How did it all get so messed up

[breakout]

I don't hide behind any BS name on here.

Please tell me your parents didn't name you jancze5. Teachers must have had a heck of a time pronouncing that.

[elliott70]

Elliott-
I do not mean this to be an attack on you personally. I respect your willingness to get on this board and ask for opinions and solutions from the masses.
That being said I do not believe that all districts are run in the same manor as yours appears to be. Maybe that is why there always seems to be the number of great players that come out of the north in relation to the overall numbers.
In this particular district I know of a number of people who have asked the DD to look into a situation and the response has always been " I don't get involved in association buisness". Then if it is brought beyond the DD up the chain the response has been " Sorry we allow the districts to set there own rules and policys". Where is the accountability up the ladder?

I now longer have children playing in the youth hockey system but that was the one thing that always burned me. It seemed that the DD could do or say whatever he wanted and there was no accountability.

Anyway, just my two cents on why programs like the Fire and the AAA programs in the summer seem to be getting more and more popular.

I respect the fact that not all DD's operate the same and your history with that.

If there are MN Hockey members having trouble resolving a problem in normal channels, feel free to contact me (it has been done before).

Boy my fingers are not working well this PM. Just about every word was typed 'rong'.

[elliott70]

Or is it, why is there a need for an "elite bantam" underground* schedule? Is it because 90% of the teams in the state stink and don't provide competition for 70% of the schedule??

* emphasis provided by elliott70

It is not underground.
I have known of several instances over the years of these higher level, competitive, rivalries being established by coaches that are familiar with each other.


And just as an aside, is Jancze your first or last name?
Don't answer.

[just the facts]

I think we all need to go back to the original question, "How did it get so bad?"

1) How about we look at player development? Go to a practice and see what they do in practice. Ask yourself some questions:
a) Do the drills have a lot of tempo?
b) Are drills appropriate to the level you are watching?
c) Does the coach seem to be engaged?
d) Does the coach skate with the kids?
e) Does the coach work with each kid individually?
f) Do the kids seem to be engaged?
g) Does it look like practice is fun?
h) Is the goalie getting work from a coach?
I) After practice look at their faces are they excited?

If you answered no to these questions than wouldn’t that be a reason to leave?

[greybeard58]

This is a bit off subject.
All DD's are elected by the associations and represent the associations at the Mn Hockey meetings and by the Mn Hockey BY-Laws are responsible for all with in the District. Complaints brought to the DD should follow the procedure outlined in the Mn Handbook Article 6.
In the case of the Fire in at least 3 eastern Districts most associations have complained to their DD, and a few have responded on behalf of their Associations. The one statement was clarified to state to make sure all out of state of Minnesota teams are "properly registered and all registration rules are followed". The associations were also informed to ask when entering an invitational tournament if there were any out state if all were properly registered.There have been a time in the past where rosters were refused to be shown. Just a couple of goodies there is an 80-20 provision on the roster and also in a number of cases travel permits must be acquired for teams traveling from one USA Hockey District to another, if you want to read all the USA Hockey annual guide is on their web site ,look under the registration section.
I would be very surprised if you would find 2 of the 12 Districts that run the same way,what works in one might work for the other. Associations also are run a little different than the next. If there are questions on policies or if you want to get involved at the local, District levels contact the orginazation in person. I would believe good volunteers are needed.

[keepyourheadup]

I figured I should think a little bit while I was "out there" and maybe respond to all the points that Really? has determined I'm conflicted about. I haven't chosen to consult a mental health professional beforehand so forgive me if I again find myself way "out there"

Am I conflicted? About what happened to a youth hocket team yes, thats why I started the thread.

The tangents, isn't it possible that its a combination of all the things that we've discussed that led to whats happened.

My questions are directed at a single team not at an association or it"s worth.

While your comments about my son are flattering they are inacurate. How was it that you placed him under the rock? Do you know something I don't about my son? It's the expectations of others that concern me when I hear a statement like that.

Did I claim that his situation was worse than the other players involved?

As for the 16 thru whatever debate..I've evaluted playes for numerous associations over a period of 25 years. Each child deserves my respect whether it was then or now. Respecting a player and fairly judging his ability to play a game are two completely different things. This goes beyond competing..I'm concerned with their safety. I realize you have little or no experience with bantam A hockey, but this isn't Kansas anymore toto. Like I said we'll see how it goes.

Should we move on, it appears we have no choice but to do so.

[elliott70]

I think we all need to go back to the original question, "How did it get so bad?"

1) How about we look at player development? Go to a practice and see what they do in practice. Ask yourself some questions:
a) Do the drills have a lot of tempo?
b) Are drills appropriate to the level you are watching?
c) Does the coach seem to be engaged?
d) Does the coach skate with the kids?
e) Does the coach work with each kid individually?
f) Do the kids seem to be engaged?
g) Does it look like practice is fun?
h) Is the goalie getting work from a coach?
I) After practice look at their faces are they excited?

If you answered no to these questions than wouldn’t that be a reason to leave?

Good response.

But most of the time it comes down to a 13 year old kid that gets some offer. Something that he(she) perceives as something 'more special' then what he is currently doing. If the kid is an extrovert (as most hockey kids are, at least on the ice), his first reaction is to jump at it. Parents of these kids (who are good hockey players) think, we can afford the money, we can afford the time, say why not?
I am sure some (maybe all) think about their home town and the other kids/coaches on the team they are leaving, but a decision is made. All most all are going to take the best from the situation and praise the program (after all, it was their decision) even if they do not return.

And as I have said, as long as everyone is playing by the rules, we all should be happy. Opportunities for others will grow from change.


Still having finger problems with the keyboard.

[breakout]

furthermore...

There is no right or wrong here when it comes to hockey. You can argue both sides of the fence for/against assocation or AAA. But you will rarely get a fair comparison because they are 2 different evils.

Just be willing to ante up while speaking your humble opinion.

Hey jancze, solid post on the college forum............thought you might be interested in.

Seems this kid named Matt Niskenan grew up in dat small town of Virginia, MN.........don't ya know. Yaaa, no good competition up d'r in dat dreadful association. For some reason, little Matt the multi sport athlete is now playing for the Dallas Stars............imagine dat! Yaaaaa, you could have knocked me over with a feather too.

Ya got to feel bad for the lad because he was forced to play in dat lousy association hockey. If only he had played for da Fire.

[jancze5]

Breakout,

1- kids from everywhere in the country, "even outside of Minnesota" are drafted...can YOU of all people imagine that? I know a kid from Fairfax, Virginia that was drafted this year, yes, that Virginia...how did that happen?

2- you're still hiding and haven't ante'd up, imagine that?

3- when you're ready to tell us your Mite D and Squirt b player experiences, let us know..we're all anxious to hear your actual first hand experience.

[breakout]

Breakout,

when you're ready to tell us your Mite D experience

Mite D................please inform me of what association has Mite D. Don't start makin up things that may hurt your credibility.

[spin-o-rama]

I thought D10 did away with the D level, but Centennial still has it on their website.

Be careful of calling others ignorant. It might reveal something about you.

[hockeymomof3]

I thought D10 did away with the D level, but Centennial still has it on their website.

Yes, Centennial does still have a D team and after a D10 meeting in August in which it was discussed, they decided to keep that level. If I remember correctly, when they voted on it, there were only 2 associations against the D level. Hence, the decision to keep it around for the 07-08 year.

[breakout]

I thought D10 did away with the D level, but Centennial still has it on their website.

Be careful of calling others ignorant. It might reveal something about you.

I went on Centennials website.............you are correct. My mistake.

My apology for that J5.

[really?]

""""keepyourheadup"]I figured I should think a little bit while I was "out there" and maybe respond to all the points that Really? has determined I'm conflicted about. I haven't chosen to consult a mental health professional beforehand so forgive me if I again find myself way "out there""""

I didn't bring up any "mental health issues". As far as "way out there" goes - Yes, my opinion of your opinion... regarding 16-20 is that you're severely overstating the situation. (see below or previous post).

""""Am I conflicted? About what happened to a youth hocket team yes, thats why I started the thread.""""

So we agree on that. It's all I was saying.

""""The tangents, isn't it possible that its a combination of all the things that we've discussed that led to whats happened"""".

As I've said, I don't know or care... The tangents seemed to me to come from other posters - I wasn't slamming you for them. My opinion is that a lot of it got pretty far away from your original post's concerns.

""""My questions are directed at a single team not at an association or it"s worth.""""

I agree - and my posts were not solely directed at you - Others were directing some of their questions/comments at "Lakeville hockey" - Some of my comments were for their consideration.

"""""While your comments about my son are flattering they are inacurate. How was it that you placed him under the rock? Do you know something I don't about my son? It's the expectations of others that concern me when I hear a statement like that."""""

What is "inaccurate"?.... I HAVE heard his name grouped together with 3 and 4 other players as the tops in the state at his age group... "Under a rock" is taken from your own quote from the D1 coach... - I am not trying to imply that "showcasing" your kid is necessarily a concern of yours - (but it's a possibility - so I brought it up) - I was simply alluding to the fact that the 5 or 6 that left (potentially to showcase their kids in a different venue) left your kid virtually alone at this point, as an "elite" player - and on a team that admittedly will not overly impress the average onlookers... - "under a rock" as it were...
I don't know what you mean by "others expectations" for your kid. He's a great player. I imagine we'll all see more of the same. No one is expecting your kid to "carry" this team. Most of us just want to watch our own kids play.

""""Did I claim that his situation was worse than the other players involved?""""

No you didn't. You just seem to be the most "troubled" by it all, and in trying to respond to your posts I try to touch on any possibilities. I do that because I'm still not clear on what is so "terrible" about any of what has happened...? If we're clear and honest with ourselves about what we want our kids to get out of the entire "hockey experience" then I think all the "answers" are easy. And regardless of how you answer those questions for yourself - many would say you have it easier than most - because your kid will have options that others don't... right?

""""As for the 16 thru whatever debate..I've evaluted playes for numerous associations over a period of 25 years. Each child deserves my respect whether it was then or now. Respecting a player and fairly judging his ability to play a game are two completely different things. This goes beyond competing..I'm concerned with their safety. I realize you have little or no experience with bantam A hockey, but this isn't Kansas anymore toto. Like I said we'll see how it goes.""""

I've always hated Kansas and I'm not a dog... Yes - we'll see how it goes. That's fair (as it is for me to have my own opinion). Bantam hockey by its nature will injure a lot of kids state-wide and both good and not so good players... I'm not saying it won't happen. But I still don't understand on what your opinion about 16-20 is based. I don't have to spend 25 years "evaluating players" to have noticed that D8 has wide disparities in its association's "talent levels". Lakeville has been pretty good for years and we know which teams generally give us competition and which we generally handle easily. Even when we've played teams who we destroy, I haven't heard about masses of kids being taken out on stretchers... ??? I believe there are teams we will play in D8 this year who would LOVE to have our 16-20.

""""Should we move on, it appears we have no choice but to do so.""""

That has been my contention from the beginning. Personally, I still believe that ALL of this could add up to the best "development" year (mentally, physically, emotionally) that any of these players have ever had. I'm looking forward to it... and Go Fire! (though I don't really care.... [/b]

[jancze5]

Breakout..

WIth anticipation I came on here this morning hoping that you have finally jumped on the oppurtunity to state your actual affiliations, to the dissapointment of many, you have yet to man-up and profess.

What's up?

I see you continued to make smart one liners, is that all you're good for?

[gerryodrowski]

jancze5 - you are getting really obnoxious....take it offline.

[T_dub_Dad]

I also have a boy playing on this year's FIRE Major Bantam team.

He had the opportunity to play for his varsity team this year. I called (for the first time ever) the head varsity coach and asked for his opinion, he said that playing 60-65 games at that level would help my son development more than playing a few shifts on the 2nd or 3rd line for 20 varsity games. Additionally he mentioned that he liked the practice to game ratio that the FIRE has...He will practice 30 minutes from our home...most of our practices are at Ridder or Mariucci. Our practices are only on Tuesday and Thursday during the school week so it actually allows him the opportunity to continue to have success in the classroom. Also it allows him to have a strong social life with his grade school buddies...

Don't be fooled; we all want our children to develop their skills to the highest level. It wouldn't matter if my son wanted to the best scientist or best chess player or for gods sake the best hockey player he could be, I would try to help he acheive that level...wouldn't we all do that for our children. My daughter is a dancer...she has been asked to be on different competition lines...and I have encouraged her to do so...what is so different?

Just a note regarding playing the FIRE...I have helped schedule some of the games against MN Bantam A's...NOT one coach or manager has said no to me yet. Furthermore, I have had two D2 coaches say that it is ridiculous that their DD will not even allow discussion of this item in the District meeting....sounds like politics, doesn't it?

One last thing...if the FIRE isn't already on your team's schedule, you should encourage your Bantam A coach or manager to schedule your team to play against this group of young men. From top to bottom (not sure there is one) it is a group of super young men and unbelievable coaching staff. Why not check them out?

FIRE and Shattuck play a 3 game series next weekend.

www.firehockeyclub.com

Lastly, I realize that this thread was not intended to be a FIRE thread, but you know what, I support the FIRE and all that Mr. Olson has done to make the organization a success!

* Have you seen the '94 team....WOW! Not bad either...

[elliott70]

Breakout..

WIth anticipation I came on here this morning hoping that you have finally jumped on the oppurtunity to state your actual affiliations, to the dissapointment of many, you have yet to man-up and profess.

What's up?

I see you continued to make smart one liners, is that all you're good for?

This forum is designed for anonymous input.
Some of us choose to be known.

You are out of line by trying to get breakout to disclose his real identity.
And as he asked you, is Jancze your name?
(Don't answer)

[Can't Never Tried]

This forum is designed for anonymous input.
Some of us choose to be known.

You are out of line by trying to get breakout to disclose his real identity.
And as he asked you, is Jancze your name?
(Don't answer)

That's right Stu you tell him

[elliott70]

This forum is designed for anonymous input.
Some of us choose to be known.

You are out of line by trying to get breakout to disclose his real identity.
And as he asked you, is Jancze your name?
(Don't answer)

That's right Stu you tell him

I coached a Stu once.

I ate stew (more than once).

I have stewed over things a time or two.

But MARK my words, I am not named Stu.

[Can't Never Tried]

This forum is designed for anonymous input.
Some of us choose to be known.

You are out of line by trying to get breakout to disclose his real identity.
And as he asked you, is Jancze your name?
(Don't answer)

That's right Stu you tell him

I coached a Stu once.

I ate stew (more than once).

I have stewed over things a time or two.

But MARK my words, I am not named Stu.

I think you got the jist of the sarcasam....and I agree with your post...But how do we really know your Mark???

[elliott70]

That's right Stu you tell him

I coached a Stu once.

I ate stew (more than once).

I have stewed over things a time or two.

But MARK my words, I am not named Stu.

I think you got the jist of the sarcasam....and I agree with your post...But how do we really know your Mark???

Ask me a question only I could answer?????

[Can't Never Tried]

I coached a Stu once.

I ate stew (more than once).

I have stewed over things a time or two.

But MARK my words, I am not named Stu.

I think you got the jist of the sarcasam....and I agree with your post...But how do we really know your Mark???

Ask me a question only I could answer?????

There all to hard
Ok I believe you

[gerryodrowski]

Dear loverofallthingsfire_notjusthky: Great post! Good luck to your son this year. Sounds to me like the varsity coach gave you good advice even though he'd probably put a better team on the ice with your son there. Might unselfish of him! Which Minnesota Bantam A teams are on the docket so far? I'll be sure to encourage my local Bantam A coach to schedule the Fire if he hasn't already. No, I haven't seen the '94 edition of the Fire. They must really be something. Finally, thanks for the link to the Fire website...it's in my favorites now.

p.s. I just can't understand why people are so against the Fire.

[breakout]

Breakout..

WIth anticipation I came on here this morning hoping that you have finally jumped on the oppurtunity to state your actual affiliations, to the dissapointment of many, you have yet to man-up and profess

Did you guys have a meeting without me?

I blame Neutron, CNT, Elliott and TomAss for not letting me know. Was it breakfast at Perkins? I love their ham and cheese omelets. Now I am hungry and upset