Lakeville Hockey

[Slapshotdude]

By the way Rocket, most in Lakeville realize that they will have less success in D6 then they now have in D8 and this does not discourage them in the least. You see it is not about comparing success but about giving opportunities to excel. Avoid unchallenging situations, as they will only waste you great talents. Nuf said.

[elliott70]

Elliott, I stand corrected that not all are paid. I too have volunteered for a high up Association level job. I was not paid and would not have accepted any. I also have refereed games in many sports. The pay is OK. The exercise is the main benefit. I have coached and they were the best times I ever had. Working directly with the kids is the most gratifying of all volunteer work. To me the kids are what it is all about. Coaches, 1 in 3 are fit for the job. Parents, you can have them. Directors a times loose sight of reality because they believe "I know what’s best for all". Well as far as Lakeville is concerned, they have outgrown their current district and need to move up and on.

For any association to move they need district approval from both districts. If that happens the MN Hockey board will ratify it (go along with the district D and board).
But sometimes what is good for an association is not the best thing for all.
The I and We thing again.

Yes, sometimes DDs can have the "I know best" attitiude. But the DD's I know best (almost all of them) spend a lot of time in rinks and with hockey people. And in this case it is not just the DD but the D-board.

And SSDude, thanks for the volunteer & ref work, it is appreciated.

[elliott70]

gopher one , maybe the board is looking out for the best interest of the district, if they allow one to go, whos next, still sounds like the back door route to me, cant believe if mn hockey allows this why anybody would want to stay on the district board if this is allowed , they have said NO, and now might be overridden, well if I was them i would tell Mn Hockey to come on down here and run this thing, because anything they do now is subject to an override by Mn Hockey, and it doenst mattter what it is, precedence has been established if this is allowed. Elliot what is the exact purpose of a district board, and why does Mn Hockey think they need to intervene

I typed up a repsonse but lost connectin before posting.
Short answer. District board runs the district.
MH intervenes in grievances and cross-district issues.
Lakeville was directed by the Maroon VP to bring it to the board.

Do we like to intervene, especially in these type of cases? No.
But someitmes the job requires more than sitting around eating lunch and talking about AHA and Edina in the section finals (if I could find somebody to talk with about that).

But I think bringing this to the Board at this time is best for MH.
Now we have the issue of redistricting/restucturing back in our face. And our lack of moving forward on it has put us in the position.
Hoepfully we do the right thing.

[TriedThat2]

Mark,
But without a plan, is it the best thing to do? This past meeting was Lakeville, who will present at the next meeting, what about spring? The door will be opened for anyone who believes they deserve to move.

[Slapshotdude]

People will always say, "Boy I wish we could play with or for so and so. The better competition would do us good" or you might hear "we always get our butts kicked playing in this district because we are so small. I wish we could play in so an so". Well with Lakeville it is a bit more complicated than that. I can see out my front door many D6 towns and so can many of us. We play most of them in all school-sponsored sports and also in most youth sports except hockey. In other words Lakeville plays mostly Metro teams in all sports except hockey where they play only a few metro teams. A trip down to Winona takes about 1 1/2 hours each way. On a weekday that means 3 hours of driving plus getting there early like the coaches ask plus the actual game time, you are talking almost 5 hours time to get one game in. I look out the door at Apple Valley and Burnsville and think of all the time and gas money I could have saved. Sure some towns live way out and do not complain about this but Lakeville is in the south metro. We moved hear to be close to the Cities. Not to drive to Winona, Rochester, La Crescent and River Falls. As far as the question "Who is next". You have 2 choices, never make any changes and say "no" to everybody about everything or you can be actively trying to make things better for those that ask for change. Every challenge in life is an opportunity to improve your situation. If you think it is just another hassle or waste of time then you should stay home and build a new bomb shelter.

[elliott70]

Mark,
But without a plan, is it the best thing to do? This past meeting was Lakeville, who will present at the next meeting, what about spring? The door will be opened for anyone who believes they deserve to move.

That's the idea, develop the plan by next spring.
Next meeting is in January, so there will be no other requests for this season.
By spring, we have the plan and go forward so no ohters come forward unless there is another basis for grievance.

Fingers crossed everyone.

[whockeyguy]

Elliot, im puzzled here, if both districts have said NO, and the districts are a functioning part of Mn Hockey, then why did the VP step in and bring this through the back door, seems to me if both said NO , it should be done, PERIOD no questions asked, MN Hockey has opened a can of worms by doing this and if voted yes then there is no reason for any district ,because if someone doesnt like it or thinks they should be elsewhere, there will be No reason not to stop it, YOU guys blew it by allowing them to meet ,,, we all know redistricting should be at the forefront ,but to use this is just an excuse of the actions of MN Hockey,,, a No vote is the Only way for Mn Hockey to save the intrigity of the organzation,, Have fun

[elliott70]

Elliot, im puzzled here, if both districts have said NO, and the districts are a functioning part of Mn Hockey, then why did the VP step in and bring this through the back door, seems to me if both said NO , it should be done, PERIOD no questions asked, MN Hockey has opened a can of worms by doing this and if voted yes then there is no reason for any district ,because if someone doesnt like it or thinks they should be elsewhere, there will be No reason not to stop it, YOU guys blew it by allowing them to meet ,,, we all know redistricting should be at the forefront ,but to use this is just an excuse of the actions of MN Hockey,,, a No vote is the Only way for Mn Hockey to save the intrigity of the organzation,, Have fun

I think 6 said we will not act until 8 has acted.
It came to teh board by proper channels.
The president, secretary and rules chair oversee items to ascertain if brought in the porper manner.

So no matter what I (personally) think, Lakeville did what was asked of them, had a good presentation, and deserve the boards' respect and attention.
I have not made up my mind, I lean a certain direction for sure, but I am waiting to hear final arguments.
Others, I believe, have decided how they will vote.

If proper I could go through thte list and be very, very accurate. But that would not be right.

So I listen (read) and wait for October 1.

(Besides waiting I am gathering information and ideas on how districts should be put together in the hopes that we can have that elusive formula that is applied every so often, and then that's the way it is, folks.

[whockeyguy]

Elliot your making my point, D-8 said NO, and D-6 wont act till D-8 gives the ok, which did not happen, Now without consent of each district, the Mn Hockey VP gets involved, WHY??????????? have i missed something,,if niether district gives then the ok it should be DEAD,,,

[really?]

Okay - "new" here - be gentle!...

As an LHA parent - it's pretty simple to me - and reading these posts, there seem to be a LOT of misconceptions out there!!...

What District 8 did to Lakeville is absurd. Our size - our talent level - our location - ALL would suggest that we belong with metro teams... Like the guy said above - nobody here could give much of a damn about the "competition" - We will NOT do as well in D6!!... It's about the travel! - and for what?.... beating Winona 14-2?....

It's like District 6 getting together and saying Burnsville should play with Hibbing and Grand Rapids!... or District 4 saying that Mankato is getting too good - they should play all their games in D8....

In my humble opinion - D8 members were voting in their own self interests - NOT Minnesota Hockey's!! What's an association to do???

I am FAR from a "hockey nut" - but my kid's love it... IF we have to play regular district games in D4 - I WILL move my family... (as I know others will)... MANY others will leave hockey... Good for basketball - I guess - but not MN hockey!!

Yah - Yah - Everyone revels in hating the "rich guys in the suburbs" - (has anyone noticed those teams change in time?!)... Richfield - not anymore... Bloomington - not anymore... Burnsville - not anymore... Lakeville?... We just went to two A teams at all levels... We're building... but we still beat SSP and Inver Grove and WSP and that pisses people off...

Lakeville started NOTHING here.... It was D8's move that precipitated the whole thing! No "Pandora's box" has been opened....

D8 over-stepped. D6 has been gracious and classy in holding a spot open for us. MN Hockey should step in and correct the wrong for the good of ALL.

that's all I got.
Flame away...



[quote="TriedThat2"]Mark,
But without a plan, is it the best thing to do? This past meeting was Lakeville, who will present at the next meeting, what about spring? The door will be opened for anyone who believes they deserve to move.[/quote]

[greybeard58]

The association has fielded 2 A teams at all levels correct? Is this the same at all other levels? Are these teams chosen as if there was one school or are they chosen by where the players attend school.
Lakeville is one association defined by one school district with 2 high schools and is a large association. Dating back a few years new schools have been formed and have had new associations formed also using their attendance area. If Lakeville had followed this format their numbers would be about 450-475 per association.
Maybe it is time for Mn Hockey to look at defining the boundaries of an association to read High school attendance area and not school district.
As to competition, there are a large number of teams that set up their scrimmages to increase their competition, I am fairly sure teams like Wayzata, Eden Prairie,White Bear, Centennial, Moorehead, Duluth East and a lot of other associations will set up scrimmages to create a tough schedule.

[TriedThat2]

Really?
You're not a hockey nut, but will MOVE if forced to play in D4? OK, I'll bite, what are you then?

[Slapshotdude]

I should help “Really” explain the situation. Whether there are written records or not Lakeville has been trying to change districts for 10+ years. This is the furthest they have gotten thus far in their quest. Most years it is put to rest quickly by those in charge at various levels of authority. Lakeville's biggest argument is travel (cost and time). Some may argue other points but travel has been the top concern. D6 has not said "No". Some in D6 have been very helpful in Lakeville’s quest. Of course they cannot say yes until D8 lets them out first. Now some explaining about the D4-D8 problems. D8 in their attempt to cut down on travel time for many of their teams (Lakeville is not the only one complaining about travel issues) has combined with D4 and created some new sections or combined districts. The effect on Lakeville was less travel but with a huge price. They now will play district games against pretty much all high school class A schools/teams. Most of the Class AA schools that were in D8 will now not play Lakeville in regular season play. They will not travel as much at the A and B levels but the competition level has just taken a huge dive. The C levels and Girls in Lakeville will still play D8 only games because D4 has no C level program and their girls already come up to play in D8 or D6. The D8 – D4 combination is really a bad band-aid decision as it really does not solve the problems and even creates new ones. To but it simply - it sux. RR has stated that it be a 1 year experiment. Now how about the rest of you guys out there, do you want your kids to be put in an experimental situation that you do not agree with and have to pay $1000+ to make it happen? I also think basketball sounds pretty good at this point. Ultimately this raises the questions, "Is D8 punishing Lakeville for asking for change" or "Does D8 really care for about Lakeville anymore". All things aside I think D8 has lost sight of what’s best for the kids. With this in mind Lakeville has gone up the ladder to MN Hockey and asked them to basically mediate the situation. A move to D6 for Lakeville is the only logical solution as it cuts down on travel time big time and puts them with other schools of the same size and talent level.

[Slapshotdude]

Lakeville has 2 separate high schools in one school district. Lakeville hockey separates into North and South as per the high school boundaries and the rules of MN Hockey. The Lakeville Hockey Association is just like Bloomington. One group of elected officials that govern two separate school boundaries. There is no issue here. It is a common practice and has been done successfully for many years in Bloomington.

[greybeard58]

I believe that there is Bloomington Jefferson and Bloomington Kennedy listed as associations not one board but 2 separate associations with each having an elected board. BAA used to be the rec program for Bloomington. There are a number of school districts with multiple high schools and also a separate association for each attendance area. St Paul, Minneapolis, Robbinsdale and School District 11 which has at least 5 high schools and 5 associations.

[Slapshotdude]

(Taken from their website)

Bloomington Amateur Hockey Association (BAHA) is a collaborative effort between Jefferson and Kennedy youth ice hockey associations to bring ice hockey instruction and game competition to all interested youth of Bloomington, Minnesota.

We meet monthly to plan around matters common to both associations, such as concession functions, fund raising efforts, tournaments, and other collaborative interests.

We welcome any interested boy or girl who would like to learn the game and belong to a strong Minnesota hockey tradition. We have levels at Mites through Junior Gold (boys and girls, ages 5-16). We support our two local high school ice hockey programs that have been recognized as leaders in Minnesota, "The State" of Hockey. Watch for Jefferson and Kennedy Associations' registration dates in August and September. Come learn to play Minnesota Ice Hockey!

[really?]

[quote="TriedThat2"]Really?
You're not a hockey nut, but will MOVE if forced to play in D4? OK, I'll bite, what are you then?[/quote]

Someone who doesn't want to spend his life in a car...

[really?]

Hey Dude...

Maybe I missed something (it happens) - but how have LHA's travel times been reduced?... My impression was Lakeville was the only assoc. to get increased travel out of "the deal"?...



[quote="Slapshotdude"]I should help “Really” explain the situation. Whether there are written records or not Lakeville has been trying to change districts for 10+ years. This is the furthest they have gotten thus far in their quest. Most years it is put to rest quickly by those in charge at various levels of authority. Lakeville's biggest argument is travel (cost and time). Some may argue other points but travel has been the top concern. D6 has not said "No". Some in D6 have been very helpful in Lakeville’s quest. Of course they cannot say yes until D8 lets them out first. Now some explaining about the D4-D8 problems. D8 in their attempt to cut down on travel time for many of their teams (Lakeville is not the only one complaining about travel issues) has combined with D4 and created some new sections or combined districts. The effect on Lakeville was less travel but with a huge price. They now will play district games against pretty much all high school class A schools/teams. Most of the Class AA schools that were in D8 will now not play Lakeville in regular season play. They will not travel as much at the A and B levels but the competition level has just taken a huge dive. The C levels and Girls in Lakeville will still play D8 only games because D4 has no C level program and their girls already come up to play in D8 or D6. The D8 – D4 combination is really a bad band-aid decision as it really does not solve the problems and even creates new ones. To but it simply - it sux. RR has stated that it be a 1 year experiment. Now how about the rest of you guys out there, do you want your kids to be put in an experimental situation that you do not agree with and have to pay $1000+ to make it happen? I also think basketball sounds pretty good at this point. Ultimately this raises the questions, "Is D8 punishing Lakeville for asking for change" or "Does D8 really care for about Lakeville anymore". All things aside I think D8 has lost sight of what’s best for the kids. With this in mind Lakeville has gone up the ladder to MN Hockey and asked them to basically mediate the situation. A move to D6 for Lakeville is the only logical solution as it cuts down on travel time big time and puts them with other schools of the same size and talent level.[/quote]

[tomASS]

Outsider looking in from D6
From what I have seen and heard, Lakeville has provided clarity to their position of why they would like to move to D6.

I have not seen anything from D8 clarifying their position of why they do not want Lakeville to leave. Does anyone know where I can find any position statements they might have from meeting minutes or letters from the board.

Declining the movement must have some basis from their position.

If not it appears to be based on personal biases.

Without clarity from both positions how can solutions be created and implemented.

I personally think the move to D6 is a common sense idea.

[Slapshotdude]

Really makes a good point. It is possible that Lakeville will on average travel more then they used to because some of the relatively close associations like Eagan were put into a different section. Tomass makes a great point also. Let's start hearing from the D8 perspective on why Lakeville should not leave. Let's get it on.

[SEMetro]

The effect on Lakeville was less travel but with a huge price. They now will play district games against pretty much all high school class A schools/teams. Most of the Class AA schools that were in D8 will now not play Lakeville in regular season play.

Read the earlier posts - some claim Lakeville was recently put into the North division against the AA teams (Eagan, RM, Woodbury, Hastings, CG, IGH/SSP combo, Sibley, etc.).

[Slapshotdude]

They were originally put in the Central division.

Lakeville
Farmington
New Prague
Northfield
Faribault
Montgomery
St Peter
Waseca
Mankato

If this has changed it is news to many of us and must have happened very recently.

[Slapshotdude]

I would like to say that all the efforts made by D8 so far have been appreciated but since this situation seems to be changing on a weekly basis my best advise is that the wrong approach is being taken. So far all their solutions have been met with very strong disagreements and to continue this approach to a solution may be the wrong direction. In other words “Thanks but no thanks” Nuff said.

[elliott70]

They were originally put in the Central division.

Lakeville
Farmington
New Prague
Northfield
Faribault
Montgomery
St Peter
Waseca
Mankato

If this has changed it is news to many of us and must have happened very recently.

Lakeville is in the north league with Woodbury etal (all D8 teams in the metro area).

[regdunlop77]

My Las Vegas money says Lakeville ends up in D6.

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease"