Before & After Girls Elite League ("BAGEL")

[ghshockeyfan]

Well - with the only remaining "summer" tourneys coming up this weekend, and many considering these to actually be "Fall" events, the next AAA events on the schedule are the "BAGEL" games/teams...

My understanding is that there are 11 teams involved (Os is coordinating) all registered with USA/MN H:

19 - SSM Prep 19
19 - Jr Whitecaps
19 - Ice Cats
19 - Walser Blue
19 - Walser Red
19 - Schwan Blues
19 - St. Croix Saints
16 - SSM 16
16 - Ice Cats
16 - Os Extreme
16 - Walser White

I believe that there are three other teams registered with USA/MN H in MN too that aren't playing in the league:

19 - T-Breds
19 - CODP
16 - CODP

Would be nice to see some cross-over play with the 3 above and the 11 in the "BAGEL"...

Of course 19 - SSM Prep 19, 19 - T-Breds, & 16 - SSM 16 are year-round teams while the others only play the B&A season (before & after the MSHSL season).

Many of these teams are playing in various Fall tourneys as well including both year-round and just B&A teams.

I've heard of tourneys at (along with others... & I can't remember all the dates off the top of my head unfortunately...):

VT/NAHA Labor Day
Stony Brook ONT Sept???
Stevens Point ???
Cleveland OH ???
UND ???
St. Cloud ???
SSM Last weekend in Oct

Not sure how many of the 9 u19 teams will qualify via 10/14 rule for Regional/State & National spot competition and I believe only SSM 16 gets this right to represent MN at Nationals (No regional/state)...

Hope to see some of these teams play in the "A" or "After" MSHSL season portion too in another league leading up to Regional/State and to prep for NDP...

As I understand it, these teams can play WHAM teams (Sr Women's & "A1" level there is very good with many past/recent D1/Whitecaps players) and the year-round teams can play MSHSL teams & other "non-USA H sanctioned" teams a limited # of times/events (5 per year???)

ALSO - you woudl think with 9 U19 AA teams (& even 5 more U16) that we could have a Fall (sept-oct) & Spring (march) METRO area elite tourney /event or two maybe??? Hmm... It may even attract some non-mn teams + college coaches attention for the participants...

[HOCKEYFREAK]

The "BAGEL" league..Love the name...

This looks great, with teams such as these, east coast/Canada travel seem unnecessary.

Are there any MN Hockey hangups that prevent crossover play with the T-Breds/CODP?

[jumpstart]

Sounds like a good group of teams. Unfortunately, if a girl is not already connected with one of the AAA teams, she is left out.

I am very disappointed in how OS handled the fall league this year. In the past, OS was a place where girls could come to get ready to play for their high school teams. They didn't have to worry about already being on a team. I know my daughter really liked going last year and playing with different girls each week. She had fun, and the hockey was pretty good and fast.

I'm sure this was an easy way for OS to make money by just organizing already-existing teams for their fall league. Even a simple blurb on their web site about the change this year would have helped with their PR.

[ghshockeyfan]

I think that there are a number of issues that made the current situation what it is. Getting insurance through USA H by being fully registered MN H teams and the issues with kids not being able to be "double-rostered" with an Os fall league team + their AAA travel team was a HUGE issue - hence the need for a "BAGEL" that followed all the rules all the time roster & otherwise... Also, the quality of an independent league may have suffered due to conflicts with all the various AAA travel teams had some coordination not been done. Also, many HS players seem to have had three different levels of obligation under the old setup - 1) HS team events, 2) Elite league events, 3) AAA team events, and bringing at least two of these three into cohesion/alignment (2 & 3) probably strengthened the #1 HS team event participation too since there weren't three conflicting items. What would be better yet is to see the HS team leagues/events too coordinated as to not conflict with Elite League/AAA stuff, but that will be tough - and in the end the multi-sport athlete is already up against it with their fall sport schedule, etc. re: any non-"sport-in-season" events like these hockey items. I think that some individuals have been placed Elite League wise that contacted Os about this too? In the future hopefully we'll see teams of individuals put together if there is interest? Seems that especially at the 16 level there is room for more teams moving forward?

[ghshockeyfan]

The "BAGEL" league..Love the name...

This looks great, with teams such as these, east coast/Canada travel seem unnecessary.

Are there any MN Hockey hangups that prevent crossover play with the T-Breds/CODP?

Gotta love the name...

I believe that east coast/Canada travel is unnecessary for most players that go to NDP P3/NY - but many like to do it for the experience, chance that it may create additional visibility/college attention, plus allows for some tour of schools out east, etc. I think that kids that have the $/grades to go east to ivy's etc. to go D1 but don't get out to NDP P3/NY may benefit the most from east travel again & again? Most kids that don't go NDP P3/NY and don't have the $/grades to go ivy will struggle to go D1 but could be high level D3 players east or midwest. I think a lot of people don't realize that being on a team that travels doesn't mean you are D1 for certain... College coaches realize this.

No crossover issues with T-Breds/CODP - but I think that the issue may be that CODP is doing the CODP teams & Os oversaw the organization of the 11 others so maybe that's a sticking point? Not sure, but just a guess...

[trilogy]

I'm with you, jumpstart. Our daughter has no opportunity to be in the BAGEL league either. Her summer team is not one of those participating. And she trains in the highest OS group in the summer but nobody seems to have a spot for her, we asked. So even being connected to OS is not a guarantee you can play in the BAGEL league.

We too were looking forward to the fall OS leagues. Summer teams are so variable, some very strong, some very weak, so the summer tournament games can be quite lopsided. At least the OS fall/spring leagues get some competitive games going.

I guess next summer she'll have to try to get on a summer team that is also a BAGEL teams to make sure she can play in some good games. Her high school team plays in a lame spring and fall league compared to this, other leagues like showcase especially are very up and down.

[ghshockeyfan]

I know for a fact that some teams listed above are still considering individual players to fill teams. I'll send you some contact info. and I'll see what I can do to help - but can't guarantee anything.

[ghshockeyfan]

Sounds like this is under way. Some games were postponed due to registration issues...

Others have been played:

In the SSM U19 (and bubble players trying to make the U19) vs. MN Icecats U19 (Perushek) last night it was SSM 11 - MN Icecats 2. SSM outshot MN Icecats 39-25. Icecats had one nice goal and a defelection off a defenders skate. The earlier afternoon game vs the Schwan Blues U19 was cancelled as they are not yet registered with USA Hockey - maybe?.

CODP U19 has played the Thoroughbred U19 in a scrimmage losing 3-0 and in a game last week losing 8-1 (it was 1-1, 3-1, 8-1 through the periods - shots were 62-20 for the T-Breds).

I know Schwan Blues lost 2-1 to Jr Whitecaps on extra attacker goal at end for Blues but Blues were dominated by WC. Possibly 4 of top 5 Ms Goalie finalists played in this game in Jondal & Altmann for Blues and Haralson & Grogan for WC??? WC played Walser Blue in back-to-back games right after they played the Schwan Blues but didn't hear what the score was...

[puckfan11]

ghshockeyfan Posted: 17 Sep 2007 21:52 Post subject:
WC played Walser Blue in back-to-back games right after they played the Schwan Blues but didn't hear what the score was...

The WC's came out on top of Walser Blue 3 - 0

[Northland]

[quote="ghshockeyfan"]Sounds like this is under way. Some games were postponed due to registration issues...quote]

It seems some of the U16 teams could not be sanctioned by USA Hockey for this league because of their rosters.


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[ghshockeyfan]

Sounds like this is under way. Some games were postponed due to registration issues...

It seems some of the U16 teams could not be sanctioned by USA Hockey for this league because of their rosters.

The issue is that players that did NOT play at least HS JV or V last year are not eligible for registration through MN H for the B&A stuff. My understanding is that there were a number of U14AAA kids that played U14 last year that wanted to register for U16 B&A & thus were nopt eligible. The end result is that ALL U16 B&AGEL teams decide to NOT register with MN/USA H as teams. There are good & bad things about this but in the end the kids get to play hockey and that's really all that matters IMHO.

[hockeyheaven]

Sounds like this is under way. Some games were postponed due to registration issues...

It seems some of the U16 teams could not be sanctioned by USA Hockey for this league because of their rosters.

The issue is that players that did NOT play at least HS JV or V last year are not eligible for registration through MN H for the B&A stuff. My understanding is that there were a number of U14AAA kids that played U14 last year that wanted to register for U16 B&A & thus were nopt eligible. The end result is that ALL U16 B&AGEL teams decide to NOT register with MN/USA H as teams. There are good & bad things about this but in the end the kids get to play hockey and that's really all that matters IMHO.

What are the bad things?

[Northland]

It seems some of the U16 teams could not be sanctioned by USA Hockey for this league because of their rosters.

The issue is that players that did NOT play at least HS JV or V last year are not eligible for registration through MN H for the B&A stuff. My understanding is that there were a number of U14AAA kids that played U14 last year that wanted to register for U16 B&A & thus were nopt eligible. The end result is that ALL U16 B&AGEL teams decide to NOT register with MN/USA H as teams. There are good & bad things about this but in the end the kids get to play hockey and that's really all that matters IMHO.

What are the bad things?

Some tournaments are USA / MN Hockey sanctioned. That's all I can think of.


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[OntheEdge]

It seems some of the U16 teams could not be sanctioned by USA Hockey for this league because of their rosters.

The issue is that players that did NOT play at least HS JV or V last year are not eligible for registration through MN H for the B&A stuff. My understanding is that there were a number of U14AAA kids that played U14 last year that wanted to register for U16 B&A & thus were nopt eligible. The end result is that ALL U16 B&AGEL teams decide to NOT register with MN/USA H as teams. There are good & bad things about this but in the end the kids get to play hockey and that's really all that matters IMHO.

What are the bad things?

The "bad things" are:

1. Some very talented players aren't able to play in the Shattuck Tournament at the end of October. The MH and USA Hockey rule tries to prohibit girls from playing unless they played HS last year which is silly. They aren't trying to compete for any USA sanctioned championship and it penalizes girls that play in big programs that don't let girls tryout for HS until they are 9th graders (in effect disqualifying good players that aren't at least sophmores). It defies logic that a girl that may not be as talented but is in a program that takes 7th and 8th graders is able to play but a girl that comes from a program that won't allow 7th and 8th graders to play is ineligible until her sophmore year. I think a better rule is that USA/MH should permit 9th grade girls to get a letter from their home association stating that they aren't registered and won't be registered to play youth hockey to be eligible.

2. Registered teams cannot play unregistered teams therefore the girls in the unregistered league can't play as many teams. They are limited to playing 3 other teams multiple times. I've seen the unregistered teams and I believe that they can compete with most of the registered teams at U16.

[greybeard58]

This pre-season league affiliate agreement is set up like the boys. To be eligible to play in either you can not have either 14U or Bantam eligibility Left, if you do you must have a letter from the High school coach stating that the player actually did play at either the Varsity or JV level. The reason was to have a place for the High school player to play in pre-season.
If these teams want to play against either SSM or the Thoroughbreds whose teams are registered and will be playing to go to a national championship and they can only play registered teams to have those games count as a game played, they are not allowed to play a non-registered team by the rules of both USA Hockey and Mn Hockey, if they do tough sanctions would follow. Any pre-season league or tournament which is sanctioned by USA Hockey and Mn Hockey has to follow all rules and the teams that want to play in either have to follow all rules also.
It is not the fault of Mn Hockey that the high schools allow 7th and 8th graders to play, but the players from the larger associations do benefit by playing against tougher competition all of the way through.
If you would like the wording of the affiliate agreement changed have the exact wording change, an explanation and reasons detailing the change(do not use words like I think or I feel) and how this change would improve the pre-season and send to Mn Hockey to be added to the rules committee agenda, or to Elliott 70 who is a member on this bored and he knows where to send the proposal.
Two years from now if anything is changed there will be parents of high school players complaining about how the players with either 14U or bantam eligibility left taking the spots of now juniors and seniors.

[OntheEdge]

This pre-season league affiliate agreement is set up like the boys. To be eligible to play in either you can not have either 14U or Bantam eligibility Left, if you do you must have a letter from the High school coach stating that the player actually did play at either the Varsity or JV level. The reason was to have a place for the High school player to play in pre-season.

Unfortunately, the reason for the rule and the effect is imperfect and does penalize players from bigger associations. The U14 eligible girl that knows she will play JV or Varsity this year and thusly didn't register with her youth association is ineligible and therefore no place to play in the preseason (except for less competitive unregistered leagues). The rule will probably not change because the players affected don't have any incentive to go through the paperwork to change the rule because by the time a change takes place it will be too late.

[HockeyFan55]

1) The rule providing that players with U12 and U14 eligibility left have a letter (on school letterhead) stating that they have previously played hockey at a HS level has been there since the inception of B&A teams.

2) This group of teams wanted what the boys had, so follow the rules.

3) This group already has more than the boys, as they Elite I and II are not allowed to play after their season is complete, and are not allowed to vie for a National spot.

[SEMetro]

Lots of discussion about high schools that will not let 8th graders play varsity. Besides Edina, how many high school teams will not let 8th graders play? Any?

[jumpstart]

Lots of discussion about high schools that will not let 8th graders play varsity. Besides Edina, how many high school teams will not let 8th graders play? Any?

White Bear Lake to date has not allowed 8th graders to try out for JV or Varsity.

[spr air 210]

Any scores from the weekend? I know u19walser blue won 4- 2 over u19 ice cats.

Did white caps play shattuck?

[MNHockeyFan]

Lots of discussion about high schools that will not let 8th graders play varsity. Besides Edina, how many high school teams will not let 8th graders play? Any?

White Bear Lake to date has not allowed 8th graders to try out for JV or Varsity.

I believe Wayzata has had a similar policy.

[hockeya1a]

I would think any Association or school with large numbers of girls would not take 8th graders,
But the Schools with smaller numbers might have to.
Not that its right or wrong.

[SEMetro]

I would think any Association or school with large numbers of girls would not take 8th graders,
But the Schools with smaller numbers might have to.
Not that its right or wrong.

Unless my memory is bad, all the metro AA schools in the state tourney (Burnsville, Roseville, Stillwater, North Metro, BSM) did or will allow 8th graders to play. I suspect (but am not sure) that Mayo, GR and Bemidji did/will allow it as well.

[ghshockeyfan]

Some A schools specifically have no choice but to use sub-HS kids with the numbers year-to-year to maintain program viability. Eventually the hope is to get the girls more in line with boys as far as participation in grades 10-12 mostly and not so many 7-9 obviously... My A school team last year had a half-dozen 8th's and 8 7th graders on the roster due to need for players & strength of these players...

[Northland]

I don't think there is a HS coach out there who wouldn't take a younger player if it would benefit the progarm and the individual.


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