Hockey can bring out the best and worst in people.
Hope those that chose the Fire enjoy their long drives. See if you can find a portable desk so your kid can do his homework to and from the rink. Enjoy the extra travel. Also know that most associations don't want Fire teams at their tournaments. Therefore, there will be additional travel to find games and tournaments................ENJOY!
How did it all get so messed up
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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inthestands
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It's too bad to say this, but most decisions made in youth hockey are determined by "what's best for me".
From the outside looking in, this sounds like a classic example of that.
What does it really matter how the level of competition is at SSM or Lakeville? This is youth hockey, isn't it?
Take a look around at all the "top level" bantam A players over the past 10 years. How many were top players at the next level in HS, or even past that in college?
It seems a such a shame to waste the "fun times" of youth hockey trying to have the correct level of competition or coaching in lieu of continuing friendships and forging ahead in life lessons around home.
From the outside looking in, this sounds like a classic example of that.
What does it really matter how the level of competition is at SSM or Lakeville? This is youth hockey, isn't it?
Take a look around at all the "top level" bantam A players over the past 10 years. How many were top players at the next level in HS, or even past that in college?
It seems a such a shame to waste the "fun times" of youth hockey trying to have the correct level of competition or coaching in lieu of continuing friendships and forging ahead in life lessons around home.
considered
Have you guys ever considered that some people just want to try something different?
After playing termites-mites-squirts-pee wees and one bantam year (9 years) of association hockey, a small group of players has chosen to go out on a limb and try something else...perhaps 9 years of listening to and dealing with the same association and parents has driven them to seek another ride.
BREAKOUT, have you or any of your sons ever played Tier 1 hockey, specifically with the Fire? You seem to have more knowledge than anyone in any thread when it comes to lambasting that program. Is that because you were once one of them?
After playing termites-mites-squirts-pee wees and one bantam year (9 years) of association hockey, a small group of players has chosen to go out on a limb and try something else...perhaps 9 years of listening to and dealing with the same association and parents has driven them to seek another ride.
BREAKOUT, have you or any of your sons ever played Tier 1 hockey, specifically with the Fire? You seem to have more knowledge than anyone in any thread when it comes to lambasting that program. Is that because you were once one of them?
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spin-o-rama
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I think that is a fair hypothesis based on the record comparing.gerryodrowski wrote:...I just think a case can be made that the Tier 1 schedule played by SSM is not stronger than the bantam schedule they played.
I think community based hockey has great appeal - bonding with neighbors, great competition, less travel, live at home, and way less $$$. However, I understand people choosing another option (Fire, SSM, other AAA options). Maybe it is the best decision for their kid/family or maybe they are following a siren song and will decide it wasn't for them.
I hope associations are willing to take back returning "prodigal sons" from Minnesota Made mites, Fire, or maybe a fling with basketball. If we try to force people to stay and blacklist them when they leave it will only lead to more contention and will fuel the AAA route.
As for the 16-20 ranked kids who will now get to play Bantam A - I don't think we need to worry about them being over their heads. I doubt that in tryouts they are scared that they might make the A squad. Many of them are bubble kids and may have been on A squads before in their career. I'm sure they are all anxious for the opportunity to show that they can play at the A level. The team may not win as much but they can learn to work harder and new leaders can develop.
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Hobey Faker
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breakout,breakout wrote:Hockey can bring out the best and worst in people.
Hope those that chose the Fire enjoy their long drives. See if you can find a portable desk so your kid can do his homework to and from the rink. Enjoy the extra travel. Also know that most associations don't want Fire teams at their tournaments. Therefore, there will be additional travel to find games and tournaments................ENJOY!
yes the long drives gives us one on one time together, we are much closer now!
two nights during the school week allows much more time to complete homework, grades have improved!
we love traveling, we get to see cities that we would not otherwise get a chance to see.
local tournaments; not the reason the fire team was chosen, no big deal.
besides not all associations carry your grudge!
the pros outway the cons for us, but everyone has to make there own choices.
thanks for your concern; we are enjoying!
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FREDFLINTSTONE
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:05 am
Fire
It would appear hockey brings out the worst in you!!!!!!!!!breakout wrote:Hockey can bring out the best and worst in people.
Hope those that chose the Fire enjoy their long drives. See if you can find a portable desk so your kid can do his homework to and from the rink. Enjoy the extra travel. Also know that most associations don't want Fire teams at their tournaments. Therefore, there will be additional travel to find games and tournaments................ENJOY!
Good luck Fire Teams!See you at the B'ville tourney
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Lesbian masturbation
Last edited by waylon on Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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boardmember
- Posts: 96
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breakout wrote:Hockey can bring out the best and worst in people.
Hope those that chose the Fire enjoy their long drives. See if you can find a portable desk so your kid can do his homework to and from the rink. Enjoy the extra travel. Also know that most associations don't want Fire teams at their tournaments. Therefore, there will be additional travel to find games and tournaments................ENJOY!
Breakout, Why do always blast those that make choices for their kids that are outside of the Association. Here again you assume that these players are leaving to find "Greener" pastures for their "D1" hopefulls...
I'm hearing that of the kids who have left only 1 went to the Fire, others went to Lakeville North JV team( open enrolled). The "exit" from South Bantam A looks like a statement more about the South High School Program and less about the Association. I do not have all the facts but I believe my view is alot closer to the real reason, the parents are trying to get as far away from South HS as they can and soon to avoid the open enrollment penalties.
But, Hey...Lets bash the actions rather than determine the cause!
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keepyourheadup
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This thread was never started to rip the fire hockey program, it is clearly a legitamate option for those who choose it, leaving their association became a no brainer for some of these kids when they saw the heart of the team choose high school hockey. The top players in this group are gifted kids who may just be ready for the jump to varsity, the others are solid bantam A players, but there is no question that they all would still be in association hockey if the studs had stayed. I know my son is terribly dissapointed it all occured but having me blame the fire is just plain wrong. This has got more to do with an attitude or perspective that is growing in our hockey community, that you need to push,develop, and get exposure for players at younger and younger ages. Quote from Mike Eaves at Wisconcin...if a kid can play hockey in Minnesota and he's playing under a rock, we'll find him. It seems your questioned if you don't leave...my son has been bombarded by kids asking when he's leaving..the fire didn't create this situation, they've just taken advantage of it. By the way, come look at players 16-20 and then you can venture an opinion...simply put, if it were my child I'd decline the opportunity and play at the correct level.
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keepyourheadup
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Re: Fire
waylon wrote:It would appear hockey brings out the worst in you!!!!!!!!!breakout wrote:Hockey can bring out the best and worst in people.
Hope those that chose the Fire enjoy their long drives. See if you can find a portable desk so your kid can do his homework to and from the rink. Enjoy the extra travel. Also know that most associations don't want Fire teams at their tournaments. Therefore, there will be additional travel to find games and tournaments................ENJOY!
Good luck Fire Teams!See you at the B'ville tourney
That's 1
Hobey Faker wrote:breakout,breakout wrote:Hockey can bring out the best and worst in people.
Hope those that chose the Fire enjoy their long drives. See if you can find a portable desk so your kid can do his homework to and from the rink. Enjoy the extra travel. Also know that most associations don't want Fire teams at their tournaments. Therefore, there will be additional travel to find games and tournaments................ENJOY!
yes the long drives gives us one on one time together, we are much closer now!
two nights during the school week allows much more time to complete homework, grades have improved!
we love traveling, we get to see cities that we would not otherwise get a chance to see.
Great rationalization. Does it work for the other kids in your family? Or, is the focus on one kid?
If it works for you..............great.
local tournaments; not the reason the fire team was chosen, no big deal.
besides not all associations carry your grudge!
the pros outway the cons for us, but everyone has to make there own choices.
thanks for your concern; we are enjoying!
Re: considered
jancze5 wrote:Have you guys ever considered that some people just want to try something different?
After playing termites-mites-squirts-pee wees and one bantam year (9 years) of association hockey, a small group of players has chosen to go out on a limb and try something else...perhaps 9 years of listening to and dealing with the same association and parents has driven them to seek another ride.
BREAKOUT, have you or any of your sons ever played Tier 1 hockey, specifically with the Fire? You seem to have more knowledge than anyone in any thread when it comes to lambasting that program. Is that because you were once one of them?
Paying 35K a year for a Shattuck experience or driving to Wisconsin for practice doesn't interest me. Maybe I am in the minority..........oops, I guess I am within the majority.
Personally, I can't believe an association like Lakeville has a bad hockey experience and bad parents. Isn't it amazing that a kid like Jordan Schroeder can come out of that association, play for NTDP and has a scholarship waiting for him at the U. He may even be a first round draft pick when he becomes draft eligible. It's got to be hell in Lakeville.
Just like all of the janczes before you (1 thru 4) you have hockey development figured out. Move over Jack Blatherwick, jancze5 is taking your spot.
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keepyourheadup
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- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:07 pm
Funny the Shroeder name came up, quite possibly the most gifted kid I've ever watched at the youth level,(Witnessed him stick handle around my sons entire team skating backwards) unfortunately it has its down side. We have far to many PARENTS who seem to think if they follow the same track they can be just like him. Players like this come along once in 25 years in most associations, my god he was housley like. I call it the Shroeder hang over, players like Jordan are born, not developed by overzealous parents. It just plays back into previous posts I've made concerning the need to have kids noticed at a young age. Some kids move on, most don't, I just hope in the end parents will be able to look back and feel they did the right thing.
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just the facts
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:59 pm
Just the facts
keep your head up
12 Bantam age players left Lakeville;
3 - STA HS
1 - LN HS
3 - SSM Midget program
5 - Fire
12 Bantam age players left Lakeville;
3 - STA HS
1 - LN HS
3 - SSM Midget program
5 - Fire
Breakout,
You're fairly clueless. Did you even read what I wrote and my question or are you that much of a tool that can't even fathom that you're opinion is valued, but some of us wonder where you're coming from.
You are the epitome of the put downs you place on others.
Yet, you try to slant that BS onto me like I'm the one slandering anything like you constantly do. Get a grip and see the light instead of being so defensive.
I don't claim to have any insight on anything at all, I usually ask questions to stir debate and conversation. I want to hear the other side of the fence. If you were once a Fire parent and a Shattuck parent and had a bad experience, tell us about it. If you werent, you aren't qualified to speak about either of them.
You're fairly clueless. Did you even read what I wrote and my question or are you that much of a tool that can't even fathom that you're opinion is valued, but some of us wonder where you're coming from.
You are the epitome of the put downs you place on others.
Yet, you try to slant that BS onto me like I'm the one slandering anything like you constantly do. Get a grip and see the light instead of being so defensive.
I don't claim to have any insight on anything at all, I usually ask questions to stir debate and conversation. I want to hear the other side of the fence. If you were once a Fire parent and a Shattuck parent and had a bad experience, tell us about it. If you werent, you aren't qualified to speak about either of them.
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keepyourheadup
- Posts: 1102
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:07 pm
the shattuck departures were last year and all 3 came from the north side , the lakeville transfer from south to north was not hockey but baseball related. Kid never played on an A team (although he posesses great potential) but is all world in baseball.....at which lakeville south is anemic at best. Thems the facts..unless your considering the one that physically moved, which I feel is a different situation.
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PointBlank
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:19 pm
Is it possible that a kid who is a good hockey player could make a choice to go to a school knowing he may not be "top dog" at that school, and may not even make that team....Is it ok for kids to choose class sizes of 20 kids, high levels of discipline, and academic rigor. Some kids realize that hockey is not their future. Personally, I give kids a lot of credit if they take a risk like that, and realize that hockey is a passion, not an income.
I have a question for the Lakeville families and it is NOT meant as a potshot. I think that Lakeville is one of the most consistent youth programs in Minnesota and I always look forward to when we play them.
What is it that the families are running from?
I think that many associations in the state would love to have the sheer numbers and talent level that exists in Lakeville. The facilities are very good as well. I have only seen 1 or 2 Nutcase Lakeville coaches over the last 12 years and most of their coaches seem to understand the game and treat their players with respect. What am I not seeing from where I live?
What is it that the families are running from?
I think that many associations in the state would love to have the sheer numbers and talent level that exists in Lakeville. The facilities are very good as well. I have only seen 1 or 2 Nutcase Lakeville coaches over the last 12 years and most of their coaches seem to understand the game and treat their players with respect. What am I not seeing from where I live?
jancze5 wrote:Breakout,
You're fairly clueless. Did you even read what I wrote and my question or are you that much of a tool that can't even fathom that you're opinion is valued, but some of us wonder where you're coming from.
You are the epitome of the put downs you place on others.
Yet, you try to slant that BS onto me like I'm the one slandering anything like you constantly do. Get a grip and see the light instead of being so defensive.
I don't claim to have any insight on anything at all, I usually ask questions to stir debate and conversation. I want to hear the other side of the fence. If you were once a Fire parent and a Shattuck parent and had a bad experience, tell us about it. If you werent, you aren't qualified to speak about either of them.
"keepyourheadup" is the one with the "facts" here - Unfortunately I read him as very "conflicted". --
The whole discussion re. whether or not teams like the Fire are good for MN hockey and what parents are thinking when they steer their kids in whatever directions is all very interesting. Clearly there are different sets of values in play and it is worth talking about and exploring. I think it's entirely fair to look at another "hockey dad" and say: "I'm sorry buddy, I think you've flipped your lid" and that's gonna wear on "friendships"... so be it...
I also think it is crazy for ANYone to sit back and claim to have all the answers for everyone. Ya just don't know... I don't care how many years you've been involved with youth hockey. I've heard too many screwed up "predictions" that didn't come close.
Play the hand you're dealt. Stay true to your own values and beliefs. "Teach your children well"...
There were some nice people in the group that left. Good luck to them. But I couldn't care less that they're gone from Lakeville hockey. Not in a "vindictive" way - I just don't care. "Winning" and having my kid play with "the studs" is not what it's all about for me or my kids.
We have what we have - and I have to say that the contention that "16-20" shouldn't be playing A hockey is just WAY "out there"... and I just don't even see the point in "evaluating" them on this BBS or, in that way, anywhere. It's like the 4th or 5th "tangent" in this thread! What's it all about?!
How to help your kid understand?
Why people leave?
Tier 1 hockey's impact on associations?
your kid's win-loss record?
or who the "best" are?...
who's gonna care???
google your High School's win loss record - It ain't there!!!
"16-20" at Lakeville South could play "A" hockey in at least 80% of the associations in this state. We are a large and "affluent" association going through growing pains after a North/South split... We are exactly where we should be. And I think the comment re. "things are no better at Lakeville North" is just as out of line.... We may very well struggle with the better teams this year (at Bantams) but we are in line with or better than the vast majority. Six or eight or ten players do not define our association or its worth. Not 1-8 and not 16-22 and for that matter, not 74-80...
I've heard "keepyourheadup"s kid mentioned in groups of the top 4 or 5 at his age group in the state. Good for him. He's "under a rock" now - but there's no need to worry - he'll be found if he's worthy - right?. The fact is he is "suffering" no more or less than "16-22" or anyone else. They are ALL dealing with the SAME thing. It's a TEAM sport!!
Let those guys go. The kids we have left deserve your support and to be built up - not torn down. The coaches are working hard trying to build a "team" - Our kids key off us! Everyone knows that. How can we not support all of their efforts?!
Move on already!
Those that want to "flame the fire" should start another thread...
The whole discussion re. whether or not teams like the Fire are good for MN hockey and what parents are thinking when they steer their kids in whatever directions is all very interesting. Clearly there are different sets of values in play and it is worth talking about and exploring. I think it's entirely fair to look at another "hockey dad" and say: "I'm sorry buddy, I think you've flipped your lid" and that's gonna wear on "friendships"... so be it...
I also think it is crazy for ANYone to sit back and claim to have all the answers for everyone. Ya just don't know... I don't care how many years you've been involved with youth hockey. I've heard too many screwed up "predictions" that didn't come close.
Play the hand you're dealt. Stay true to your own values and beliefs. "Teach your children well"...
There were some nice people in the group that left. Good luck to them. But I couldn't care less that they're gone from Lakeville hockey. Not in a "vindictive" way - I just don't care. "Winning" and having my kid play with "the studs" is not what it's all about for me or my kids.
We have what we have - and I have to say that the contention that "16-20" shouldn't be playing A hockey is just WAY "out there"... and I just don't even see the point in "evaluating" them on this BBS or, in that way, anywhere. It's like the 4th or 5th "tangent" in this thread! What's it all about?!
How to help your kid understand?
Why people leave?
Tier 1 hockey's impact on associations?
your kid's win-loss record?
or who the "best" are?...
who's gonna care???
google your High School's win loss record - It ain't there!!!
"16-20" at Lakeville South could play "A" hockey in at least 80% of the associations in this state. We are a large and "affluent" association going through growing pains after a North/South split... We are exactly where we should be. And I think the comment re. "things are no better at Lakeville North" is just as out of line.... We may very well struggle with the better teams this year (at Bantams) but we are in line with or better than the vast majority. Six or eight or ten players do not define our association or its worth. Not 1-8 and not 16-22 and for that matter, not 74-80...
I've heard "keepyourheadup"s kid mentioned in groups of the top 4 or 5 at his age group in the state. Good for him. He's "under a rock" now - but there's no need to worry - he'll be found if he's worthy - right?. The fact is he is "suffering" no more or less than "16-22" or anyone else. They are ALL dealing with the SAME thing. It's a TEAM sport!!
Let those guys go. The kids we have left deserve your support and to be built up - not torn down. The coaches are working hard trying to build a "team" - Our kids key off us! Everyone knows that. How can we not support all of their efforts?!
Move on already!
Those that want to "flame the fire" should start another thread...
[quote="Rocket78"]I have a question for the Lakeville families and it is NOT meant as a potshot. I think that Lakeville is one of the most consistent youth programs in Minnesota and I always look forward to when we play them.
What is it that the families are running from?
I think that many associations in the state would love to have the sheer numbers and talent level that exists in Lakeville. The facilities are very good as well. I have only seen 1 or 2 Nutcase Lakeville coaches over the last 12 years and most of their coaches seem to understand the game and treat their players with respect. What am I not seeing from where I live?[/quote]
You're not missing anything. What you see is what you've got. People watched Crandall, people watched Schraeder and thought: "Oh gee, that could be my kid!"... and a close knit group bolted, for better or for worse - (and that aint ALL bad...)...
Whatever.... The association and the HS program seem pretty solid to those that I talk with... There are only a very "select" few who seem disappointed with anything... and their numbers are dwindling...
Watch the pendulum swing back now...
What is it that the families are running from?
I think that many associations in the state would love to have the sheer numbers and talent level that exists in Lakeville. The facilities are very good as well. I have only seen 1 or 2 Nutcase Lakeville coaches over the last 12 years and most of their coaches seem to understand the game and treat their players with respect. What am I not seeing from where I live?[/quote]
You're not missing anything. What you see is what you've got. People watched Crandall, people watched Schraeder and thought: "Oh gee, that could be my kid!"... and a close knit group bolted, for better or for worse - (and that aint ALL bad...)...
Whatever.... The association and the HS program seem pretty solid to those that I talk with... There are only a very "select" few who seem disappointed with anything... and their numbers are dwindling...
Watch the pendulum swing back now...
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keepyourheadup
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