Costs: MN HS vs Midwest Midget AAA

morebs · Post by **morebs** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:53 pm

I found this site via MYHockey and after a recent debate on the Chicago area forum about the merits of the MN system vs the Midget AAA route preferred by the rest of the midwest, I'm curious about costs. I honestly am not smart enough to know which system might be better at developing talent, but I know how much Midget AAA costs. Assessments generally run $4k-$6k. Travel expenses generally equal that if a parent attends a majority of games, but some parents definitely start staying home and reduce travel to half the assessment amount. Still, $6k-12k, not including equipment, summer camps, other lessons, etc. Granted the Midget season is longer than the MN HS season, but how would you compare MN HS expenses? Do families even pay to play HS hockey in MN? What equipment is paid for by the schools or does it vary from school to school? How many overnights per season? Who pays the coaches and how much do they make?

Dazed&Confused · Post by **Dazed&Confused** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:21 pm

The cost of hockey in minnesota differs from one area or another. This subject is brod and filled with various opinions I am sure. In my opinion The beautiful thing about Mn Hockey is the fact its avaible to al income levels. If you want to play you can. Yes there are expensive programs and traveling expenses . But you dont need to do these types of hockey. House leagues or just pick up hockey. I often talk with people that you could probably put a team of kids that would be fantastic, but just dont have the money to do all the camps and AAA garbage.

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:40 pm

Dazed&Confused wrote:The cost of hockey in minnesota differs from one area or another. This subject is brod and filled with various opinions I am sure. In my opinion The beautiful thing about Mn Hockey is the fact its avaible to al income levels. If you want to play you can. Yes there are expensive programs and traveling expenses . But you dont need to do these types of hockey. House leagues or just pick up hockey. I often talk with people that you could probably put a team of kids that would be fantastic, but just dont have the money to do all the camps and AAA garbage.

He's asking about HS HOCKEY.

Each school has its own fee that it charges players to help offset the cost. These are generally called "activity fees" and are charged for each sport and most have a cap on the cost if the student plays multiple sports.

These days budgets are getting tighter for schools, so booster clubs help raise money for the team to travel, buy jerseys etc. For my son, I think his activity fee is 200 per sport. The school buses the kids to games, pays ice time and coaches. We buy our own equipment and parents travel on thier own.

I could not tell you how much the school pays from their budget to have a boys hockey team. At his old school, the youth hockey association paid the tab for the kids from its association (HS team is a coop with several small community schools involved) and I believe it was about 800 to 1000 per player.

nickel slots · Post by **nickel slots** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:20 pm

To try to generalize it is difficult, but from what I've found, here's the bottom line:

AAA Major Midget ~$10k/year out of pocket

Mn High School Hockey <$1k/year out of pocket

Booster clubs absorb the majority of the costs (in some programs this includes everything from travel to equipment), but that varies significantly. Booster clubs might charge each family a certain rate, or they may capture all of their costs with fundraising.

Dazed&Confused · Post by **Dazed&Confused** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:35 pm

Opps, I am so sorry I didnt read his entire post. Next time I will send my response to you prior to posting. Thanks for your help.

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:24 am

Dazed&Confused wrote:Opps, I am so sorry I didnt read his entire post. Next time I will send my response to you prior to posting. Thanks for your help.

That would be fine, just send a pm and I'll proof it for you.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:59 am

It is a comparison of apples and oranges.

AAA Midget hockey in other states exists primariley because the numbers are not like they are in MN and the talent is spread out. So, they get "all the good kids" and put them on one team so they can develop better.

The problem then is: who do you play? The answer is teams from other states that do the same thing and thats where the travel and expense comes in.

Minnesota could go to a midget type format and teams would not have to leave the state because of our numbers. Cost would be higher but still similar to the costs of a Bantam A team playing 45 games and 3/4 tournaments.

Just extend the Minnesota hockey programs to add a "Varsity " level after Bantams. Forget about high school hockey and the MSHSL.

Neutron 14 · Post by **Neutron 14** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:39 am

packerboy wrote: Just extend the Minnesota hockey programs to add a "Varsity " level after Bantams. Forget about high school hockey and the MSHSL.

Then what would we do with all the omnipotent private school alumni?

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:05 pm

We could still have school teams that play a limited schedule just like we have school teams and Mickey Mantle/ VFW/Legion teams in baseball.

PS Bantam A's play 2 different schedules.

lxhockey · Post by **lxhockey** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:19 pm

I never quite understood how Bantams could be rostered on both MAHA and VFW teams when the seasons overlapped. Can anyone explain this?
Thanks.

greybeard58 · Post by **greybeard58** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:39 pm

The are sponsered by their local VFW and are registered with USA/MN Hockey. I believe the VFW league was put in place for teams to play more games.

Coachk · Post by **Coachk** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:07 am

I am from Chicago and as a kid had to travel from the southside to the northside just to play hs hockey. That was before AAA teams. Being in MN and coaching HS hockey and having friends who have kids in Illinois AAA, I can give you my perspective. Another post was right on if you don't have the money you can't play in Ill. It is easier money wise in MN put you have to be creative in getting icetime when the season is over, like local leagues and local tornement only AAA teams. Having a child who played for Culver Academy in Indiana, I have seen that most AAA especially Michigan are very good top to bottom. But after all this I must say if you look at the US National Team invitation roster I belive 12 are from MN with 2 being from Ill. You can draw your own conclusion.

lxhockey · Post by **lxhockey** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:14 pm

I know the VFW leagues provide additional games, but USA Hockey also states a player can only be rostered on one team. When the VFW season
overlaps the MN Hockey season, I've always wanted to know why this
works for VFW leagues but yet doesn't work or allow for AAA teams?

ie a Bantam can be rostered on both a VFW league team and a Bantam
team at the same time. Since MN Hockey 'registered' season goes from
Sept 1 - March 30, how can a Bantam be registered on another USA
Hockey sanctioned team during this same time period?

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:35 pm

Is the VFW league sanctioned by USA Hockeyfor sure?

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:39 pm

Never mind I found the answer:

ARTICLE III - GAMES
1. SINCE 1991 ALL VFW BANTAM A TOURNAMENTS, DISTRICT AND STATE, MUST BE SANCTIONED ACCORDING TO USA HOCKEY, VFW AND MAHA (Minnesota Hockey) RULES. THIS RULE WAS NEW FOR 1991 AND WAS PASSED BY THE MINNESOTA STATE VFW COUNCIL OF ADMINISTRATION AT ITS SEPTEMBER 23, 1990 MEETING IN BROOKLYN PARK. ALL VFW TOURNAMENTS WILL ALSO BE PLAYED UNDER MAHA RULES! ALL FEES HAVE BEEN WAIVED BY MAHA. IT IS THE ESPONSIBILITY OF THE DISTRICT VFW HOCKEY CHAIRMAN AND STATE VFW TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR TO REGISTER TOURNAMENTS WITH MAHA AT LEAST 60 DAYS IN ADVANCE OF THE TOURNAMENT. APPROVED SANCTION FORM MUST BE POSTED IN THE ARENA DURING ENTIRE TOURNAMENT.

greybeard58 · Post by **greybeard58** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:54 pm

If you want some interesting reading, USA Hockey has posted their minutes on their web site. The interesting one is the Affiliate Presidents minutes and the problems with recruiting at the AAA level as an example the President of Illinois complained the they had 107 outstate players playing for their teams at the highest levels. It seems there is so much pressure from parents and coaches to win that recruiting is getting out of hand.

badice · Post by **badice** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:51 am

What about Russell Stover in Kansas City? Any thought's on them?

juniorhockey · Post by **juniorhockey** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:00 pm

They are pretty new to the AAA scene. Ina short time they have done VERY well. They have honest coaches and train kids very hard. They've moved on a ton of kids also.

shooter812 · Post by **shooter812** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:07 pm

I played for Russell Stover last year, Great program, Coaches and I was impressed with the whole AAA scene. It costs money but for good reasons. Traveling across the US and Canada to play in the most prestigeous tournaments and top players in the selected age groups is the reason why. Most people on here don't know much about it because we don't have it in MN because HS is so popular. 17 of the 18 players on my team were out of town kids and one was local. It isn't just growing up with your friends and planning to play HS with them everybody moves to teams like this to play in such a competitive league.

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