules.

[hockeygod]

As I have said before comunication is the key to a coach being succesful or at the very minimum keeping his job. These people who say that a coach should never talk to a parent are living a different world than the rest of us. Unless your Herb Brooks (who spent alot of time talking to parents) Talking to parents is part of the job because they pay the bills all the way through and they can make coaching fun for someone or a complete nightmere.

[Knowlzee]

A coach has no obligation to communicate to parents, his responsibility is to coach the players, not their parents. The parents give the coach this responsibility when they sign up. That is the primary reason that it is so important to be able to make personal decisions regarding school/team choice. Parents need to be able to select the best options for coaches/teachers/programs etc., based on their research and experience.

However, as IS has outlined, it is imperative that a coach communicates to the players. The player must know their individual role. Once known, most will accept and contribute in that role.

Communication to the parents is valuable to minimize parent disruption (sad but true), especially in this time when some parents are so involved. But with some of the costs and time involved, some involment is understandable, but unfortunately is often taken too far. All that is really needed is a meeting at the start to commicate philosophy and what is expected by all to accomplish what is intended,......provided the philosophy and expectations are followed. When expectations aren't followed, issues may arise.

P.S. Very few, if any, youth coaches coach as an occupation. They mostly have other "jobs". They coach for other reasons,....and parent involvment is probably not one of them.

[breakout]

hockeygod is digging in to prove his point. He has moved from a shovel to a Bobcat. Might be searching for a back-hoe

Seems most respondants disagree with his methodology.

[Can't Never Tried]

All that is really needed is a meeting at the start to commicate philosophy and what is expected by all to accomplish what is intended,......provided the philosophy and expectations are followed. When expectations aren't followed, issues may arise.

There it is in a nut shell!

And your right... once this is done it is important that the coaches/players/parents all adhere to the philosophy and expectations.

Some good feedback on this!

[hockeygod]

I may be digging in but I prefer to call it staying on point. Communication is still the key, as we've seen here on this board, people form lynch mobs pretty quick and it is the same in coaching as in most other career's. people will form there own opinions based things they may not understand and in order to make any career or coaching tenure a pleasent one, the people placed in charge must communicate effectivly. If that dosen't happen the person in charge is destined to fail as we have seen in so many cases with some decent coaches.

[Can't Never Tried]

My last question on this..HG have you ever coached hockey?
The reason I ask is because the people that always seem to think they know the best way to do things have never actually done them.

Example.... I've seen parents at all levels screaming at there kids for not doing better then they do...it's amazing how some out of shape mom or dad that's either never played hockey, or any sport for that matter expect their child to perform at the parent's expected level.(usually unrealistic)
I've told them...
Lace em up and get out there, you'll find once around the rink and your legs are like cement, and then try to think 2 moves ahead, and execute passes, and shot's off balance while your so out of breath your ready to blow lunch.
But it sure looks easy from the stands!!
Same with coaching, there is a lot more to it then most parents appreciate.
I mean all we ever do is stand on the bench and decide who were gonna screw over next.
The only satisfaction you get is knowing you've helped more then you've hurt, and knowing all the while none was intentional.