Anders Lee

[breakout]

Wow, this is a huge move I think. The Hornets were definatly a contender before, but Anders gets them that much closer. With Reber graduated, he helps fill that void. The team can only get better, if the egos stay in check, which was talked about before and I agree with that. Though I don't think it will be a problem, what do I know? It very well could be. So he might be centering Leer and Friedman? Who is this Friedman? Did he play JV last year, cause I looked at the team roster and didn't see him. Again, great pick up for the Hornets. Should be fun wactching 2AA this year.

Friedman was the leading scorer for Eastview as a sophomore last year. He might be the fastest Hornet this year............or at least give Gleason a good race.

[packerboy]

Incredibly, HS wrote: "We also know that there have been many years in many different sports where the winner of a lower class can walk all over the winner of a bigger class"

Name one.

Here is the thing HS. Edina is the real deal, big time high school sports and STA is "lets play in A so we can win and pretend its just as good as AA" .

[Neutron 14]

I'm sure many will reply to me and say I'm a moron...

I think people are pretty much bored with calling you a moron.

[topshelf10]

"We also know that there have been many years in many different sports where the winner of a lower class can walk all over the winner of a bigger class" Name one.

Basketball this year....

STA won the AAA crown by like 15-20pts., Buffalo and Armstrong was an overtime thriller in AAAA, STA beat Armstrong by 10

[breakout]

"We also know that there have been many years in many different sports where the winner of a lower class can walk all over the winner of a bigger class" Name one.

Basketball this year....

STA won the AAA crown by like 15-20pts., Buffalo and Armstrong was an overtime thriller in AAAA, STA beat Armstrong by 10

Wow, that's Hopkinsesque...............I have always thought of STA as a basketball dynasty

[thestickler07]

STA should just cut the crap of the no opt up bs and play top class in everything. They in all likelihood would have won the same number of state championships (swimming and basketball) had they played in AA and AAAA respectively. And they would have enjoyed great successes this year. "A" hockey has no glamour, but it has decent competition. I believe the primary reason for them not opting up has been twofold though;

1. They have traditionally played where they are assigned.

2. They lack the facilities most AA schools have.

And I say the second point because it really couldn't be more true. Up until two years ago STA had essentially one basketball court on the whole campus. Instead of a huge fieldhouse at places like Cretin, Hopkins, or Jefferson, they were moving back the bleachers to get at two courts that have no buffer, which they shared with 6 other STA middle and high school basketball teams. They added a temporary "bubble" dome structure that houses two full size courts for their other teams. Which should come down when the field house gets done, if it ever does.

The hockey arena was a great addition that was much needed, considering their "home" rink was at the IGH Vet. They finally had a good place to practice, with sane ice times, and it helped immensely.

The football team practiced at 5 different venues during the season because of weather/condition of the practice field at STA, which is only 80 yards long. This is a far cry from places like Rosemount, Minnetonka, and Eden Praire, traditional football powers with turf fields, large amounts of practice space, and crazily enough, domed practice areas. STA added 2 practice fields adajcent to the hockey arena, that will serve the soccer teams (6 of them) next year, and allow the varsity to practice on campus again. (They went to Kensington Park because of space issues)

I think when the new fieldhouse/aquatic center is complete, STA will join the AA ranks for good, and start competing where they belong.

[stpaul]

I have no problem with STA playing in A in hockey, 3A in basketball and 4A in football. It is a school of only 500 and some boys. Their rise in hockey is pretty recent. However they should look to move up in hockey soon. The A tournament will continue to be the B tournament because so many A size schools like HM, BSM & Roseau play up in AA. They will have a great rivalry with HM in the conference and CDH in the sections each year.

I see STA is now suffering from the "live by the transfer, die by the transfer " malady. They built a quick winner with some transfer kids. But this same free agent mentality can hurt you too. They came only for hockey and leave for hockey elsewhere. Hill-Murray has had years like this. That 2004-2005 team under-achieved and had chemistry problems all year because of kids who transferred in. Josh Carlson coming from Woodbury for 12th grade being the prime example that year.

Both schools should look to build with 7th graders who come for middle school and 9th graders coming new for high school. They are committed to the place for more than just hockey. I think the new transfer rule will actually help HM & STA. I believe HM is not losing kids this year because of that stability. Many are multi-sport athletes and have been at the school from the start.

[Ron_Burgundy]

I don't feel right putting BSM, HM and STA with the likes of Roseau. Just because Roseau is a public school, with no invitations to the top players in the state. If my memory serves me right, all three of the previously named teams are private school..

[packerboy]

"We also know that there have been many years in many different sports where the winner of a lower class can walk all over the winner of a bigger class" Name one.

Basketball this year....

STA won the AAA crown by like 15-20pts., Buffalo and Armstrong was an overtime thriller in AAAA, STA beat Armstrong by 10

They also lost to CDH by about 15 topshelf and CDH lost in the secton fnals. So, by your logic, STA wasnt even good enough to make it to the tournament let alone beat the champ.

The regular season is important but beat those teams in the sectons or at the state tournamnet. Then you can talk.

[topshelf10]

"We also know that there have been many years in many different sports where the winner of a lower class can walk all over the winner of a bigger class" Name one.

Basketball this year....

STA won the AAA crown by like 15-20pts., Buffalo and Armstrong was an overtime thriller in AAAA, STA beat Armstrong by 10

They also lost to CDH by about 15 topshelf and CDH lost in the secton fnals. So, by your logic, STA wasnt even good enough to make it to the tournament let alone beat the champ.

The regular season is important but beat those teams in the sectons or at the state tournamnet. Then you can talk.

Read what I was referring to Einstein. We are talking about the WINNER of each class. In this case, STA who WON their class could beat the WINNER of the larger class.

It's debateable whether STA would have made it to state in AAAA. They lost to Cretin and Hopkins.

[breakout]

"We also know that there have been many years in many different sports where the winner of a lower class can walk all over the winner of a bigger class" Name one.

Basketball this year....

STA won the AAA crown by like 15-20pts., Buffalo and Armstrong was an overtime thriller in AAAA, STA beat Armstrong by 10

They also lost to CDH by about 15 topshelf and CDH lost in the secton fnals. So, by your logic, STA wasnt even good enough to make it to the tournament let alone beat the champ.

The regular season is important but beat those teams in the sectons or at the state tournamnet. Then you can talk.

Read what I was referring to Einstein. We are talking about the WINNER
of each class. In this case, STA who WON their class could beat the WINNER of the larger class.
bbb
It's debateable whether STA would have made it to state in AAAA. They lost to Cretin and Hopkins.

Wonderful job of staying on topic

[power92]

"We also know that there have been many years in many different sports where the winner of a lower class can walk all over the winner of a bigger class" Name one.

Basketball this year....

STA won the AAA crown by like 15-20pts., Buffalo and Armstrong was an overtime thriller in AAAA, STA beat Armstrong by 10

They also lost to CDH by about 15 topshelf and CDH lost in the secton fnals. So, by your logic, STA wasnt even good enough to make it to the tournament let alone beat the champ.

The regular season is important but beat those teams in the sectons or at the state tournamnet. Then you can talk.

Read what I was referring to Einstein. We are talking about the WINNER of each class. In this case, STA who WON their class could beat the WINNER of the larger class.

It's debateable whether STA would have made it to state in AAAA. They lost to Cretin and Hopkins.

Didn't Buffalo beat Armstrong, Einstien?

[i heart atum peetersun]

Wow packerboy you seem to have a strong hate twords sta. Sta is a school of roughly 500 kids and the SSP fudge packers i mean Packers is a school of over 1,000. You shouldnt be complaining about sta competing in A as much as you should be complaining about the Packers playing in AA when the Packers varsity team should be playing in a Bantam League

[Neutron 14]

Wow packerboy you seem to have a strong hate twords sta. Sta is a school of roughly 500 kids and the SSP fudge packers i mean Packers is a school of over 1,000. You shouldnt be complaining about sta competing in A as much as you should be complaining about the Packers playing in AA when the Packers varsity team should be playing in a Bantam League

Ya know, I would have thought your brother tweedle dee would have taught you better. Explain to me, i heart missing brain, what total enrollment has to do with fielding a highly competitive hockey team? Especially one who activley "blows the curve" when attracting students who "happen" to play hockey? What trait does STA have that Cretin, Hill, AHA, and BSM don't?

Class A was created because small school coaches said they couldn't compete with the mega-suburban schools. Roseau, Hill, AHA, Duluth East and others refused to submit to this notion. Because of this dissent, Tier 1 and 2 were established. When that didn't work out (for obvious reasons now) we were/are left with the current opt up system. Those schools who feel they can compete are welcome to opt up to AA.

The rest must bow!

The Packers and their history? Your STA Cadet come ladies couldn't carry thier jockstrap.

[HShockeywatcher]

The thing I love about this is how people continually say "Class A was creating for..." as a reason why a certain school should opt up. But if it was indeed created for that reason and the school in question should be in the bigger class then the MSHSL would've put them in that class.

What would be so wrong with a system where teams are not allowed to opt up? It would be great.

packerboy, someone like you should know you can't just hang your head on one game. You're trying to say a team who had two losses, one to Hopkins (the best team in state) and one to Cretin (a 100+year rival where anything can happen), wouldn't be able to compete in AA? If you're going to use one game, well then I'll use the fact that they lost to Hopkins by the exact same point spread as Cretin. Both teams where up by (I think at halftime and both teams got outscored 17 in the 2nd half to lose by the same amount. In addition, St Thomas held Hopkins to less than Cretin did. I'd say they're pretty even.

I don't know about winning in swimming every year. It would've been close. I think they might've walked away with a couple 2nd place trophies as EP has had a few really good years, which is another reason for staying down. A good program sometimes can't compete with numbers.

But thestickler07 brought up a wonderful point about the facilities. The one thing Holy Angels has that St Thomas doesn't is Trebil, and the year he came so did players from Jefferson. If St Thomas is a Class A hockey team in 10 years, I will be disappointed as well as everyone, but just because they are private doesn't mean having a few good years makes them have to opt up. If they HAVE to opt up, then there are many more teams much more qualified, then there would be no point in the smaller class and we'd be back to a tier system.

Face it guys, the answer isn't having good Class A teams opt up, the answer is having good Class A size teams not opt up. If Holy Angels never opted up, how many state titles do you think St Thomas would have?

[i heart atum peetersun]

Wow packerboy you seem to have a strong hate twords sta. Sta is a school of roughly 500 kids and the SSP fudge packers i mean Packers is a school of over 1,000. You shouldnt be complaining about sta competing in A as much as you should be complaining about the Packers playing in AA when the Packers varsity team should be playing in a Bantam League

Ya know, I would have thought your brother tweedle dee would have taught you better. Explain to me, i heart missing brain, what total enrollment has to do with fielding a highly competitive hockey team? Especially one who activley "blows the curve" when attracting students who "happen" to play hockey? What trait does STA have that Cretin, Hill, AHA, and BSM don't?

Class A was created because small school coaches said they couldn't compete with the mega-suburban schools. Roseau, Hill, AHA, Duluth East and others refused to submit to this notion. Because of this dissent, Tier 1 and 2 were established. When that didn't work out (for obvious reasons now) we were/are left with the current opt up system. Those schools who feel they can compete are welcome to opt up to AA.

The rest must bow!

The Packers and their history? Your STA Cadet come ladies couldn't carry thier jockstrap.

unfortunatly your post made no sense. The trait that sta has is that they are considered a small school (500 kids) therefore are able to play in A. I really dont see why people get so pissed off unless sta beats there team which dosnt matter cause its still legit becasue the size of there school. Not that i am sticking up for sta or anything but its true

[stpaul]

HSHW wrote: "Face it guys, the answer isn't having good Class A teams opt up, the answer is having good Class A size teams not opt up. If Holy Angels never opted up, how many state titles do you think St Thomas would have?"

This is your response to those who question why STA is in Class A ? This statement is on a par with those written by the Tartan kids.

The State Tournament has been selling out big arenas since it moved to Met Center 38 years ago. Adding Class A didn't change that. There is now a big tournament and a small tournament. The big tournament sells out. The small tournament draws 6 or 7,000 people in a 19,000 seat arena. That is not going to change. AHA, HM, CDH, BSM, Roseau and others want to be in the big tournament. STA should too. I understand that their rise in hockey is a recent developement, but moving to AA should be their goal. BTW Warroad should move up too.

I like the class A tournament. I've enjoyed watching pretty good teams like Hermantown, Dul. Marshall and others. But I don't confuse Orono, Little Falls and the other small schools with the big boys.

Plus it's not all about the state tournament. This past year Hill-Murray & STA were pretty even teams. HM had win a section with Roseville, Centennial & White Bear to get to state. STA had Lourdes, Richfield & Red Wing as competition. Which one accomplished more at the end of the season? It's not even close.

In 2006 CDH students held up a sign that read "STA - Congratulations for winning the JV tournament" That will remain the opinion of the Class A tournament by most HS hockey fans.

[breakout]

Has this thread gotten away from the root topic? How about starting a new topic? STA??? STA in Class A vs. AA???

Just a thought

[HShockeywatcher]

stpaul,

So, a team goes from winning 4 games to winning one title and because they are a private school they should all of a sudden opt up? Three years ago St Thomas got 4th and none of the 3 teams that did better than them "should opt up" and this last year they got 3rd and I have yet to hear any talk of why Hermantown or Marshall should opt up. Hmmm...

You're right, it is the small tournament, but my point is that it doesn't have to be. We tried a Tier system and saw that didn't work. So when we go to a class system why do we let people opt up? That's like a choiced tier system. If they made the rule that teams couldn't opt up then each tournament would probably bring in just as much crowd, in fact Class A may at that point bring in more viewers.

And yes, I would agree that if St Thomas' top 6 players in the last three years were going to be playing on the team next year that staying in Class A would probably be a bad idea. But while they do well many of the members of the team who got them the success they got the previous year leave for bigger and brighter things.

You're really going to use something from Cretin fans about St Thomas as testimony on your side? That's not biased at all.

These are 15-18 year old kids. Why can't you congratulate them on their accomplishments? If Albert Lea would've defied the odds last year and won state everyone would've congratulate them, but when St Thomas gets 3rd, they should obviously opt up.

[packerboy]

This all started because of the post by HS which in part stated

" Why would you transfer from playing on 3 state level teams to 1 state level team that's going to have a hell of a time making it to state?
I dont understand why a player would leave STA to go to Edina when afterall STa has had such great success in the state tournamnet."

No one 'hates' any school nor is there any big deal problem with teams opting to play A.

But if you dont understand that there is a difference between the 2 classes, your head is in the clouds.

In addition, we have a Class AA champ whose enrollment is less than the current A champ. So, when the "poor witto" Class A people talk about their numbers as justification for their politically created competitive class, some of us chuckle.

[Neutron 14]

This all started because of the post by HS which in part stated

" Why would you transfer from playing on 3 state level teams to 1 state level team that's going to have a hell of a time making it to state?
I dont understand why a player would leave STA to go to Edina when afterall STa has had such great success in the state tournamnet."

No one 'hates' any school nor is there any big deal problem with teams opting to play A.

But if you dont understand that there is a difference between the 2 classes, your head is in the clouds.

In addition, we have a Class AA champ whose enrollment is less than the current A champ. So, when the "poor witto" Class A people talk about their numbers as justification for their politically created competitive class, some of us chuckle.

I liked the part where "Could walk all over" morphed into "Compete with".

Classic HS.

[stpaul]

I was not criticizing St. Thomas Academy, it's players or class A hockey. I was critcizing the dumb idea that class A enrollment size schools like Hill-Murray should not be allowed to move up to AA. I think STA should move up, I understand why they haven't & don't really care if they don't.

I do think they should move the Class A tournament to St. Cloud or Duluth. It would give it it's own identity and they would fill the NHC or the DECC. They have class AA & A baseball in St. Cloud & in Jordan.

[stickboy1956]

I was not criticizing St. Thomas Academy, it's players or class A hockey. I was critcizing the dumb idea that class A enrollment size schools like Hill-Murray should not be allowed to move up to AA. I think STA should move up, I understand why they haven't & don't really care if they don't.

I do think they should move the Class A tournament to St. Cloud or Duluth. It would give it it's own identity and they would fill the NHC or the DECC. They have class AA & A baseball in St. Cloud & in Jordan.

They would go back to a one class tournament before they would split the sites - that's part of the motivation for 2 classes - more kids get to come to St. Paul - I'm not saying it's right but that's just the way it is.

[HShockeywatcher]

I still don't understand how you can argue for two classes and argue the top teams in the lower class opting up. That's a tier system. Plain and simple. But I guess logic has escaped. Oh well. Using what I have said to your side. The fact that the teams dominating AA are A schools is exactly the reason to not let teams opt up.

In all years the A champ can compete with the AA schools. What's your point? It depends on the sport. It's never happened in hockey, but in many sports the lower champ would/does/has walked all over the high champ.

[packerboy]

HS, why would you have 2 classes of equal strength at top ?

Classes are supposed to be different levels of competition. The assumpton that these levels are determined based on enrollment is badly flawed in hockey.

In football its a no brainer and it works.

The fact that A sized schools do well in AA when they opt up is the reason not to have 2 classes based on enrollment.

If they couldnt opt up, the state tournament would be a clusterfluke.
AHA vs Orono? CDH vs Albert Lea?